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Post by fixit on May 26, 2015 15:15:15 GMT -5
I think there is some truth to what Maryhig is saying, but also that Jesus will also return visibly, in a glorified body, at his second coming. Yes, Jesus may return spiritually into our heats. But, I think it's pretty clear in the bible that he'll also return literally in the future. It would be a very busy glorified body, to be seen by every eye - even those who pierced him. Do you believe all this is literal and physical?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 15:34:44 GMT -5
Do we believe God can put a body back together than has been cremated? Our old bodies will have returned to the dust, whether buried or cremated it makes no difference. We won't be needing them again. However, considering what God did with the valley of dry bones in Ezekiel, it's obviously not beyond his power to put the body back together again
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Post by maryhig on May 26, 2015 16:01:53 GMT -5
I think there is some truth to what Maryhig is saying, but also that Jesus will also return visibly, in a glorified body, at his second coming. Yes, Jesus may return spiritually into our heats. But, I think it's pretty clear in the bible that he'll also return literally in the future. It would be a very busy glorified body, to be seen by every eye - even those who pierced him. Do you believe all this is literal and physical? Yes and if it's all literal then for all those who had pierced him to see him, he would have had to have had his second coming very soon after he died! Because they started dying a few years after Jesus did!
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Post by fixit on May 26, 2015 16:21:13 GMT -5
Of course we do Fixit. You under estimate the power of God and are limiting God by you own mind. After all He is God. He created the world so why could he not put a cremated body back together again. Many Christianns have not believed in cremation so that there would be a body for the resurrection. It says the Graves will open and the dead in Christ will rise to meet him in the air when he returns, so why would that be unless out bodies rise to meet him in the air. But they will be new bodies changed in a twinkling of the eye. Do you not believe that everyone will see him when he comes. How is that any less believeable than God being everywhere? If you believe God can put a cremated body back together, then you can believe that Jesus in heaven can be spirit and not man.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 16:22:56 GMT -5
The bible is pretty clear about this stuff. Either one believes it, or not. Jesus did physically rise from the dead. But, it was an immortal body. It's called a spiritual body. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven, but flesh and spirit can. His blood was drained on the cross. And yes, those who pierced him WILL see him. The Church will be raised in spiritualized bodies, and the rest of mankind will be raised in physical bodies (they wont be immortal.) How 'every eye' will see him doesn't matter to me. It doesn't specifically say how they will all see him, whether it's him coming in the clouds, or whether it's some time after that, when they will have to stand before him in judgment. I don't know, and it doesn't matter at this point. Questions about this stuff could go on for eternity. Everyone has to decide whether it's true to them or not. Those who raise objections don't rock my world at all.
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Post by fixit on May 26, 2015 16:23:54 GMT -5
Do you not believe that everyone will see him when he comes. How is that any less believeable than God being everywhere? Is God everywhere in a human body?
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Post by maryhig on May 26, 2015 16:29:45 GMT -5
The bible is pretty clear about this stuff. Either one believes it, or not. Jesus did physically rise from the dead. But, it was an immortal body. It's called a spiritual body. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven, but flesh and spirit can. His blood was drained on the cross. And yes, those who pierced him WILL see him. The Church will be raised in spiritualized bodies, and the rest of mankind will be raised in physical bodies (they wont be immortal.) How 'every eye' will see him doesn't matter to me. It doesn't specifically say how they will all see him, whether it's him coming in the clouds, or whether it's some time after that, when they will have to stand before him in judgment. I don't know, and it doesn't matter at this point. Questions about this stuff could go on for eternity. Everyone has to decide whether it's true to them or not. Those who raise objections don't rock my world at all. So when it says in the bible that Christ is within us, is he in our hearts in flesh or spirit? It says spirit in the bible but some people on here seem to believe that he's in his flesh in heaven?
