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Post by maryhig on May 17, 2015 11:10:10 GMT -5
Nathan, sometimes you sound so self-righteous! Who are you to judge us? How do you know who we talk to or who we are teaching? My uncle may have gone out on his own, but none of us would have known God of it wasn't for him, also we all talk to others and our own families! We were reading revelation 1 this morning in the meeting. And John was sent on his own to the churches. So some have gone out on their own! You sound very judgemental Nathan. You don't even know us. You've got no right to judge us! I am just trying to express, and explain myself clearly and with scripture to back it up my points. I don't mean to be judgmental or self righteous with my posts. Sorry, if I have offended you, I just try to point out these things which I see with your group history.
Yes, the apostles sometimes preach alone. We have workers preached by themselves for a few years because no companion was available to join him ASAP. I was asked to join with a senior worker who didn't have companion for two years. On the workers list sometimes there are three workers in one field.
It's OK Nathan, I'm sorry too. I wish you could see our lives. You would see our people love God.
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Post by What Hat on May 17, 2015 12:11:37 GMT -5
It is also time to stop dividing up the religious groups into O.K. Churches and noxious cults, the latter being the exclusive repository of objectionable destructiveness. When this division is made, the “cult” category always ends up encompassing an extremely variegated and diverse array of groups and collectivities, which have practically nothing in common except some sort of controversiality and a lack of traditional familiarity (i.e., a “cult” is not the Methodist church). From - www.icsahome.com/articles/objectionable-aspects-ofcults-csj-2-2This is the essential problem: lots of reasons to call another group a cult, but the main denominations get an automatic pass from the evaluation.
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Post by faune on May 17, 2015 12:33:10 GMT -5
Here's the description given of common characteristics found within any religious cult. Do you see anything on this list that you can relate to personally? I believe the last item on this list relating to the leadership within such groups sums it up quite well. ~ "Adherents to these groups fail to realize that they are in a cult and under mind control. Often the leaders are the most brainwashed of all." ~ WHAT RELIGIOUS CULTS HAVE IN COMMON: •Their way is the only way. A "we alone are right" mentality. •Their vague doctrine is to be accepted but not necessarily understood. •Members are conformed by the group not transformed by God. •They reject the One Triune God--the Christian belief in God as God the Father, God the Son (Jesus - John 1:1, 1:14), and God the Holy Spirit. As a result they worship "another" Jesus. Faune, this is a very poor definition of "cult". It's simply a bunch of Christians bad-mouthing other groups. Let's start with the first four points above and apply it to Trinitarians. If you take off your Trinitarian glasses, and try to have an open mind without a Trinitarian filter, you'll understand how hypocritical the anti-cult movement is! Atheists have far more right to label a group as a cult, yet they are more restrained in their condemnation of the 2x2 church. Go figure! Fixit ~ Atheists don't believe in the existence of any Creator God, so it stands to reason they would be more restrained in any condemnation of the 2x2 church or any of these fringe groups, which have distinctive qualities setting them apart from mainline Christianity. For instance, check out these Eight Aspects of Aberrational Groups under the Spiritually Abusive Church description found under Bible-based cults for more clarification. Do you see anything that might apply to the 2x2's in this list? Be sure to be honest with yourself in evaluating this data since information is the key to revelation. www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=712&Itemid=8
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Post by faune on May 17, 2015 13:00:37 GMT -5
Eight Distinctives Of An Aberrational Christian Group
Point #1 deals with "scripture twisting" within these spiritually abusive groups.
Point # 2 deals with Controlling Leader/Leadership within these groups. Point #3 involves separation and isolation of membership from outside influences. Point #4 involves "the Chosen Few" associated with the group. Point # 5 involves uniformity of lifestyle required within these aberrational groups. Point # 6 involves "no dissent" or questioning of God's anointed leadership. Point # 7 deals with Traumatic Departure associated with the group. Point #8 deals with Transition after leaving these spiritually abusive groups. www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=712&Itemid=8
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Post by Mary on May 17, 2015 14:14:21 GMT -5
Whathat, these sects do the dividing by their own words.
