Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 0:47:21 GMT -5
Wads of cash for Destiny Church
Save
Sunday, 24 May 2015 EmailFacebookTwitterGoogle+
The New Zealand Herald
Facebook
Twitter
Google+
Brian Tamaki. Photo / Stephen Parker
Brian Tamaki is reminding church followers they “wanna give”.
By Lynley Bilby
Destiny Church is circulating images of wads of cash and the Twitter hashtag "#iwannagive" to followers before its annual conference. Hundreds are expected to attend next weekend's conference at the church's "City of God" headquarters in South Auckland.
Three-day attendance costs $65, and church members can also buy a $15 booklet of "personal revelatory notes" penned by the church's self-appointed bishop, Brian Tamaki.
On Friday, Tamaki tweeted to his 3344 followers a photo of wads of freshly minted $100 notes, with the message: "The Bible speaks of a Blessing (includes $$ too) that 'Overtakes You' ... time for you to be overtaken!!"
Massey University history professor Peter Lineham, who wrote the 2013 book Destiny: The Life and Times of a Self-made Apostle, told the Herald on Sunday Destiny annual conferences normally netted the controversial church leaders up to $500,000 in offerings.
He expected Destiny to again cash in, saying many followers would heed to direct money messages linking potential blessings to what they offered the church financially. "If you give generously to the church you can expect great prosperity in the coming year," he said of the philosophy. Lineham said Destiny had proven its ability to raise "truly amazing sums", adding: "It is an amazing testimony to the respect and the world within which Destiny flourishes."
Destiny Church officials would not respond to Herald on Sunday questions this week, including how much it had budgeted to receive at the "Born in the Fire" conference and for an explanation for the "iwannagive" Twitter hashtag.
Detractors on social media didn't waste any time responding to Tamaki's tweet.
One replied with a photo of money-mad Disney character Scrooge McDuck skiing down a mountain of gold, and another wrote Tamaki was "missing the message you should be spreading".
Last November the church received widespread criticism after Tamaki asked followers to "shower the stage" in money during a Sunday morning service.
He posted tweets showing parishioners carpeting the stage with $50 and $100 notes, calling it "a sweet-smelling fragrance". It is understood up to $100,000 was raised.
According to official records the church received more than $6 million in donations and $1m in Government grants in 2013.
Accounts filed with the Charities Service show the church has amassed a $20 million fortune in cash, property investments and other assets as a result of its tax exempt status.
But it has been knocked in recent years by a series of high-profile defections, including Tamaki's former right-hand man Richard Lewis, who left to set up his own church, and a rebuff by the Education Ministry to have a charter school.
Related Content
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 1:16:27 GMT -5
Wonder how many former members of my own church have been handing over their credit cards to some of these churches? When I ask them, they always deny it. Maybe this is one reason Jesus never authorized church buildings - along with the building comes the collection plate to pay for it, and staff to operate it.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on May 24, 2015 1:17:55 GMT -5
Bit like Convention grounds hey Bert What was it that Evan Jones said in his statement in 1994 about being "well off" !
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on May 24, 2015 1:22:52 GMT -5
I remember Brian Tamaki.
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 24, 2015 1:32:20 GMT -5
Brian visited me many years ago before he started Destiny. Prior to this he had a church called Rosetown. Prior to that he was a lay reader in a small mainstream church in small town NZ from which he was given the DCM. He asked me to support Rosetown by my attendance etc. I declined. I wonder Virgo, how much rolls into your church coffers annually? Similar to Destiny or more.
|
|
jj
Junior Member
Posts: 95
|
Post by jj on May 24, 2015 1:43:19 GMT -5
This is why governments should introduce a tax for churches. It might help curb the con artists using religion for significant personal financial gain.
