|
Post by maryhig on Jul 8, 2015 3:24:27 GMT -5
No we cannot be made righteous by simply following a man, your right, we are made righteous by Christ cleaning our hearts, through the spirit if we believe have faith and follow him. The works we do are to deny our own flesh and deny the sins of the world and Christ in our hearts will help us overcome sin. Many times they tried to lay their hands on Jesus, to kill him but it wasn't his time, then he said father I have glorified thee on the earth, I have finished the work thou gavest me to do. Glorifying God and bringing the truth was his work. And then Satan was able to lay his hands on him, once he had finished those works. Then he was betrayed and crucified and I don't put my whole faith on something that was a betrayal to Jesus in Satan's hands My faith rests on the life of Jesus saving me, in following him outwardly by living it as far as I'm willing to go following the way he showed me, and letting him live inwardly so he can help me overcome sin refreshing my heart with the holy spirit and cleaning me from within so i can live it outwardly. Thus denying the flesh and the world, becoming humble and a sacrifice acceptable to God through suffering until the end of my life. My faith does not rest on his death on a wooden cross saving me. Enduring to the end isn't just to keep our faith, it's to suffer and deny the flesh and the world. These are the works, and we can't do them without Christ in us, bringing us the holy spirit, and through faith Christ will give us the strength to succeed. I'm sorry Ross, but these are my beliefs, just as you have yours. And I can't see anything holy in the murder of innocence by Satan and God turning his wrath on a holy son and turning and forsaking him in the hour he most needed him. This isn't the God I believe in. He's a loving merciful father and I love him. And he will judge my heart. Thanks - a few questions: 1. How did/does Jesus clean your heart? 2. Do you believe that your sins were dealt with when you repented and turned to Christ ie were you justified at that time? 3. Do you believe that God showed His love and justice by offering up His son as an eternal sacrifice for sin? (Romans 3) 4. Why do you think a number of things including the curtain being torn in two occurred immediately the sinless One died? 5. Do you believe that the shedding of Christ's blood ie His perfect sin offering is important for mankind and for you especially? What do you make of an important chapter like Hebrew 9? 6. What do you think will happen on judgement day? Why do you believe that Christ will present you blameless and completely without sin before the Father? In your view, how is this possible? My heart is being cleansed by allowing Christ in and following him, letting him work in my heart and through the holy spirit putting me right. I have to Listen to my conscience which is getting stronger, and because the spirit is working in my heart I must do Gods will and let Christ live through me and show his love and light to others. I believe my past sins I did in ignorance were forgiven when I repented, but it has to be true repentance. Meaning we don't sin purposely anymore. If we sin purposely, I can be held accountable because I know God. If it's not a sin that's done on purpose and I realise that I have sinned, then I must pray and ask for forgivness and be willing to forgive all others who have sinned against me. I believe God showed his love by offering his son once letting him come and take on sinful flesh denying flesh (through freewill) and denying sin and the world and putting them to death by not living in this world of sin, but living his life wholly to please God. Thus being the perfect sacrifice without spot out blemish. Because there could be no sin found in him. Satan couldn't touch him. Jesus put satan to death in his flesh and never sinned! Jesus sacrificed his fleshly life for God. Many things happened after Jesus' death, but it's because is his life not his death on the cross. It's because he fulfilled the commandant God gave him which was to lay down his life (death to self) and bring the truth. He through his suffering made peoples hearts ready to accept him in the spirit. And showed us the way to live to please God. By the way it's not the curtain of the temple but the veil. Totally different and it has a spiritual meaning! I believe Jesus shedding his blood was important in the way Jesus explained it at the last supper! He was the perfect sin offering by willingly coming into sinful flesh and putting sin to death in his flesh so Satan had no hold in him. I believe judgement starts here and now, once we hear the true word of God, we are being judged. After death I believe I will be judged accordingly to what I have done once I have known God. My sins that I did in ignorance I believe God will forgive but if I'm purposely sinning then I believe I will be held accountable for those sins. As Paul says here in Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jul 8, 2015 3:40:13 GMT -5
Ross he came to show us the way, the truth and the life, and he defeated Satan by overcoming hatred with love. What does this mean then? John 18 For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” He is clearly saying why he came into the world, and it wasn't to save us by crucifixion at the hands of Satan, but by bringing us the truth. John 3 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Not his death on the cross, but by through him, by following him! You said yourself Ross in one of your posts that we have to die the death, why? Why do we have to, if Jesus has done it all for us? Why if we are already saved, do we have to fight sin within our own hearts? If we only have to believe then God has forgiven every sin always that we do? Jesus said take up your cross, deny yourself and follow me, no wooden cross here, what does this mean in your eyes? And how is it following him, by doing this? Endure means suffer! So what does enduring to the end mean then? There is also this 1 Timothy 1 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. The problem with you believing you can be just like Jesus is that it contradicts the teaching, saved by grace that those who believe Jesus was God and part of a triune God believe. They will never agree with you because they have taken what the RCC decided was the truth and believe it. The ones that put so much emphasis on his dying on the cross are the ones that follow a more pagan belief that a blood sacrifice must be performed for there to be salvation. It's a rather brutal and barbaric mindset, but it is one that has been around for a long long time. Longer than Christianity. The early Christians definitely knew the myths of the dying rising godmen and just applied a literalistic aspect to their Christ. It is very pagan in origin and puts the emphasis on the dying and rising being the salvation. That is all based on early religions, before Christianity, that believed in the Sun of God and the winter solstice when the sun stops it's journey in descending light in the days in December and the 3 days where it doesn't start to ascend again. The rising Sun of God is when the days start getting longer. This was worshiped for centuries by many earlier religions and early Christians knew this. The difference is they say their Christ was a literal person who died on the cross for their sins, instead of an analogy to the dying and rising God/man. I don't believe I can be just like Jesus, I have to die and let his spirit live through me. It's nothing to do with my works, it's Gods works through Christ and the holy spirit in the heart. By him guiding me and teaching me this is the only way I'm saved. By allowing Christ in, I'm saved from sin through the spirit of Christ and the holy spirit working through me. If, I continue to allow him in and follow him and endure to the end of my life! And I leave the afterlife in God's hands. I'm more concerned with getting my heart right here and now and bringing this love of God to others!
