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Post by rational on Jul 5, 2015 14:34:50 GMT -5
I'm not sure where you're going with this Rat -- my comments were restricted to the pressure to profess or in other groups to become an initiated member of the group. Step back. Christianity is a group. Theism is a group. The difference is that the parents make the decision for the child and indoctrinate them.Remember the Jesuits? Give me the child for his first seven years, and I'll give you the man. How many children raised as christians decide to convert to Judaism?You mean like christianity? Or the belief in a paranormal being? Exactly.
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Post by rational on Jul 5, 2015 23:18:11 GMT -5
Rat the research that I do covers all belief systems - I honestly don't care what spiritual orientation a child is raised in the point that I was trying to make is that if a child is raised in a high control group where they are expected to become full members at an early age by participating in the rituals like and with adults that this might be inappropriate. And my point was that most religions, like christianity, are high control groups that children are expected to take a part in early on. Perhaps singing hymns or praying to be forgiven.That is also my point. Young children are being indoctrinated in christianity, judaism, etc. way before they can understand it.Christianity is about as exclusive a religion as there is. Believe or go to hell. What kind of a message is that to give to a child? Exclusive and strict. I see what you mean but it is a matter of degrees. Raising a child to fear the outside world is probably not a good idea. But does that make indoctrinating in less extreme ideas OK? It is not a good idea to use branding with a hot iron as a means of getting a child to do what you want but does that mean less extreme means of punishment are OK? I think we are both on the same track but you have focused on the small groups within religions and I see religions as equally damaging to young children.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 5, 2015 23:40:41 GMT -5
I'm not very clear on what the consensus was. I usually don't chop up posts line by line, but I'm looking for clarification. I have seen a Saturday night convention meeting "tested" and a child so small they could hardly be seen will stand up and "make their choice". I know it puts the workers in a spot. Do you accept this choice or do you hurt the little child's feelings. Some of you may have professed young and knew what you were doing. I feel like parental pressure and maybe the content of the sermons probably influenced that choice. I am on my way home from an international conference on raising children in high control groups (we met in Stockholm) and one of the topics that came up over and over again was do children have a choice in belonging or not. Is the issue one of 'rights' or 'capability'. That is, is the question "Children do not have a right to choose the religion they will follow and are subject to their parents' orders?" Or is the question, "children are not capable of making the decision to follow their parents' religion?" Or is it something else entirely? So I take it that the keynote was about children's rights regarding religion. And how does that relate to children's rights? What if a child, a minor, decides to go to a different church or religion than that of their parents. Do they have the ability to make that decision? Should they have that right? A consensus about children's abilities or about their rights? Who wouldn't agree that a child can't make a decision in the same way as an adult? But what is the impact of that knowledge in terms of children's rights and parental rights? How do you feel about school pageants, Christmas nativities, choir, public speaking, square dancing, competitive sports and other tortures we put young children through? Or *gag* beauty pageants for little girls? But I agree with you that 8 or 9 is too young. It's an area in which more caution could be exercised and I think that is the trend so you can feel better about that. Our three kids all professed around 9 or 10. I think giving testimonies has helped them in life to an extent, but they also were involved in choir, public speaking and activities at school that helped in the cause. One went on to be a public speaking champion in later grades and is a lawyer today. One is a professor and lectures fairly large classes and seminars. The third has sung semi-professionally. Two of them are introverts by nature. None are in meetings now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 23:57:01 GMT -5
I have seen a Saturday night convention meeting "tested" and a child so small they could hardly be seen will stand up and "make their choice". I know it puts the workers in a spot. Do you accept this choice or do you hurt the little child's feelings. Some of you may have professed young and knew what you were doing. I feel like parental pressure and maybe the content of the sermons probably influenced that choice. This must be an American thing. I have never seen a child this young in NZ 'profess. Many are in their late teens when they are much more aware of what they are doing. so true, but there have been some
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