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 24, 2015 1:49:10 GMT -5
This would only work if it included everyone and everything from Mr Pope to Mr Review.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 3:54:41 GMT -5
Brian visited me many years ago before he started Destiny. Prior to this he had a church called Rosetown. Prior to that he was a lay reader in a small mainstream church in small town NZ from which he was given the DCM. He asked me to support Rosetown by my attendance etc. I declined. I wonder Virgo, how much rolls into your church coffers annually? Similar to Destiny or more. probably ten times as much but you will never see pride taken in it
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 7:41:11 GMT -5
Bit like Convention grounds hey Bert What was it that Evan Jones said in his statement in 1994 about being "well off" ! I am sure Evan Jones was "well off." He was extremely well off - cared by all in his fellowship, and esteemed highly as Workers should be (1 Thessalonians 5:13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake.) Jesus had nothing, yet He was "well off." To those priests in his day, like priests in our day, this is impossible.
|
|
|
Post by Greg on May 24, 2015 7:52:04 GMT -5
Wads of cash - at one time, anyway - for Destiny's Child, too.
|
|
jj
Junior Member
Posts: 95
|
Post by jj on May 24, 2015 9:04:19 GMT -5
This would only work if it included everyone and everything from Mr Pope to Mr Review. True. All churches would then have to be recognised as businesses I guess and submit a yearly tax return and/or business activity statement or whatever is legally required.
|
|
|
Post by Rob Sargison on May 24, 2015 14:50:28 GMT -5
Probably any church that has ever been has leveraged their position within their communities to accumulate wealth to varying degrees. But Destiny has at the same time probably freed the government from having to spend $millions on police work, court action, prison terms and every other dollar it spends on social activity in poorer communities. Destiny would have encouraged hundreds if not thousands into leading more rewarding and productive lives in healthier communities. Certainly there is disaffection with Tamaki's self proclaimed status and possible conspicuous consumption, though there not evidence that is greater than any other successful business person, and a number have left and are leaving the church, but their lives have certainly changed for the better as a result of being part of it.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on May 24, 2015 23:00:50 GMT -5
Bit like Convention grounds hey Bert What was it that Evan Jones said in his statement in 1994 about being "well off" ! I am sure Evan Jones was "well off." He was extremely well off - cared by all in his fellowship, and esteemed highly as Workers should be (1 Thessalonians 5:13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake.) Jesus had nothing, yet He was "well off." To those priests in his day, like priests in our day, this is impossible.Would you like me post a copy of his statement Bert to confirm what he meant about being "Well Off". As to being esteemed highly sounds like worker worship to me after all the workers are not Apostles !
|
|
|
Post by withlove on May 24, 2015 23:22:29 GMT -5
Thanks for posting that, Virgo! Incredible how blatant that church is--I feel a little guilty for being amused.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on May 25, 2015 1:12:11 GMT -5
For Bert :
2007
John Evan Jones: STATES: I am 84 years old and reside at houses belonging to various members of the same Christian Faith as myself. I am presently staying at 35 Park Rd. Surry Hills. I am the Senior Minister of a fellowship that meets at various private homes through out Victoria and Tasmania. There are members of our group through out the World.
In Victoria, we have about 40 ministers of the Gospel and about 2,500 members. These people meet every Sunday and on Wednesday Evenings. At these meetings we sing Hymns, we have a prayer session and then a period when each person speaks of their experience or something that has appealed to them from the scripture.
We follow Teachings of the New Testament given to us by the Lord Jesus.
I have been a member of this group for 70 years and my parents before me were members of the same group. I have been a Minister since 1938 when I left home to do the work of an evangelist. I have been supported since I became a Minister by people of the same faith who give voluntary donations. All the people who have forsaken their occupations and have gone forth to Minister this Gospel are supported in the same way.
We have no specific name as such and have never had. There is no individual person who could claim to be the founder of our organization. We believe that this group has its origin in the mind of God before the foundation of the World and it was revealed in it's fullness in the coming of the Lord Jesus into this world and his teachings which we endeavor to follow today.
We are not a Registered Church or Body of any description. We are involved with the support of Third World Organisations. We currently have over 20 ministers in foreign fields preaching, assisting and doing evangelistic work. These evangelists are sent overseas with funds raised through the group.
