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Post by bubbles on Apr 10, 2015 20:49:17 GMT -5
Nathan my point was that people on meds for mental illness should cont taking their meds. Pastors deal with spiritual problems. Theres 2 things going on here. I would never suggest to someone to stop meds. If after deliverance they are healed. Then the doc would see that. Then quit the prescription.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 10, 2015 20:52:49 GMT -5
Kurtz a lot of churches never lay on hands anoint with oil or pray for their people. It can be one of the greatest blessing to a human being.
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Post by Mary on Apr 10, 2015 21:31:38 GMT -5
Nathan, I am trying to work out what you are saying regarding Pentecostals? Are you saying that you learned about demons in the Pentecostal church as they believe and do deliverance to free people from demons which is correct or are you saying you became possessed of a demon in the Pentecostal church and meeting the workers freed you?
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Apr 10, 2015 21:39:38 GMT -5
Kurtz a lot of churches never lay on hands anoint with oil or pray for their people. It can be one of the greatest blessing to a human being. Agreed! It would seem many folks in many a church have an aversion to it. But, from what we read in the Bible, Jesus did NOT have an aversion to such things...
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Apr 10, 2015 21:45:46 GMT -5
Nathan my point was that people on meds for mental illness should con't taking their meds. Pastors deal with spiritual problems. Theres 2 things going on here. I would never suggest to someone to stop meds. If after deliverance they are healed. Then the doc would see that. Then quit the prescription. ~~ I agree. Stay on the med... but when the Dr. believes you're fine then get off the med. There are many side effects with the meds that is NOT good for the body and mind.The only problem with that, Nate is you shouldn't put all your trust in doctors either. They may think someone is now verifiably 'fine', but what are they going on? They may not have all the facts about the patients daily behaviors and/or what all is really going through a person's MIND. Many people, including the mentally ill, are able to present well at certain times. Doctors and nurses are fooled every day into thinking someone is 'fine' when in reality they may NOT be fine! Call me a skeptic, but many folks are in too big a hurry to 'get off the meds' as if they are some sort of superior human being because they have chosen to 'go natural'.
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Post by Mary on Apr 10, 2015 21:47:15 GMT -5
Side effects are usually temporary, Nathan. Meaning if a person has any side effects they disappear after the person is off the medication. Like anything, you don't go off them suddenly but give the body time to adjust slowly to coming off them. Far better a few side effects than the depression or anxiety or worse that the person has to live with. Many people go off the mediation because they are feeling good. They do not realise they feel good because of the medication until they go off it and find they are not fine. Medication has been life changing for many many people who say they wish they had gone on it years ago.
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Post by bitterbetty on Apr 10, 2015 21:54:08 GMT -5
The only problem with that, Nate is you shouldn't put all your trust in doctors either. They may think someone is now verifiably 'fine', but what are they going on? They may not have all the facts about the patients daily behaviors and/or what all is really going through a person's MIND. Many people, including the mentally ill, are able to present well at certain times. Doctors and nurses are fooled every day into thinking someone is 'fine' when in reality they may NOT be fine! Call me a skeptic, but many folks are in too big a hurry to 'get off the meds' as if they are some sort of superior human being because they have chosen to 'go natural'. If my memory serves me correctly (and some days it doesn't) especially with my parents generation, there is a certain amount of pious PRIDE in not requiring medication. I also got that message from various workers who probably got it from other workers and so it goes. If a person needed some sort of psychotropic it was kept hidden and looked down on. Pills, of any variety, were to be avoided at all costs, especially the psychotropics. To admit needing a medication was to admit being weak. Maybe I've got this wrong, Nate correct me if I am wrong, but do the friends and workers frown on medication like they used to? Realize that I am very biased, of course as I spent 30+ years of my life giving drugs/chemicals to people. I know the pros and cons, etc. But my attitude is if a person needs meds they need meds. It's nothing to be ASHAMED of!
