Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 20:19:50 GMT -5
There are two brothers I know: Older brother married and had two children with first wife, divorced her and left meeting. 20 years later after remarriage and two children by second wife came back to meeting. Helps his former father-in-law and former wife get to meeting and gospel meeting. Is always helping others in the meeting and in the area how ever he can. Wife number 2 is very friendly and nice to everyone. Younger brother is still married to first wife. Has meeting in his home. Has told me to my face that he could not stand the people that come to his house for meeting. Is gone most weekends while meeting is still in his home. People in his meeting are well aware of his attitude toward them. Who do you think God will judge as being fruitful to his kingdom??? well the older brother better hope this verse is true: Mat_10:42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
|
|
|
Post by rational on May 13, 2015 20:35:31 GMT -5
Regarding "faith cannot move an actual mountain."
Dunno about that, Rat, it did in the OT. Then too, even though the amount of faith (belief) required might be more than either of us can muster... I have valued how faith moved a literal mountain in the OT for decades. Much more to this issue than mere words. It would take as much faith to believe that it was a true/literal account. Remember there is also a tale of the sun moving backwards through its arc.
|
|
|
Post by rational on May 13, 2015 20:42:14 GMT -5
There are two brothers I know: Older brother married and had two children with first wife, divorced her and left meeting. 20 years later after remarriage and two children by second wife came back to meeting. Helps his former father-in-law and former wife get to meeting and gospel meeting. Is always helping others in the meeting and in the area how ever he can. Wife number 2 is very friendly and nice to everyone. Younger brother is still married to first wife. Has meeting in his home. Has told me to my face that he could not stand the people that come to his house for meeting. Is gone most weekends while meeting is still in his home. People in his meeting are well aware of his attitude toward them. Who do you think God will judge as being fruitful to his kingdom??? It's always tough to tell with god. I have heard that man cannot understand the mind of god so guessing is dangerous. On the other hand, maybe god is using the younger brother to test the people who continue to go to meeting a his house. And the people aware of it. How much will they tolerate? How much will they complain? Can biblical laws be broken but overlooked if the guilty person is nice and helpful to others? Sounds like a question without a good answer.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 21:38:33 GMT -5
Rat, you don't have the least idea of the account to which I am referring, do you? No matter, not something worth disputing, it is there and explains how faith (belief) can move a mountain. No, I am not going to share it publicly here, but will privately with anyone who PMs or emails asking.
|
|
|
Post by rational on May 13, 2015 23:08:08 GMT -5
Rat, you don't have the least idea of the account to which I am referring, do you? Specifically, no I don't. You did say it was in the OT so verification would be, at best, difficult. But then I am not a bible scholar. If I do read the bible I just do it in plain EModE and hope for the best. I don't know to what you are referring because you have not said.
I am not sure what your point is. To post some half explained thought that will cause people confusion and have to ask you for an explanation? You did the same thing in the EMP thread. A number of people posted a lot of information regarding electromagnetic pulse (EMF) and then you complained when it went off track. It went off track because no one was sure of the track. Several asked and the answer was that they could go to you for a private audience to learn the answer)s).Yet you don't think it is worth posting about?Is this a way to exert control over the discussion?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 5:37:02 GMT -5
Rat, "exhert control?"
If so, no more than you, sir, no more than you. Good day.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 14, 2015 5:51:37 GMT -5
I see faith moving a mountain as, just say there something you really find hard to stop doing in your heart, and you can't stop doing it. Faith in God can overcome anything. His love takes the bad things from with us and replaces then with good! Even things we thought we could never overcome! With God all things are possible! I've never seen about actual mountain being moved though, where did it say that in the bible, of you don't mind me asking? I'm just curious as is like to read about it
|
|
|
Post by rational on May 14, 2015 6:41:04 GMT -5
I see faith moving a mountain as, just say there something you really find hard to stop doing in your heart, and you can't stop doing it. Faith in God can overcome anything. His love takes the bad things from with us and replaces then with good! Even things we thought we could never overcome! This has been the driving force behind 12-step programs. Of late, questions have been raised regarding how well they work. The driving factor seems to be whether the individual wants to make a change in their behavior or not. With Sobering Science, Doctor Debunks 12-Step RecoveryThis is always a good response for beliefs that are founded on faith. Statements like this that cannot be falsified or refuted make it inherently impossible to be proved false. No doubt many would like to know and perhaps even discuss it. It seems like any discussion will not continue on this public forum. However, @dennisj has kindly offered to tell any interested individuals in private.
|
|
|
Post by kittens on May 24, 2015 1:39:02 GMT -5
If that's true, then it's sad, but I don't know anyone in that position. I know a lot of the young ones is Australia who would be in this position 1
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 16:23:24 GMT -5
I know a lot of the young ones is Australia who would be in this position Yep I know a lot of young professing girls in Australia who are on the pill too. A lot of the ones who are now in their 40's and 50's where too when they were single and a lot of the generation before that had premature babies for their first child after they were married. Don't think the pill was around then.