Our organisation is financially well off. The funds are controlled by a Trust Fund with the Trustees being Arthur ROBINSON, Alan BIRD and Ian GUNST, who are elders of the Church. I am in charge of the Trustees and have the final say as to where the funds will be sent or spent. Once I make that decision, the Trustees withdraw the funds and give me a bank draft for the amount required in various areas as requested by me.
The Senior Minister is usually appointed on the death or mental impairment of the outgoing overseer. He is usually nominated by the outgoing Minister to the other Senior Ministers in Australia and New Zealand and approached by them to take over.
In addition to our weekly meetings, we have been gathering on the property of Mr. Fred LOWE, for one of our annual Convention for the past 20 years. We hold 5 conventions in Victoria each year. These conventions are held World wide and all run along the same lines. The purpose of these conventions is to strengthen the faith of all who believe in the teachings of Jesus. All members are there by invitation.
I have known Mr. LOWE for about 50 years and have known his daughter Heather since she was a teenage girl. I have met Geoffrey, Narelle and Stephen HENDERSON on numerous occasions at our meetings and previous conventions. I have not had any more dealings with the HENDERSON Children other than they have been at meetings where I have been declaring the Gospel.
Our organisation has no restrictions on music, dancing, television, sport, food or anything else for that matter. We do not exercise any authority over an individuals faith. However a member of our faith would not be interested in Music, Television or the like, as life is complete without them.
When sending a person overseas and they require an official document we use the letterhead of "CHRISTIAN CONVENTIONS" underlined by "REPRESENTING ASSEMBLIES OF CHRISTIANS ASSUMING THIS NAME ONLY"
I am aware that Narelle and Stephen HENDERSON are believed to have committed suicide and have left a note stating in essence that they did it rather than go to the convention. I cannot for the life of me think of any reason why they would do such a thing. Signed_______________ John Evan Jones Statement taken and signature witnessed to me at Surry Hills at 1.27 pm on the 29th of November, 1994. ___________________ G. R. MATTHEWS Detective Sergeant 20590 I hereby acknowledge that this statement is true and correct and I make it in the belief that a person making a false statement in the circumstances is liable to the penalties of perjury. Signed_______________ John Evan Jones Acknowledgment made and signature witnessed by me at Surry Hills at 1.28 pm on the 29th of November, 1994. ___________________ G. R. MATTHEWS Detective Sergeant 20590 [Copy of signed statement in TTT files.]
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 25, 2015 3:40:04 GMT -5
Our organisation has no restrictions on music, dancing, television, sport, food or anything else for that matter. We do not exercise any authority over an individuals faith
This is so funny, does he really expect people to believe that statement.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on May 25, 2015 4:02:20 GMT -5
Pretty good isn't it Curly ! So we could have had TV's & Music !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 4:13:14 GMT -5
Our organisation has no restrictions on music, dancing, television, sport, food or anything else for that matter. We do not exercise any authority over an individuals faith This is so funny, does he really expect people to believe that statement. can't say i have felt any restrictions or any exercise of authority over my faith other than which you have conveniently left out[ However a member of our faith would not be interested in Music, Television or the like, as life is complete without them.] Christ is all in all
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on May 25, 2015 6:05:31 GMT -5
So why do so many people now have laptops to play movies if they are not interested in these things Virgo ?
|
|
|
Post by snow on May 25, 2015 11:56:30 GMT -5
Our organisation has no restrictions on music, dancing, television, sport, food or anything else for that matter. We do not exercise any authority over an individuals faith This is so funny, does he really expect people to believe that statement. Yes, no kidding. What bubble does he live in. When I was in the group they definitely exercised authority over individuals and if they didn't why was it that they broke off radio antennas from cars that had radios? Why did those who had the Sunday meeting in their home not have one anymore if they were found out to have a TV hidden away somewhere?
