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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 27, 2015 20:31:23 GMT -5
I suppose one person's standard of living is another person's "nit pick" Can you tell me what the **TRUTH** THE WAY**, THE F&W's have that the other Christian religions don't have?
Do that & I think that I will find it just as nit-picking as you like. (In fact I can't think of a better example than yourself, especially when it comes to sexual matters best left in the bedroom)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 20:33:22 GMT -5
Doesn't matter what I say DMG You don't believe ANY religion.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 27, 2015 20:38:44 GMT -5
Doesn't matter what I say DMG You don't believe ANY religion. Right, Bert! and you are one of the best examples for the reason that I don't believe!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 20:56:13 GMT -5
For me, religion does not mean "spirituality" rather a belief system by which one lives, thus each person has their own religion. Some believe in absolutely nothing spiritual. To me that is their "religion."
Even then there is a continuum, as I perceive, it from the most strident to the least, nonetheless it governs their belief in living. On the other hand, there are those who DO believe in spiritual things, again from the most assertive to the least, and it is their religion, that is their belief by how they live. For me, finger pointing from one or the other has no bearing on individual belief. Both can be the nicest of people, and inversely, quite wicked. My Christ came for the missing of the mark by the entire world. Some accept that gift, some do not.
Arguments arise regarding what such a belief as I hold and the result of it in my life. I can only address my own life in this matter, as it is the only one I answer for. If others see no fruit of the spirit in it, then my religion is of no value to me nor anyone else. My trust, however, is in the one in whom I have believed.
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Post by fixit on Jul 27, 2015 21:21:18 GMT -5
In my opinion, exes and 2X2 (Athiest are the exception) agree on 90 percent. We all just argue hard over the 10 percent. Hopefully we all agree on the most important things. JD - there is quite a bit of agreement although exclusivity, grace and who Jesus is are often major differences. I don't particularly worry if someone believes Jesus is divine and is worthy of all honour and worship....but I think friends should worry about the trend to emphasise Christ's humanity over His divinity. In my view, it's not good teaching and leads to all sorts of problems. If the friends who have a good understanding of Scripture could give a lot more feedback to the workers then I think it would help. Friends should worry about the trend to emphasise Christ's divinity over His humanity. In my view, it's not good teaching and leads to all sorts of problems. William Irvine had it right, according to Goodhand Pattison's account...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 21:37:06 GMT -5
Quote - "particularly noticeable were his constant and oft repeated references to his own experiences, or as we might call it, "the work of his testimony," and right glad I am that this feature still gets the prominence it should have among our preachers of today.' Jesus said your critics will have it both ways. And here's a fine example. If our Workers do this they will be accused of speaking of themselves. This is Irvine's pattern - a man like Diotrephes
copy and paste: www.gotquestions.org/Diotrephes-in-the-Bible.html
John wrote 3 John to his friend Gaius. Here is the passage mentioning Diotrephes: “I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will not welcome us. So when I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, spreading malicious nonsense about us. Not satisfied with that, he even refuses to welcome other believers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church” (3 John 1:9–10)"
Oh how the enemies of the Truth would have made great sport of these troubles! Word of mouth TellingTheTruth. In the KJV it says that Diotrephes wanted the "preeminence amongst them." Like Irvine, actually. Maybe he even claimed to have been the author of his church.
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Post by fixit on Jul 28, 2015 1:05:02 GMT -5
Friends should worry about the trend to emphasise Christ's divinity over His humanity. In my view, it's not good teaching and leads to all sorts of problems. William Irvine had it right, according to Goodhand Pattison's account... Interesting view. He spent 3.5 years on earth compared to the countless ages of eternity when He created the heavens and the earth. And the core of Christianity in terms of what happened at Calvary and the resurrection could only occur because He was divine. I don't think William Irvine had much idea about it at all. William Irvine spent a couple of years studying at a theological training institute so he would have known the man-made theory.
