bulsi
Junior Member
WHAT WE DO IN LIFE ECHOES IN ETERNITY !
Posts: 197
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Post by bulsi on Apr 17, 2015 9:48:12 GMT -5
It is clear by the Holy Bible that no one except Jesus has done this! Am I missing something Read John 3:13
Bulsi
So it's not taken out of context John 3: 11-14
11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
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Post by xna on Apr 17, 2015 9:55:48 GMT -5
It is clear by the Holy Bible that no one except Jesus has done this! Am I missing something Read John 3:13 Bulsi So it's not taken out of context John 3: 11-14 11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. I guess the angels know the two way road between heaven & earth
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Post by xna on Apr 17, 2015 10:43:12 GMT -5
Moses and Elijah came down from paradise/heaven and talked to Jesus on Mt. of transfiguration. There were dead believers came back from the dead, walking/talking to people after the death of Jesus.
Some believe in purgatory, & some a sleep period before judgement. It say Lazarus was dead for four days & no mention of going to heaven or hell, and then there was the walking dead in Jerusalem. They had been dead a lot longer I never heard the 2x2 position on this. Inquiring minds want to know. These heaven and back books could have it all wrong.
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Post by matisse on Apr 17, 2015 10:55:42 GMT -5
FWIW, the book genre is known as "Heaven Tourism".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 11:43:44 GMT -5
Paul was caught up to third paradise/heaven when he was stoned. John the apostle went to paradise/heaven when he received the revelation of the future events. Nathan, are you referring to the Beatles here? I know a lot of strange things happened during their LSD period. Matt10
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Post by maryhig on Apr 17, 2015 11:51:41 GMT -5
It is clear by the Holy Bible that no one except Jesus has done this! Am I missing something Read John 3:13 Bulsi So it's not taken out of context John 3: 11-14 You need to read the whole chapter. He's talking about the holy spirit. Like when he said to Nathanael Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man. They're ascending and descending upon Jesus so he's in heaven, just as his people enter the kingdom of God once his Spirit is within their hearts. Then you're mind is no longer on earthly things but on heavenly things.
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Post by xna on Apr 17, 2015 12:35:58 GMT -5
What does the Bible mean by the "third heaven"?
How many heavens are there? What does the apostle Paul mean when he writes about "the third heaven"?Answer: The Bible speaks of three different heavens. Genesis:1:1 says that God created "the heavens"—plural. The first heaven is the atmosphere around the earth. In describing the rain that brought on the Flood of Noah’s time, Genesis:7:11 says "the windows of heaven were opened." Commenting on the extent of the water, verse 19 says "all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered." The second heaven is commonly referred to as "outer space." Exodus:32:13 is one of many references to "the stars of heaven." Stars are not in the skies from which the rain falls, but in the space beyond our atmosphere. Nehemiah:9:6 also refers to space as heaven: "You alone are the Lord; you have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host [the planets and stars]." A "third heaven" is mentioned in 2 Corinthians:12:1-4Paul also called it "Paradise" in verse 4. That word is from the Greek word for park or garden—not just any park or garden, but a magnificent one. It’s the same word used in the standard Greek translation of the Old Testament, the Septuagint, to mean the Garden of Eden. Revelation:4:2 reveals that God’s throne is in heaven, but which one? Obviously, God’s throne is not in the sky where the clouds are and the birds fly—the first heaven. Nor is it in the visible confines of outer space—the second heaven. Putting this reference together with what Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians , we discern that the third heaven, then, must refer to the location of the throne of God.
www.ucg.org/bible-faq/what-does-bible-mean-third-heaven Which heaven is this one? Revelation 21:1 1. "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea., Choices A. 1st heaven B. 2nd heaven C. 3rd heaven
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Post by maryhig on Apr 17, 2015 12:46:01 GMT -5
What does the Bible mean by the "third heaven"?
How many heavens are there? What does the apostle Paul mean when he writes about "the third heaven"?Answer: The Bible speaks of three different heavens. Genesis:1:1 says that God created "the heavens"—plural. The first heaven is the atmosphere around the earth. In describing the rain that brought on the Flood of Noah’s time, Genesis:7:11 says "the windows of heaven were opened." Commenting on the extent of the water, verse 19 says "all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered." The second heaven is commonly referred to as "outer space." Exodus:32:13 is one of many references to "the stars of heaven." Stars are not in the skies from which the rain falls, but in the space beyond our atmosphere. Nehemiah:9:6 also refers to space as heaven: "You alone are the Lord; you have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host [the planets and stars]." A "third heaven" is mentioned in 2 Corinthians:12:1-4Paul also called it "Paradise" in verse 4. That word is from the Greek word for park or garden—not just any park or garden, but a magnificent one. It’s the same word used in the standard Greek translation of the Old Testament, the Septuagint, to mean the Garden of Eden. Revelation:4:2 reveals that God’s throne is in heaven, but which one? Obviously, God’s throne is not in the sky where the clouds are and the birds fly—the first heaven. Nor is it in the visible confines of outer space—the second heaven. Putting this reference together with what Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians , we discern that the third heaven, then, must refer to the location of the throne of God.