|
|
|
Post by withlove on May 25, 2015 13:18:03 GMT -5
Our organisation has no restrictions on music, dancing, television, sport, food or anything else for that matter. We do not exercise any authority over an individuals faith This is so funny, does he really expect people to believe that statement. Yes, no kidding. What bubble does he live in. When I was in the group they definitely exercised authority over individuals and if they didn't why was it that they broke off radio antennas from cars that had radios? Why did those who had the Sunday meeting in their home not have one anymore if they were found out to have a TV hidden away somewhere? Yes, really. Wonder when that do-what-you-like policy started? And if anyone else wrote contradictory letters? I knew plenty of homes that had hidden tv's and radios and also meetings. The people brave enough to have those in the open now are not granted meetings but also are not chided...workers know they won't win the argument I guess, but they will have to change the meeting policy or they will run out of options.
|
|
|
Post by snow on May 25, 2015 13:34:49 GMT -5
Yes, no kidding. What bubble does he live in. When I was in the group they definitely exercised authority over individuals and if they didn't why was it that they broke off radio antennas from cars that had radios? Why did those who had the Sunday meeting in their home not have one anymore if they were found out to have a TV hidden away somewhere? Yes, really. Wonder when that do-what-you-like policy started? And if anyone else wrote contradictory letters? I knew plenty of homes that had hidden tv's and radios and also meetings. The people brave enough to have those in the open now are not granted meetings but also are not chided...workers know they won't win the argument I guess, but they will have to change the meeting policy or they will run out of options. My parents had the Sunday meeting in their home, but I'll tell you this, the radio was out of sight when meetings or friends, or workers were around.
|
|
|
Post by withlove on May 25, 2015 13:37:12 GMT -5
Before anyone says there isn't a policy, I was told directly by a brother worker that there was. I didn't rat anyone out. What a sad environment.
|
|
|
Post by withlove on May 25, 2015 13:41:09 GMT -5
Pretty good isn't it Curly ! So we could have had TV's & Music ! Oh, but we wouldn't, because that would be emptiness to us. What a clever little trick there..."we won't tell you no, but if you are satisfied in Christ you won't anyway." Such freedom of choice.
|
|
|
Post by withlove on May 25, 2015 13:45:21 GMT -5
For Bert : 2007 John Evan Jones: STATES: We are involved with the support of Third World Organisations. Signed_______________ John Evan Jones Uh. What? Which organizations are those?
|
|
|
Post by snow on May 25, 2015 13:47:40 GMT -5
Pretty good isn't it Curly ! So we could have had TV's & Music ! Oh, but we wouldn't, because that would be emptiness to us. What a clever little trick there..."we won't tell you no, but if you are satisfied in Christ you won't anyway." Such freedom of choice. Yes guilt and shame are pretty major motivators and they are used by religions to manipulate their members very well.
|
|
|
Post by withlove on May 25, 2015 13:52:51 GMT -5
Oh, but we wouldn't, because that would be emptiness to us. What a clever little trick there..."we won't tell you no, but if you are satisfied in Christ you won't anyway." Such freedom of choice. Yes guilt and shame are pretty major motivators and they are used by religions to manipulate their members very well. Agreed. And then tell you that only God can give you the power to endure through these restrictions which they created themselves.
|
|
|
Post by withlove on May 25, 2015 16:53:06 GMT -5
Our organisation has no restrictions on music, dancing, television, sport, food or anything else for that matter. We do not exercise any authority over an individuals faith This is so funny, does he really expect people to believe that statement. Yes, no kidding. What bubble does he live in. When I was in the group they definitely exercised authority over individuals and if they didn't why was it that they broke off radio antennas from cars that had radios? Why did those who had the Sunday meeting in their home not have one anymore if they were found out to have a TV hidden away somewhere? Remember when cars started coming out with retracting antennas? There was an uneasiness about that...if you had a new enough model you could get away with a car radio, but people would wonder about you. And if the antenna was up while you were driving, you were being a poor example of a child of God. Eventually the antenna issue was forgotten, but the only acceptable thing to play was a cassette or cd of workers singing the hymns. ONLY the approved hymns.
|
|