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Post by BobWilliston on May 26, 2015 1:49:47 GMT -5
So was that a good answer?
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Post by BobWilliston on May 26, 2015 1:54:13 GMT -5
why should I? you are the one who opened your writing gob [ So what about the homosexual workers that are preaching ? ( By the way I have nothing against homosexuals ) and then you can't substantiate what you print, only one conclusion can be made from it, it was a complete lie
I wouldn't tell you the names of the homosexual workers I know of either. They're no more noteworthy to strangers than any of the fat old lady sister workers.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 26, 2015 2:22:32 GMT -5
why should I? you are the one who opened your writing gob [ So what about the homosexual workers that are preaching ? ( By the way I have nothing against homosexuals ) and then you can't substantiate what you print, only one conclusion can be made from it, it was a complete lie
Virgo, are you saying I am lying ? Like I said do your own research. Why would I give names Virgo ? As I have stated I have nothing against people being gay, the reason I asked the question was because of the comments against same sex marriage by people who are not even aware of what is happening in their own church !
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Post by Roselyn T on May 26, 2015 2:24:03 GMT -5
I agree rational, also as I have said I personally have nothing against gay people, but I do have a problem with people saying gay people shouldn't have equal rights etc, yet they are not aware of what happens in their own church ! more lie'sSo are you aware of what is happening in Australia, Virgo ?
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Post by maryhig on May 26, 2015 2:40:44 GMT -5
There is no lesbian slant to this verse at all! How have you judged maternal love to be the same as sexual love? And how does cleave mean having intercourse with each other? Definition cleave to adhere closely; stick; cling (usually followed by to). How is this gay? You can see clearly that Ruth loves Naomi like a mother, you've completely twisted that in the wrong way, you and by the sound of it, many others through the centuries! Did you even notice that I have stated that I do not believe there is a lesbian slant that could be supported? You seemed to want to continue discussing it though so I decided to go along. Consider it practice! Yes I did, so why bring it up in the first place then. If you don't believe there is a lesbian slant in it?
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Post by Roselyn T on May 26, 2015 2:42:59 GMT -5
why should I? you are the one who opened your writing gob [ So what about the homosexual workers that are preaching ? ( By the way I have nothing against homosexuals ) and then you can't substantiate what you print, only one conclusion can be made from it, it was a complete lie
I suppose you believe all the workers are celibate too Virgo !
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Post by maryhig on May 26, 2015 2:46:05 GMT -5
Matt 10, One of you're questions was. Is there any reason why your interpretation of the bible is any more valid than those who interpret it differently? And I answered, How can you interpret it differently when is says clearly man should not sleep with man, and marriage is between a man and woman? It says it loud and clear! In Leviticus 18 and 20, and Romans 1. I don't remember writing that on this board before matt10? Are we talking about the same bible?
Yes, Maryhig, you did write that before. Here is the copy of that post. maryhig Royal Member ***** Ireland 1 God 0 How can you interpret it differently when is says clearly man should not sleep with man, and marriage is between a man and woman? It says it loud and clear! In Leviticus 18 and 20, and Romans 1.
Yes that was to show matt10 that I had answered one of his questions previously!
