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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jul 22, 2015 8:25:22 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 8:42:00 GMT -5
Well that does it then, no JW's in my house, and particularly, no cups of tea with them. They can't be trusted.
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hberry
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Post by hberry on Jul 22, 2015 9:51:59 GMT -5
Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase 'tea party'! Reminds me of the play "arsenic and old lace."
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 22, 2015 11:29:12 GMT -5
Like I just posted on the Doug Parker thread - this has happened in a figurative sense with the friends and workers fellowship. Activist exes writing extreme, hatefull, and biased accounts that have poisoned people not even associated with the fellowship, let alone those in. In a sense these activist exes are like Saul standing by and consenting to the death of Stephen when others use what they have published to say things like this in a comment on a youtube video;
Where did they get the idea the fellowship is a "Satan Sect" and "lies of Satan"?? From reading activist exes publications. Activist exes publishing extreme and biased misrepresentations own that.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 22, 2015 11:31:47 GMT -5
Same thing happened here, note the references, they got their nasty hateful comments from reading activist exes publications; SarahRandle.pdf (274.09 KB) I wonder how many activist exes think about unintended consequences like this before they published the biased misrepresentations that have had an obviously poisonous effect on people who know nothing at all about the friends and workers??
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 22, 2015 11:51:45 GMT -5
Some activist exe sites are so full of obviously biased and hateful misrepresentation people outside the fellowship recognize it for what it is and don't drink the poison. This is a post on the old TLT board. A co-worker in my office pointed me here...he had found the site [TheLyingTruth] after a comment I made during a brief discussion with him about my beliefs. He mentioned that as he read, he wondered what in the world I'd gotten myself into. But the more he read, and reflected on what he knew of me, the less he could take the writings seriously. There's an obvious mismatch between what is said about the Truth and what he knows from observing my life.
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Post by Mary on Jul 22, 2015 13:52:36 GMT -5
Activist exes, apostates!! Guess there's worse names. Keep them coming. Talk about generalized statements, bitter and the likes. Your no better than those you accuse.
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Post by Mary on Jul 22, 2015 13:56:41 GMT -5
I'm not talking about sides, I'm talking about name calling when he gets upset when others name call but does it himself.
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Post by Mary on Jul 22, 2015 14:03:13 GMT -5
I will point it out so what's your point? Suggesting I shouldn't. !!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 22, 2015 14:34:03 GMT -5
Same thing happened here, note the references, they got their nasty hateful comments from reading activist exes publications; I wonder how many activist exes think about unintended consequences like this before they published the biased misrepresentations that have had an obviously poisonous effect on people who know nothing at all about the friends and workers?? Jesse, would you post the misrepresentations that have some exe's on this TMB board (not the names of people, just the posts) that you consider "biased misrepresentations that have had an obviously poisonous effect on people who know nothing at all about the friends and workers?"
PS: You give no reference as to who wrote or where the above quote can be found.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 22, 2015 14:43:11 GMT -5
Well that does it then, no JW's in my house, and particularly, no cups of tea with them. They can't be trusted. I think you mean ex-JWs, don't you?
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 22, 2015 14:43:25 GMT -5
Jesse, would you post the misrepresentations that have come exe's on this TMB board (not the names of people, just the posts) that you consider "biased misrepresentations that have had an obviously poisonous effect on people who know nothing at all about the friends and workers?"
PS: You give no reference as to who wrote or where the above quote can be found.
dmmichgood I've done that, many times. The .pdf the quote is from is attached to the post. Click it to see it in all its glory. You need to slow down, read, and then comprehend what you read before you blast off.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 22, 2015 14:47:35 GMT -5
Activist exes, apostates!! Guess there's worse names. Keep them coming. Talk about generalized statements, bitter and the likes. Your no better than those you accuse. Reminds me of what us friends and workers get told: If the shoe fits wear it! If it doesn't, don't.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 22, 2015 15:03:52 GMT -5
Jesse, would you post the misrepresentations that have come exe's on this TMB board (not the names of people, just the posts) that you consider "biased misrepresentations that have had an obviously poisonous effect on people who know nothing at all about the friends and workers?"
PS: You give no reference as to who wrote or where the above quote can be found.
dmmichgood I've done that, many times. The .pdf the quote is from is attached to the post. Click it to see it in all its glory. You need to slow down, read, and then comprehend what you read before you blast off. Thank you, you are right, Jesse. I'm sorry, I didn't see where you posted that it came from the book by Parker.
Do you know where I could find Parker's book, A Spiritual Fraud Exposed?
