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Post by fixit on Apr 8, 2015 1:04:04 GMT -5
You are. Take a look at the first sentence of this thread. Did I say he was shot because he was black? If you're not racist, then why does it matter if he was white or black? Blacks are not the only one who have these things happen to them, you know. So you'll stop using "black" or "white" in this discussion? Fine by me. I believe I would treat black and white equally. At least I would try to, but if a black male was twice as likely to assault me I would be more wary. Is that racist?
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 8, 2015 2:55:12 GMT -5
Did I say he was shot because he was black? If you're not racist, then why does it matter if he was white or black? Blacks are not the only one who have these things happen to them, you know. So you'll stop using "black" or "white" in this discussion? Fine by me. I believe I would treat black and white equally. At least I would try to, but if a black male was twice as likely to assault me I would be more wary. Is that racist? I believe you believe that. I trust you would try that. But you don't understand how a non-racist person can still practice racism. How do I know that? -- I read it in your "but" comment. Yes, that is racist by definition.
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Post by fixit on Apr 8, 2015 4:39:20 GMT -5
So you'll stop using "black" or "white" in this discussion? Fine by me. I believe I would treat black and white equally. At least I would try to, but if a black male was twice as likely to assault me I would be more wary. Is that racist? I believe you believe that. I trust you would try that. But you don't understand how a non-racist person can still practice racism. How do I know that? -- I read it in your "but" comment. Yes, that is racist by definition. If a pit-bull was twice as likely to attack me than a Labrador, would I be wrong to be more wary of the pit-bull?
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 8, 2015 5:13:32 GMT -5
I believe you believe that. I trust you would try that. But you don't understand how a non-racist person can still practice racism. How do I know that? -- I read it in your "but" comment. Yes, that is racist by definition. If a pit-bull was twice as likely to attack me than a Labrador, would I be wrong to be more wary of the pit-bull? No comparison, fixit.
Bob's right. That was a racist comment.
Just go out and ask any black man.
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Post by matisse on Apr 8, 2015 7:16:22 GMT -5
Did I say he was shot because he was black? If you're not racist, then why does it matter if he was white or black? Blacks are not the only one who have these things happen to them, you know. So you'll stop using "black" or "white" in this discussion? Fine by me. I believe I would treat black and white equally. At least I would try to, but if a black male was twice as likely to assault me I would be more wary. Is that racist? Before the video of the shooting surfaced, the cop in SC claimed that the man he shot had attacked him. The video shows that no such attack happened. How many other false claims skew the "statistics"?
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 9:18:26 GMT -5
So you'll stop using "black" or "white" in this discussion? Fine by me. I believe I would treat black and white equally. At least I would try to, but if a black male was twice as likely to assault me I would be more wary. Is that racist? Before the video of the shooting surfaced, the cop in SC claimed that the man he shot had attacked him. The video shows that no such attack happened. How many other false claims skew the "statistics"? The only video I have seen shows only seconds of what happened prior to the running. Not sure it makes a difference - shooting someone who is not threatening you or anyone else seems to be bad form.
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Post by matisse on Apr 8, 2015 9:31:35 GMT -5
Before the video of the shooting surfaced, the cop in SC claimed that the man he shot had attacked him. The video shows that no such attack happened. How many other false claims skew the "statistics"? The only video I have seen shows only seconds of what happened prior to the running. Not sure it makes a difference - shooting someone who is not threatening you or anyone else seems to be bad form. The footage shows the cop shooting Walter Scott in the back from a distance as Scott tries to flee on foot. Hard to understand how the cop "feared for his life" while he fired those eight shots.