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Post by snow on May 17, 2015 21:20:12 GMT -5
Snow ~ To answer your question, Jan Groenveld was never associated with the 2x2's, but was exposed to the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses and was the person who did a lot of research on cults and started this awareness site, who is now deceased. However, others carry on her work and keep the site up-to-date. So, if the listing of general cultish behaviors looked familiar to you, it's a composite of what you can find in most Bible-based cults or aberrant groups who claim the "one and only" status. www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2&Itemid=3 About Jan
Thanks for the blurb on Jan Groenveld. Wow, both JW and Mormon! One would have been enough for me.
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Post by snow on May 17, 2015 21:28:48 GMT -5
Saying "God the son" and "God the holy ghost" when it isn't in the bible! Along with many other traditions that aren't biblical! I wonder which one really is the cult! Just because it's followed by millions, doesn't make it right! The Bible are books which selected or put it together by a bunch of cardinals, priests, Pope of RCC in the 3rd century... Many books were left out... there were Christians who received clearer understanding with terminologies to describe the Godhead which came after the Bible put together. So, any new revelation came after the Bible put together by the RCC you call isn't Biblical?
We have many traditions such as conventions, special meetings, gospel meetings, and different church denominations have church retreat, church camps, etc.. today which are NOT in the Bible, so according to you isn't Biblical? So, should we discard all of these things?
Your church isn't Biblical because you folks don't have an apostolic Itinerant preachers/apostles ministry among your group like in the Bible. Do you consider your group is a Cult?
I will likely regret asking this but what the heck. What books do you believe were left out of the bible that describe the triune godhead? The Gnostics that wrote much of the Nag Hammadi Library didn't believe in a Triune God for the most part and even went to far as to believe that the Supreme God was not the Creator of the world but the Demiurge. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge
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Post by faune on May 17, 2015 22:28:27 GMT -5
Snow ~ To answer your question, Jan Groenveld was never associated with the 2x2's, but was exposed to the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses and was the person who did a lot of research on cults and started this awareness site, who is now deceased. However, others carry on her work and keep the site up-to-date. So, if the listing of general cultish behaviors looked familiar to you, it's a composite of what you can find in most Bible-based cults or aberrant groups who claim the "one and only" status. www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2&Itemid=3 About Jan
Thanks for the blurb on Jan Groenveld. Wow, both JW and Mormon! One would have been enough for me. Snow ~ One would be enough for me, too! However, it's NOT uncommon to see folks leave one aberrational group and jump right back into another one with similar traits to the first. Perhaps some folks may just be attracted to these "one and only groups" due to legalistic conditioning over the years? No doubt these groups reel folks in by "love bombing" in the beginning until they are hooked. But, over time reality eventually sets in from experiencing the same negative aspects as before? Perhaps that's one good reason for giving yourself some space after a negative and controlling church experience to gain some balance and perspective. However, I'm sure it's not uncommon for some to lose all interest in exploring other churches altogether due to fear of another bad experience?
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Post by What Hat on May 17, 2015 23:49:31 GMT -5
Whathat, these sects do the dividing by their own words. That sounds very judgemental and exclusive to me, Mary. What do you think?
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Post by What Hat on May 17, 2015 23:53:06 GMT -5
Thanks for the blurb on Jan Groenveld. Wow, both JW and Mormon! One would have been enough for me. Snow ~ One would be enough for me, too! However, it's NOT uncommon to see folks leave one aberrational group and jump right back into another one with similar traits to the first. Perhaps some folks may just be attracted to these "one and only groups" due to legalistic conditioning over the years? No doubt these groups reel folks in by "love bombing" in the beginning until they are hooked. But, over time reality eventually sets in from experiencing the same negative aspects as before? Perhaps that's one good reason for giving yourself some space after a negative and controlling church experience to gain some balance and perspective. However, I'm sure it's not uncommon for some to lose all interest in exploring other churches altogether due to fear of another bad experience? No kidding. And then they write posts and stories from the perspective of their new "cult" about how bad the old one was. I'm beginning to think a "cult" is what you make of whatever it is that you believe.