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Post by maryhig on May 26, 2015 3:01:03 GMT -5
Yes but wouldn't all those different people be getting married before their God? No. They didn't have the Catholic church around to tell them it was a sacrament. Anyway, which of their gods would you be talking about. And I hate anchovies -- doesn't mean I have no need of pizza. Of course, but not everyone is in your box. People in other houses are every bit as human as the ones in your house. Why did you get married -- I'm just assuming you are married. All marriages are civil ceremonies -- the fact that some of them are solemnized by clergy doesn't change that. The proof rests in the fact that all divorces are granted by civil authorities. No one is asking for a marriage under the blessing of a god. But if the state requires that kind of marriage, what difference does the blessing make anyway -- take the marriage certificate and ignore the blessing, the state cares nothing about the blessing, just the marriage certificate. That doesn't apply only to atheists. It happens all the time in states which mandate that only clergymen perform marriages. I know thousands of people who were married by clergymen in whom they had absolutely no faith whatsoever -- my parents and one of my daughters being two of them. The word "god" was never mentioned at our marriage (48 years ago), and neither was our other daughter's. How can you call those people hypocritical? How can you denigrate a marriage that is legal and moral? If that kind of marriage is hypocritical, then it's legal fraud for a clergyman to take money for blessing people he knows have no use for his blessing. Absolutely, those clergymen are fraudsters! Just like in many other religions! Money money money, Jesus said take no money for doing Gods work! They charge for their time in funerals, weddings, christenings, the collection boxes go round, here they've turned their church grounds into pay and display car parks, they hire out the rooms for various occasions buy and sell inside to make more money. Charge to have an organ played out occasions. Etc etc. And the homeless are outside! Where's God and Jesus in that? Apparently some of the top men in the church of England sit in the house of lords! Well fair play at least they are taking the lowest seat
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Post by maryhig on May 26, 2015 3:06:37 GMT -5
I respect God over man. Including myself! My feelings come last to his! I put God first! But with that comes my love for my fellow man, including atheists, anyone who's gay, Christians all religions any colour skin, all the people in the world. I care for everyone! When I was working, I used to speak to people in work about God. I spoke to a woman who was straight and has 3 children, she dismissed me and told me I was mad. I also spoke to someone who was gay. He listened and asked me quite a few different things. I spoke to him many times. And my heart melted for him! He had a soft gentle heart, and God looks at the heart! But I also believe in the living God of the bible, and the God I believe in says marriage is between a man and a woman. So that's what I believe is right! I'm a sinner, and I'm nothing, I'm only stating what my God says is right by him. And I believe in him with all my heart! What is your sin? I have many, I hope God has forgiven me!
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 3:20:57 GMT -5
That doesn't make sense, unless you're talking about two different people. I said: 1. Are you saying that you could name someone currently in the work in Australia who is a practising homosexual? 2. Or someone whose inclination would be for a same-sex relationship but who is practising celibacy? 3. Or is this just a whisper-campaign? So the same person could not be a practising homosexual and yet be practising celibacy. I find it difficult to believe in statement 1. If there was any proof of wrong-doing by a worker it seems to me that there would be many people who would be quick to report it, so it wouldn't be an on-going situation. Yes Felicity 2 or more different people. Yes to number 1. Yes to number 2. Do you know how many years it has taken for the truth to come out about workers that have committed CSA in Australia, Noel Harvey for example: It was in the 70's that he abused girls it didn't come out until 1999/2000 so the idea that people would be quick to report these things is wrong. Just because you want to think something doesn't happen doesn't mean it doesn't. Well I'm sorry, but I just don't believe it. I can't find anyone with a connection in Australia who knows what you're talking about or agrees with what you've said. Any worker found not to be practising celibacy would be removed instantly, and gossip gets around faster than good news, so you can be sure if there was any foundation to these rumours something would have been done about it by now. Just because you want to think something happens doesn't mean it does Yes, I've heard about Noel Harvey many times. Any time CSA is mentioned in Australia his name comes up, and his is the only workers name that comes up, which suggests that he is the only one. People are much quicker to report things nowadays than they were back in the 1970's.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 26, 2015 5:30:27 GMT -5
Felicity just because I don't go to meetings anymore does NOT mean I don't know what is happening ! To state this shows how much you really are unaware of "Any time CSA is mentioned in Australia his name comes up, and his is the only workers name that comes up, which suggests that he is the only one". Over the last 3 years in Victoria Ernie Barry has been charged and just last year Chris Chandler was charged. If you don't believe this is right maybe go back over some old threads ! There was another older Victorian worker sent to Qld that should NOT have been. www.theage.com.au/victoria/former-sect-leader-pleads-guilty-to-child-sex-charges-20140320-3562h.html
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Post by fixit on May 26, 2015 5:32:26 GMT -5
You could say the same about genocide, but that doesn't make it right or moral. There are acts of god that are immoral? I don't think so.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 5:35:43 GMT -5
Felicity just because I don't go to meetings anymore does NOT mean I don't know what is happening ! To state this shows how much you really are unaware of "Any time CSA is mentioned in Australia his name comes up, and his is the only workers name that comes up, which suggests that he is the only one". Over the last 3 years in Victoria Ernie Barry has been charged and just last year Chris Chandler was charged. If you don't believe this is right maybe go back over some old threads ! There was another older Victorian worker sent to Qld that should NOT have been. www.theage.com.au/victoria/former-sect-leader-pleads-guilty-to-child-sex-charges-20140320-3562h.htmlSorry, I have heard those two names also, just didn't realise they were Australian. However, nobody is backing up your claim that there is an active homosexual in the work in Australia at the present time.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 26, 2015 5:37:45 GMT -5
Who are you talking to Felicity ? Someone who lives where ?