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 9:57:34 GMT -5
The only video I have seen shows only seconds of what happened prior to the running. Not sure it makes a difference - shooting someone who is not threatening you or anyone else seems to be bad form. The footage shows the cop shooting Walter Scott in the back from a distance as Scott tries to flee on foot. Hard to understand how the cop "feared for his life" while he fired those eight shots. I am not disputing that it is difficult to see how this was a life threatening situation but I am in favor of not convicting a person without knowing as much about the situation as possible. In this case there seemingly is not a lot more to know. But is it possible that Scott said he was going to go and kill the woman who had reported him for not making child support payments? Probably not the case but why rush to judgement? The video is out there, the suspect is in custody, and there will be a trial. And then, after the jury members(if there is one)who have heard the evidence and reached a conclusion, people, who probably have not heard all the evidence or the judge's instructions to the jury, can second guess the jury and protest the trial.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 10:28:34 GMT -5
If a pit-bull was twice as likely to attack me than a Labrador, would I be wrong to be more wary of the pit-bull? No comparison, fixit.
Bob's right. That was a racist comment.
Just go out and ask any black man. Yep true, nothing annoys decent black people more than stereotyping them; some innocent decent black folks are treated like dirt, that is a fact. I have personally seen it and it made my blood boil every time. ps. Blacks are likened to pit bulls, and that makes my blood boil as well. A shameful comment fixit.
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Post by matisse on Apr 8, 2015 10:50:48 GMT -5
The footage shows the cop shooting Walter Scott in the back from a distance as Scott tries to flee on foot. Hard to understand how the cop "feared for his life" while he fired those eight shots. I am not disputing that it is difficult to see how this was a life threatening situation but I am in favor of not convicting a person without knowing as much about the situation as possible. In this case there seemingly is not a lot more to know. But is it possible that Scott said he was going to go and kill the woman who had reported him for not making child support payments? Probably not the case but why rush to judgement? The video is out there, the suspect is in custody, and there will be a trial. And then, after the jury members(if there is one)who have heard the evidence and reached a conclusion, people, who probably have not heard all the evidence or the judge's instructions to the jury, can second guess the jury and protest the trial. I am not in a position to convict the cop. The video seems damning to me when compared to the story the cop told before the video surfaced. I do wonder what the news report would have been in the absence of video footage. You seem more optimistic about the integrity of law enforcement and the US justice system (including juries and the judge's who instruct them) wrt people of color than I am. This is also a thread in which a poster essentially compared black men to pit bulls. (The malignment of both, imo,as i think of friends and acquaintences who are black men as well as friends who are pit bulls.)
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 11:03:15 GMT -5
ps. Blacks are likened to pit bulls, and that makes my blood >:( boil as well. A shameful comment fixit. There was no comparison made. It was an analogy to show how one might react to individuals of a group if that group by and large displays certain characteristics.
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 11:11:39 GMT -5
I am not in a position to convict the cop. The video seems damning to me when compared to the story the cop told before the video surfaced. I do wonder what the news report would have been in the absence of video footage. You seem more optimistic about the integrity of law enforcement and the US justice system (including juries and the judge's who instruct them) wrt people of color than I am. Perhaps I am less likely to pass judgement on people until the facts have been determined. I did not see any comparison. Can you point that out for me please? I am sure we both have acquaintances who would fit into a number of categories. I am not sure I would classify any of my friends as pit bulls, or any other animal, but I can imagine where you are coming from.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 11:18:31 GMT -5
ps. Blacks are likened to pit bulls, and that makes my blood boil as well. A shameful comment fixit. There was no comparison made. It was an analogy to show how one might react to individuals of a group if that group by and large displays certain characteristics. You can say what you like, but don't tell that to a black person; go look around jails all over the world and observe the numbers of whites, blacks, persons of mixed race all incarcerated.Some/ all?? have done terrible things,so they must be all pitbulls then, not just the non whites. A very insensitive and unfortunate analogy considering the subject matter being discussed. That was a well aimed shot, buddy. ps. In this case the analogy is used by steriortyping blacks as pit bulls, and non blacks as the other Dog, Labrador mentioned.
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Post by matisse on Apr 8, 2015 11:55:13 GMT -5
ps. Blacks are likened to pit bulls, and that makes my blood >:( boil as well. A shameful comment fixit. There was no comparison made. It was an analogy to show how one might react to individuals of a group if that group by and large displays certain characteristics. ...or how one might react to individuals of a group if one believes (or wants to believe) that group "by and large displays certain characteristics." There are deeply held stereotypes in play here.