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Post by fixit on May 17, 2015 23:58:20 GMT -5
Whathat, these sects do the dividing by their own words. Do F&W publish books condemning other churches?
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Post by fixit on May 18, 2015 0:04:40 GMT -5
Fixit ~ Atheists don't believe in the existence of any Creator God, so it stands to reason they would be more restrained in any condemnation of the 2x2 church or any of these fringe groups, which have distinctive qualities setting them apart from mainline Christianity. For instance, check out these Eight Aspects of Aberrational Groups under the Spiritually Abusive Church description found under Bible-based cults for more clarification. Do you see anything that might apply to the 2x2's in this list? Be sure to be honest with yourself in evaluating this data since information is the key to revelation. That's kind of you to encourage me out of a dangerous cult Faune. It seems I need a revelation? If I did leave I wouldn't be jumping into a Trinitarian cult, or a Calvinist cult, or an Evangelical cult, or a Pentecostal cult. Or a JW, Mormon, SDA, or Scientology cult. So you can see I don't have many options. Perhaps the F&W will need to put up with me for a bit longer?
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Post by Mary on May 18, 2015 0:23:10 GMT -5
Whathat, these sects do the dividing by their own words. That sounds very judgemental and exclusive to me, Mary. What do you think? Not judgmental, just stating a fact. These groups isolate themselves from churches outside of their own.
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Post by Mary on May 18, 2015 0:23:49 GMT -5
Whathat, these sects do the dividing by their own words. Do F&W publish books condemning other churches? They preach it.
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Post by fixit on May 18, 2015 0:31:16 GMT -5
Do F&W publish books condemning other churches? They preach it. They preach their own doctrine, just as other groups do. It must be a long time since they preached an anti-other-group message as fiery as the preaching I've seen on this thread!
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Post by maryhig on May 18, 2015 2:17:04 GMT -5
That sounds very judgemental and exclusive to me, Mary. What do you think? Not judgmental, just stating a fact. These groups isolate themselves from churches outside of their own. Mary, would you go and join in the congregation in a catholic church who are worshipping and praying to the trinity that you also believe in?
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Post by dmmichgood on May 18, 2015 2:37:07 GMT -5
I understand you do not have preachers maryhig? Those in your meeting just you talk to people about Jesus in your daily life - is that right? There was Edward and then your uncle. No preachers as such since? No, no preachers as such. But that doesn't mean no one talks in or meeting. There are strong people in our meeting. It's just that they don't go out preaching. But they talk to anyone when they get a chance to that they meet. Maryhig, What about Mark 16:15? "Then Jesus said to them, "So wherever you go in the world, tell everyone the Good ... And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to the ... to them: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature."
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Post by maryhig on May 18, 2015 2:44:08 GMT -5
No, no preachers as such. But that doesn't mean no one talks in or meeting. There are strong people in our meeting. It's just that they don't go out preaching. But they talk to anyone when they get a chance to that they meet. Maryhig, What about Mark 16:15? "Then Jesus said to them, "So wherever you go in the world, tell everyone the Good ... And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to the ... to them: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature."
DMG there's no way I would join a congregation in worshipping God when they have statues of Mary and worship her over God and following Jesus, and who have a leader who they make into a God on earth! I would mix with the people, and I would talk about God with them. But I wouldn't worship God with them in their churches no!
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Post by What Hat on May 18, 2015 4:30:30 GMT -5
That sounds very judgemental and exclusive to me, Mary. What do you think? Not judgmental, just stating a fact. These groups isolate themselves from churches outside of their own. I see what you're saying. Because in your earlier post you said they "do their dividing by their own words". That struck me as judgemental because while the friends "have their own words", it's the anti cult movement churches that are doing the dividing. Do you think your church would be friendly to churches calling it a cult? Seems like isolation is a two way street.