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Post by fixit on May 26, 2015 16:31:20 GMT -5
The bible is pretty clear about this stuff. Either one believes it, or not. Jesus did physically rise from the dead. But, it was an immortal body. It's called a spiritual body. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven, but flesh and spirit can. His blood was drained on the cross. And yes, those who pierced him WILL see him. The Church will be raised in spiritualized bodies, and the rest of mankind will be raised in physical bodies (they wont be immortal.) How 'every eye' will see him doesn't matter to me. It doesn't specifically say how they will all see him, whether it's him coming in the clouds, or whether it's some time after that, when they will have to stand before him in judgment. I don't know, and it doesn't matter at this point. Questions about this stuff could go on for eternity. Everyone has to decide whether it's true to them or not. Those who raise objections don't rock my world at all. Where do religious wars come from? Is it not that various groups interpret the bible differently, yet say "the bible is pretty clear about this stuff"?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 16:31:43 GMT -5
The bible is pretty clear about this stuff. Either one believes it, or not. Jesus did physically rise from the dead. But, it was an immortal body. It's called a spiritual body. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven, but flesh and spirit can. His blood was drained on the cross. And yes, those who pierced him WILL see him. The Church will be raised in spiritualized bodies, and the rest of mankind will be raised in physical bodies (they wont be immortal.) How 'every eye' will see him doesn't matter to me. It doesn't specifically say how they will all see him, whether it's him coming in the clouds, or whether it's some time after that, when they will have to stand before him in judgment. I don't know, and it doesn't matter at this point. Questions about this stuff could go on for eternity. Everyone has to decide whether it's true to them or not. Those who raise objections don't rock my world at all. One passage that Christians should read is John 20:26-31. The lord appeared to the Disciples after his resurrection. The doors were locked, but Jesus suddenly "stood in the midst of them." He showed them his body - the pierced hands and his side. In Luke 24:39 Jesus presented himself to the disciples and said "..for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have." So, he wasn't a spirit. His body was physical, but it was glorified. One doesn't have to understand this to believe it. Whatever the composition of Jesus' body right now, the fact is, he still have the nail prints in his hands, and the gash in his side. He said "a spirit hath not flesh and bone as ye see me have." So, he wasn't a spirit.
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Post by fixit on May 26, 2015 16:34:32 GMT -5
The bible is pretty clear about this stuff. Either one believes it, or not. Jesus did physically rise from the dead. But, it was an immortal body. It's called a spiritual body. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven, but flesh and spirit can. His blood was drained on the cross. And yes, those who pierced him WILL see him. The Church will be raised in spiritualized bodies, and the rest of mankind will be raised in physical bodies (they wont be immortal.) How 'every eye' will see him doesn't matter to me. It doesn't specifically say how they will all see him, whether it's him coming in the clouds, or whether it's some time after that, when they will have to stand before him in judgment. I don't know, and it doesn't matter at this point. Questions about this stuff could go on for eternity. Everyone has to decide whether it's true to them or not. Those who raise objections don't rock my world at all. So when it says in the bible that Christ is within us, is he in our hearts in flesh or spirit? It says spirit in the bible but some people on here seem to believe that he's in his flesh in heaven? The God who put my spirit into my body is not 100% man as well as 100% God. He is 100% God.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 17:16:06 GMT -5
The bible is pretty clear about this stuff. Either one believes it, or not. Jesus did physically rise from the dead. But, it was an immortal body. It's called a spiritual body. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven, but flesh and spirit can. His blood was drained on the cross. And yes, those who pierced him WILL see him. The Church will be raised in spiritualized bodies, and the rest of mankind will be raised in physical bodies (they wont be immortal.) How 'every eye' will see him doesn't matter to me. It doesn't specifically say how they will all see him, whether it's him coming in the clouds, or whether it's some time after that, when they will have to stand before him in judgment. I don't know, an specificallyd it doesn't matter at this point. Questions about this stuff could go on for eternity. Everyone has to decide whether it's true to them or not. Those who raise objections don't rock my world at all. So when it says in the bible that Christ is within us, is he in our hearts in flesh or spirit? It says spirit in the bible but some people on here seem to believe that he's in his flesh in heaven? Of course he's not in our hearts physically. Jesus spoke of the holy spirit, which would come (Acts 2). Jesus is present now through the spirit. He's been elevated to the divine nature. Just as God can see every heart, and can be present (through His spirit) in all places, Jesus Christ is now present through the spirit. In 1 Corinthians 5:3 Paul said, "For I truly, though absent in body, but present in spirit, have already judged him that done this thing." If Paul could be 'absent in body' but 'present in spirit', then Jesus, who has actually been glorified, can certainly be 'absent in body' but 'present in spirit.' It's not that hard to believe. If you don't think Jesus has a body of flesh of bone, then how do you interpret Luke 25:39?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 17:22:29 GMT -5
The bible is pretty clear about this stuff. Either one believes it, or not. Jesus did physically rise from the dead. But, it was an immortal body. It's called a spiritual body. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven, but flesh and spirit can. His blood was drained on the cross. And yes, those who pierced him WILL see him. The Church will be raised in spiritualized bodies, and the rest of mankind will be raised in physical bodies (they wont be immortal.) How 'every eye' will see him doesn't matter to me. It doesn't specifically say how they will all see him, whether it's him coming in the clouds, or whether it's some time after that, when they will have to stand before him in judgment. I don't know, and it doesn't matter at this point. Questions about this stuff could go on for eternity. Everyone has to decide whether it's true to them or not. Those who raise objections don't rock my world at all. Where do religious wars come from? Is it not that various groups interpret the bible differently, yet say "the bible is pretty clear about this stuff"? Fixit, religious wars come from the love of power. In actuality, these so-called wars come from the flesh, not from the spirit. The history of the Roman Catholic Church and many of the major Protestant sects are full of one thing: mixing politics and religion. The US was smart in separating the Church and the State. They understood that the mixing of the two (symbolized in the bible as BABYLON, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS) cause problems. So, these religious wars really have nothing to do with Jesus or the truth. They have to do with the love of power- and greed. One could just as easily look at secular wars- look at the wars fought over ANY ideaology, whether it's Socialism, Nazism, or whatever and one sees that the root of the problem isn't the ideaology itself, but the power and greed that are motivating those in power, or those who wish to gain power. The very fact that wars have been fought in the name of Jesus proves the bible.
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Post by fixit on May 26, 2015 17:26:26 GMT -5
If you don't think Jesus has a body of flesh of bone, then how do you interpret Luke 25:39? There is no Luke 25:39
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 17:26:28 GMT -5
We are also body and spirit. Interesting that Christ's spirit is God's spirit - the Holy Spirit. What do you think it means when they say every eye will see him and they will see him whom they pierced, fixit, if they do not see a human form. OR what does it mean when it says the graves will open and the dead in Christ will rise to meet him in the air? Christians have long believed that our earthly bodies will rise and the reason that Christian have not believed in cremation. Professing people up until recently too. In fact it was in meetings that I learned that we should not be cremated for that reason. I had no real opinion on this when this thread started but since reading about it on here and reviewing the Bible passages it is clear that our earthy bodies will rise and will be changed into what I guess is immortal bodies. Jesus has an immortal body. Do you believe what they Bible says about these things, fixit? There are too things here, is Jesus in a immortal human body, and will we have immortal human bodies in eternity. . Mary, the stigma against cremation isn't that big anymore in meetings.
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Post by fixit on May 26, 2015 17:30:34 GMT -5
So when it says in the bible that Christ is within us, is he in our hearts in flesh or spirit? It says spirit in the bible but some people on here seem to believe that he's in his flesh in heaven? Of course he's not in our hearts physically. Exactly! So why do people think Jesus is in heaven physically?