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Post by bitterbetty on Apr 10, 2015 22:00:25 GMT -5
Side effects are usually temporary, Nathan. Meaning if a person has any side effects they disappear after the person is off the medication. Like anything, you don't go off them suddenly but give the body time to adjust slowly to coming off them. Far better a few side effects than the depression or anxiety or worse that the person has to live with. Many people go off the mediation because they are feeling good. They do not realise they feel good because of the medication until they go off it and find they are not fine. Medication has been life changing for many many people who say they wish they had gone on it years ago. For obvious reasons if you stop a drug, the side effects of such drug will stop too. But some meds have side effects when a person first goes on them that decrease or subside in magnitude as they adjust to being on the medication. Other side effects are with the person as long as they take the med, but they have determined that the benefits they get from the med outweigh the side effects.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 11, 2015 1:00:40 GMT -5
There is language in this thread with regards to how Satan and his 'realm' does or does not work and how those powers of darkness are manifested. I don't refute that people can be demon possessed, etc. But, in my opinion, Satan works MOST effectively not by OBVIOUS signs and symptoms. The subtle serpent who you don't know is there until it's right under your feet. This is why DENYING there is a 'problem' is music to the enemy's proverbial 'ears'. DENIAL. But, remember, Jesus advised His own disciple's to be 'wise as serpents', but gentle as doves. Does this mean to stoop to the enemy's level, no, taken in context, not. It may mean simply put: Don't be fooled... There are verses that describe him.. Father of lies. John 8: 44"ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father ye will do"Accuser of the bretheren. Rev 12 and Job 1 Deceiver. Gen 3:4,5 "The serpent said to the woman. You shall surely not die. For god knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened and you will be like god knowing good and evil."
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Post by bubbles on Apr 11, 2015 1:05:25 GMT -5
Nathan, I am trying to work out what you are saying regarding Pentecostals? Are you saying that you learned about demons in the Pentecostal church as they believe and do deliverance to free people from demons which is correct or are you saying you became possessed of a demon in the Pentecostal church and meeting the workers freed you? The workers freed me.
I received demons spirits and was possessed after I became a member of the Assembly of God. I spoke in tongues. words or sound keep on coming of my mouth non-stop for hours. I had strength I couldn't have done it myself, and in a trance, and did all kinds of weird things. I felt the need to be delivered from bondage of the demons. My friend, and brother witnessed what had happened to me in front of many witnesses at one of my friends home. So, we went to our church pastor and ask if he could cast out whatever it was possessing me. He laid his hand on my head, prayed, and tried to cast out in Jesus name! no avail.
In 1978 the workers were having Bible Studies on campus lawn of the University of Guam, two days a week from 12-3 PM. I asked uncle Leo Stancliff the senior worker about Speaking in tongues, and baptism of the Holy Spirit. He explained these subjects to me and once I knew the truth, whatever it was, hasn't come back.
Nate has anyone given you a word of knowledge regarding this? It seems like you are blaming baptism of the holy spirit? Correct me if Im wrong.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 11, 2015 1:35:20 GMT -5
Nate has anyone given you a word of knowledge regarding this? Yes, God, uncle Leo, and myself. Uncle Leo had a good understanding and knowledge of the Pentecostal baptism of the spirit and the gift speaking in tongues. When I was in the presence of the workers (Leo, Larry, Angie, Hazel, Bob and John) the spirit I received from the Pentecostal never came forth, it was under subjection and under control. Their spirits seemed over power than the ones were possessing me.It seems like you are blaming baptism of the holy spirit? Correct me if Im wrong. ~~ It wasn't the baptism of the Holy Spirit like we read in the book of Acts. It was a counterfeit type of baptism of the Holy Spirit.... It looked like the real thing but the feelings, and spirit somehow didn't feel right.So you think this was something over the local church? I havent heard of anything like this happening before. Did the holy spirit show Leo the name if it? You know how it says to "be careful who you allow to lay hands on you." 1 Tim 5:22 "Lay hands suddenly on no man neither be partaker of other mens sins. Keep yourself pure." When I did a study on this many yrs ago. I heeded the warning quite a few times. People wanted to lay hands on me. People i was not comfortable with for one reason or another. Spiritual impartation can happen. It could have come from the person.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 11, 2015 1:50:25 GMT -5
So you think this was something over the local church? I havent heard of anything like this happening before. Did the holy spirit show Leo the name if it? Uncle Leo, the worker had attended the Pentecostal church services. Then he prayed and studied the subject speaking in tongues, and the Pentecostal slain the spirit baptism. I met many 2x2 workers when I was in the work and they don't have the knowledge and understanding like Uncle Leo had. He shared with me the scriptures knowledge and with my experience I was able unlock the mystery God has given me.... as years go on... I meditate, pray and try to understand more of these things for myself.Thats good. In my experience of the gift of tongues. Which is a gift of the holy spirit. I have never heard of the tongue being a demonic tongue. Theres a verse where he says... Matt 7: 11 If ye then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him" Based on that verse Im thinking did you recieve the gift of tongues because you said you were speaking in another tongue and also was an evil spirit imparted from someone nr you at that time. You said you felt strongly and spoke in tongues a long time. Which sounds to me like your spirit was interceeding knowing something was wrong. But you couldnt discern what had happened being innocent. So it took uncle leo to help. Do you witness to any of my suggestion. IMO both could have happened. Ive known leaders who have lacked discernment with other leaders whom they have allowed to pray for others on alter calls. That is where im coming from.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 11, 2015 4:12:17 GMT -5
Has anyone else wondered why the Jews in this area were keeping three little piggies when they were banned from pork chop consumption?