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Post by fixit on May 18, 2015 5:33:53 GMT -5
Not judgmental, just stating a fact. These groups isolate themselves from churches outside of their own. I see what you're saying. Because in your earlier post you said they "do their dividing by their own words". That struck me as judgemental because while the friends "have their own words", it's the anti cult movement churches that are doing the dividing. Do you think your church would be friendly to churches calling it a cult? Seems like isolation is a two way street. In the early days of the F&W movement there was interaction with other groups. I suspect you're right - isolation would be a two way street.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 8:02:29 GMT -5
These characteristics may be applicable to cults in general, but almost all of them do not apply to the fellowship as I know it, particularly the last one. Here's the description given of common characteristics found within any religious cult. Do you see anything on this list that you can relate to personally? I believe the last item on this list relating to the leadership within such groups sums it up quite well. ~ "Adherents to these groups fail to realize that they are in a cult and under mind control. Often the leaders are the most brainwashed of all." ~ WHAT RELIGIOUS CULTS HAVE IN COMMON: •Their way is the only way. A "we alone are right" mentality. •Their vague doctrine is to be accepted but not necessarily understood. - That's rubbish, how can we follow something we don't understand? The doctrine isn't vague either, and it's all in the Bible for anyone to research for themselves.•Members are conformed by the group not transformed by God. - More rubbish, the whole point is to be transformed by God, without that we'd be wasting our time. •They reject the One Triune God--the Christian belief in God as God the Father, God the Son (Jesus - John 1:1, 1:14), and God the Holy Spirit. As a result they worship "another" Jesus. - We may not fully understand the union between God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, but we do not worship "another Jesus" and we do not need the trinity terminology to follow the teachings of Jesus.•Only their group knows and has the truth. They claim a "special revelation." - this is a duplication of point 1•Not even scripture is as powerful as the group's unwritten rules and traditions. - completely untrue. Our doctrine is the scriptures, particularly the words of Jesus. The traditions of men are not taught as doctrine.•Members distrust themselves but trust completely in the group's beliefs and leaders. - we trust completely in our leader, Jesus, and his words, and accept that we are human and therefore not perfect•Members are secretive about what goes on "inside" and "things" get protected behind walls of silence. - Any questions I've ever asked have been answered. •Living a double life is common. - I do not know anyone leading a double life. Anyone doing this is only fooling themselves.•A flaw in the group is viewed as a flaw in the member who sees it. - that's rubbish•Leaders brush off questions they don't have scriptural answers for. - not in my experience •Authoritarian leaders reinforce blind obedience to the groups "standards." - No. If the spirit is opening people's eyes, they won't need 'blind obedience'•Individual interpretation or deviation is not allowed. - God isn't going to accept us if we deviate from the words of Jesus, and don't learn to correctly interpret, or 'rightly divide the word of truth'•There is a need to emulate the leaders. The group may have similar mannerisms, clothing styles, hair styles, modes of speech and attitudes. - there is a need to emulate our leader - Jesus. There are bound to be similarities in people who are all trying to become like Jesus.•Any attack on the group simply verifies the group's importance to the members. - no, doesn't change anything•Members who faithfully follow the group's beliefs and traditions are considered special, chosen, hearty "saints." - this could probably be said of any religion on earth. Being 'hearty' brings a lot more joy and peace than being 'half-hearted'•There is no means by which a member can appeal a decision. The followers have no rights. Dissidents are disfellowshipped. - God is the final judge. •Salvation by Grace is not preached. (Eph.2:8,9) - that chapter is preached about, but so are all the other places that tell us God requires something from us.•Failing to remain faithful to the group is viewed as failing God or mankind. - failing to follow Jesus is failing God•There is a feeling of humble superiority among the members. - humble, yes. superior, no.•Members accept a counterfeit peace, joy and unity which, in reality, doesn't exit. - definitely nothing counterfeit about the peace, joy and unity that so many of us are enjoying. I'm sorry you haven't experienced the reality of it, but it most certainly exists.•Behavior is legislated. Obedience to the leaders is mandatory. - obedience to Jesus is mandatory, he is our leader•Individuality is viewed as bad and conformity within the group is good. There is a dependence on the group. - again, it's about conformity with Jesus, not about following each other•Leaders encourage members to work and produce "fruit", putting "their" people back under the law, from which Christ died to set us free. - producing the fruits of the spirit does not put us back under the law. "The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law" Galatians 5. Why would anyone not want to have those marks in their lives? •Lavish attention and love is shown to new or prospective members. Later, love is conditional; dependent on a member's good performance. - That's rubbish. People may get extra help in the beginning, but love is not conditional on performance. A person's own joy and peace will depend on their performance.