I have looked at both Abe's Books & Amazon and can't find it listed .
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Post by Mary on Jul 22, 2015 15:26:42 GMT -5
It's not a book dmg, it was an article, newspaper article if I remember correctly. It is posted on one of the websites. Would be good to have the link.
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Post by xna on Jul 22, 2015 15:46:33 GMT -5
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Post by Mary on Jul 22, 2015 15:57:18 GMT -5
No it's not in those books. It's in the first link at TLT website.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 16:20:18 GMT -5
I think this excerpt is worth copying here for the benefit of those who (like me) don't normally read links. Matt10 After being approached by John Hardie as to whether I ever thought of becoming a "preacher," and being imbued with the thought that he and his fellow-workers were a continuation of those First Disciples (as they had lead me to believe) I decided to become actively associated with them, and so offered my life and my all.
As I was immediately accepted, I sold my business and finalised all activities connected with it. It was then that John Hardie called me over to his Guildford headquarters and made it clear that all my wealth had to be given to the "THE POOR" who, in this instance, was POOR OLD JOHN, HIMSELF, or the workers.
My faith in Mr. Hardie was such that I offered him:--
(a) The capital return from the sale and disposal of all my assets;
OR
(b) My signing over of all assets into a trust, whereby the income from rents, etc., would be paid, and then circulated amongst the "workers."
The latter appealed to Mr. Hardie, and as it was going to take some time to legally prepare, it was decided between Mr. Hardie and myself that my going out into the work could stand over until after the conventions of 1954.
Feeling indebted to my parents for what I had attained to in life, I was prompted to give them a holiday abroad, and this is where destiny changed for the better, thank God. This is where I saw Godly, saintly men, turn into raving devils, in their endeavour to flog us into submission.
Gordon McNabb threatened my father by saying.. "If you don't stop Douglas from going to England, I'll have to take the church out of the home!" John Hardie warned me with, "And if you do go to England, I'll have to seriously reconsider your acceptance into the work." He reprimanded my father with, "You know our idea about the Trust, and you had no right to think of such a trip without first consulting me."
Gordon McNabb brought so much pressure to bear on my mother, by demanding that she stop speaking in all further meetings and mentally persecuting her at every opportunity, that her nerves broke under the strain, and my father ordered both Gordon McNabb and Harry Ellem from the home.
So-called "friends" automatically shunned us, and all channels and connections with workers abroad were closed.
One thing was certain and that was that this belief wasn't everything that I thought it was, and so what was originally decided upon as a holiday was destined to be an investigation. An investigation which has dug down to the very foundation of this so-called only true family of God. An investigation of months of exhaustive enquiries, weeks of searching through halve a century of newspaper records and files. Countless stories taken from ex-communicated "workers," heart-breaking stories of family divisions, persecutions and so on, and not one skerrick of a doubt that this whole belief was founded in 1899 by an unbalanced evangelist, William Irvine.Founded by William Irvine in 1899
Astounding revelations found in North IrelandWilliam Irvine was the sole foundation and was entirely responsible for the creation of this whole movement. Astounding facts concerning the character of this outstanding evangelist reveal that there was much lacking mentally, morally and in honesty. Another well-known identity, Edward Cooney, was recognised as Irvine's deputy, and from here originated the name Cooneyites. No wonder John Hardie did everything possible to stop this trip abroad. No wonder these men disclaimed any connections with the Cooneyites, or with William Irvine and Edward Cooney, as their's was a history that no one would be proud to be connected with. A history that had fetched repeated headlines in many a newspaper, and its activities on one occasion even stirring the House of Commons. Headlines such as "Irish Tramp Preachers," "The Pilgrims," "With the Saints," "The Cooneyites, "The Go Preachers" were all in connection with the Christian Conventions, The United Christian Conventions of Australia and New Zealand, or The Testimony of Jesus of Great Britain, as they are called today. Individual editorials, letters to the editor, Court cases, disturbances, scandalous stories, became so numerous in one instance, that it was necessary to enlist some help to copy this information. Here were character sketches from both within and without the Sect, records of meetings where there were thousands of person in attendance, instances of arguments and divisions, and no question of a doubt that this belief was originated by this powerful evangelist, William Irvine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 16:38:03 GMT -5
Thank xna, that is a correct source, and once again I have read it from beginning to end. Surely anyone stating things were not "orchestrated" are quite misled. Had I known this information before becoming a "worker" it would never have been my choice to become one of them. So, I had to discover most of it on my own, disbelieving it could all be true for years after my excommunication.
