|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 8, 2015 17:43:00 GMT -5
Actually, policemen are not trained to "shoot to stop". They are trained to shoot to the largest body mass, which normally means the torso. His problem was that he had no reason whatsoever to even pull out his gun. So they are trained to shoot to kill whatever the circumstances? Well if that is so then people should not run away from them and not expect to get a bullet in the back, unfortunately. How else would the police be able to successfully stop a suspect? I have sympathies both sides since my son is a police officer. I guess a warning shout: stop or I will shoot should stop an runner in his tract if he has nothing to hide. But they're not trained to kill for running away. They're trained to "shoot" when their life or someone else's life is in danger -- ONLY. Not for a broken headlight. If a policeman is too lazy to pursue a non-violent or threatening individual, he can let him go. And black people know -- perfectly well -- that there is no guarantee at all that NOT running is the safer option. Listen to the ranting of the police officer who had his victim trapped in the car. For what it's worth, black people running from the cops is NOT normally what they do when a cop stops them. Normally they RUN when they see a police officer in the vicinity because the most dangerous thing in their neighborhoods is a racist white cop with a gun -- they've been known to kill people over a broken headlight -- and the last thing they want to have to deal with is something like that.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 8, 2015 17:47:49 GMT -5
I'm absolutely not saying that people of color are inherently more liable to criminality because of race. Just that as it stands right now, young black men are more likely to commit crimes than young white men. That's not true -- it's the stereotype. Young black men are more likely to be "convicted" of crimes than young white men. That is a well recognized fact.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 17:47:53 GMT -5
So they are trained to shoot to kill whatever the circumstances? Well if that is so then people should not run away from them and not expect to get a bullet in the back, unfortunately. How else would the police be able to successfully stop a suspect? I have sympathies both sides since my son is a police officer. I guess a warning shout: stop or I will shoot should stop an runner in his tract if he has nothing to hide. But they're not trained to kill for running away. They're trained to "shoot" when their life or someone else's life is in danger -- ONLY. Not for a broken headlight. If a policeman is too lazy to pursue a non-violent or threatening individual, he can let him go. And black people know -- perfectly well -- that there is no guarantee at all that NOT running is the safer option. Listen to the ranting of the police officer who had his victim trapped in the car. For what it's worth, black people running from the cops is NOT normally what they do when a cop stops them. Normally they RUN when they see a police officer in the vicinity because the most dangerous thing in their neighborhoods is a racist white cop with a gun -- they've been known to kill people over a broken headlight -- and the last thing they want to have to deal with is something like that. Good point, I concede.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Apr 8, 2015 17:49:25 GMT -5
It's fairly rare here too, but just lately we've had a couple. The last one was a flea market vendor and he is in an induced coma at the moment and not really expected to live. Seems as though they are starting to take a page out of the cops books in the States lately. Not a good direction to go. I am glad there have been protests done here in regards to the shootings. We just got a new Police Chief so it makes you wonder if he has a different mindset than our old one. The last one was quite good and everyone seemed to like him.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 17:59:09 GMT -5
Can someone please explain the relevance of a thread/discussion on a shooting by a policeman to this forum/TMB? If it was on the secular board of the forum I'd have a clue, but it isn't even there! It's quite simple. The F&W are no less racist than anyone else in the country, and some of them are rabidly racist. They have a history of being not only non-supportive of civil rights, but adamantly against them. And in the last decade have maintained a separate convention for black people, long after the desegregation bill of the 1960's. I thought that the game of Scrabble would come up sooner or later. As a fan and player of cricket in my youth we were told that some balls you just do not attempt to play at, just pad them out - the in swingers. I don't know how to play scrabble though, so I ain't playing.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Apr 8, 2015 18:13:10 GMT -5
