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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 8:23:57 GMT -5
Luke 21:24 " They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." America is perhaps the last major outpost of Christianity in "Western" societies. This article in theweek.com was especially sad to read (and no, I am not gloating because the same decline is happening in my church too.)The United States is still the most Christian nation on Earth, by raw numbers: 173 million U.S. adults, according to estimates by the Pew Research Center. If you've read about Pew's new snapshot of "America's Changing Religious Landscape," though, you know that there isn't much good news for America's Christian denominations. Quite the opposite, in fact. The headline number is the sharp drop in the percentage of Americans who self-identify as Christian since Pew's last major survey in 2007, from 78.4 percent to 70.6 percent in 2014, an eight-point plunge. If Pew's numbers are accurate, there are some five million fewer Christians in the U.S. than seven years ago.And that's not the worst data point. First, the number of "nones" — atheists, agnostics, and can't-be-bothereds, mostly — has jumped to 22.8 percent of the U.S. population, from 16.1 percent, and those numbers come from all age cohorts and regional and racial demographics. Second, the younger generations are notably less Christian than the group above them: 36 percent of the 18-to-24 group are religiously unaffiliated, tapering down to 9 percent of those 65 and older. Most of the 19 million new "nones" came from Christian churches. Getting new members is important for any Christian denomination, but keeping congregants in the fold is essential. As my colleague Michael Brendan Dougherty argues, it's easier to revive lapsed churchgoers than mass-convert new ones. Even with religion-switching common, people are still more likely to stay in the faith tradition they were raised in, including no religion at all. If millennials drop away from Christianity, it's hard to see how Christian churches can make up for the accumulative losses. theweek.com/articles/555651/how-americas-churches-pull-death-spiral
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 20:53:11 GMT -5
Quote - "...78.4 percent to 70.6 percent in 2014, an eight-point plunge."
That's the Western standard of about one percent church decline per year. Without taking on board the fact that most of these church people are old, can anyone calculate at what point America's last church closes its doors?
Assuming the trend doesn't accelerate it would be sometime within a hundred years?
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 20:57:55 GMT -5
Quote - " ...78.4 percent to 70.6 percent in 2014, an eight-point plunge." That's the Western standard of about one percent church decline per year. Without taking on board the fact that most of these church people are old, can anyone calculate at what point America's last church closes its doors? Assuming the trend doesn't accelerate it would be sometime within a hundred years? I think it will accelerate as time moves forward...
Mat_24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 21:02:42 GMT -5
In former generations people could preach what they believed is the Truth and leave it for their communities to measure the worth of their words against the bible and what their own church holds to be truth. But at some point preachers won't be able to do that because there will be no knowledge of the bible, and few churches left. You could mention the name of Jesus and others might think he's a talk show host, rather than saying "Well some say this, and some say that about Jesus."
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Post by fixit on May 22, 2015 23:08:57 GMT -5
If folks got back to the simple teaching of Jesus in the Bible it would be more meaningful than the mumbo-jumbo preached by fundamentalist Christians.
Many Christians are Biblians more than they are Christians.
Mahatma Gandhi — 'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 0:02:49 GMT -5
If folks got back to the simple teaching of Jesus in the Bible it would be more meaningful than the mumbo-jumbo preached by fundamentalist Christians. Many Christians are Biblians more than they are Christians. Mahatma Gandhi — 'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'sort of like what the priest said in the artical on the priest convention
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Post by Gene on May 23, 2015 7:07:53 GMT -5
You know, what concerns me about this is the question of what will replace the positive aspects of Christianity in its leadership role in communities. One can look at countries where Christianity has already faded away for an indication. In some cases, they've done quite well; for example, Switzerland, with its low crime rate, high "happiness" quotient, high standard of living, high quality of life.
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Post by snow on May 23, 2015 11:54:40 GMT -5
You know, what concerns me about this is the question of what will replace the positive aspects of Christianity in its leadership role in communities. One can look at countries where Christianity has already faded away for an indication. In some cases, they've done quite well; for example, Switzerland, with its low crime rate, high "happiness" quotient, high standard of living, high quality of life. Yes all those positives, what on earth will we have left to complain about!?
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Post by fixit on May 23, 2015 16:23:21 GMT -5
You know, what concerns me about this is the question of what will replace the positive aspects of Christianity in its leadership role in communities. One can look at countries where Christianity has already faded away for an indication. In some cases, they've done quite well; for example, Switzerland, with its low crime rate, high "happiness" quotient, high standard of living, high quality of life. I agree. I've been jumped on in the past for suggesting that our Judeo-Christian culture has contributed immensely to the prosperity and stability of the world.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 23, 2015 16:29:47 GMT -5
You know, what concerns me about this is the question of what will replace the positive aspects of Christianity in its leadership role in communities. One can look at countries where Christianity has already faded away for an indication. In some cases, they've done quite well; for example, Switzerland, with its low crime rate, high "happiness" quotient, high standard of living, high quality of life. I agree. I've been jumped on in the past for suggesting that our Judeo-Christian culture has contributed immensely to the prosperity and stability of the world. Our Judeo-Christian culture has ALSO contributed immensely to the pain and chaos of the world.