www.ucg.org/bible-faq/what-does-bible-mean-third-heaven Which heaven is this one? Revelation 21:1 1. "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea., Choices A. 1st heaven B. 2nd heaven C. 3rd heaven That's heaven in your heart, when your old life had gone and you have been born again, the new earth is the body and the new heaven is the heart. Like when Paul said For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
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Post by xna on Apr 17, 2015 12:49:40 GMT -5
Which heaven is this one? Revelation 21:1 1. "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea., Choices A. 1st heaven B. 2nd heaven C. 3rd heaven That's heaven in your heart, when your old life had gone and you have been born again, the new earth is the body and the new heaven is the heart. Like when Paul said For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. is the heart. Ok so which one is the highest heaven. A,B or C? 1 kings 8 27 “But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built! 2
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 12:50:21 GMT -5
For anyone experiencing something phenomenal, they grow quite used to the sarcasm, ridicule and dismissal of any accounting of it. I know, for I am one, have been told outright my experience never happened, I am crazy, was halucinating, every response possible, except to believe my account.
It happened, in fact when I had no assurance of my salvation, due to my lifetime of 2&2 ministry indoctrination. The year was about 1983, which is no longer important to me. At home growing very very ill for the first time since that severe flu bug hit me while I was alone in northern Sweden, and almost died in late 1969, or so I was later told. Actually except for that horrid pedestrian victim of an uninsured drunken driver assalt, hit according to police estimates @ about 55 mph, hurled through the air into the on coming traffic lane, when just before (or at, I will never know for sure) initial impact and expecting not to live grieving for believing I was leaving two children without a father to teach/tell of the God I believed in, out of a great light an overpowering voice said, "you will live to see those children raised..." and the next conscious thought was to protect my head.
It is important for me to relate these two occurrences together, because of that "voice!" As I lay in bed at home very very ill, wracked with pain and fever, suddenly I was in another awareness, wonderful, pain free, rejoicing at being in a "saved" eternity, understanding many things I have been unable to speak of since. Just as suddenly I heard The Voice once again, saying, "you may stay, or you may go back." Instantly I remembered hearing it before, and becoming aware my children were not yet raised, with great sorrow, KNEW I had to "go back."
Since, in merely relating these things, in this forum and occasionally elsewhere, my account is not believed or dismissed as that of a crazy man. What such people do not know is that I myself afterwards wondered if I were loosing my mind, and immediately upon recovering went to be evaluated. Then, as more recently, and in my military psyc file, it has been recorded that perception, knowledge and awaress wise, they record as being beyond the range of the tests. Lest I also be exalted above my fellow man, I too, have been given a thorn (maybe several of them) in the flesh, for which my God's grace alone is sufficient.
Since, I have maintained contact with believing and non-believing mental health professionals at the VA. Not one has raised the slightest doubt about my sanity, or intellect. I do what is expected of me by sharing these experiences repeatedly. I defy anyone to find discrepancies in my account over the years. Further, I simply dismiss the explanations others think they alone have thought of or considered. Yes, I know, this grates on the very existence of non-believers, which is their problem and not mine. No, I have not been out of my body for three days, etc.
It is merely a matter of what one believes true, and I know what I believe true, no matter who nor how disparagingly anyone else thinks of me, or my account. Over and over I find myself simply thinking "que sera, sera."
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Post by xna on Apr 17, 2015 12:52:21 GMT -5
Which heaven is this one? Revelation 21:1 1. "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea., Choices A. 1st heaven B. 2nd heaven C. 3rd heaven None of the above. God will destroy the A.B.C. old heavens and earth. Peter wrote in II Peter 3:9-13
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
God will destroy the Old heavens and earth and He will start a new heaven and new earth for His born again sons and daughters in Revelation 21:1So 3 old and 1 new. 3 + 1 = 4 heavens
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Post by maryhig on Apr 17, 2015 12:58:35 GMT -5
That's heaven in your heart, when your old life had gone and you have been born again, the new earth is the body and the new heaven is the heart. Like when Paul said For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. is the heart. Ok so which one is the highest heaven. A,B or C? 1 kings 8 27 “But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built! 2 Yes once we are born again ◄ John 14 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. A temple that man has built can't contain him, only a temple built without hands can. Which is is when we let Christ into our hearts and we are changed. Right I'm off to the meeting
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 13:28:00 GMT -5
Nathan, are you referring to the Beatles here? I know a lot of strange things happened during their LSD period. Matt10 Paul wasn't on LSD. It seemed he was writing about his near death experience, perhaps God showed him what await for him in paradise to true to his calling as an apostle/sent one.