•There is an unwritten rule that members must not discuss any negative feelings they may have about the group. - no unwritten rules about that•Members shun ex-members. - That's an unfair generalisation. Some people leave and continue to get on well with friends and family. There's always a certain level of separation between people who don't share the same beliefs and don't enjoy the same things.•There is instilled in the members a fear of "losing out", of suffering a lost eternity, should they ever leave the group. - Anyone who reads the Bible should have a fear of going to a lost eternity if they don't continue to follow Jesus.•Members alternate between happiness at being chosen to know the "truth", and the crushing weight of guilt, fear and shame for "not measuring up." - Third option - do the best you can and there'll be no crushing weight of guilt. The sacrifice of Jesus covers our shortcomings if we are genuinely trying to serve him.•Adherents to these groups fail to realize that they are in a cult and under mind control. Often the leaders are the most brainwashed of all. - See, we're not in a cult. No mind control. No brainwashing. God is in control, and the Holy Spirit is guiding.
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Post by maryhig on May 18, 2015 9:06:04 GMT -5
These characteristics may be applicable to cults in general, but almost all of them do not apply to the fellowship as I know it, particularly the last one. Here's the description given of common characteristics found within any religious cult. Do you see anything on this list that you can relate to personally? I believe the last item on this list relating to the leadership within such groups sums it up quite well. ~ "Adherents to these groups fail to realize that they are in a cult and under mind control. Often the leaders are the most brainwashed of all." ~ WHAT RELIGIOUS CULTS HAVE IN COMMON: •Their way is the only way. A "we alone are right" mentality. •Their vague doctrine is to be accepted but not necessarily understood. - That's rubbish, how can we follow something we don't understand? The doctrine isn't vague either, and it's all in the Bible for anyone to research for themselves.•Members are conformed by the group not transformed by God. - More rubbish, the whole point is to be transformed by God, without that we'd be wasting our time. •They reject the One Triune God--the Christian belief in God as God the Father, God the Son (Jesus - John 1:1, 1:14), and God the Holy Spirit. As a result they worship "another" Jesus. - We may not fully understand the union between God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, but we do not worship "another Jesus" and we do not need the trinity terminology to follow the teachings of Jesus.•Only their group knows and has the truth. They claim a "special revelation." - this is a duplication of point 1•Not even scripture is as powerful as the group's unwritten rules and traditions. - completely untrue. Our doctrine is the scriptures, particularly the words of Jesus. The traditions of men are not taught as doctrine.•Members distrust themselves but trust completely in the group's beliefs and leaders. - we trust completely in our leader, Jesus, and his words, and accept that we are human and therefore not perfect•Members are secretive about what goes on "inside" and "things" get protected behind walls of silence. - Any questions I've ever asked have been answered. •Living a double life is common. - I do not know anyone leading a double life. Anyone doing this is only fooling themselves.•A flaw in the group is viewed as a flaw in the member who sees it. - that's rubbish•Leaders brush off questions they don't have scriptural answers for. - not in my experience •Authoritarian leaders reinforce blind obedience to the groups "standards." - No. If the spirit is opening people's eyes, they won't need 'blind obedience'•Individual interpretation or deviation is not allowed. - God isn't going to accept us if we deviate from the words of Jesus, and don't learn to correctly interpret, or 'rightly divide the word of truth'•There is a need to emulate the leaders. The group may have similar mannerisms, clothing styles, hair styles, modes of speech and attitudes. - there is a need to emulate our leader - Jesus. There are bound to be similarities in people who are all trying to become like Jesus.•Any attack on the group simply verifies the group's importance to the members. - no, doesn't change anything•Members who faithfully follow the group's beliefs and traditions are considered special, chosen, hearty "saints." - this could probably be said of any religion on earth. Being 'hearty' brings a lot more joy and peace than being 'half-hearted'•There is no means by which a member can appeal a decision. The followers have no rights. Dissidents are disfellowshipped. - God is the final judge. •Salvation by Grace is not preached. (Eph.2:8,9) - that chapter is preached about, but so are all the other places that tell us God requires something from us.•Failing to remain faithful to the group is viewed as failing God or mankind. - failing to follow Jesus is failing God•There is a feeling of humble superiority among the members. - humble, yes. superior, no.