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Post by Gene on May 23, 2015 18:21:54 GMT -5
You know, what concerns me about this is the question of what will replace the positive aspects of Christianity in its leadership role in communities. One can look at countries where Christianity has already faded away for an indication. In some cases, they've done quite well; for example, Switzerland, with its low crime rate, high "happiness" quotient, high standard of living, high quality of life. I agree. I've been jumped on in the past for suggesting that our Judeo-Christian culture has contributed immensely to the prosperity and stability of the world. That may be true; I don't really know. I was thinking more of such things as the faith community calming the recent Baltimore riots and the ordered, social experience I had growing up.
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Post by emy on May 23, 2015 21:05:48 GMT -5
You know, what concerns me about this is the question of what will replace the positive aspects of Christianity in its leadership role in communities. One can look at countries where Christianity has already faded away for an indication. In some cases, they've done quite well; for example, Switzerland, with its low crime rate, high "happiness" quotient, high standard of living, high quality of life. The mountains and snow keep the riff-raff out? (You've heard the saying about ND? Forty below keeps the riff-raff out!)
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Post by Gene on May 23, 2015 21:09:59 GMT -5
You know, what concerns me about this is the question of what will replace the positive aspects of Christianity in its leadership role in communities. One can look at countries where Christianity has already faded away for an indication. In some cases, they've done quite well; for example, Switzerland, with its low crime rate, high "happiness" quotient, high standard of living, high quality of life. The mountains and snow keep the riff-raff out? (You've heard the saying about ND? Forty below keeps the riff-raff out!) I had not heard that saying about North Dakota, but I like it!
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 7:51:31 GMT -5
The retreat of Christianity seems to mirror the advances of Islam, doesn't it? Some observers have noted that. Large numbers of people in Western countries have found an energy in Islam's beliefs long lacking in Christian thinking.
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Post by Gene on May 24, 2015 7:56:16 GMT -5
The retreat of Christianity seems to mirror the advances of Islam, doesn't it? Some observers have noted that. Large numbers of people in Western countries have found an energy in Islam's beliefs long lacking in Christian thinking. That is one of the concerns I have about a potential vacuum left by the retreat of Christianity. There's some evidence the vacuum will be filled by something more along the lines of secular humanism rather than Islam. The vote in Ireland yesterday would indicate such. But it's certainly a question mark at this point.
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Post by emerald on May 24, 2015 8:15:16 GMT -5
The retreat of Christianity seems to mirror the advances of Islam, doesn't it? Some observers have noted that. Large numbers of people in Western countries have found an energy in Islam's beliefs long lacking in Christian thinking. That is one of the concerns I have about a potential vacuum left by the retreat of Christianity. There's some evidence the vacuum will be filled by something more along the lines of secular humanism rather than Islam. The vote in Ireland yesterday would indicate such. But it's certainly a question mark at this point. I don't think too much can be read into the Irish vote on this score, simply because Islam doesn't have much of a presence in Ireland, North or South. In the UK where there are significant numbers, it has a very vocal presence and the religion appears to be growing and certainly it's managing to radicalise young people in a way Christianity does not. I'd agree with Bert that the advance of Islam seems to mirror the retreat of Christianity.
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Post by Gene on May 24, 2015 9:06:16 GMT -5
True.
On the other hand, in some western countries where the decline of Christianity has already happened, there are concerted efforts to prevent the rise of Islam. One example: Switzerland, which banned construction of new minarets at mosques in 2009. Three were built before the ban, and they survive. Also banned: public calls to prayer. Plenty of church steeples remain, and their bells still ring, probably because they are seen now as more cultural than religious.
Similarly, consider the burqa ban. I know, it's couched as a "security" issue at times, women's rights issue, etc.... but it's also an effective means of suppressing public expression of private faith.
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hberry
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Post by hberry on May 24, 2015 9:31:14 GMT -5
You know, what concerns me about this is the question of what will replace the positive aspects of Christianity in its leadership role in communities. One can look at countries where Christianity has already faded away for an indication. In some cases, they've done quite well; for example, Switzerland, with its low crime rate, high "happiness" quotient, high standard of living, high quality of life. The mountains and snow keep the riff-raff out? (You've heard the saying about ND? Forty below keeps the riff-raff out!) The way things are going with the ice cap melt off, you might have some polar bears investigating your 40 below!!!! But surely they wouldn't be 'riff-raff'
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Post by emerald on May 24, 2015 10:55:05 GMT -5
True. On the other hand, in some western countries where the decline of Christianity has already happened, there are concerted efforts to prevent the rise of Islam. One example: Switzerland, which banned construction of new minarets at mosques in 2009. Three were built before the ban, and they survive. Also banned: public calls to prayer. Plenty of church steeples remain, and their bells still ring, probably because they are seen now as more cultural than religious. Similarly, consider the burqa ban. I know, it's couched as a "security" issue at times, women's rights issue, etc.... but it's also an effective means of suppressing public expression of private faith. All true at the present time but with the influx immigrants into the EU, most of whom seem to be Muslim, coupled with the fact they seem to be the only ethnic group that's reproducing at a rate much greater than indigenous populations, these efforts are only a temporary measure. There are those that would argue to stop the immigrants now, is like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. Of course there are others that say it's xenophobic scaremongering but statistics speak for themselves. FWIW, I like the idea of a burka. I can wear my pyjamas all day, not wash my hair for a week, have a pimple outbreak and nobody would know. Islam's not all bad.
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