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Post by Roselyn T on May 19, 2015 4:10:36 GMT -5
Felicity, did you say "I do not know anyone with a TV or radio, " ? Are you serious you don't know anyone of the friends that have a radio ? Of course I'm serious. I don't know anyone who has a radio in their house. Obviously radio's are built into cars nowadays, but I don't know anyone who actually uses them. There's one in my car but I've never turned it on and I don't even know how. So do they have computers & iPhones ? What about DVD players ?
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Post by Roselyn T on May 19, 2015 4:13:52 GMT -5
Felicity you don't seem to be aware of the amount of CSA that has actually happened in the F&W. I think you still have rose coloured glasses on. As to honesty, well you only have to look at the way workers have been sent from one state to the next to cover up issues. Look at what happened in Alberta and what is happening now in Vietnam. Roselyn are you aware that the majority of friends and workers are not either victims or perpetrators of CSA? I do not have rose coloured glasses on, but I can't see things that aren't there (or here!). That maybe the way it is where you live Felicity but it is NOT the way it is in Australia ! Have you had a look at Wings For Truth? For the "Right Way" there seems to be a lot of wrong.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 4:18:47 GMT -5
Of course I'm serious. I don't know anyone who has a radio in their house. Obviously radio's are built into cars nowadays, but I don't know anyone who actually uses them. There's one in my car but I've never turned it on and I don't even know how. So do they have computers & iPhones ? What about DVD players ? Most people have computers, lots have smart phones of some sort. I don't know anyone with a DVD player. None of my friends listen to music or watch videos on their computers, nor do they allow their kids to, however it appears from this forum that wouldn't be a worldwide practice.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 19, 2015 4:24:24 GMT -5
So its ok to have a laptop & phone but not a radio ? That doesn't make sense to me. Everything can be done on a laptop anyway !
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 4:30:24 GMT -5
Roselyn are you aware that the majority of friends and workers are not either victims or perpetrators of CSA? I do not have rose coloured glasses on, but I can't see things that aren't there (or here!). That maybe the way it is where you live Felicity but it is NOT the way it is in Australia ! Have you had a look at Wings For Truth? For the "Right Way" there seems to be a lot of wrong. Are you saying that the majority of friends and workers in Australia are either victims or perpetrators of CSA?? I do not believe that. Yes, I have seen the Wings for Truth site. I've been asked that question many times on this forum. I can only see a list of about 23 offenders. Even one of those despicable offences would be one too many. However, if that's the sum total of convictions worldwide it is not a large number.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 4:36:46 GMT -5
So its ok to have a laptop & phone but not a radio ? That doesn't make sense to me. Everything can be done on a laptop anyway ! I'm sure I could use my laptop for other things if I wanted to, and if I knew how, and that may be a temptation for some people, but that doesn't mean everybody is doing those things - though I'm not sure if joining this forum was a healthy use of my laptop
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Post by Mary on May 19, 2015 4:39:56 GMT -5
Most people do not report or disclose sexual abuse. So you add many more to the 23 which would just be the tip of the iceberg. Also how many people would have heard of WINGS or even approached them.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 19, 2015 4:41:35 GMT -5
Felicity the list on Wings is only those that have been charged ! What about those that have not been charged ? What about the victims that have not come forward because of family pressure ? Those that know they will not be believed.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 4:43:01 GMT -5
So its ok to have a laptop & phone but not a radio ? That doesn't make sense to me. Everything can be done on a laptop anyway ! most of us here have radios in our emergency kits in our cars. but what is there to listen to on a radio? the words of mamon maybe
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Post by Roselyn T on May 19, 2015 4:44:05 GMT -5
So its ok to have a laptop & phone but not a radio ? That doesn't make sense to me. Everything can be done on a laptop anyway ! I'm sure I could use my laptop for other things if I wanted to, and if I knew how, and that may be a temptation for some people, but that doesn't mean everybody is doing those things - though I'm not sure if joining this forum was a healthy use of my laptop Felicity are you saying a lot of the young ones where you live don't listen to music ?
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Post by Roselyn T on May 19, 2015 4:48:05 GMT -5
So its ok to have a laptop & phone but not a radio ? That doesn't make sense to me. Everything can be done on a laptop anyway ! most of us here have radios in our emergency kits in our cars. but what is there to listen to on a radio? the words of mamon maybe Of course you would never hear words of mammon from any of the F&W would you Virgo !
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 4:49:20 GMT -5
Most people do not report or disclose sexual abuse. So you add many more to the 23 which would just be the tip of the iceberg. Also how many people would have heard of WINGS or even approached them. News of convictions will get around one way or another. If something hasn't been disclosed or reported then it's only idle speculation. You can't assume that there are great numbers involved unless you've got facts to back it up.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 4:52:47 GMT -5
most of us here have radios in our emergency kits in our cars. but what is there to listen to on a radio? the words of mamon maybe Of course you would never hear words of mammon from any of the F&W would you Virgo ! what are they like
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Post by Roselyn T on May 19, 2015 4:54:03 GMT -5
I do have the facts to back it up Felicity, workers telling a man who abused his daughter from when she was 8 years old to deny what he had done so when it came out it didn't give "The Truth" a bad name ! Also allowing the same man to go to convention when he was on bail and saying "if anyone needed convention he did " ! Are you on Facebook Felicity ?