So they are trained to shoot to kill whatever the circumstances? Well if that is so then people should not run away from them and not expect to get a bullet in the back, unfortunately. How else would the police be able to successfully stop a suspect? I have sympathies both sides since my son is a police officer. I guess a warning shout: stop or I will shoot should stop an runner in his tract if he has nothing to hide. But they're not trained to kill for running away. They're trained to "shoot" when their life or someone else's life is in danger -- ONLY. Not for a broken headlight. If a policeman is too lazy to pursue a non-violent or threatening individual, he can let him go. And black people know -- perfectly well -- that there is no guarantee at all that NOT running is the safer option. Listen to the ranting of the police officer who had his victim trapped in the car. For what it's worth, black people running from the cops is NOT normally what they do when a cop stops them. Normally they RUN when they see a police officer in the vicinity because the most dangerous thing in their neighborhoods is a racist white cop with a gun -- they've been known to kill people over a broken headlight -- and the last thing they want to have to deal with is something like that. You're pretty big on stereotyping in this post, if you care to read it with that in mind.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 8, 2015 18:18:13 GMT -5
But they're not trained to kill for running away. They're trained to "shoot" when their life or someone else's life is in danger -- ONLY. Not for a broken headlight. If a policeman is too lazy to pursue a non-violent or threatening individual, he can let him go. And black people know -- perfectly well -- that there is no guarantee at all that NOT running is the safer option. Listen to the ranting of the police officer who had his victim trapped in the car. For what it's worth, black people running from the cops is NOT normally what they do when a cop stops them. Normally they RUN when they see a police officer in the vicinity because the most dangerous thing in their neighborhoods is a racist white cop with a gun -- they've been known to kill people over a broken headlight -- and the last thing they want to have to deal with is something like that. Good point, I concede. I have the advantage of having a wife who worked for the Highway Patrol for 20 years, and a daughter who supervised criminals both in prison and out of prison for her entire working life. What the "fraternity" has successfully hidden from the public for a very long time is that about once a month a police officer gets fired because some judge has reported to the chief of police that the officer is no longer permitted to testify in his court because of something inappropriate he has done. Unfortunately the general "majority" population have no idea how police forces operate -- they only see the exciting chases, etc. that get televised. Unfortunately civil governments have largely abandoned all oversight of police forces to the police forces themselves. Their major interaction with police departments is revenue collection (from fines) and contract agreements for salaries and equipment. Police forces probably get more free military hardware discarded from the military than they get in police hardware from their local governments. What this means is that nothing inappropriate in the police force gets corrected unless it comes to the attention of the justice system and the police force has to accept the consequences. The city, which pays the bills, doesn't involve itself in any evaluation of the police system. In this town, the police department has stopped coming to accident sites unless there has been an injury. Not only is it more profitable to hand out citations for traffic violations and drug offenses, the federal government provides lucrative bonuses for drug busts. It saves the city money, and the people taxes. But it means the investigation of greater crimes are of lesser priority and there isn't anyone in the society who has any interest in paying to improve the integrity of the system. Sorry, that's kind of long, but this is a far more complicated matter than simply shooting people over a broken taillight. Until the "majority" stop worshiping the uniform, nothing will change that doesn't get exposed to the justice system.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 8, 2015 18:20:19 GMT -5
It's fairly rare here too, but just lately we've had a couple. The last one was a flea market vendor and he is in an induced coma at the moment and not really expected to live. Seems as though they are starting to take a page out of the cops books in the States lately. Not a good direction to go. I am glad there have been protests done here in regards to the shootings. We just got a new Police Chief so it makes you wonder if he has a different mindset than our old one. The last one was quite good and everyone seemed to like him. We have shooting by police officers at the very minimum of once a month -- or maybe I'm only paying attention to police killings. It is a rare day in this city that a shooting is not reported on the news.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 8, 2015 18:22:14 GMT -5
It's quite simple. The F&W are no less racist than anyone else in the country, and some of them are rabidly racist. They have a history of being not only non-supportive of civil rights, but adamantly against them. And in the last decade have maintained a separate convention for black people, long after the desegregation bill of the 1960's. I thought that the game of Scrabble would come up sooner or later. As a fan and player of cricket in my youth we were told that some balls you just do not attempt to play at, just pad them out - the in swingers. I don't know how to play scrabble though, so I ain't playing. Scrabble was about race and segregation, though, wasn't it?