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Post by maryhig on May 26, 2015 17:34:09 GMT -5
The bible is pretty clear about this stuff. Either one believes it, or not. Jesus did physically rise from the dead. But, it was an immortal body. It's called a spiritual body. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of heaven, but flesh and spirit can. His blood was drained on the cross. And yes, those who pierced him WILL see him. The Church will be raised in spiritualized bodies, and the rest of mankind will be raised in physical bodies (they wont be immortal.) How 'every eye' will see him doesn't matter to me. It doesn't specifically say how they will all see him, whether it's him coming in the clouds, or whether it's some time after that, when they will have to stand before him in judgment. I don't know, and it doesn't matter at this point. Questions about this stuff could go on for eternity. Everyone has to decide whether it's true to them or not. Those who raise objections don't rock my world at all. One passage that Christians should read is John 20:26-31. The lord appeared to the Disciples after his resurrection. The doors were locked, but Jesus suddenly "stood in the midst of them." He showed them his body - the pierced hands and his side. In Luke 24:39 Jesus presented himself to the disciples and said "..for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have." So, he wasn't a spirit. His body was physical, but it was glorified. One doesn't have to understand this to believe it. Whatever the composition of Jesus' body right now, the fact is, he still have the nail prints in his hands, and the gash in his side. He said "a spirit hath not flesh and bone as ye see me have." So, he wasn't a spirit.
How about this, Mary at the tomb perceived Jesus to be a gardener until he said "Mary" then she knew him, then the men on the road to emmaus talked for ages with him and didn't know him until he broke the bread (spoke the word of God) and the deciples on the boat didn't know it was him until he said cast your nets on the right side. Then when peter heard it was the lord he jumped in to the sea to swim to him. They all knew him by his voice, not what he looked like. Just like we will know his voice in his people who's hearts he is risen in! John 21:14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead. He hadn't fully risen from the dead until after he had showed himself to his deciples for the third time! He then goes on to tell peter to feed his lambs and sheep, and then he says this, Verse 18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. This is the death we have to go through to glorify God, and follow Jesus, and to be guided by the spirit of God instead of living to please ourselves! We are the dead he rises from, when we're dead to sin! (Death to self) then Gods spirit can guide us because we are alive to him! We have a choice, we can be dead in our sins and alive in the world, or dead with Christ and alive in God! With Christ risen in our hearts bringing Gods holy spirit to us daily! John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Also read 1 Corinthians 15 And Romans 8
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 17:41:18 GMT -5
If you don't think Jesus has a body of flesh of bone, then how do you interpret Luke 25:39? There is no Luke 25:39 Oh, sorry. It's Luke 24:39.
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Post by Mary on May 26, 2015 17:43:44 GMT -5
Nor is the stigma of cremation that big in mainstream Christian circles any more either.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 17:45:50 GMT -5
Of course he's not in our hearts physically. Exactly! So why do people think Jesus is in heaven physically? Probably because he said he'd rise from the dead, and the bible says he rose from the dead.
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Post by maryhig on May 26, 2015 17:46:34 GMT -5
So when it says in the bible that Christ is within us, is he in our hearts in flesh or spirit? It says spirit in the bible but some people on here seem to believe that he's in his flesh in heaven? Of course he's not in our hearts physically. Jesus spoke of the holy spirit, which would come (Acts 2). Jesus is present now through the spirit. He's been elevated to the divine nature. Just as God can see every heart, and can be present (through His spirit) in all places, Jesus Christ is now present through the spirit. In 1 Corinthians 5:3 Paul said, "For I truly, though absent in body, but present in spirit, have already judged him that done this thing." If Paul could be 'absent in body' but 'present in spirit', then Jesus, who has actually been glorified, can certainly be 'absent in body' but 'present in spirit.' It's not that hard to believe. If you don't think Jesus has a body of flesh of bone, then how do you interpret Luke 25:39?
So I'm taking it that you don't believe he's in heaven in the flesh, like others on here believe? I believe God is a spirit, and Christ is a spirit with God not in flesh and bone in heaven. There is no flesh and blood in God kingdom. But Gods kingdom can be in flesh and blood. Because we ask for it every day in the lords prayer! Thy kingdom come, then thy will be done, in earth as it is on heaven!