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jul 8, 2015 4:57:08 GMT -5
My heart is being cleansed by allowing Christ in and following him, letting him work in my heart and through the holy spirit putting me right. I have to Listen to my conscience which is getting stronger, and because the spirit is working in my heart I must do Gods will and let Christ live through me and show his love and light to others. I believe my past sins I did in ignorance were forgiven when I repented, but it has to be true repentance. Meaning we don't sin purposely anymore. If we sin purposely, I can be held accountable because I know God. If it's not a sin that's done on purpose and I realise that I have sinned, then I must pray and ask for forgivness and be willing to forgive all others who have sinned against me. I believe God showed his love by offering his son once letting him come and take on sinful flesh denying flesh (through freewill) and denying sin and the world and putting them to death by not living in this world of sin, but living his life wholly to please God. Thus being the perfect sacrifice without spot out blemish. Because there could be no sin found in him. Satan couldn't touch him. I many things happened after Jesus' death, but it's because is his life not his death on the cross. It's because he fulfilled the commandant God gave him which was to lay down his life (death to self) and bring the truth. He through his suffering made peoples hearts ready to accept him in the spirit. And showed us the way to live to please God. By the way it's not the curtain of the temple but the veil. Totally different and it has a spiritual meaning! I believe Jesus shedding his blood was important in the way Jesus explained it at the last supper! He was the perfect sin offering by willingly coming into sinful flesh and putting sin to death in his flesh so Satan had no hold in him. I believe judgement starts here and now, once we hear the true word of God, we are being judged. After death I believe I will be judged accordingly to what we have done once we have known God. My sins that I did in ignorance I believe God will forgive but if I'm purposely sinning then I believe I will be held accountable for those sins. As Paul says here in Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins Thanks for this. You sound like a wonderful person, and I mean this really sincerely, but your best deeds in life and your best righteousness will mean that you are sinful when you die. You will say and do things that you know you shouldn't say and do - I will as well. Every person on earth will. Our best deeds will never make us righteous - as it says in Romans our best deeds/works/righteousness is as filthy rags before a Holy God (by the way sinning wilfully is essentially turning our back on God - rejecting Him completely - no longer believing in Him - trampling the Son of God underfoot - treating as unholy the blood of the covenant) So if we believe that we will be judged according to our own deeds or works (without those deeds or works being totally covered by Christ's righteousness) then you and I and everyone are simply doomed for God's wrath. But what happened at Calvary changed it all. You haven't addressed what happened spiritually to Jesus on the cross - it is the pivotal moment in Christian history and the essence of the Christian faith! Where he became our substitute and perfectly atoned for our sins. It is impossible to ignore the key verses in Romans 3 (and hundreds of other places), which Paul called the gospel of God: "But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood — to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished. He did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus." The veil or thick curtain (around 4 inches think) in the Temple (between the Holy of Holies and the rest of the temple) simply signifies that man was separated from God by sin (Isaiah 59: 1-2). Jesus died and became our great eternal High Priest. Why was the veil or thick curtain torn into immediately Jesus died? It simply symbolised that His sacrifice, the shedding of His own blood, was a sufficient atonement for sins. It signified that now the way into the Holy of Holies was open for all people, both Jew and Gentile. As Paul said, when Jesus has died as our substitute and made perfect atonement for our sins, why would we want to go back living under the law? Why wouldn't we want to covered by Christ's righteousness eternally which he achieved on the cross through His redemption? That's the only way on judgement day that we will escape God's wrath - by completely trusting in His perfect sacrifice for sin and dying in our place. If we do that we will be justified and born again, receive his Holy Spirit which will help us to live for Him each day, die to self and follow as a whole-hearted disciple. The veil is the flesh and the temple is the body, it's spiritual! Also: Quote: Why wouldn't we want to covered by Christ's righteousness eternally which he achieved on the cross through His redemption? Because he didn't commit my sins! It's the blood of his life covering me that saves me from sin, not his death on the cross! But his death on his body the cross! Also This doesn't sound like every sin we do purposely once we know God is forgiven Romans 10 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. And this For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins And Jesus said your sins are forgiven, go sin no more. Also there isn't anything wonderful about me I'm afraid, I sin always. One big one was revealed to me last night by what someone wrote on here! Anything good comes from God! I'm just a servant. And I hope one day, when he looks at my heart he forgives me, because I truly love him. But I leave all that in his hands. He is my judge! As I said Ross, we have to believe what we feel is right in our own hearts. I just feel it's right to follow Jesus, let him in my heart and live it out. And leave my afterlife in God's hands! I'm going out in a bit, I have birthdays in the family, so I'm not being ignorant if I don't answer. But I can't see us in agreement here, so we'll have to agree to disagree! We don't want to get into a trinitarian style debate do we
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 8, 2015 14:38:58 GMT -5
The problem with you believing you can be just like Jesus is that it contradicts the teaching, saved by grace that those who believe Jesus was God and part of a triune God believe. They will never agree with you because they have taken what the RCC decided was the truth and believe it. The ones that put so much emphasis on his dying on the cross are the ones that follow a more pagan belief that a blood sacrifice must be performed for there to be salvation. It's a rather brutal and barbaric mindset, but it is one that has been around for a long long time. Longer than Christianity. The early Christians definitely knew the myths of the dying rising godmen and just applied a literalistic aspect to their Christ. It is very pagan in origin and puts the emphasis on the dying and rising being the salvation. That is all based on early religions, before Christianity, that believed in the Sun of God and the winter solstice when the sun stops it's journey in descending light in the days in December and the 3 days where it doesn't start to ascend again. The rising Sun of God is when the days start getting longer. This was worshiped for centuries by many earlier religions and early Christians knew this. The difference is they say their Christ was a literal person who died on the cross for their sins, instead of an analogy to the dying and rising God/man. I don't believe I can be just like Jesus, I have to die and let his spirit live through me. It's nothing to do with my works, it's Gods works through Christ and the holy spirit in the heart. By him guiding me and teaching me this is the only way I'm saved. By allowing Christ in, I'm saved from sin through the spirit of Christ and the holy spirit working through me. If, I continue to allow him in and follow him and endure to the end of my life! And I leave the afterlife in God's hands. I'm more concerned with getting my heart right here and now and bringing this love of God to others! They don't think they can 'do' anything to be saved except by the grace of God. You do believe you can 'die' to let in the spirit of Christ and become more like Christ. That is something you can 'do'. Therein lies the difference as I see it. I'm not saying that you think you will ever be perfect like Christ, but you do believe there is something you need to do daily 'die' for you to have a possibility of salvation. That's what I have got from what you say, but of course I could be misinterpreting what you're saying completely.