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Post by Mary on Apr 11, 2015 4:48:00 GMT -5
Good question curly. Wonder if someone will come up with an answer to that question.
Keeping pigs: This was deemed unclean, hence a Middle Eastern society keeping large stocks of pigs would destroy their ecosystem. (wikipedia)
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 11, 2015 5:09:39 GMT -5
The Assembly of God is a good Bible based church more that I would say for the workers church. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is of God. Seems like Leo probably did not believe in speaking in tongues or any other sign of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit so was just going by his human understanding. It obviously had not happened to him so he dismissed it as false like so many things the workers have dismissed as false. Speaking in tongues was in the New Testament church and in their meetings. And I don't want pages of your study Nathan on why you do not believe in it. I go by the Bible. I wonder how many people would recognise Jesus today if he came to earth like he did 2,000 years ago which is the same as I wonder how many people know the Baptism of the Holy Spirit or speaking in tongues when they see it today like they did in the Bible. What you see in churches is very much like what happened in the Bible and according to the Bible will not cease until Jesus comes. A church that does not believe in signs and wonders, is a dead church. The workers do not even believe that the apostles healed saying it was spiritual healing, that ones eyes are opened when they accept the workers. I heard that for years in meetings. The workers do not do deliverance and casting out demons like they did in the Bible. They don’t lay hands on people and pray like they did in the Bible. It says signs and wonders will follow those who believe but the workers do not believe in signs and wonders nor do they see them in their midst. Jesus said that if you cast out in my name then you are for me not against me or words to that effect. You say you believe in demons but you do not seem to believe in the power of the Holy Spirit in tongues. You say that is of the devil when the Bible is clear it is of God. You see the devil everywhere Nathan. You give too much power to the devil. He loves the attention you give him. Give the glory to God, not the devil for the work of God in people’s lives through the filling of the Holy Spirit in signs and wonders. The workers lack that power in their ministry and say that man's own effort like going out 2x2 is the sign of Jesus in a person's life. I say no, anyone can do that, it is man's works. The Holy Spirit comes in signs and wonders which is part of the great commission but you say it is of the devil. I find it interesting that most of your beliefs about aliens, demons, the Trinity, them being from the Waldensians and Faith Mission etc are not what the workers believe so I wonder why you are not in a church that preaches what you believe. I have wondered the same thing Mary...
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Post by Greg on Apr 11, 2015 7:00:07 GMT -5
~~ William Irvine, John Long, Jack and May Carroll, and a few of the other workers were Faith Mission preachers and Faith Mission Union Prayers members.... They believe and taught the Trinity, deity of Christ... You do not know if they believed and taught that.
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Post by Greg on Apr 11, 2015 8:30:10 GMT -5
You do not know if they believed and taught that. John Long's Journal in 1899 wrote:William Irvine's Doctrines & Leaderships: "Concerning the principals of the Doctrine of Christ, he [Wm Irvine] was sound. He believed in the fall of man, in the Atonement, in the Trinity, in the Divinity of our Lord, in the immortality of the soul, in the resurrection of the body, the inspiration of the Bible, in Heaven for the saved, and in Hell for the lost. He believed in a personal Devil, the enemy of God and man. He believed and taught Repentance and that every person can be saved and know it, and that the conditions of Salvation were "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9.