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Post by rational on May 26, 2015 5:38:26 GMT -5
why should I? you are the one who opened your writing gob [ So what about the homosexual workers that are preaching ? ( By the way I have nothing against homosexuals ) and then you can't substantiate what you print, only one conclusion can be made from it, it was a complete lie
@virgo, I could ask you a number of questions about what you write and you could not substantiate them. Would it help, in that case, if I resorted to calling you a liar because you could not prove your claims?
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Post by snow on May 26, 2015 17:22:57 GMT -5
I think what you are advocating interesting. The 2x2's have civil marriages. They get married before a judge. They aren't married before God or a church wedding. They get all the rights of a wedding even though it wasn't performed in a church, in Canada at least. But they are not married before God, but a Judge in a court house usually. In some jurisdictions any normal person can be licensed by the state to perform marriages. My niece was married in BC, and one of the friends officiated. Apparently he has been called upon to perform a lot of marriages among the friends there. I learned a couple of years ago that in the state of New Jersey the law doesn't permit anyone but an ordained clergyman to perform marriages, and there was a movement to have that law changed. So they would marry people who were not believers too? How else could atheists get married then?
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Post by Roselyn T on May 26, 2015 19:37:05 GMT -5
Felicity just because I don't go to meetings anymore does NOT mean I don't know what is happening ! To state this shows how much you really are unaware of "Any time CSA is mentioned in Australia his name comes up, and his is the only workers name that comes up, which suggests that he is the only one". Over the last 3 years in Victoria Ernie Barry has been charged and just last year Chris Chandler was charged. If you don't believe this is right maybe go back over some old threads ! There was another older Victorian worker sent to Qld that should NOT have been. www.theage.com.au/victoria/former-sect-leader-pleads-guilty-to-child-sex-charges-20140320-3562h.htmlSorry, I have heard those two names also, just didn't realise they were Australian. However, nobody is backing up your claim that there is an active homosexual in the work in Australia at the present time. Felicity do you really think that anyone who still goes to meeting is going to say there is an active homosexual in the work !!
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Post by kittens on May 26, 2015 20:10:31 GMT -5
Sorry, I have heard those two names also, just didn't realise they were Australian. However, nobody is backing up your claim that there is an active homosexual in the work in Australia at the present time. Felicity do you really think that anyone who still goes to meeting is going to say there is an active homosexual in the work !! 1
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Post by fixit on May 26, 2015 20:16:17 GMT -5
I could name 4 ex workers and 6 bishops/professing men who have committed CSA but have not been brought to trial because the tribulation the complainants would have to go through would be unbearable - right from having to testify in court to the extreme unbelief and criticism they would have to face from the other friends and workers. To be called a liar when you are telling the truth is a terribly demoralising thing especially about such a delicate matter. It's just easier to keep your mouth shut, try to get on with your life and hope God deals out the correct punishment. Have a great respect for those who do report CSA. They are very strong people. Authorities are getting better at prosecuting CSA offenders and reducing the burden on victims. I too have a great respect for those who report CSA.
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Post by rational on May 26, 2015 21:35:07 GMT -5
I'm not going to name names but I can back up Roselyn in some of this. [/p]
Not sure if there are any active homosexuals in the work at the moment but do know of one who left the work years ago. Nice person too. Sorry to see them leave.
Yes I definitely know of one current senior worker who has 'fornicated' with someone at least once since being in the work. I was her flatmate.
I could name 4 ex workers and 6 bishops/professing men who... [/quote] This is all starting to sound a little like Tail-Gunner Joe! "I have here in my hand a list of 205 — a list of names that..." "Red Scare" and the "Lavender Scare". Not a shining moment for the US. Is someone going to play the part of Welch?