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jul 8, 2015 17:02:58 GMT -5
I don't believe I can be just like Jesus, I have to die and let his spirit live through me. It's nothing to do with my works, it's Gods works through Christ and the holy spirit in the heart. By him guiding me and teaching me this is the only way I'm saved. By allowing Christ in, I'm saved from sin through the spirit of Christ and the holy spirit working through me. If, I continue to allow him in and follow him and endure to the end of my life! And I leave the afterlife in God's hands. I'm more concerned with getting my heart right here and now and bringing this love of God to others! They don't think they can 'do' anything to be saved except by the grace of God. You do believe you can 'die' to let in the spirit of Christ and become more like Christ. That is something you can 'do'. Therein lies the difference as I see it. I'm not saying that you think you will ever be perfect like Christ, but you do believe there is something you need to do daily 'die' for you to have a possibility of salvation. That's what I have got from what you say, but of course I could be misinterpreting what you're saying completely. Yes that's right, that's what I believe. And many times in the bible it says we have to leave off our old life of sin and live a new life in Christ. (Putting off the old man and putting on the new) I know I say it a lot, but what Jesus said seems to be bypassed be some people. He said, take up your cross, deny yourself, and follow me. Taking up our cross and denying ourselves is doing works, there's no way around that. But we can only succeed if we let Christ into our heart and listen to our conscience, because I believe that this is the spirit letting us know were wrong! And by listening God he is helping us to become clean from within. The outward works come hand in hand with this because once Gods love is working in our hearts, we will love our neighbour also! James said, resist the devil and he will flee, resist the devil. That's some thing to do. When you are being tempted but you know it's wrong. It's like the devil has one arm, and God through the conscience has the other. And your in the middle being torn. And I know that feeling because I've experienced it. My heart being torn by the flesh pulling me one way and God pulling me the other! It's one heck of a fight, fighting the fleshly desires! I remember when I started properly going to the meeting, and my conscience was in overdrive, because many of the things that I heard were wrong, i was doing! And they didn't know! I can remember going to work for the first time with no make up on, everyone looked at me like I had 2 heads. They were all gossiping, I got the "oh my what's happened to you, you look awful!" And the " you look so sick, are you Ill? " etc. I also stopped dying my hair, my boss called me on and said "what happened to you nice blonde hair and make up? It made you look so nice" (I didn't give these up for outward appearance, but because I was vain in my heart) next it was the drinking and socialising! And I liked to party! I think people thought I has lost it! I kept getting asked to go out, and go to parties and all the people who would hardly buy anyone a drink were there. Saying " go one, just one won't hurt you." But my conscience was working on me, God was working on my heart. And slowly I was dying to self. And the more I'm decreasing, the more Christ is increasing, and the stronger God is making me! I don't think of those things anymore. Money, big houses, best of cars etc. Are all unimportant. I see life so differently now. Now it's Gods love that's important, and sharing him with others and sharing his word and showing him through my life. And caring more about those people around me. But I couldn't do it because I am weak in the flesh, I know Christ strengthens me, and Gods holy spirit is working to help clean my heart! But I still go wrong. So I believe dying to self is important, because Jesus told us to do it when he told us to take up our crosses and deny ourselves and follow him, because he did it also! The verse below refers to death to self 1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. And this verse below tells us how wrong it is to sin. I just don't feel right, reading verses like this and saying I'm saved and going to heaven and all my sins are already forgiven! Also in 1 John 3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. Thanks for taking the time to read this
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Jul 8, 2015 19:41:12 GMT -5
If you have access to such knowledge such that you can proclaim there is no God, by definition YOU MUST BE GOD!!!! Atheists are here to yank our chain. They should not be allowed on a board that is supposed to be concerned with a theistic dispute. Hi Lee, that's a bit like Jesus talking to the people and saying "if you don't believe in God, can you leave the field before I speak please" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Everyone should have the chance to hear God, and God will judge all our hearts to see whether we cared enough to live it out and speak it, and whether we've heard the right gospel and listened. We can't judge just do. And remain unprofitable servants, God loves all of us, including atheists. He just wanted us all back. Hardness isn't a good thing, love conquers all. And if you're faith is strong, God will give you the wisdom to overcome any that speaks against him. If our own hearts are right. My uncle was an atheist and the word of God turned his life around. Peter in haste, cut the ear off, Jesus through love put it back on. We through love should be wanting people to hear, not cut their hearing off by being too harsh. And God will judge is all Yup. Contrary to their de facto nhilism, the atheists on TMB imagine they have made an ultimate study of ultimate things and are proffering a salvation that is so individualistic that it is unrealistic as well as unsaving. For instance when I disputed their claim that prostitution was acceptable between consensual adults, they surely realize they wouldn't have their own child prostitute themselves. They're philosophical and ontological liars. In other words, they deny what they know to be true in order to advance their war on the Gospel.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 8, 2015 20:26:35 GMT -5