•Members accept a counterfeit peace, joy and unity which, in reality, doesn't exit. - definitely nothing counterfeit about the peace, joy and unity that so many of us are enjoying. I'm sorry you haven't experienced the reality of it, but it most certainly exists.•Behavior is legislated. Obedience to the leaders is mandatory. - obedience to Jesus is mandatory, he is our leader•Individuality is viewed as bad and conformity within the group is good. There is a dependence on the group. - again, it's about conformity with Jesus, not about following each other•Leaders encourage members to work and produce "fruit", putting "their" people back under the law, from which Christ died to set us free. - producing the fruits of the spirit does not put us back under the law. "The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law" Galatians 5. Why would anyone not want to have those marks in their lives? •Lavish attention and love is shown to new or prospective members. Later, love is conditional; dependent on a member's good performance. - That's rubbish. People may get extra help in the beginning, but love is not conditional on performance. A person's own joy and peace will depend on their performance.•There is an unwritten rule that members must not discuss any negative feelings they may have about the group. - no unwritten rules about that•Members shun ex-members. - That's an unfair generalisation. Some people leave and continue to get on well with friends and family. There's always a certain level of separation between people who don't share the same beliefs and don't enjoy the same things.•There is instilled in the members a fear of "losing out", of suffering a lost eternity, should they ever leave the group. - Anyone who reads the Bible should have a fear of going to a lost eternity if they don't continue to follow Jesus.•Members alternate between happiness at being chosen to know the "truth", and the crushing weight of guilt, fear and shame for "not measuring up." - Third option - do the best you can and there'll be no crushing weight of guilt. The sacrifice of Jesus covers our shortcomings if we are genuinely trying to serve him.•Adherents to these groups fail to realize that they are in a cult and under mind control. Often the leaders are the most brainwashed of all. - See, we're not in a cult. No mind control. No brainwashing. God is in control, and the Holy Spirit is guiding.Nor our meeting felicity, and you all don't seem like you belong to a cult to me either! I find it really hurtful! I see a cult as something like belonging to that Jonestown where they couldn't leave and feared for their lives. We can leave no problem, and can return if we want to! And we're not brainwashed either!
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Post by faune on May 18, 2015 10:39:00 GMT -5
Fixit ~ Atheists don't believe in the existence of any Creator God, so it stands to reason they would be more restrained in any condemnation of the 2x2 church or any of these fringe groups, which have distinctive qualities setting them apart from mainline Christianity. For instance, check out these Eight Aspects of Aberrational Groups under the Spiritually Abusive Church description found under Bible-based cults for more clarification. Do you see anything that might apply to the 2x2's in this list? Be sure to be honest with yourself in evaluating this data since information is the key to revelation. That's kind of you to encourage me out of a dangerous cult Faune. It seems I need a revelation? If I did leave I wouldn't be jumping into a Trinitarian cult, or a Calvinist cult, or an Evangelical cult, or a Pentecostal cult. Or a JW, Mormon, SDA, or Scientology cult. So you can see I don't have many options. Perhaps the F&W will need to put up with me for a bit longer? Fixit ~ The 2x2's are not a dangerous cult like some of these Mad Hatter groups, but it is a predictable one in what can be expected from leadership. However, it's interesting to note that Christianity was considered a cult in its earlier days until it was legalized as the religion of Rome in 381 A.D. However, during the early years, there were a number of fringe groups coming into existence along with their own gospel message, especially among the Gnostics. Even what was considered "orthodox Christianity" during the first century got obliterated by the RCC by the 4th century and the gap continued to widen over the succeeding centuries that followed along with the Inquisitions, Crusades, and Witch Hunts that became phenomenal during the Middle Ages in the name of RELIGION. It's no wonder people have their conception of religion today compared to its history down through the ages! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition
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Post by What Hat on May 18, 2015 10:39:20 GMT -5
I see what you're saying. Because in your earlier post you said they "do their dividing by their own words". That struck me as judgemental because while the friends "have their own words", it's the anti cult movement churches that are doing the dividing. Do you think your church would be friendly to churches calling it a cult? Seems like isolation is a two way street. In the early days of the F&W movement there was interaction with other groups. I suspect you're right - isolation would be a two way street. A further thought occurred to me. The friends are not 'isolationists' like a barricaded Waco group. Their subculture isolates them to a point - can't help but - but they work and blend into society for the most part. What Mary calls 'isolation' is a spat with other churches. Sure I would like to see that be different, but there is a history to that and it's not pretty on either side.