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Post by BobWilliston on May 26, 2015 23:29:41 GMT -5
In some jurisdictions any normal person can be licensed by the state to perform marriages. My niece was married in BC, and one of the friends officiated. Apparently he has been called upon to perform a lot of marriages among the friends there. I learned a couple of years ago that in the state of New Jersey the law doesn't permit anyone but an ordained clergyman to perform marriages, and there was a movement to have that law changed. So they would marry people who were not believers too? How else could atheists get married then? Most clergymen will marry anyone who will pay the fee -- no matter what they believe. As long as they have a corner on the marriage market, they have a political lever against marriages they don't approve of. I don't know if it's the same now in Norway, but a good Norwegian friend of mine said that in Norway anyone who wanted to be married had to be married in the Lutheran church. But in France, the state doesn't recognize a marriage by a clergyman. Good Catholics are first married by a priest, and then go to a court office or mayor's office or such and get married by in a legal ceremony. It is also the case that the US government doesn't recognize all legal marriages performed in all other countries. And is some countries, it is illegal for non-citizens to get married in the country.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 26, 2015 23:36:18 GMT -5
There are acts of god that are immoral? I don't think so. Ah -- so even when god orders something that's not right, it is moral that god ordered it?? You're sounding like Dale Shultz now.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 26, 2015 23:38:33 GMT -5
Felicity just because I don't go to meetings anymore does NOT mean I don't know what is happening ! To state this shows how much you really are unaware of "Any time CSA is mentioned in Australia his name comes up, and his is the only workers name that comes up, which suggests that he is the only one". Over the last 3 years in Victoria Ernie Barry has been charged and just last year Chris Chandler was charged. If you don't believe this is right maybe go back over some old threads ! There was another older Victorian worker sent to Qld that should NOT have been. www.theage.com.au/victoria/former-sect-leader-pleads-guilty-to-child-sex-charges-20140320-3562h.htmlSorry, I have heard those two names also, just didn't realise they were Australian. However, nobody is backing up your claim that there is an active homosexual in the work in Australia at the present time. Who's going to tell on them? There's a greater chance of the squealer getting canned than the fornicator being prosecuted.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 26, 2015 23:43:13 GMT -5
I'm not going to name names but I can back up Roselyn in some of this. [/p]
Not sure if there are any active homosexuals in the work at the moment but do know of one who left the work years ago. Nice person too. Sorry to see them leave.
Yes I definitely know of one current senior worker who has 'fornicated' with someone at least once since being in the work. I was her flatmate.
I could name 4 ex workers and 6 bishops/professing men who... [/quote] This is all starting to sound a little like Tail-Gunner Joe! "I have here in my hand a list of 205 — a list of names that..." "Red Scare" and the "Lavender Scare". Not a shining moment for the US. Is someone going to play the part of Welch? [/quote] I think I'm culturally deprived on this one. Who is Welch?
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Post by fixit on May 26, 2015 23:51:15 GMT -5
Ah -- so even when god orders something that's not right, it is moral that god ordered it?? You're sounding like Dale Shultz now. I don't know where you got that from.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 0:35:50 GMT -5
why should I? you are the one who opened your writing gob [ So what about the homosexual workers that are preaching ? ( By the way I have nothing against homosexuals ) and then you can't substantiate what you print, only one conclusion can be made from it, it was a complete lie
@virgo, I could ask you a number of questions about what you write and you could not substantiate them. Would it help, in that case, if I resorted to calling you a liar because you could not prove your claims? call me what you like i don't care, i have been called nastier things than that on here
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Post by BobWilliston on May 27, 2015 0:48:47 GMT -5
Ah -- so even when god orders something that's not right, it is moral that god ordered it?? You're sounding like Dale Shultz now. I don't know where you got that from. Sorry - I think I confused yours with something Wally said. Dale Schultz believes that it is always right to do what a worker says, whether it is the right thing to do or not.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 27, 2015 2:21:18 GMT -5
@virgo, I could ask you a number of questions about what you write and you could not substantiate them. Would it help, in that case, if I resorted to calling you a liar because you could not prove your claims? call me what you like i don't care, i have been called nastier things than that on here OK, virgo! Here goes! YOU ARE A LIAR, LIAR!! PANTS ON FIRE!
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