Hi Lee, that's a bit like Jesus talking to the people and saying "if you don't believe in God, can you leave the field before I speak please" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Everyone should have the chance to hear God, and God will judge all our hearts to see whether we cared enough to live it out and speak it, and whether we've heard the right gospel and listened. We can't judge just do. And remain unprofitable servants, God loves all of us, including atheists. He just wanted us all back. Hardness isn't a good thing, love conquers all. And if you're faith is strong, God will give you the wisdom to overcome any that speaks against him. If our own hearts are right. My uncle was an atheist and the word of God turned his life around. Peter in haste, cut the ear off, Jesus through love put it back on. We through love should be wanting people to hear, not cut their hearing off by being too harsh. And God will judge is all Yup. Contrary to their de facto nhilism, the atheists on TMB imagine they have made an ultimate study of ultimate things and are proffering a salvation that is so individualistic that it is unrealistic as well as unsaving. For instance when I disputed their claim that prostitution was acceptable between consensus adults, they surely realize they wouldn't have their own child prostitute themselves. They're philosophical and ontological liars, in other words. They deny what they know to be true in order to advance their war on the Gospel. Utterly wrong Lee. There is no war on the Gospel. There is no condoning child prostitution and why would we offer salvation when there is nothing to be saved from? Once again you have proven you don't have a clue what an atheist thinks.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Jul 8, 2015 20:28:43 GMT -5
So adult prostitution is okay so long as its not your child?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 20:31:27 GMT -5
Yup. Contrary to their de facto nhilism, the atheists on TMB imagine they have made an ultimate study of ultimate things and are proffering a salvation that is so individualistic that it is unrealistic as well as unsaving. For instance when I disputed their claim that prostitution was acceptable between consensus adults, they surely realize they wouldn't have their own child prostitute themselves. They're philosophical and ontological liars, in other words. They deny what they know to be true in order to advance their war on the Gospel. Utterly wrong Lee. There is no war on the Gospel. There is no condoning child prostitution and why would we offer salvation when there is nothing to be saved from? Once again you have proven you don't have a clue what an atheist thinks. I don't think he meant child prostitution I think he meant ADULT CHILD prostitution
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 8, 2015 20:43:23 GMT -5
Utterly wrong Lee. There is no war on the Gospel. There is no condoning child prostitution and why would we offer salvation when there is nothing to be saved from? Once again you have proven you don't have a clue what an atheist thinks. I don't think he meant child prostitution I think he meant ADULT CHILD prostitution Adult Child Prostitution? I don't know what that is. You are either a child or an adult. There has to be consent and there can be no consent if you are a child.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 20:51:50 GMT -5
I don't think he meant child prostitution I think he meant ADULT CHILD prostitution Adult Child Prostitution? I don't know what that is. You are either a child or an adult. There has to be consent and there can be no consent if you are a child. if your an adult your still the child of someone. he was just saying you wouldn't want your ADULT child to be engaged in prostitution would you?
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 8, 2015 21:42:06 GMT -5
Adult Child Prostitution? I don't know what that is. You are either a child or an adult. There has to be consent and there can be no consent if you are a child. if your an adult your still the child of someone. he was just saying you wouldn't want your ADULT child to be engaged in prostitution would you? Okay, thanks Wally. No I probably wouldn't, but it is not my decision once they are an adult.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jul 9, 2015 0:08:12 GMT -5
The veil is the flesh and the temple is the body, it's spiritual! Also: Quote: Why wouldn't we want to covered by Christ's righteousness eternally which he achieved on the cross through His redemption? Because he didn't commit my sins! It's the blood of his life covering me that saves me from sin, not his death on the cross! But his death on his body the cross! Also This doesn't sound like every sin we do purposely once we know God is forgiven Romans 10 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. And this For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins And Jesus said your sins are forgiven, go sin no more. Also there isn't anything wonderful about me I'm afraid, I sin always. One big one was revealed to me last night by what someone wrote on here! Anything good comes from God! I'm just a servant. And I hope one day, when he looks at my heart he forgives me, because I truly love him. But I leave all that in his hands. He is my judge! As I said Ross, we have to believe what we feel is right in our own hearts. I just feel it's right to follow Jesus, let him in my heart and live it out. And leave my afterlife in God's hands! I'm going out in a bit, I have birthdays in the family, so I'm not being ignorant if I don't answer. But I can't see us in agreement here, so we'll have to agree to disagree! We don't want to get into a trinitarian style debate do we Thanks.... The temple in the OT was not our body. The Holy of Holies was definitely not out body! In the New Covenant the Holy Spirit dwells in our body which is now its temple - why does it dwell there - because what happened on Calvary when defeated Christ sin and Satan forever caused sin or the veil to be forever torn in two. Of course Christ didn't commit your sins - but by His grace he bore them and dealt with them on the tree!!! The Bible is very clear in this. I don't really understand your next statement - you say Jesus said "go and sin no more" but then you say that you sin always. It's only possible to understand this issue in the context of Christ's righteousness. You and I will need every last ounce of Christ's righteousness when it comes to the judgement day - and by His grace He gives it freely to those who repent and turn to Him. Contrary to what you have said we do need or have to believe at all what we feel is right in our hearts - that's the very problem! We can end up believing all sorts of things. We need to line up with what is in God's word - the Holy Spirit will point us to nothing that does not line up with God's word. Hope you enjoyed the birthday parties! I have no intention on having a debate about who God is. You have indicated that you don't worship Jesus but then you do when you sing certain hymns every week You have indicated that what happened on the cross is nothing so I hope you don't sing a hymn like #20 (and many others) where it says "Saviour, my Saviour, Thou hast died to make me free..." As the hymn correctly points out what matters is His death and the victory that He achieved for you and me on the cross at Calvary. The thing is, when I read the bible everything I read about the crucifixion is sinful, Jesus was betrayed, he was beaten, he was murdered, he said it was wrong to kill him, the apostles said it was wrong to kill him, God said or wrong to kill, wicked hands slew him, they lied and brought in false witnesses, everything about the crucifixion was deceitful, but it's been made holy. You say that if we listen to our hearts, we can end up believing all sorts of things, but not if the spirit of God