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Post by maryhig on May 26, 2015 17:49:10 GMT -5
Exactly! So why do people think Jesus is in heaven physically? So do you not think that Jesus is on the right hand of the Father, in heaven? His body does not go inside us, God's spirit does or do you think both Christ's spirit and the Holy Spirit is in us? His human body is not every where his spirit is. So where is his human body whilst his spirit is everywhere?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 17:53:06 GMT -5
One passage that Christians should read is John 20:26-31. The lord appeared to the Disciples after his resurrection. The doors were locked, but Jesus suddenly "stood in the midst of them." He showed them his body - the pierced hands and his side. In Luke 24:39 Jesus presented himself to the disciples and said "..for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have." So, he wasn't a spirit. His body was physical, but it was glorified. One doesn't have to understand this to believe it. Whatever the composition of Jesus' body right now, the fact is, he still have the nail prints in his hands, and the gash in his side. He said "a spirit hath not flesh and bone as ye see me have." So, he wasn't a spirit.
How about this, Mary at the tomb perceived Jesus to be a gardener until he said "Mary" then she knew him, then the men on the road to emmaus talked for ages with him and didn't know him until he broke the bread (spoke the word of God) and the deciples on the boat didn't know it was him until he said cast your nets on the right side. Then when peter heard it was the lord he jumped in to the sea to swim to him. They all knew him by his voice, not what he looked like. Just like we will know his voice in his people who's hearts he is risen in! John 21:14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead. He hadn't fully risen from the dead until after he had showed himself to his deciples for the third time! He then goes on to tell peter to feed his lambs and sheep, and then he says this, Verse 18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. This is the death we have to go through to glorify God, and follow Jesus, and to be guided by the spirit of God instead of living to please ourselves! We are the dead he rises from, when we're dead to sin! (Death to self) then Gods spirit can guide us because we are alive to him! We have a choice, we can be dead in our sins and alive in the world, or dead with Christ and alive in God! With Christ risen in our hearts bringing Gods holy spirit to us daily! John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Also read 1 Corinthians 15 And Romans 8 Mary, 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 8 support the physical resurrection of Jesus. I'm not sure what you are pointing out in these passages. In fact, I'd pay particular attention to 1 Corinthians 15:12-18. If Christ isn't raised from the dead (his physical body), then your faith is vain. What you suppose happened to his body? Did it remain in the grave? Was it stolen by his disciples? Did it evaporate? I'm not being snide. I'm seriously wondering what you think happened to his physical body. And, how do you get a resurrection if the body isn't raised? You also did not explain Luke 24:39. What was the big deal about the disciples running to the tomb and finding it empty if Jesus hadn't physically rose from the dead? Why did the Roman soldiers take the money from the priests and perpetuate the lie that the disciples had stolen the body? Why the empty tomb? What's so hard to believe that Jesus rose physically from the dead?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 18:03:37 GMT -5
Of course he's not in our hearts physically. Jesus spoke of the holy spirit, which would come (Acts 2). Jesus is present now through the spirit. He's been elevated to the divine nature. Just as God can see every heart, and can be present (through His spirit) in all places, Jesus Christ is now present through the spirit. In 1 Corinthians 5:3 Paul said, "For I truly, though absent in body, but present in spirit, have already judged him that done this thing." If Paul could be 'absent in body' but 'present in spirit', then Jesus, who has actually been glorified, can certainly be 'absent in body' but 'present in spirit.' It's not that hard to believe. If you don't think Jesus has a body of flesh of bone, then how do you interpret Luke 25:39?