He taught that every saved soul is indwelt by the Spirit of Christ; and that the life of Jesus, is the pattern for everyone to imitate and follow; and that the life of forsaking all for Christ's sake was the best to live. The fruits of that teaching resulted in farmers, shop keepers, domestic servants, school teachers, police, soldiers, and persons of every occupation forsaking all that they had to follow Jesus; and to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God."
"In either secular or religious matters, he was a born leader of men; he was a holy man, and practical. In personal dealing, he was preeminently the best conversationalist I ever met, and skillful in soul winning. He had a marvelous insight into the deep things of God's word, and like his Master, was an apt teacher of all who received the truth with pleasure. He always set forth the cross, and was a swift witness against all pride, vainglory and hypocrisy; he was severe on Christians, but merciful to sinners. In prayer, praise, and preaching he excelled in joy, liberty, and power. He was very much opposed and misunderstood by religious people; nevertheless, the common people liked him and heard him gladly." (From: John Long's Journal) As of 1899 according to the above, William Irvine might have believed in the trinity, if John Long actually knew this. As of 1899. Hard to know what h believed afterwards and what he taught.
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Post by Greg on Apr 11, 2015 8:34:44 GMT -5
You do not know if they believed and taught that. Jack T. Carroll (1898 2x2 worker) 1952. The letters in the N. T. have a definite message to the people of God today; they meet the needs of people in this our day as they did when they were written. The letter to the Colossians was written by Paul, not to his own converts, but to one of his fellow servants, a younger servant. The work there was founded by Epaphras. We know that in the family of God there is equality of relationship, but there is not equality of responsibility. Those who are babes in Christ have not the same responsibility as those who are older. This is the same with the servants of God; this lesson is taught very clearly in the letter to the Colossians. Here is a younger servant of God who had to deal with things that were beyond him. He made a visit to Rome to see Paul about certain matters and then this wonderful letter was written. This is the responsibility of every older servant of God the world over, to strengthen the hand of the younger fellow servants. The key to this letter is in the 3rd chapter, verse 11. Christ is all. The theme of this letter is the all sufficiency of Christ. Christ is all the servant of God needs, Christ is all the child of God needs, Christ is all the man or woman that is not a child of God needs. Away up on the mountain slope of Galilee after His resurrection Jesus said to the disciples, All power is given unto me; Lo I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. I have proved the truth of those words, lo I am with you always. Christ is all that a servant of God needs, Christ is all that a child of God needs in his home life and business life. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. He is the answer to every problem, the solution to every question. As you read over the four chapters of this letter, remember it was written to the same kind of men and women that lived in the same world and are up against the same problems we are. Read this letter as a message to your own heart. Why did Paul put such tremendous emphasis on these things? Men crept in amongst those people who were bringing in their own thoughts. Paul warned against men who would beguile them. These Christians in Colosse were in great danger of being led astray by men who were bringing in their own philosophy. This letter was written to supply help to this younger servant of God. Read Colossians 1:15-18. J esus is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: for by Him were all things created, etc. He is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things He might have the preeminence. The birth of Christ was not an ordinary birth; the life of Christ was not an ordinary life; the death of Christ on Calvary was not an ordinary death; it was an extra-ordinary death; the resurrection of Christ was not an ordinary resurrection, it was an historic fact. The question often arises in our hearts, What is God like? All down through the ages men have speculated as to what God is like. Men have manufactured idols, etc. to express their understanding of what God is like. Remember when Paul was in the city of Athens, he made this statement, For as much then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the God-head is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device, Acts 17:29. Years ago when we were having a convention in the city of Athens, some of us went to Mars Hill. There was a museum there and hundreds of images of God, the attempts of men to convey to others what they thought God was. I would like to answer this question simply and I hope scripturally that God is like Christ. Jesus was the visible representation of the invisible God. We think too often of Him as man. I want to speak to you about Him as Christ. He clothed Himself with a human form and manifested to the world God. To me, Christ was the human form of God in this present evil world. In order to help you understand this, I would like you to read John 1:1. The thoughts of God and the mind of God is expressed in this one verse. In the beginning was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Was with God and was