is there you won't. He will be teaching us. What happened on the cross isn't nothing to me, it breaks my heart what they did to Jesus, and he lifts my heart with the mercy, strength, forgivness and love he showed. But I don't believe that God would use a wicked act, the murder of a pure heart to save me! And that now, I don't have to do anything because I'm already saved. I believe his life saves me, by following him, and by receiving his spirit into my heart to make me alive in God and help me overcome Satan! When I said I sin all the time, I meant unintentionally, like we all do. But I'm in trouble if I wilfully sin. Wilful sin can be held against us. And its wrong just to flippantly say all sins are forgiven already, because some people will take that as their going to heaven anyway and God will forgive them, no matter what they do. They just have to say sorry and believe in Jesus. I don't believe that, I believe that when you know God, unintentional sin when realised is forgiven if we truly repent. That's why it says in our daily prayer, forgive us or trespasses , but only as we forgive our trespassers! I believe wilful sin can be held against us. And its wrong to let people think otherwise. Jesus did say go sin no more, but we all unintentionally sin. We must truly repent when we realise what we've done. I need every ounce of Christ's righteousness now, well before judgement day, his love and strength is guiding me and giving me the strength to overcome Satan, without him and Gods holy spirit, Satan would have me no problem! I definitely don't think it's my righteousness that's getting me anywhere. But somehow you seem to think I do? I keep saying that it's nothing to do with my works, but Gods within the heart! I don't pray to Jesus and I don't call Jesus God. Because he himself said that I am to worship God and serve only him. And he called God his father. I'm only doing what Jesus teaches us to do! Thanks but there wasn't any parties, ( I'm past that now) just a quiet afternoon get together. It was nice being altogether with my sisters, mum, daughters.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jul 9, 2015 2:47:55 GMT -5
The thing is, when I read the bible everything I read about the crucifixion is sinful, Jesus was betrayed, he was beaten, he was murdered, he said it was wrong to kill him, the apostles said it was wrong to kill him, God said or wrong to kill, wicked hands slew him, they lied and brought in false witnesses, everything about the crucifixion was deceitful, but it's been made holy. You say that if we listen to our hearts, we can end up believing all sorts of things, but not if the spirit of God is there you won't. He will be teaching us. What happened on the cross isn't nothing to me, it breaks my heart what they did to Jesus, and he lifts my heart with the mercy, strength, forgivness and love he showed. But I don't believe that God would use a wicked act, the murder of a pure heart to save me! And that now, I don't have to do anything because I'm already saved. I believe his life saves me, by following him, and by receiving his spirit into my heart to make me alive in God and help me overcome Satan! When I said I sin all the time, I meant unintentionally, like we all do. But I'm in trouble if I wilfully sin. Wilful sin can be held against us. And its wrong just to flippantly say all sins are forgiven already, because some people will take that as their going to heaven anyway and God will forgive them, no matter what they do. They just have to say sorry and believe in Jesus. I don't believe that, I believe that when you know God, unintentional sin when realised is forgiven if we truly repent. That's why it says in our daily prayer, forgive us or trespasses , but only as we forgive our trespassers! I believe wilful sin can be held against us. And its wrong to let people think otherwise. Jesus did say go sin no more, but we all unintentionally sin. We must truly repent when we realise what we've done. I need every ounce of Christ's righteousness now, well before judgement day, his love and strength is guiding me and giving me the strength to overcome Satan, without him and Gods holy spirit, Satan would have me no problem! I definitely don't think it's my righteousness that's getting me anywhere. But somehow you seem to think I do? I keep saying that it's nothing to do with my works, but Gods within the heart! I don't pray to Jesus and I don't call Jesus God. Because he himself said that I am to worship God and serve only him. And he called God his father. I'm only doing what Jesus teaches us to do! Thanks but there wasn't any parties, ( I'm past that now) just a quiet afternoon get together. It was nice being altogether with my sisters, mum, daughters. It was a dreadful thing to happen to Jesus, a murderous thing, but it was the Father's will and plan for mankind. The Father's will, by definition, cannot be sinful. He was wounded for our transgressions. On Him was laid the iniquity of us all. He did it to demonstrate His righteousness (Romans 3:25) The Father delivered Him over to death for our sins and He was raised to life for our justification (Romans 4:25) He did it to demonstrate His own love for us in this - while we were still sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:8) The physical suffering was bad enough but the spiritual suffering was far worse - Jesus bore God's wrath on the cross. In doing this He saved those who repent and turn to Him from the wrath that is to come. When we realise what Christ achieved for us that day we should bow down and worship Him...and thank Him eternally. We are clothed in His righteousness when we are born again (justified) and His righteousness is the only thing that will save us on judgement day. It is nothing of ourselves - it is all about the One who has taken the penalty for sin away - a penalty that we deserve. And we follow Him in thankfulness until the day we die. Ross, I see the death in those verses as death to self. Sorry, but i don't believe that the God that I love in my heart would not only let Satan through his wrath murder his innocent son to save me, but also turn away and forsake him in his hour of need. That doesn't ring true about a holy loving God. And I have never read in the bible that he turned his face away from Jesus as he suffered on the cross. His strengthened him. He was with him the whole time, and Jesus at the end if his life, asked God to take his spirit! Just like God strengthens us through our suffering in this life and until our last breath if we repent, remain faithful and endure (which is suffer) to the end. Regardless of whatever anyone has ever taught me, it feels so wrong in my heart to say that God turned his face away and poured his wrath out on Jesus when he was sinless. God is love. He had no part in the crucifixion, and Jesus won the biggest fight ever won, one that hadn't been won since Adam fell. He overcame Satan completely! Acts 2 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Acts 3 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; And killed the Prince of life 1 Corinthians 2 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. John 8 v 37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. John ,8v40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. John 7 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me? Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill" God doesn't go against his own commandments! This is my beliefs, and my God is a God of love. What Jesus did by dying in the cross was overcome Satan, by enduring to the end of his life, and replacing evil with love and forgivness. But it's his life and the love of God that saves us!