One reason why I didn't want to marry a professing boy. I couldn't stomach the thought of having to meet my husband's ex lover at meetings, specials and convention every year.
Felicity I admire your devotion to the meetings but I do think you are a little naïve about what really goes on or maybe deliberately blind. I'm not trying to pull the friends and workers down or discourage you but there is a time when you need to face facts. Maybe you have had an easy life as far as the meetings go so far but the ones who have been through the hard experiences (not always of their own making) can see that not everything is so black and white. I'm not naïve kittens. I know there are people who are not behaving like that. My husband and I did not do it before we were married, and that is the standard of behaviour we expect from our own children also. Fornication is a sin in the eyes of God, no matter how many people are doing it, and it has far-reaching consequences.
|
|
|
Post by kittens on May 24, 2015 17:56:15 GMT -5
Yep I know a lot of young professing girls in Australia who are on the pill too. A lot of the ones who are now in their 40's and 50's where too when they were single and a lot of the generation before that had premature babies for their first child after they were married. Don't think the pill was around then.
One reason why I didn't want to marry a professing boy. I couldn't stomach the thought of having to meet my husband's ex lover at meetings, specials and convention every year.
Felicity I admire your devotion to the meetings but I do think you are a little naïve about what really goes on or maybe deliberately blind. I'm not trying to pull the friends and workers down or discourage you but there is a time when you need to face facts. Maybe you have had an easy life as far as the meetings go so far but the ones who have been through the hard experiences (not always of their own making) can see that not everything is so black and white. I'm not naïve kittens. I know there are people who are not behaving like that. My husband and I did not do it before we were married, and that is the standard of behaviour we expect from our own children also. Fornication is a sin in the eyes of God, no matter how many people are doing it, and it has far-reaching consequences. 1
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on May 24, 2015 20:49:49 GMT -5
Yep I know a lot of young professing girls in Australia who are on the pill too. A lot of the ones who are now in their 40's and 50's where too when they were single and a lot of the generation before that had premature babies for their first child after they were married. Don't think the pill was around then.
One reason why I didn't want to marry a professing boy. I couldn't stomach the thought of having to meet my husband's ex lover at meetings, specials and convention every year.
Felicity I admire your devotion to the meetings but I do think you are a little naïve about what really goes on or maybe deliberately blind. I'm not trying to pull the friends and workers down or discourage you but there is a time when you need to face facts. Maybe you have had an easy life as far as the meetings go so far but the ones who have been through the hard experiences (not always of their own making) can see that not everything is so black and white. I'm not naïve kittens. I know there are people who are not behaving like that. My husband and I did not do it before we were married, and that is the standard of behaviour we expect from our own children also. Fornication is a sin in the eyes of God, no matter how many people are doing it, and it has far-reaching consequences. Felicity you sound like my mother. I fornicated befors marriage. Just too hot and lusty I guess. Silly me. I went to a conference yrs ago on this topic and the speaker ( forget his name) had not married. I think he was a Jew. Stated that if you fornicate before marriage that is your 'honeymoon then. '( that was true in my case)That if you wait until marriage your honeymoon will last your marriage. It had a lot to do with blessing from god. The people I know that waited even if just the female have all had/got happy marriages.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on May 24, 2015 20:56:40 GMT -5
Maryhig Matt17:20 "Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a grain of mustard seed you can say to this mountain "move from here to there" and it will move and nothing will be impossible for you." Also Mark 11 :23 Xx
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on May 24, 2015 21:01:40 GMT -5
I'm not naïve kittens. I know there are people who are not behaving like that. My husband and I did not do it before we were married, and that is the standard of behaviour we expect from our own children also. Fornication is a sin in the eyes of God, no matter how many people are doing it, and it has far-reaching consequences. I don't like it either. I think it's wrong but I know for certain quite a few of the single friends are doing it and have done it. The rest of them I am only assuming are not doing it. I'd like to think the majority of the friends are living to a much higher standard than others but the more I learn I'm starting to think it is the minority. By the way the ones on the pill are often the ones sitting in the front row at convention with pious looks on their faces and running after the workers. They can put on a good show and the workers think they are wonderful. They've been held up as an example to me and this really saddens me because if the workers can't pick the ones who are truly sincere then there is something wrong. Kittens your post reminds me so much of when I was young going to meetings. I dont ever judge outward appearance anymore. It isnt the truth about who a person is. The most pious religous righteous 'looking'person can be extreme opposite to what the workers are lead to think
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on May 25, 2015 0:23:13 GMT -5