Yes, I knew of instances of even hidden worker suicides. Contemplated it myself before leaving that work, and again after my excommunication over absolutely and totally false accusation! Still people will not read that article! Pity that.
Thankfully the Parker's found courage and means to compile their text, as I would likely never had opportunity to read this tract now referenced in this thread. Thank you again for linking it here for all to know it is from over a half century ago, still being attempted to discredit and hide from members of the group.
Yes, I knew many of those men on the North American and European continents. Some were kindly, some not. Valued all the kindly ones except for blatant deceptions and outright lies (no other way of putting it!) when questioned, lulling me back to sleep until much later!
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 22, 2015 16:40:04 GMT -5
I'm not talking about sides, I'm talking about name calling when he gets upset when others name call but does it himself. Ok lets talk about this a bit. Doug Parker publishes and circulates statements like these, and others of their ilk, in a article titled A Spiritual Fraud Exposed; " Any belief that requires domination, cruelty, deliberate lies and fraud in order that it may be preserved, IS NOT OF GOD, and the sooner it is dissolved the better." " No religious craze of modern times was so unscriptural, so unnatural, so revolting and so unholy." Those statements and others of their ilk essentially condemn everyone in the fellowship to hell. I say he is an activist exe. You added apostate, which is also is true. He is a type III apostate, by definition. Am I really doing the same thing Doug did? Not even close. If you are honest you know it's not even close to the same thing.
Great post, Jesse. Please keep that one handy. It may prove useful again.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 22, 2015 16:50:34 GMT -5
Why do people get so upset about the truth about activist exes?
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 22, 2015 17:02:16 GMT -5
Why do people get so upset about the truth about activist exes? Why do you get so upset when people state THEIR story ?
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 22, 2015 17:06:57 GMT -5
You'd think I'm goring a sacred cow to death when all I'm doing is calmly telling the truth. I notice no-one addressed the points I made here, or on the Doug Parker thread.
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Post by fred on Jul 22, 2015 18:35:52 GMT -5
You'd think I'm goring a sacred cow to death when all I'm doing is calmly telling the truth. I notice no-one addressed the points I made here, or on the Doug Parker thread. OK Jesse, you have calmly had your say, mostly demonising the character of 'activist exes'. These folk sit on the very edge of the bell curve for exes, and yes they are strident and in your face, using over the top language. You really need to sort through their work to come to any valid conclusions. People like this are found in all walks of life. Then there is the vast bulk of exes some of whom speak freely and calmly in this forum, others you will need to get to know before hearing their story. Adding to this are the experiences related by those in the fellowship who are still committed to the group. One can't help coming to the conclusion though, that there are some basic underlying problems presenting themselves in all these stories. I am not so interested in the characters as in recurring themes that become evident and whether they are a reality.
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Post by fixit on Jul 22, 2015 19:08:36 GMT -5
I am not so interested in the characters as in recurring themes that become evident and whether they are a reality. I agree Fred. Too bad that some folks resort to character assassination to deflect attention from the issues.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 19:23:11 GMT -5
Quote - "... and not one skerrick of a doubt that this whole belief was founded in 1899 by an unbalanced evangelist, William Irvine.
Founded by William Irvine in 1899
Astounding revelations found in North Ireland
William Irvine was the sole foundation and was entirely responsible for the creation of this whole movement. Astounding facts concerning the character of this outstanding evangelist reveal that there was much lacking mentally, morally and in honesty."
You are trying to shoehorn a so-called "fact" into a "truth" about us.
"Facts" and "truth" are different things.
Ever read the cutting edge research on the foundation of Christianity by some of the world's top biblical scholars? They claim it had nothing to do with Jesus at all - and "Jesus of Nazareth" probably never existed. The NT was written by liars and lunatics.
And the facts keep piling on, fact after fact after fact.
This wasn't sad and embittered former members, out to settle scores against perceived enemies. These are impartial scholars.
Better read it if you are really honest about searching out the truth.
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Post by slowtosee on Jul 22, 2015 20:45:37 GMT -5
I am not so interested in the characters as in recurring themes that become evident and whether they are a reality. I agree Fred. Too bad that some folks resort to character assassination to deflect attention from the issues. Thanks Fred, fixit....... Reminder to self- “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” Socrates "If you can't answer a man's argument, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names." --Elbert Hubbard Alvin
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Post by emy on Jul 22, 2015 21:16:27 GMT -5
How does publishing the words of a man, who even published them himself, qualify as slander??
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