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Post by fixit on Jul 28, 2015 1:59:42 GMT -5
William Irvine spent a couple of years studying at a theological training institute so he would have known the man-made theory. He mustn't have listened well. He made up many other things so I guess he decided to put his own spin on this one. Don't you think Jesus is divine? William acknowledged Jesus is divine, as far as I can tell.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 28, 2015 7:07:22 GMT -5
He mustn't have listened well. He made up many other things so I guess he decided to put his own spin on this one. Don't you think Jesus is divine? William acknowledged Jesus is divine, as far as I can tell. Last night I finished reading 1200 letters written by Wm Irvine that I received recently from an Omega Message Person. Irvine refers to the Trinity and Godhead in several of them. I could not tell what meaning he infuses the terms with.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 7:45:19 GMT -5
Quote - "Last night I finished reading 1200 letters written by Wm Irvine that I received recently from an Omega Message Person."
I recall mentioning that I spent 100 hours researching the NT Ministry - providing information that you, Parker, Luxom etc. did not know about. You made some caustic remark about me mentioning this 100 hours. How many hours did you spend reading 1200 letters? And, why? Are you Irvine's disciple? You certainly give that impression.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 28, 2015 8:51:23 GMT -5
Quote - "Last night I finished reading 1200 letters written by Wm Irvine that I received recently from an Omega Message Person." I recall mentioning that I spent 100 hours researching the NT Ministry - providing information that you, Parker, Luxom etc. did not know about. You made some caustic remark about me mentioning this 100 hours. How many hours did you spend reading 1200 letters? And, why? Are you Irvine's disciple? You certainly give that impression.Am I Irvine's disciple? No, I am a biographer of his life, ministry and legacy. It probably took me 3 hours total to read them. I didnt read them all at one sitting. I skimmed them for facts about his life and for his comments about other workers and visitors he had while living in Jerusalem. I skip over his Omega message preaching. When I first started receiving collections of his letters, I read them carefully until I was able to get a good idea of what his Omega gospel consisted of. I am frequently asked what was his Omega gospel and I wrote the answer in my book in Chapters 21, 22 & 23 at: www.tellingthetruth.info/founder_book/00wmibook.php. Of the 1200 letters, I will be typing 3 of them and posting them on TTT. Last night I posted to my book the tidbits of personal info I found.
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Post by Mary on Jul 28, 2015 12:55:30 GMT -5
My impression is that Cherie is a researcher and historian and I would hope she reads things before placing them in their rightful place in her files, website, or wherever they fit into her material. I hope she would read things pertaining to her work no matter who wrote it.
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Post by blandie on Jul 29, 2015 16:59:16 GMT -5
~~ Doug Parker HEARD the name of John Long was one of the 2x2 workers in 1900s. He had no clue the existence of John Long's journal. MOST of the workers didn't know John Long kept a journal of the early days until Cherie posted on her website TTT.
According to John Long's Journal....
It was the group of 2x2 workers got it rolling/moving forward.... John Long and Edward Cooney did most of the work to get the 2x2 movement going in 1898-99. The Faith Mission founder didn't appreciate what William Irvine (Faith Mission preacher) and John Long (Faith Mission prayer Union member) were doing and disassociated with them. Edward Cooney got the Sunday morning fellowship started among the group in 1901. William Irvine didn't stopped being a Faith Mission completely until 12/1900. William Irvine was wishy washy, half in and half out between staying as a Faith Mission preacher and be with the 2x2 movement 100%. Finally, he made up his mind and cast his all with the 2x2 movement in 12/1900. They elected WI as the overseer/leader of the group. PLEASE NOTE: The last paragraph (in red) is written by Nate--and is not written by John Long and that paragraph is not found in John Long's Journal. It is Nate's personal interpretation and paraphrase.Thanks for alerting that CherieKropp. It takes considerable reading through confirmation bias lenses to come up with John Long making a case for a situation where it was instead a group that started 2x2-ism. For me the abject deference of Long toward Irvine from start to finish tells more the opposite of what some make him out as saying and is willingly ignoring Long saying that Irvine was the first and the chief etc. You could just as easily read it as forceful Irvine leading Long into a revelation of an interpretation of Matt. X. Other than Long the others were missing at the formation and as far as we know Irvine may have had his own revelation even earlier but unless we find a day diary we'll never know when it occurred to him to go out spreading that new interpretation. Also its kind of dangerous to make a claim that the Parkers didn't come across Long or his perspective and recollections and I saw that Long's recollections have also been used by other authors that deal with his Pentecostal career instead of about the F&W blip in his career - so its been out there even if its part about the F&Ws is more recently known.
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