There would be very few young ones in the "Fellowship" who didn't have sex before marriage, the only difference is that the girls are now on the pill ! Just because we expect a certain thing from our children does not mean that is what they will do ! All it does is put pressure on them to conform to our ideas. We can think we have all the answers but in fact we don't because we never know what life is going to throw at us and how we may have to change our view on so many things. (Things that have just been drummed into our heads by our parents of grandparents)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 3:02:48 GMT -5
I don't like it either. I think it's wrong but I know for certain quite a few of the single friends are doing it and have done it. The rest of them I am only assuming are not doing it. I'd like to think the majority of the friends are living to a much higher standard than others but the more I learn I'm starting to think it is the minority. By the way the ones on the pill are often the ones sitting in the front row at convention with pious looks on their faces and running after the workers. They can put on a good show and the workers think they are wonderful. They've been held up as an example to me and this really saddens me because if the workers can't pick the ones who are truly sincere then there is something wrong. There will be people who do things and appear to "get away with it" but God knows exactly what is going on, and He is the final judge. Anyone who doesn't face the consequences of their actions in lifetime will have to face it on the judgement day.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 3:15:19 GMT -5
There would be very few young ones in the "Fellowship" who didn't have sex before marriage, the only difference is that the girls are now on the pill ! Just because we expect a certain thing from our children does not mean that is what they will do ! All it does is put pressure on them to conform to our ideas. We can think we have all the answers but in fact we don't because we never know what life is going to throw at us and how we may have to change our view on so many things. (Things that have just been drummed into our heads by our parents of grandparents) How can you possibly know how many girls are on the pill?? That's true, we can't know what our children will end up doing. We can only teach them what's right, and lead by example, and pray that they'll make wise decisions themselves. We don't expect them to conform to our ideas, but we hope they will conform to God's ideas, which aren't going to change.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on May 25, 2015 3:39:13 GMT -5
I don't know the exact amount of girls on the pill, but I do know there are a lot more on the pill now than when I was young ! God's ideas may be different to our ideas but we don't tend to think of that. I know how I was raised in the 80's and all the rules I had to abide by and what for in the long run ? We can teach our children what we THINK is right but they have to decide for themselves. So many times children who are raised under strict rules rebel once they leave home, I think its better for children to experience the world before they marry & have children then decide to rebel at 30 & effect so many more lives !
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on May 25, 2015 3:39:51 GMT -5
I'm not naïve kittens. I know there are people who are not behaving like that. My husband and I did not do it before we were married, and that is the standard of behaviour we expect from our own children also. Fornication is a sin in the eyes of God, no matter how many people are doing it, and it has far-reaching consequences. Felicity you sound like my mother. I fornicated befors marriage. Just too hot and lusty I guess. Silly me. I went to a conference yrs ago on this topic and the speaker ( forget his name) had not married. I think he was a Jew. Stated that if you fornicate before marriage that is your 'honeymoon then. '( that was true in my case)That if you wait until marriage your honeymoon will last your marriage. It had a lot to do with blessing from god. The people I know that waited even if just the female have all had/got happy marriages. ehum, Bubbles, do you think it might possibly be that all the people you know didn't divulge such sensitive private information to you?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 4:31:39 GMT -5
I don't know the exact amount of girls on the pill, but I do know there are a lot more on the pill now than when I was young ! God's ideas may be different to our ideas but we don't tend to think of that. I know how I was raised in the 80's and all the rules I had to abide by and what for in the long run ? We can teach our children what we THINK is right but they have to decide for themselves. So many times children who are raised under strict rules rebel once they leave home, I think its better for children to experience the world before they marry & have children then decide to rebel at 30 & effect so many more lives ! I think it's better to fit in with the will of God and not to rebel at all If I know the will of God and don't tell my children, then I am responsible. If I tell them and they decide not to do it, then they are responsible.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on May 25, 2015 6:13:34 GMT -5
Yes Felicity it all wonderful to think I will never rebel ! But wow life can throw us some curve balls and until we are in a situation we do not know how we will react. Its like this thread people who have never been separated or divorced are so quick to say you cannot re-marry or even divorce BUT they have not been in that place so they have no idea what they are talking about ! We all like to think when we get married that its going to last for ever especially when we marry a "professing person" but that is not always the case, there are so many grey areas.