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Apr 8, 2015 18:26:17 GMT -5
It's fairly rare here too, but just lately we've had a couple. The last one was a flea market vendor and he is in an induced coma at the moment and not really expected to live. Seems as though they are starting to take a page out of the cops books in the States lately. Not a good direction to go. I am glad there have been protests done here in regards to the shootings. We just got a new Police Chief so it makes you wonder if he has a different mindset than our old one. The last one was quite good and everyone seemed to like him. We have shooting by police officers at the very minimum of once a month -- or maybe I'm only paying attention to police killings. It is a rare day in this city that a shooting is not reported on the news. You haven't told us about cops getting beaten and killed in the line of duty. Yes, there are bad cops and cops that are too trigger-happy. There are also scared and anxious cops, and with good reason. I expect you'd rather take notice of liberal media and have little respect for Fox News, but there are two sides to this issue:
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 8, 2015 18:29:50 GMT -5
...and, by the way, race and racism are topics relevant to the F&W. a) Ignoring?? Your tap is leaking, so you ignore the leak rather than replacing the washer? What does that mean? I just don't get it. I think if Sunday morning testimonies advocate taking sides in such a matter, it's relevant to the F&W. I've had workers sit in my living room and denigrate minorities, condemn interracial marriage, recommend shooting people, in some kind of "helpful home visit" -- and I didn't kick them. I should have, but they don't have anything to do with me any more.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 8, 2015 18:31:44 GMT -5
But they're not trained to kill for running away. They're trained to "shoot" when their life or someone else's life is in danger -- ONLY. Not for a broken headlight. If a policeman is too lazy to pursue a non-violent or threatening individual, he can let him go. And black people know -- perfectly well -- that there is no guarantee at all that NOT running is the safer option. Listen to the ranting of the police officer who had his victim trapped in the car. For what it's worth, black people running from the cops is NOT normally what they do when a cop stops them. Normally they RUN when they see a police officer in the vicinity because the most dangerous thing in their neighborhoods is a racist white cop with a gun -- they've been known to kill people over a broken headlight -- and the last thing they want to have to deal with is something like that. You're pretty big on stereotyping in this post, if you care to read it with that in mind. You're right. I know exactly what it is and how it works. You like stereotypical skewed data -- I'll identify it for you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 18:39:34 GMT -5
I have the advantage of having a wife who worked for the Highway Patrol for 20 years, and a daughter who supervised criminals both in prison and out of prison for her entire working life. What the "fraternity" has successfully hidden from the public for a very long time is that about once a month a police officer gets fired because some judge has reported to the chief of police that the officer is no longer permitted to testify in his court because of something inappropriate he has done. Unfortunately the general "majority" population have no idea how police forces operate -- they only see the exciting chases, etc. that get televised. Unfortunately civil governments have largely abandoned all oversight of police forces to the police forces themselves. Their major interaction with police departments is revenue collection (from fines) and contract agreements for salaries and equipment. Police forces probably get more free military hardware discarded from the military than they get in police hardware from their local governments. What this means is that nothing inappropriate in the police force gets corrected unless it comes to the attention of the justice system and the police force has to accept the consequences. The city, which pays the bills, doesn't involve itself in any evaluation of the police system. In this town, the police department has stopped coming to accident sites unless there has been an injury. Not only is it more profitable to hand out citations for traffic violations and drug offenses, the federal government provides lucrative bonuses for drug busts. It saves the city money, and the people taxes. But it means the investigation of greater crimes are of lesser priority and there isn't anyone in the society who has any interest in paying to improve the integrity of the system. Sorry, that's kind of long, but this is a far more complicated matter than simply shooting people over a broken taillight. Until the "majority" stop worshiping the uniform, nothing will change that doesn't get exposed to the justice system. Very enlightening I must say. I hear a lot of accusations about Police states there these days, especially on YouTube.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 8, 2015 18:40:56 GMT -5
We have shooting by police officers at the very minimum of once a month -- or maybe I'm only paying attention to police killings. It is a rare day in this city that a shooting is not reported on the news. You haven't told us about cops getting beaten and killed in the line of duty. They don't get beat up here. They shoot people first. That's exactly what this topic is about -- not the good cops. Then they should join the army where they're supposed to be shooting people. Is there any liberal media around here?
|
|
|
Post by Gene on Apr 8, 2015 18:48:52 GMT -5
Can someone please explain the relevance of a thread/discussion on a shooting by a policeman to this forum/TMB? If it was on the secular board of the forum I'd have a clue, but it isn't even there! Any thread that can garner four posts in three hours from one worker has earned a place of relevancy on TMB.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 8, 2015 18:56:59 GMT -5
Bob Are Americans speaking about this event & taking sides in Sun am mtg? This present racial issue -- I don't know because I haven't been in a meeting for several years. But I have indeed heard blacks denigrated -- in convention, actually, on two occasions. I can't number the times I've heard reference to condemnation of public protests over anything. I've heard the death penalty recommended (more than once, but once from the platform at convention), I've heard workers refer to any number of names in the news as Communists -- primarily in reference to race-involved situations. I know of one worker who told black people to stop complaining because it was white people who brought them the gospel. I also read a newspaper report where a worker stated that they do not concern themselves with civil rights matters -- (except in private). If you knew my history with the workers you know that that last thing I would ever do is lie about anything I saw or heard. You'll have to ask ex members if they do such a thing, maybe to distract people from something. Because people like you have hotter strings to pull.