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jul 9, 2015 3:28:43 GMT -5
Doesn't anyone here have a clue that Jesus was not the only crucifixion at this time?
Jesus was accused of sedition, not blasphemy—it was civil crime, not a religious one. Rome crucified many people. It was a popular method of dispatching threats to the empire. Romans practiced it against populations they had conquered, -killing tens of thousands by crucifixion.
The roads to a city would be lined with crosses.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jul 9, 2015 4:01:52 GMT -5
Ross, I see the death in those verses as death to self. Sorry, but i don't believe that the God that I love in my heart would not only let Satan through his wrath murder his innocent son to save me, but also turn away and forsake him in his hour of need. That doesn't ring true about a holy loving God. And I have never read in the bible that he turned his face away from Jesus as he suffered on the cross. His strengthened him. He was with him the whole time, and Jesus at the end if his life, asked God to take his spirit! Just like God strengthens us through our suffering in this life and until our last breath if we repent, remain faithful and endure (which is suffer) to the end. Regardless of whatever anyone has ever taught me, it feels so wrong in my heart to say that God turned his face away and poured his wrath out on Jesus when he was sinless. God is love. He had no part in the crucifixion, and Jesus won the biggest fight ever won, one that hadn't been won since Adam fell. He overcame Satan completely! Acts 2 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Acts 3 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; And killed the Prince of life 1 Corinthians 2 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. John 8 v 37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. John ,8v40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. John 7 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me? Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill" God doesn't go against his own commandments! This is my beliefs, and my God is a God of love. What Jesus did by dying in the cross was overcome Satan, by enduring to the end of his life, and replacing evil with love and forgivness. But it's his life and the love of God that saves us! The key to it all is what happened spiritually to Jesus on the cross. That is the ultimate act of love from God to us. Jesus cried "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”. Jesus is quoting the opening line of Psalm 22. He is quoting it to express his agony on the cross - not His physical agony which was immense - but His spiritual agony. He is suffering the penalty for our sin, in our place. The penalty for sin is simply death (Romans 6:23) and Jesus died solely that we might be able to escape death eternally. He was experiencing the agony of separation from His Father. It was the agony of hell. It is only understood when we accept that Jesus was both the Son of God and man united in one divine person as the Bible teaches. He could not suffer and die with respect to His divinity or deity. But he could suffer the agony of separation from the Father and die physically with respect to His humanity. And He did this so that those who repent and turn in faith to Him as Saviour and Lord would be forgiven of sin eternally and be reconciled to God as His children. “We all, like sheep, have gone astray … and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all” (Isaiah 53:6). Jesus Christ, the promised Messiah, bridged the gap between God and man. That is exactly why the veil of sin between man and God was torn in two when Jesus was victorious in death. You think of the death of Christ as dreadful but it was the will of God and a complete demonstration of His justice and love that His only begotten Son would take the punishment that we deserve. The Father did not kill the Son - He did not commit murder - others did that - but it was the Father's will that Jesus would die. It's an impossible thing to ignore in the Christian faith as it is the very essence of the Christian faith. Well Ross we could go on and on, but if Jesus says it's wrong to kill him and he said they were going against Gods commandants, then that's good enough for me! I don't have to believe what you do, God gave us freewill. But my heart tells me that God isn't like that. He will judge our hearts, and if I'm wrong then he will judge me. But I feel that the way I believe is right and my heart is sincere. I will leave my life in Gods hands. And for now try and fight the good fight and hopefully keep my faith endure to the end. Then God will let me know if I will receive an eternity in heaven. That's not for me to know yet. I just have to live out the life that Christ through the spirit is showing me is right. And take up my cross, deny myself and follow Jesus. Loving God with all my heart, soul, mind and strength and my neighbour as myself. And if I'm blessed to get in, I hope to meet all of you there.