|
|
|
Post by ellie on May 25, 2015 7:05:33 GMT -5
I don't know the exact amount of girls on the pill, but I do know there are a lot more on the pill now than when I was young ! God's ideas may be different to our ideas but we don't tend to think of that. I know how I was raised in the 80's and all the rules I had to abide by and what for in the long run ? We can teach our children what we THINK is right but they have to decide for themselves. So many times children who are raised under strict rules rebel once they leave home, I think its better for children to experience the world before they marry & have children then decide to rebel at 30 & effect so many more lives ! I think it's better to fit in with the will of God and not to rebel at all If I know the will of God and don't tell my children, then I am responsible. If I tell them and they decide not to do it, then they are responsible. What exactly have you told, or are planning to tell, your children regarding the will of God?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 7:06:53 GMT -5
Yes Felicity it all wonderful to think I will never rebel ! But wow life can throw us some curve balls and until we are in a situation we do not know how we will react. Its like this thread people who have never been separated or divorced are so quick to say you cannot re-marry or even divorce BUT they have not been in that place so they have no idea what they are talking about ! We all like to think when we get married that its going to last for ever especially when we marry a "professing person" but that is not always the case, there are so many grey areas. Yes I know, most of us get curve balls thrown at us one way or another. Do you think only people who have gone through an experience can have compassion for those who are suffering? I haven't personally experienced separation or divorce, but that doesn't mean I don't understand what it says in the Bible on the subject, and it certainly doesn't mean that I don't feel the utmost sympathy and compassion for those to whom the verses apply.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 7:12:57 GMT -5
I think it's better to fit in with the will of God and not to rebel at all If I know the will of God and don't tell my children, then I am responsible. If I tell them and they decide not to do it, then they are responsible. What exactly have you told, or are planning to tell, your children regarding the will of God? Did you mean about any specific subject, or in general? It's an ongoing thing. We've been teaching them from the scriptures since they were old enough to listen. As they get older they need to understand the implications of marriage, fornication & divorce etc, which weren't things they needed to hear when they were younger.
|
|
|
Post by ellie on May 25, 2015 7:22:55 GMT -5
What exactly have you told, or are planning to tell, your children regarding the will of God? Did you mean about any specific subject, or in general? It's an ongoing thing. We've been teaching them from the scriptures since they were old enough to listen. As they get older they need to understand the implications of marriage, fornication & divorce etc, which weren't things they needed to hear when they were younger. I was thinking specifically related to fornication as I've not come across any young persons told anything much along these lines. One friend of mine looking into the subject could not find any passages in the King James bible relating to premarital sex
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 7:29:45 GMT -5
Did you mean about any specific subject, or in general? It's an ongoing thing. We've been teaching them from the scriptures since they were old enough to listen. As they get older they need to understand the implications of marriage, fornication & divorce etc, which weren't things they needed to hear when they were younger. I was thinking specifically related to fornication as I've not come across any young persons told anything much along these lines. One friend of mine looking into the subject could not find any passages in the King James bible relating to premarital sex Yeah, I can't ever recall my parents mentioning the topic. However, I prefer to talk to my children and then let them make an educated decision.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 12:20:00 GMT -5
Ellie - "fornication" is mentioned many times in the Bible. Do you not think that the term "fornication" includes premarital sex?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 15:34:40 GMT -5
Did you mean about any specific subject, or in general? It's an ongoing thing. We've been teaching them from the scriptures since they were old enough to listen. As they get older they need to understand the implications of marriage, fornication & divorce etc, which weren't things they needed to hear when they were younger. I was thinking specifically related to fornication as I've not come across any young persons told anything much along these lines. One friend of mine looking into the subject could not find any passages in the King James bible relating to premarital sex 1Co_7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. 1Co 7:8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. 1Co 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
1Co_7:36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.
and then fornication is mentioned here...
2Ch_21:11 Moreover he made high places in the mountains of Judah, and caused the inhabitants of Jerusalem to commit fornication, and compelled Judah thereto. Isa_23:17 And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth. Eze_16:26 Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy ladydoms, to provoke me to anger. Eze_16:29 Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith. Mat_5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Mat_19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Joh_8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Act_15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Act_15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. Act_21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. Rom_1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 1Co_5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 1Co_6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. 1Co_6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 1Co_7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. 1Co_10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 2Co_12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed. Gal_5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Eph_5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Col_3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 1Th_4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: Jud_1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Rev_2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. Rev_2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Rev_2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Rev_9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. Rev_14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Rev_17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. Rev_17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: Rev_18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. Rev_18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, Rev_19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great lady, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
|
|