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 4:56:35 GMT -5
I'm sure I could use my laptop for other things if I wanted to, and if I knew how, and that may be a temptation for some people, but that doesn't mean everybody is doing those things - though I'm not sure if joining this forum was a healthy use of my laptop Felicity are you saying a lot of the young ones where you live don't listen to music ? My kids don't, their cousins and friends don't. I haven't heard of any who do, but I'm some probably do. Why?
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Post by Roselyn T on May 19, 2015 4:59:44 GMT -5
Just shows how different things are in different places, here in Aus the biggest percent of young ones listen to music, and know all the latest songs !
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 5:00:23 GMT -5
I do have the facts to back it up Felicity, workers telling a man who abused his daughter from when she was 8 years old to deny what he had done so when it came out it didn't give "The Truth" a bad name ! Also allowing the same man to go to convention when he was on bail and saying "if anyone needed convention he did " ! Are you on Facebook Felicity ? That's a tragic mistake. However, it's a fact about one more situation, not a fact to back up the idea that the majority of people are involved. No, I'm not on facebook.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 19, 2015 5:02:24 GMT -5
It is one of many that I know of in Australia, women who are now in their 40's trying to deal with abuse that happened when they were girls but their parents would not believe them.
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Post by maryhig on May 19, 2015 5:23:24 GMT -5
They didn't know God, or they wouldn't have done it! They would have had compassion if they truly believed. They just used God to hide behind and God will judge all that do this! Cruelty comes from Satan. Many people profess to be Christian and to believe in God. But if they have this in their hearts then they don't know him at all! And they are not his. Gods people should care for everyone. God loved the world, he sent his only begotten son. He didn't only send him for just some of us, but all of us! Its up to us whether we believe! They saw slavery as "compassionate". Many believed Africans were not fully human and would benefit from the structured existence of slavery. The Bible - including the New Testament - refers to slavery and does not speak out against it. Can you see how the Bible could be seen as supporting slavery? Many descendents of slaves are Christian today...a "testiment" to the prevelant belief back then that slavery gave the enslaved Africans a chance to embrace Christianity that they otherwise would not have had. Would you deny them that? You are passing judgement on an awful lot of Christians. God and the Bible can be (and has been) used, with all sincerity, to "justify" all kinds of things. Matisse anyone who does anything like that, is not of God! Whatever they say they believe in!
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Post by matisse on May 19, 2015 5:34:25 GMT -5
They saw slavery as "compassionate". Many believed Africans were not fully human and would benefit from the structured existence of slavery. The Bible - including the New Testament - refers to slavery and does not speak out against it. Can you see how the Bible could be seen as supporting slavery? Many descendents of slaves are Christian today...a "testiment" to the prevelant belief back then that slavery gave the enslaved Africans a chance to embrace Christianity that they otherwise would not have had. Would you deny them that? You are passing judgement on an awful lot of Christians. God and the Bible can be (and has been) used, with all sincerity, to "justify" all kinds of things. Matisse anyone who does anything like that, is not of God! Whatever they say they believe in! I think Christians are awfully quick to throw each other "under the bus".
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Post by What Hat on May 19, 2015 6:12:19 GMT -5
Fixit ~ Atheists don't believe in the existence of any Creator God, so it stands to reason they would be more restrained in any condemnation of the 2x2 church or any of these fringe groups, which have distinctive qualities setting them apart from mainline Christianity. For instance, check out these Eight Aspects of Aberrational Groups under the Spiritually Abusive Church description found under Bible-based cults for more clarification. Do you see anything that might apply to the 2x2's in this list? Be sure to be honest with yourself in evaluating this data since information is the key to revelation. That's kind of you to encourage me out of a dangerous cult Faune. It seems I need a revelation? If I did leave I wouldn't be jumping into a Trinitarian cult, or a Calvinist cult, or an Evangelical cult, or a Pentecostal cult. Or a JW, Mormon, SDA, or Scientology cult. So you can see I don't have many options. Perhaps the F&W will need to put up with me for a bit longer? Looks like you've left yourself only one of the Muslim cults. Lol. The Sufi's might interest you.
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Post by What Hat on May 19, 2015 6:23:26 GMT -5
What Hat ~ What about the workers claiming that any church groups and professing Christians outside of the 2x2's are NOT honored by God and the folks are on their way to Hell for not being a member of their "one and only way of salvation." Wouldn't you call that ISOLATION from outside groups ~ or have they changed their message along these lines, too? I really doubt it. I would call that 'isolation' from other churches. But they categorically do not isolate themselves in the way harmful groups like FLDS or Waco do. And even then there are many groups like the Hutterites, Mennonites and Naturists who do isolate themselves but are not harmful at all. So I think it's not a useful criterion.