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 12:03:53 GMT -5
...or how one might react to individuals of a group if one believes (or wants to believe) that group "by and large displays certain characteristics." There are deeply held stereotypes in play here. Sounds like you strongly believe your rhetoric.
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Post by matisse on Apr 8, 2015 12:06:51 GMT -5
I am not in a position to convict the cop. The video seems damning to me when compared to the story the cop told before the video surfaced. I do wonder what the news report would have been in the absence of video footage. You seem more optimistic about the integrity of law enforcement and the US justice system (including juries and the judge's who instruct them) wrt people of color than I am. Perhaps I am less likely to pass judgement on people until the facts have been determined. I don't assume that what happens in police departments and in local court systems is necessarily about determining the facts and passing fair judgement. Alabama man released after 30 years on death row (NPR) (an example from last week...there are many others) It was by analogy, as you pointed out yourself. I expect that other animal lovers on TMB will understand what I am saying.
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 12:12:17 GMT -5
You can say what you like, but don't tell that to a black person; go look around jails all over the world and observe the numbers of whites, blacks, persons of mixed race all incarcerated.Some/ all?? have done terrible things,so they must be all pitbulls then, not just the non whites. A very insensitive and unfortunate analogy considering the subject matter being discussed. That was a well aimed shot, buddy. ps. In this case the analogy is used by steriortyping blacks as pit bulls, and non blacks as the other Dog, Labrador mentioned. The post under consideration was: If a pit-bull was twice as likely to attack me than a Labrador, would I be wrong to be more wary of the pit-bull? There was no comparison other than, perhaps, the one in your mind. If white pine trees are more likely to drop branches in a snow storm than white oak would I be wrong if I was more wary of walking in a white pine forest? The point was, correct me if I am wrong fixit, is that one takes into account the learned behavior members of any group when dealing with the individuals who belong to that group. Pit-bulls, in the post in question, were never compared to anything.
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 12:17:45 GMT -5
I don't think I ever said, or even implied, that the facts were going to be provided by the police or local court systems. And did the analogy point out whether the pit-bulls or the retrievers represented any particular group? Great expectations!
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Post by snow on Apr 8, 2015 12:18:31 GMT -5
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Post by matisse on Apr 8, 2015 12:21:55 GMT -5
...or how one might react to individuals of a group if one believes (or wants to believe) that group "by and large displays certain characteristics." There are deeply held stereotypes in play here. Sounds like you strongly believe your rhetoric. Sounds like you may be dismissive of my point of view! I have a number of friends raising black sons and daughters, navigating a biased school system and trying to prepare the kids to survive even harsher biases - especially the boys, as they turn into "menacing" black men.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 8, 2015 12:49:08 GMT -5
I believe you believe that. I trust you would try that. But you don't understand how a non-racist person can still practice racism. How do I know that? -- I read it in your "but" comment. Yes, that is racist by definition. If a pit-bull was twice as likely to attack me than a Labrador, would I be wrong to be more wary of the pit-bull? Maybe not, but you're discriminating/pre-judging nonetheless -- on the races of dogs instead of humans. Of course, you would be more justified in the case of pit-bull dogs because they have been intentionally bred to be what they are. You don't have the same justification with humans. By the way, turn this picture around. If you are wary of blacks, doesn't that mean you are "less wary" of whites? That's the same discriminatory practice. And the result of it more than likely is that you evaluate people first by their race and then by their individuality, and not the other way around. In that respect you would be a pretty typical American -- according to America's top cop anyway.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 8, 2015 12:51:12 GMT -5
Before the video of the shooting surfaced, the cop in SC claimed that the man he shot had attacked him. The video shows that no such attack happened. How many other false claims skew the "statistics"? The only video I have seen shows only seconds of what happened prior to the running. Not sure it makes a difference - shooting someone who is not threatening you or anyone else seems to be bad form. The police officer claimed the guy had gone for his taser. Turned out it was the cop who used the taser and then dropped it beside the man when he was dead.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 8, 2015 12:56:52 GMT -5
I don't think I ever said, or even implied, that the facts were going to be provided by the police or local court systems. And did the analogy point out whether the pit-bulls or the retrievers represented any particular group? Great expectations! You very obviously have never lived as an ethnic minority.