God. Verse 14 The Word (Christ) was made flesh and dwelt among us. Verse 18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him. John 14:8-9 Philip saith unto Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father, and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? I believe He was hurt. Oh, how much those first disciples needed to have their faith increased. Hebrews 1:1-3. God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high. All that Christ was, God is. During those years on earth He manifested the character and nature and love of God. He gave to men and women a look into the Father's heart. This helps me to understand the awful cost of Calvary. He came unto His own. Did you ever try to determine the awful sin of those men? Christ was the Word (or God) made flesh. In Caesarea Philippi (Mark 8:27-29) Jesus asked His disciples, Whom do men say that I am? He didn't say, What are the chief priests and Scribes and Pharisees saying? He knew too well they said He was Beelzebub, a Samaritan, had a devil, said He was a glutton and wine bibler. A glutton was one of the worst sins. They also said he was a friend of publicans and sinners. Who were the men who were saying these reports? They were the men that the people had been taught to look up to for religious guidance. Here was the Messiah, right in their midst, but these were the things they were saying about Him. He asked the question, Whom do the common, ordinary people say that I am? What was true then is true today. Jesus said, I thank Thee Oh Father, that Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them unto babes. His disciples said, Some say, Elias, and others, One of the prophets. He was like the prophets of old; they could see some little likeness to the men of old. Then He said to His disciples, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answered, Thou art the Christ. What place are you giving to Him in your heart-life, home-life and business-life? Is He just merely One that lived in the long ago. Some say He was a man of God. He was not a man of God, but He was the God-man. That in all things Christ might have the preeminence. Our destiny depends not on how much we know of Him, not in our knowledge of the truth that He taught, but the place we allow Him in our hearts. In all things, Christ.I do not read in the above that Jack Carroll believed "Jesus is God" nor that he believed in the trinity. Hard to know what he taught in the public and fellowship meetings and privately. By the way, as far as I know, Jack Carroll was not a 2x2 worker. He was worker among the friends and workers. The 2x2's seem to have sprung up just lately and perhaps via the internet. NathanB, Bert, and I think a TMB user named Tom and perhaps ettu are the only 2x2's of which I am familiar.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2015 12:23:47 GMT -5
There is no recollection in my mind of having ever, myself, referred to the group or any of the workers as 2x2 or two by twos. I do think of them as the 2&2 ministry group, or two and two preachers, of which JC (who stayed in our home often when I was a child) was certainly the foremost among them in my world. When in that "work" I was taught we were 2 and 2 go preachers and thought of myself and all others in it as being such.
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Post by Jason Storebo on Apr 11, 2015 13:19:11 GMT -5
Believe it or not, there are entities that are sexually abusive...those being known as the succubi and the incubi who visit sleeping men and women and engage in sexual relations with them. Also, it is not unknown for discarnate humans to attempt sexual activity with the living.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2015 13:59:23 GMT -5
There is no recollection in my mind of having ever, myself, referred to the group or any of the workers as 2x2 or two by twos. I do think of them as the 2&2 ministry group, or two and two preachers, of which JC (who stayed in our home often when I was a child) was certainly the foremost among them in my world. When in that "work" I was taught we were 2 and 2 go preachers and thought of myself and all others in it as being such. As a lad growing up I don't recall the workers ever referring to themselves as anything other than God's servant workers. Both workers and friends referred to the fellowship as "meetings." One is in the meeting ( a member) or one is not in the meeting. Going to meetings on Sundays and Wednesday nights, gospel meetings, mid year meetings and conventions. As I recall, It is the outsiders who gave us names like: The long Sleeves religion, the twos and The tent gatherings because Gospel meetings, convention meetings, and mid year meetings were held in large tents? I was not in the era when they were called the Black stockings, so I had never heard that term used. I only became familiar with the terms F&W's and the 2x2 when I first joined this forum around 2003. My early memory recall is that the members were referred to as "the saints" rather than " the friends." ps. The term "mid year meetings" has since been replaced by the term "special meetings."
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Post by bubbles on Apr 11, 2015 18:12:03 GMT -5
Believe it or not, there are entities that are sexually abusive...those being known as the succubi and the incubi who visit sleeping men and women and engage in sexual relations with them. Also, it is not unknown for discarnate humans to attempt sexual activity with the living. Yes. Someone I know had this happen. He had a dramatic powerful deliverance. It was our first time praying for someone for deliverance.