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Post by What Hat on May 19, 2015 6:31:49 GMT -5
Hi Faune. I agree with Brick, this post is as true today as it was in 2008; I'd include the rest of the verses in Matthew 18; People who use words like "heresy" "cult" and "cult-like" about 2x2s really don't seem care that they are offensive, no, it seems they deliberately use those words in the way Brick describes. They seem proud and unapologetic. They go with accusations and judgments where even angels fear to tread: "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee." Jesse ~ No problem! You have a right to your opinion as much as I have to mine, based upon what I have read in ex-members testimonials and seen for myself over my professing years, which is why I'm an ex-member today. However, perhaps it would be better to refer to controlling and manipulative behaviors by some church leaders as spiritually abusive instead of cultish, due to the negative connotations? In addition, if you look at my referenced site in the O.P., be sure to check out the DISCLAIMER under Bible-cults and Isms which clarifies the difference between destructive groups and fringe groups of Christianity in what they promote their own version of the gospel message. Also, I want to stress that cultish or aberrant groups are labeled such due to behaviors manifested within these groups and not based upon theology. However, within groups classified here under Bible cults, there are differences noted in their teaching about Christ and His gospel message compared to "worldly" churches. It's because of this fact that theology is even discussed in this section, but it's definitely not the defining factor as to whether you believe in the Trinity concept or not. www.culthelp.info/index.php I'm confused. Are they using 'behaviours' or 'theology'? If 'both' is the answer I guess that Trinitarian dysfunctional groups get a free pass on this site.
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Post by fixit on May 19, 2015 6:33:56 GMT -5
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Post by What Hat on May 19, 2015 6:40:25 GMT -5
Fixit ~ Actually I share your opinion when it comes down to the horrors promoted by the RCC to promote their views upon others through coercion and bully tactics. If anything speaks of a dangerous cult, such behavior surely fits the bill. IMHO? Personally, I cannot envision God putting his stamp of approval on such behavior anymore than the O.T. accounts of genocide of men, women, and children who didn't embrace the God of Israel. Honestly, it's stories of such mayhem recorded in the O.T. that causes me to pause and consider if man didn't have some input in these "inspired words" more than God Himself? The atrocities in the name of religion under the RCC is another example of the same mindset of another group that claims to be the "one true church." Therefore, in my own mind, any group that makes such outrageous claims sends up Red Flags in my mind whether they are small sects or churches with million of followers. I honestly believe that Jesus never came to set up a specific church group, but to offer salvation to all who would embrace his sacrifice on the Cross in their behalf and accept His forgiveness of their sins and follow His teachings. I feel Religion has just muddied the waters with all their conditions of salvation and hoops to jump through to be counted acceptable, which has nothing to so with the gospel of grace extended to " whosoever would believe." (John 3:16) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Inquisition
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_true_church Yes, religion has muddied the waters. Christians have also done a lot of good down through the ages - they played a major role in the abolition of slavery. Putting history aside, an interesting question is whether or not Christians today can share their faith with confidence and invite them to their church and to join the local community of believers. I had great difficulty doing that in the 2x2 church because I wasn't sure what I believed or what I was bringing folk into. I wasn't real keen on bringing them into a church that preached "the only right way". I don't have a problem with that today - even though all churches are imperfect - I don't feel I'd have to explain much... I don't know others feel about this? Can they invite people with confidence to their church? The Trinity doctrine and mumbo-jumbo no longer seems 'real' for many Christians, so many young people are looking for a more genuine service and connection with God.
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Post by Lee on May 19, 2015 7:14:48 GMT -5
In other words, away from revealed theology, and back to private interpretation. Good luck, What Hat.
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Post by matisse on May 19, 2015 7:23:58 GMT -5
TMB is full of participants who truly "know" they are operating on revealed truth. The conflict and strife among them is dumbfounding.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 8:15:42 GMT -5
Honestly, 2x2's on this Board are fixated on the Trinity and in real life it tends to be referred to by them as "that Catholic doctrine". I've never found a Christian who worries about it at all. Most Christians that I fellowship with are focused on spreading the gospel and becoming more like Jesus - not easy but a good priority. They want to be in a church where they can do this (before someone jumps on me - I'm not saying you can't do it in the 2x2's) Excuse me, we're not all fixated on the trinity. I've never heard it discussed by any friends or workers outside of this forum, nor have I ever heard anyone refer to it as Catholic doctrine. It is definitely part of the Anglican doctrine here, because I heard an Anglican minister in school using a shamrock to explain it to the class. I personally do not feel the need to use any trinity terminology in order to serve God. Ross, I would really appreciate if you would stop implying that we are not Christians. Most Christians that I have fellowship with are also focused on becoming more like Jesus.
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