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Jul 9, 2015 14:28:16 GMT -5
There are many aspects of Jesus going to the Cross and also the Cross itself, most if all of which are correct. Jesus did die to self and we are committed to do the same. I think everything you say about dieing to self is correct, but it harmonizes with the idea of sacrifice; it doesn't stand against it. Jesus' death on the Cross represents the culmination of dieing to self, because Jesus could have taken himself out of the picture at any time. He had to just let it happen, like a lamb led to the slaughter, he opened not his mouth. He verified aloud with God, "if you are willing, let this Cup of suffering be taken away from me", that it was necessary to go this far. God did not crucify Jesus, but He did stand by and allow it to happen. He had the power to prevent Jesus death, but had He prevented it, mankind would not have been redeemed. In doing this, Jesus broke the power of the world and Satan that sent him to the Cross. One way I understand this is: do your absolute worst, you will not conquer the love of God. Once they had done their worst, the power of the love of God was intact. And this broke the gates of Hell. God did not forsake Jesus in terms of loving Him. He always loved Jesus as His Son, but He allowed His Son to die and to suffer. He couldn't look at it. I think the forsaking part has to be understood as a singularity; just while Jesus was suffering, and just in terms of allowing the suffering to happen. God never stopped loving Jesus. It wasn't a rejection and it wasn't cold-hearted. It was inevitable, something that had to be done. If we don't then die to self, and follow his example for the bit God gives to us, then we just haven't really understood His love. People do drift on "easy grace", the mentality that God saved me through Jesus so I don't have to do much. But no one who understands the love of God and the nature of his sacrifice would drift on God's grace. The sacrifice has to move us to follow Jesus, or we make his sacrifice, his gift, to be nothing. Why did it have to be done? I got distracted on some other threads, and had a mental note that something was left undone here, and I apologize for the belated response. In some sense, we don't know the answer to that question. Someone might say, why didn't God just create a perfect world with perfect people, the kind of people he'd want in heaven. Why go through all this trouble? The fact is that we don't live in such a world. We live in an imperfect sinful world. So that's the reality and that's what we work with. And given that we live in such a world, and are imperfect by nature, we can't create heaven, or Utopia, on our own. (And I believe we should try.) And God can't accept us into heaven as we are. The sacrifice of God's Son to me is a cosmic "pay it forward". Satan has a claim on us. He'll say I'm imperfect and he should have me on his side. But I can say, I've committed to God, to living an honest and good life, and Jesus has already been into Hell for me, and paid the price. So God can take what he can use, and the rest will be stripped away in Purgatory. 1 Co 3:11-15. (I know that only Catholics believe in Purgatory, and I happen to believe in it also. But I don't think it matters if you do or don't.)
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jul 9, 2015 14:42:16 GMT -5
(I know that only Catholics believe in Purgatory, and I happen to believe in it also. But I don't think it matters if you do or don't.) ~ What Hat, I'm curious, Do you self identify today as Catholic?
|
|
hberry
Senior Member
Posts: 743
|
Post by hberry on Jul 9, 2015 16:15:13 GMT -5
Why did it have to be done? I got distracted on some other threads, and had a mental note that something was left undone here, and I apologize for the belated response. In some sense, we don't know the answer to that question. Someone might say, why didn't God just create a perfect world with perfect people, the kind of people he'd want in heaven. Why go through all this trouble? The fact is that we don't live in such a world. We live in an imperfect sinful world. So that's the reality and that's what we work with. And given that we live in such a world, and are imperfect by nature, we can't create heaven, or Utopia, on our own. (And I believe we should try.) And God can't accept us into heaven as we are. The sacrifice of God's Son to me is a cosmic "pay it forward". Satan has a claim on us. He'll say I'm imperfect and he should have me on his side. But I can say, I've committed to God, to living an honest and good life, and Jesus has already been into Hell for me, and paid the price. So God can take what he can use, and the rest will be stripped away in Purgatory. 1 Co 3:11-15. (I know that only Catholics believe in Purgatory, and I happen to believe in it also. But I don't think it matters if you do or don't.) I was hoping you'd come back to the question eventually. My Mom asked me the same question close to the end of her life. Since then I've done a lot of thinking about that "why" and I'm always glad to hear what others have to say. Mom's question was a poignant moment for me, as she was becoming increasingly aware that death was approaching and it felt to me like the thought of what it was for Jesus to die for "the sin of the world" was beginning to take on a different aspect for her: less theoretical and more real. I have a deeper appreciation for the words "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" as a result of those days of studying with Mom.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Jul 10, 2015 0:41:58 GMT -5
They do mirror and illustrate the hypocrite in all of us, this is true! Lee, do you think that Antonie Philips van Leeuwenhoek commonly known as "the Father of Microbiology" and considered to be the first microbiologist was also hypocrite?
Was scientist Louis Pasteur who came up with the food preparing process known as pasteurization & also developed a vaccination for anthrax and rabies, a hypocrite as well?Hypocrites pretend or imagine to be something they're not. Louis and Antonie were hypocrites to the extent they venerated existentialism to the exclusion of the Creator.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Jul 10, 2015 0:45:23 GMT -5
if your an adult your still the child of someone. he was just saying you wouldn't want your ADULT child to be engaged in prostitution would you? Okay, thanks Wally. No I probably wouldn't, but it is not my decision once they are an adult. Baloney. Our laws, our culture, our behaviors, all of these shape the next generation for the rest of their lives. Is prostitution not wrong? That is the question. Is libertarian philosophy not inherently licentious? When is pragmatism of the Lord? When is it moral and ethical compromise?
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jul 10, 2015 2:51:11 GMT -5
I was hoping you'd come back to the question eventually. My Mom asked me the same question close to the end of her life. Since then I've done a lot of thinking about that "why" and I'm always glad to hear what others have to say. Mom's question was a poignant moment for me, as she was becoming increasingly aware that death was approaching and it felt to me like the thought of what it was for Jesus to die for "the sin of the world" was beginning to take on a different aspect for her: less theoretical and more real. I have a deeper appreciation for the words "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" as a result of those days of studying with Mom. Agree - why did the fall of man occur etc - they are big questions that we don't really know the answer to. Yes, I think when a person approaches death, or they (and others) are hurting from deep sinfulness or they are going through major upheaval in their lives the comfort and hope that what Christ has done is very real. I know in my own situation that when I was facing major surgery that the love that Christ showed for me on the cross was very personal and real - I knew how sinful in many ways I was and I was worried about that - and when I read the word of God and thought long and hard about it it was as if God was just saying to me "Don't worry - I'm already paid the price for you....I've already been your substitute....you've been freed from your sin because of that...." Ross, can I ask you please. Because I'm curious. Do you think you can purposely sin, and God will forgive you?