I'm pretty sure Paul took LSD at some stage. I think that explains why his later writings are much more spiritual than his early work. As for his near death experience, I know there were rumours at one time that he was actually dead which turned out later to be untrue. When John said that he and Paul and the others were more popular than Jesus many people agreed with him which could explain why we know so much more of what Paul and John wrote than Jesus. Matt10
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 15:03:03 GMT -5
some say the first heaven was the one before Christ died the second heaven is the one since Christ died and the third heaven is the one to come....
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Post by bubbles on Apr 17, 2015 15:35:59 GMT -5
It is clear by the Holy Bible that no one except Jesus has done this! Am I missing something Read John 3:13 Bulsi So it's not taken out of context John 3: 11-14 11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. Yes you are missing something. You are contradicting your own statement. See that bit where it says...'ye believe not..how shall ye believe..if I tell you of heavenly things'
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Post by fixit on Apr 17, 2015 16:01:04 GMT -5
some say the first heaven was the one before Christ died the second heaven is the one since Christ died and the third heaven is the one to come.... The apostle Paul knew something about the third heaven it seems...
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 17, 2015 16:39:32 GMT -5
Paul was caught up to third paradise/heaven when he was stoned. John the apostle went to paradise/heaven when he received the revelation of the future events. Nathan, are you referring to the Beatles here? I know a lot of strange things happened during their LSD period. Matt10
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Post by matisse on Apr 18, 2015 7:36:50 GMT -5
I experienced what I have come to call a "waking dream" that was the result of a simple change in breathing pattern at a Yoga retreat. Long dead people "appeared" and "interacted" with me during what was for me a very positive experience. We had been told ahead of time, that some people might have profound reactions. (Even this suggestion may have helped "prime" the experience.) I have not had, nor have I tried to have, a similar experience since that weekend.
I came away from the weekend with a new appreciation of how easy it is for our brains to shift into altered states, and just how spendid those altered states can be. In relating the experience here on TMB in a discussion of "NDE", some posters immediately began suggesting that it had really been a vision from God....or perhaps from Satan.
"Dismissal" goes both ways!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 8:40:00 GMT -5
I came away from the weekend with a new appreciation of how easy it is for our brains to shift into altered states, and just how spendid those altered states can be. In relating the experience here on TMB in a discussion of "NDE", some posters immediately began suggesting that it had really been a vision from God....or perhaps from Satan.
I come away most weekends with an appreciation of how easy it is for our brains it shift into altered states and how splendid these altered states can be, mainly as a result of going down the pub on a Friday after work. Matt10
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Post by What Hat on Apr 18, 2015 10:03:37 GMT -5
Paul wasn't on LSD. It seemed he was writing about his near death experience, perhaps God showed him what await for him in paradise to true to his calling as an apostle/sent one.
I'm pretty sure Paul took LSD at some stage. I think that explains why his later writings are much more spiritual than his early work. As for his near death experience, I know there were rumours at one time that he was actually dead which turned out later to be untrue. When John said that he and Paul and the others were more popular than Jesus many people agreed with him which could explain why we know so much more of what Paul and John wrote than Jesus. Matt10 There are many who say that George was wiser than both John and Paul. And I would agree.
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Post by What Hat on Apr 18, 2015 10:06:05 GMT -5
I came away from the weekend with a new appreciation of how easy it is for our brains to shift into altered states, and just how spendid those altered states can be. In relating the experience here on TMB in a discussion of "NDE", some posters immediately began suggesting that it had really been a vision from God....or perhaps from Satan.
I come away most weekends with an appreciation of how easy it is for our brains it shift into altered states and how splendid these altered states can be, mainly as a result of going down the pub on a Friday after work. Matt10 Ah ... you are one who follows Ringo.
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Post by What Hat on Apr 18, 2015 10:15:08 GMT -5
It is clear by the Holy Bible that no one except Jesus has done this! Am I missing something Read John 3:13 Bulsi So it's not taken out of context John 3: 11-14 11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. Satan knows all about heaven, of course. His witness is thought to be inaccurate.
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