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Apr 8, 2015 19:13:21 GMT -5
...and, by the way, race and racism are topics relevant to the F&W. a) Ignoring?? Your tap is leaking, so you ignore the leak rather than replacing the washer? ???! I do not understand how your comment relates to the conversation. I am enjoying open discussion of all kinds of topics here on TMB with people who grew up in a similar setting to me....one in which such discussions (in my experience) were not supported. This is exactly where I want to be. It is healing in some way for me. You seem to want to declare what is relevant and what is not. If the existence of this thread is "robbing you of your peace", take it up with Bob, the originator of the thread, or take it up with the local Admin. It is possible that the Admin will agree with you and move the thread. I really don't care where it exists on TMB. I grew up listening to workers and friends talking about how this was "God's only True Way" and that anyone who didn't go to meetings and profess was headed to a lost eternity. I also grew up looking around various meetings....Sunday morning, Gospel, Convention....and seeing, almost without exception, a sea of white faces. I look back now and recognize this as delivering a silent but powerful and profoundly racist message. No. First, I don't answer to you, and second, I really don't care where the thread appears on TMB, I select "Recent Activity" and read whatever comes up. Take it up with the Admin if it is such a big deal to you. Or learn how to ignore the threads that don't interest you! Your words, not mine. I don't have any expectation (and it certainly has not been my experience) that the workers....or anyone else who might believe they are being "led by God" - will have any moral advantage or special insight over the rest of us.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 19:26:25 GMT -5
I'm absolutely not saying that people of color are inherently more liable to criminality because of race. Just that as it stands right now, young black men are more likely to commit crimes than young white men. In light of the study presented by matisse?
|
|
|
Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 19:29:18 GMT -5
I guess a warning shout: stop or I will shoot should stop an runner in his tract if he has nothing to hide. A lot of poor criminals are renters and don't have a tract of their own to stop in.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Apr 8, 2015 19:34:34 GMT -5
Bob Are Americans speaking about this event & taking sides in Sun am mtg? Or is it that ex members start threads about matters that are of little or no relevance to the forum? I notice the 'crack' on workers that you managed to include in your last post. Why don't you join a vegetarian diet or chev hot rod forum and post about it there? It would be of equal relevance to hot rodders and vegetarians as to friends and workers. review005, Are you saying that matters such as justice should not be of any relevance to the a forum of people who are in the "TRUTH, 2x2's, R&W's, WAY?
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Apr 8, 2015 19:35:02 GMT -5
I'm absolutely not saying that people of color are inherently more liable to criminality because of race. Just that as it stands right now, young black men are more likely to commit crimes than young white men. In light of the study presented by matisse? Of course there are factors that affect crime rates, and there are issues that need to be addressed. I wish that no people of color were involved in crime.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 19:39:59 GMT -5
Yes, there are bad cops and cops that are too trigger-happy. There are also scared and anxious cops, and with good reason. I am sure Bob is aware of this. I am sure he read the news regarding the initial encounter Jerad and Amanda Miller has with the two policemen.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 19:41:20 GMT -5
In light of the study presented by matisse? Of course there are factors that affect crime rates, and there are issues that need to be addressed. I wish that no people of color were involved in crime. Everyone has some color. The point is maybe it is less the color of the person and more their economic situation.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Apr 8, 2015 20:06:59 GMT -5
White South Carolina policeman shoots and kills unarmed black man. Cause for stop -- defective tail light. Policeman discovers he is wanted on failure to pay child support, so the man tries to run away. Officer shot him several times in back while running away and man died on site. Officer claimed the man tried to grab his taser, but ironically the man was running away towing the taser behind him on its cord. You will probably see it -- the full tape was shown on our news today. For once the police are not defending the officer. The policeman had stated that the black man had "grabbed' the policeman's taser and ran.
The video from the cell phone actually shows the policeman shot the man eight times in the back as he ran. He then went over to him and handcuffed the dying man .
The policeman then went back to where he had previously stood, -leaned down, picked up the tazer, returned to the black man's body and dropped it beside his body.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 8, 2015 20:21:27 GMT -5
Yes, there are bad cops and cops that are too trigger-happy. There are also scared and anxious cops, and with good reason. I am sure Bob is aware of this. I am sure he read the news regarding the initial encounter Jerad and Amanda Miller has with the two policemen. And that has what to do with the SC case? Except that it was a white racist shooting.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 8, 2015 20:25:56 GMT -5
In light of the study presented by matisse? Of course there are factors that affect crime rates, and there are issues that need to be addressed. I wish that no people of color were involved in crime. I know. Some people think it makes the whole white race look bad. The consolation is that the majority of black people don't believe that.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Apr 8, 2015 20:43:08 GMT -5
Of course there are factors that affect crime rates, and there are issues that need to be addressed. I wish that no people of color were involved in crime. I know. Some people think it makes the whole white race look bad. The consolation is that the majority of black people don't believe that. I wish you'd stop referring to people of color as "black" and pale face people as "white". It's divisive.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Apr 8, 2015 20:49:16 GMT -5
Yes, there are bad cops and cops that are too trigger-happy. There are also scared and anxious cops, and with good reason. I am sure Bob is aware of this. I am sure he read the news regarding the initial encounter Jerad and Amanda Miller has with the two policemen. Bob will also be aware that 50 police officers were killed in the line of duty last year.
|
|