So I'm taking it that you don't believe he's in heaven in the flesh, like others on here believe? I believe God is a spirit, and Christ is a spirit with God not in flesh and bone in heaven. There is no flesh and blood in God kingdom. But Gods kingdom can be in flesh and blood. Because we ask for it every day in the lords prayer! Thy kingdom come, then thy will be done, in earth as it is on heaven! Maryhig, it says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God in the Bible. 1 Corinthians 15:50. Your statement about "But God's kingdom can be in flesh and blood" simply contradicts 1 Corinthians 15:50. But, the bible doesn't say flesh and bone cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The glorified body will be spiritualized. It will function via spirit, not via blood. Christ's blood was drained from him on the cross. This isn't just symbolic, it's actual. This is getting into a whole other area, but here goes: the sin nature is passed form father to child via the sperm (blood). It's not passed from mother to child, but from father to child. This is why Jesus was in a neutral position when it came to sin, just as Adam was. Adam had no earthly father, and Jesus had no earthly father. This is why the shedding of blood was so significant in the Old Testament sacrifices. This is why flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
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Post by maryhig on May 26, 2015 18:06:05 GMT -5
How about this, Mary at the tomb perceived Jesus to be a gardener until he said "Mary" then she knew him, then the men on the road to emmaus talked for ages with him and didn't know him until he broke the bread (spoke the word of God) and the deciples on the boat didn't know it was him until he said cast your nets on the right side. Then when peter heard it was the lord he jumped in to the sea to swim to him. They all knew him by his voice, not what he looked like. Just like we will know his voice in his people who's hearts he is risen in! John 21:14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead. He hadn't fully risen from the dead until after he had showed himself to his deciples for the third time! He then goes on to tell peter to feed his lambs and sheep, and then he says this, Verse 18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. This is the death we have to go through to glorify God, and follow Jesus, and to be guided by the spirit of God instead of living to please ourselves! We are the dead he rises from, when we're dead to sin! (Death to self) then Gods spirit can guide us because we are alive to him! We have a choice, we can be dead in our sins and alive in the world, or dead with Christ and alive in God! With Christ risen in our hearts bringing Gods holy spirit to us daily! John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Also read 1 Corinthians 15 And Romans 8 Mary, 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 8 support the physical resurrection of Jesus. I'm not sure what you are pointing out in these passages. In fact, I'd pay particular attention to 1 Corinthians 15:12-18. If Christ isn't raised from the dead (his physical body), then your faith is vain. What you suppose happened to his body? Did it remain in the grave? Was it stolen by his disciples? Did it evaporate? I'm not being snide. I'm seriously wondering what you think happened to his physical body. And, how do you get a resurrection if the body isn't raised? You also did not explain Luke 24:39. What was the big deal about the disciples running to the tomb and finding it empty if Jesus hadn't physically rose from the dead? Why did the Roman soldiers take the money from the priests and perpetuate the lie that the disciples had stolen the body? Why the empty tomb? What's so hard to believe that Jesus rose physically from the dead?
I'm not saying he didn't physically rise then, but it does say that he wasn't for risen from the dead until after the deciples saw him rise for the third time. Or is that a lie in the bible? I'm talking about his second coming! Everyone is waiting for him to rise in the flesh. We are the flesh he is risen in! As i said, whether it will happen naturally well I don't know but maybe we will be alive to see. But I believe he has risen spiritually! Also I don't believe that he is in the flesh in heaven. I believe he is in the spirit! Romans 8 refers to death to self! Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 18:10:20 GMT -5
So do you not think that Jesus is on the right hand of the Father, in heaven? His body does not go inside us, God's spirit does or do you think both Christ's spirit and the Holy Spirit is in us? His human body is not every where his spirit is. So where is his human body whilst his spirit is everywhere? This isn't my opinion, but it's the bible's opinion: the human body of Jesus is in heaven, while he is spiritually everywhere. Just as we can't comprehend how God is everywhere, yet it's said He's in heaven, so also we can't comprehend how Jesus is everywhere, yet he's physically in heaven. You don't have to understand it to believe it. I don't understand physics, but I know physics is a fact. I don't understand advanced algebra, but I know it's a fact. I don't understand how this computer works that I'm operating, but I know that this communication is a fact. I don't understand a lot of things, but I go with them anyway. You don't have to understand this stuff. But you do have to believe what the bible says, especially when it comes to things so fundamental as the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. That was a central theme of his whole message, MaryH. I think that the real question isn't HOW he can be physically in heaven, but WHERE IS HIS BODY if he isn't physical?