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jul 10, 2015 3:20:40 GMT -5
Okay, thanks Wally. No I probably wouldn't, but it is not my decision once they are an adult. Baloney. Our laws, our culture, our behaviors, all of these shape the next generation for the rest of their lives. Is prostitution not wrong? That is the question. Is libertarian philosophy not inherently licentious? When is pragmatism of the Lord? When is it moral and ethical compromise? Why do you believe prostitution is wrong? That is the real question!
Why do you think that all sex is licentious? That is the the real question! Just why is sex the subject of all your posts as the worse "sins" possible?
St. Augustine's sure has you buffaloed with his views about sexuality. Augustine as a source of Western society's negative attitudes about sexuality.
Whether Augustine is directly responsible for the traditions that came down to history or simply articulated the prevailing viewpoint is open to debate.
However, Augustine clearly had a significant influence in shaping Western ideas about sexuality. He certainly seems to have you hooked.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jul 10, 2015 3:25:37 GMT -5
The problem with you believing you can be just like Jesus is that it contradicts the teaching, saved by grace that those who believe Jesus was God and part of a triune God believe. They will never agree with you because they have taken what the RCC decided was the truth and believe it. The ones that put so much emphasis on his dying on the cross are the ones that follow a more pagan belief that a blood sacrifice must be performed for there to be salvation.
It's a rather brutal and barbaric mindset, but it is one that has been around for a long long time. Longer than Christianity. The early Christians definitely knew the myths of the dying rising godmen and just applied a literalistic aspect to their Christ. It is very pagan in origin and puts the emphasis on the dying and rising being the salvation. That is all based on early religions, before Christianity, that believed in the Sun of God and the winter solstice when the sun stops it's journey in descending light in the days in December and the 3 days where it doesn't start to ascend again. The rising Sun of God is when the days start getting longer. This was worshiped for centuries by many earlier religions and early Christians knew this. The difference is they say their Christ was a literal person who died on the cross for their sins, instead of an analogy to the dying and rising God/man. Right on Snow!
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Jul 10, 2015 3:53:44 GMT -5
Ross, can I ask you please. Because I'm curious. Do you think you can purposely sin, and God will forgive you? Does God forgive intentional sin? - yes, if he didn't we'd all be doomed. You and I will sin intentionally as Peter, the prodigal son and others did. Throughout your life there will always be times when we know we shouldn't say or do something yet we do it. Hebrews 10:26 is referring to apostasy which is the same as blasphemy - effectually rejecting God and trampling the Son of God underfoot as it says there in v29 "How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?" I looked up a couple of articles and enjoyed reading the following one truthsaves.org/articles/will-god-forgive-purposeful-sin/The blood of the covenant is the new testament! Which is his blood, which he has shed for many for the remission of sins. It's the Gospel. It's his life poured out bringing us Gods holy spirit and love! And we become a part of that covenant with God, when we follow Jesus drink from the cup and take part, entering into the kingdom and spreading the gospel, allowing Christ into our hearts and living it out, denying flesh and the world and become one with God and Christ! I wouldn't be so sure about saying were ok intentionally sinning Ross and we will definitely be forgiven! Unintentionally yes, but you can't say God will forgive intentional sins. What does this in Hebrews 10 mean? For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins And this Romans 6, quite clearly said once we are dead to self ( baptised into his death), we are to sin no more! Just like Jesus told the woman caught on adultary. The meaning of taking up your cross and denying yourself, is denying the flesh, world and sin. Not thinking God will forgive sins we've purposely done, quite clearly we're not to continue in sin. Even though Gods grace is plentifully. Were not to take God for granted! It's better not to purposely sin, than to hope God forgives us. Romans 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness ofhis resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Our old man should be crucified with Christ. Our body should be dead to sin. And Christ in our hearts through the holy spirit should be working in our hearts, and our conscience should be so strong that we can't purposely sin. Because as soon as we think of sin, that conscience should kick in immediately. And I believe this is the spirit guiding us and encouraging us not to do it. And hopefully we listen! Edit: this just came to me, the prodigal son sinned, but he suffered in his lifetime for that sin he wasn't just forgiven, he had to truly realise what he'd done wrong and realise that what he had neglected was so precious and once he was brought low, he returned. Being Humbled so much so that he was willing to be a servant. And that's like us. We have to be humbled and willing to be a servant and truly repent to receive Gods forgivness. Once we know the living God, we can't purposely sin and think we're ok, he might see it differently! Also peter didn't intentionally sin, he only realised he has sinned when the cock crowed. And he wept bitterly!
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Jul 10, 2015 18:37:33 GMT -5
Where does Maryhigs post stop and yours start Ross?
|
|
hberry
Senior Member
Posts: 743
|
Post by hberry on Jul 10, 2015 18:41:44 GMT -5
Where does Maryhigs post stop and yours start Ross? Different colors would have helped. It's a tad hard to discern.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jul 10, 2015 19:05:48 GMT -5
I think it starts where Ross says "Peter didn't intentionally sin?? Cmon....he knew completely what he was doing. He remembered Jesus words when the cock crowed - not realised he was sinning when the cock crowed!!"
|
|