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Post by faune on May 18, 2015 10:51:31 GMT -5
What Hat ~ What about the workers claiming that any church groups and professing Christians outside of the 2x2's are NOT honored by God and the folks are on their way to Hell for not being a member of their "one and only way of salvation." Wouldn't you call that ISOLATION from outside groups ~ or have they changed their message along these lines, too? I really doubt it.
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Post by faune on May 18, 2015 11:09:32 GMT -5
I noticed that Maryhig Felicity said she did not know anybody who was leading a double life within the 2x2's, but perhaps she's not aware of the number of cases of convicted child molesters among the workers and some friends as found on WINGS? However, there were also workers who escaped going to jail for their crimes, like Ira Hobb, the past overseer in Texas, due to friends refusing to testify against him for fear of being shunned by the others or put out of the faith. Felicity shared...
wingsfortruth.info/
www.votisalive.com/content/update-50-plus-year-pedophile-ira-hobbs
wingsfortruth.info/breaking-the-silence-2/convicted-csa-offenders/
P.S. I made a mistake in names above and made a correction by a strike-out to reflect my error in poster and responder.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 11:27:19 GMT -5
I noticed that Maryhig said she did not know anybody who was leading a double life within the 2x2's, but perhaps she's not aware of the number of cases of convicted child molesters among the workers and some friends as found on WINGS? However, there were also workers who escaped going to jail for their crimes, like Ira Hobb, the past overseer in Texas, due to friends refusing to testify against him for fear of being shunned by the others or put out of the faith. wingsfortruth.info/ wingsfortruth.info/breaking-the-silence-2/convicted-csa-offenders/ Actually I said that, not Maryhig. I'm not sure if Maryhig has ever met any of the "2x2's". I am aware that there are a number of people who have done evil things, and were not what they were professing themselves to be, and it grieves me that this would be so. However, that is a very small minority. I know a lot of sincere, faithful, honest people who are enjoying serving God. We have been advised to report anything we know about criminal activities to the police, and I would have no fears of being shunned for telling the truth, but I have never come across anything criminal.
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Post by maryhig on May 18, 2015 11:29:15 GMT -5
I noticed that Maryhig said she did not know anybody who was leading a double life within the 2x2's, but perhaps she's not aware of the number of cases of convicted child molesters among the workers and some friends as found on WINGS? However, there were also workers who escaped going to jail for their crimes, like Ira Hobb, the past overseer in Texas, due to friends refusing to testify against him for fear of being shunned by the others or put out of the faith. wingsfortruth.info/ wingsfortruth.info/breaking-the-silence-2/convicted-csa-offenders/ No, I said the people I've spoken to on here don't seem cult like, and our people are in that cult list too and were definitely not a cult. There are child abusers everywhere, in Christian churches also. And as disgusting as it is, they're not only on the f&w's. I do feel it's wrong to cover anything like that up, but the f&w's I've spoken to on here have said it should be reported. I don't know a lot about the f&w's fellowship. But the people I have spoken to on this site seem genuinely nice people. I don't think it's nice to insult people because of their faith!
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