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 13:10:25 GMT -5
Sounds like you strongly believe your rhetoric. Sounds like you may be dismissive of my point of view! I have a number of friends raising black sons and daughters, navigating a biased school system and trying to prepare the kids to survive even harsher biases - especially the boys, as they turn into "menacing" black men. No, not totally.
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 13:12:52 GMT -5
I don't think I ever said, or even implied, that the facts were going to be provided by the police or local court systems. And did the analogy point out whether the pit-bulls or the retrievers represented any particular group? Great expectations! You very obviously have never lived as an ethnic minority. What did I say in the post that led you to this conclusion. Be specific.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 13:35:33 GMT -5
You can say what you like, but don't tell that to a black person; go look around jails all over the world and observe the numbers of whites, blacks, persons of mixed race all incarcerated.Some/ all?? have done terrible things,so they must be all pitbulls then, not just the non whites. A very insensitive and unfortunate analogy considering the subject matter being discussed. That was a well aimed shot, buddy. ps. In this case the analogy is used by steriortyping blacks as pit bulls, and non blacks as the other Dog, Labrador mentioned. The post under consideration was: If a pit-bull was twice as likely to attack me than a Labrador, would I be wrong to be more wary of the pit-bull? There was no comparison other than, perhaps, the one in your mind. If white pine trees are more likely to drop branches in a snow storm than white oak would I be wrong if I was more wary of walking in a white pine forest? The point was, correct me if I am wrong fixit, is that one takes into account the learned behavior members of any group when dealing with the individuals who belong to that group. Pit-bulls, in the post in question, were never compared to anything. White pine trees my foot, white oaks tree my foot, they are trees they don't have feelings like human, the thing about some folks they don't believe that black folks have feelings and that is why they treated them so in the past and some continue to treat them so in the present. You can come up with all kinds of excuses and explanations, but blacks live with this treatment all the time, you can't fool them any longer. I'll leave it at that;?they are quite a number of examples on YouTube to demonstrate this, why don't you have a look at some of them, I'll specifically mention one: "WHAT WOULD YOU DO."Hosted by John Quinones using hidden cameras. Just watch a few of those episodes and tell me what you think.
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 13:42:07 GMT -5
White pine trees my foot, white oaks tree my foot, they are trees they don't have feelings like human, the thing about some folks they don't believe that black folks have feelings and that is why they treated them so in the past and some continue to treat them so in the present. You can come up with all kinds of excuses and explanations, but blacks live with this treatment all the time, you can't fool them any longer. I'll leave it at that;?they are quite a number of examples on YouTube to demonstrate this, why don't you have a look at some of them, I'll specifically mention one: "WHAT WOULD YOU DO." Dogs do not have feelings like humans either. Don't point to YouTube videos as any sort of proof inless they can also provide source documentation and references. The question was - When and where, specifically, did fixit compare the dogs in his example of his point to any group or people? Having or not having feelings is not the point. Simple to solve this - Just point out the place where fixit compared blacks to retrievers. Or pit-bulls.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 13:47:59 GMT -5
White pine trees my foot, white oaks tree my foot, they are trees they don't have feelings like human, the thing about some folks they don't believe that black folks have feelings and that is why they treated them so in the past and some continue to treat them so in the present. You can come up with all kinds of excuses and explanations, but blacks live with this treatment all the time, you can't fool them any longer. I'll leave it at that;?they are quite a number of examples on YouTube to demonstrate this, why don't you have a look at some of them, I'll specifically mention one: "WHAT WOULD YOU DO." Dogs do not have feelings like humans either. Don't point to YouTube videos as any sort of proof inless they can also provide source documentation and references. The question was - When and where, specifically, did fixit compare the dogs in his example of his point to any group or people? Having or not having feelings is not the point. Simple to solve this - Just point out the place where fixit compared blacks to retrievers. Or pit-bulls. You appear to be a very intelligent man, so I should not have to explain or point out to you that he did it by innuendo.
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