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Post by Greg on Apr 11, 2015 19:56:59 GMT -5
Is there such a thing as "parafaith"? Is this thread a "parathread" in relation to the F&W? Greg what is parafaith? Dont you find it telling that christians (people claiming to be believers in christ )only believe parts of scripture that fit their mindest/comfort zone/understanding? I am thinking parafaith would be beyond faith, perhaps a blind faith.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 11, 2015 20:13:58 GMT -5
Greg what is parafaith? Dont you find it telling that christians (people claiming to be believers in christ )only believe parts of scripture that fit their mindest/comfort zone/understanding? I am thinking parafaith would be beyond faith, perhaps a blind faith. All I found was a 1997 movie the ' parafaith war.'
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 11, 2015 23:42:21 GMT -5
I do not read in the above that Jack Carroll believed "Jesus is God" nor that he believed in the trinity. Hard to know what he taught in the public and fellowship meetings and privately. By the way, as far as I know, Jack Carroll was not a 2x2 worker. He was worker among the friends and workers. The 2x2's seem to have sprung up just lately and perhaps via the internet. NathanB, Bert, and I think a TMB user named Tom and perhaps ettu are the only 2x2's of which I am familiar. Greg, I'm not sure that I understand what you are saying about "Jack Carroll was not a 2x2 worker."
Nor that "The 2x2's seem to have sprung up just lately."
Jack carroll was a worker who went out as worker with a companion worker like the others did at the beginning. Same as George Walker the others who went to other countries when they left Ireland.
Isn't the term 2x2's only been used as a term lately here on this board for what we always called THE TRUTH or THE WAY? (also now called the F&W's)
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Post by Greg on Apr 12, 2015 3:58:37 GMT -5
I do not read in the above that Jack Carroll believed "Jesus is God" nor that he believed in the trinity. Hard to know what he taught in the public and fellowship meetings and privately. By the way, as far as I know, Jack Carroll was not a 2x2 worker. He was worker among the friends and workers. The 2x2's seem to have sprung up just lately and perhaps via the internet. NathanB, Bert, and I think a TMB user named Tom and perhaps ettu are the only 2x2's of which I am familiar. Greg, I'm not sure that I understand what you are saying about "Jack Carroll was not a 2x2 worker."
Nor that "The 2x2's seem to have sprung up just lately."
Jack carroll was a worker who went out as worker with a companion worker like the others did at the beginning. Same as George Walker the others who went to other countries when they left Ireland.
Isn't the term 2x2's only been used as a term lately here on this board for what we always called THE TRUTH or THE WAY? (also now called the F&W's)
The friends and workers self-identify as the friends and workers. That is who they are, the friends and workers. NathanB has taken the name 2x2 for his own identifier (as has bert and perhaps a couple others) and has wrongly identified the friends and workers - past and present - as 2x2s.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2015 6:25:16 GMT -5
Greg, so you totally disregard what I expressed, regarding being "2 and 2 go preachers?" No, of course it wasn't a name taken, however it was recognized as our identification.
But then, I was only raised in the group attending meeting after meeting while still in the womb, and deeply involved with it as totally indoctrinated for forty-five years, so perhaps that doesn't compare one bit with your own revelation of the 2 and 2 worker fellowship, even though it was built by them, organized by them and continues to this very day. Que sera, sera.
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Post by rational on Apr 12, 2015 13:06:29 GMT -5
The Sea was actually a lake Nathan. We call it the Sea of Galilee but many know it as Lake Tiberius - in fact most in those parts of the world. If you stand on the spot - Umm Qais, Gadara, in Jordan, where the swine were supposed to have run from into the sea/lake it is a long way from any water. I wonder how swine could run that far. It is not like it was just a matter of running down a hill into the water. The water is like several hours walk from where they claim the site is today. I believe the story of the swine in the Bible but I do not believe the site where the swine were cast out is where they say it is today. It just brought back memories of the 2 times I have stood there. P.S. I just looked it up and there is doubt that todays site could have been the site due to the same reasons as I just said. Nathan your beliefs are a mixture of a whole lot of religions and churches. Could pigs fly in biblical times?
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