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Post by maryhig on May 26, 2015 18:22:09 GMT -5
So I'm taking it that you don't believe he's in heaven in the flesh, like others on here believe? I believe God is a spirit, and Christ is a spirit with God not in flesh and bone in heaven. There is no flesh and blood in God kingdom. But Gods kingdom can be in flesh and blood. Because we ask for it every day in the lords prayer! Thy kingdom come, then thy will be done, in earth as it is on heaven! Maryhig, it says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God in the Bible. 1 Corinthians 15:50. Your statement about "But God's kingdom can be in flesh and blood" simply contradicts 1 Corinthians 15:50. But, the bible doesn't say flesh and bone cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The glorified body will be spiritualized. It will function via spirit, not via blood. Christ's blood was drained from him on the cross. This isn't just symbolic, it's actual. This is getting into a whole other area, but here goes: the sin nature is passed form father to child via the sperm (blood). It's not passed from mother to child, but from father to child. This is why Jesus was in a neutral position when it came to sin, just as Adam was. Adam had no earthly father, and Jesus had no earthly father. This is why the shedding of blood was so significant in the Old Testament sacrifices. This is why flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
So if flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God? Where are we asking for Gods kingdom to come to in the lords prayer? What about this 1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed We have to be changed before we inherit Gods kingdom for corrupt flesh and blood has to be gone before we can put on incorruption, which is Christ in the heart! 1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. Paul is talking about the here and now! He's talking about Christ being raised within our hearts!
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Post by Gene on May 26, 2015 18:23:21 GMT -5
How about this, Mary at the tomb perceived Jesus to be a gardener until he said "Mary" then she knew him, then the men on the road to emmaus talked for ages with him and didn't know him until he broke the bread (spoke the word of God) and the deciples on the boat didn't know it was him until he said cast your nets on the right side. Then when peter heard it was the lord he jumped in to the sea to swim to him. They all knew him by his voice, not what he looked like. Just like we will know his voice in his people who's hearts he is risen in! John 21:14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead. He hadn't fully risen from the dead until after he had showed himself to his deciples for the third time! He then goes on to tell peter to feed his lambs and sheep, and then he says this, Verse 18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. This is the death we have to go through to glorify God, and follow Jesus, and to be guided by the spirit of God instead of living to please ourselves! We are the dead he rises from, when we're dead to sin! (Death to self) then Gods spirit can guide us because we are alive to him! We have a choice, we can be dead in our sins and alive in the world, or dead with Christ and alive in God! With Christ risen in our hearts bringing Gods holy spirit to us daily! John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Also read 1 Corinthians 15 And Romans 8 What's so hard to believe that Jesus rose physically from the dead?
Maybe physics? Which, and I have this on good authority, while we may not understand it, we know it's a fact.
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Post by maryhig on May 26, 2015 18:26:52 GMT -5
So where is his human body whilst his spirit is everywhere? This isn't my opinion, but it's the bible's opinion: the human body of Jesus is in heaven, while he is spiritually everywhere. Just as we can't comprehend how God is everywhere, yet it's said He's in heaven, so also we can't comprehend how Jesus is everywhere, yet he's physically in heaven. You don't have to understand it to believe it. I don't understand physics, but I know physics is a fact. I don't understand advanced algebra, but I know it's a fact. I don't understand how this computer works that I'm operating, but I know that this communication is a fact. I don't understand a lot of things, but I go with them anyway. You don't have to understand this stuff. But you do have to believe what the bible says, especially when it comes to things so fundamental as the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. That was a central theme of his whole message, MaryH. I think that the real question isn't HOW he can be physically in heaven, but WHERE IS HIS BODY if he isn't physical?
Mark you have to believe what you will, but I don't believe there is any flesh in heaven. Flesh is an abomination to God. God is spirit, so is Christ. This is how I believe from my heart. You must follow yours! Right I'm off to bed, it's 12.30 am
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