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Post by maryhig on Apr 7, 2015 16:26:54 GMT -5
We have lost. Family and those we thought were friends. I have also lost my trust in any organized religion. I do have a new found sense of peace that God is my judge, not workers or friends for who I always made me feel judged, and found wanting. Marie I wanted to answer you earlier, but my children have been round at different times today. I'm so sad to see what you've been through! And to lose the people close to you, all of this has been on my mind today after listening to you and other people on here. My Grandchildren have all been round and I don't understand how anyone can hurt a child they are so innocent and beautiful! Looking at them I know that if anyone hurts children then they need to be stopped, it shouldn't be covered up. I'm so glad you've found peace. When we believe in God, then there is nothing in this world that can replace his love, or the strength and peace in the heart that he gives us, and his love helps us overcome the pain in our hearts. He's healed my heart also! And he's blessed me with all the people around me to help me get through! I don't believe in organised religion either. I believe our relationship with God is direct to our hearts. And we have to listen to our conscience. You are absolutely right. No one can judge us. God is our judge not one single person knows the depths of our hearts so how can they judge us? They can't! They are sinners too! I think of the Lords prayer and that it's a daily prayer and starts with Our Father. That's because it's only God that we are answerable to and no one else. God's people are here to bring God to us, and if they do this to children, then they are not God's people! And should be reported!
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Post by maryhig on Apr 7, 2015 16:42:53 GMT -5
Hi Isobel, can you tell me something please? what is it with workers etc, are the friends and others in the fellowship not allowed to report sexual abuse of children to the police? I'm sure that can't be so? If they can't tell the police why not? Child Abuse can't be allowed, for any reason. And if a worker is abusing a child he/she isn't of God. They should be dealt with accordingly! I hope you don't mind me asking, I'm just a bit confused as to why you keep asking Bert if he would report it. Any human being in their right mind would report it! The traditional world-wide 2x2 church doctrine is that sins of the workers should be covered up (not exposed) in order to "protect the Truth," or because they believe that they "should not expose sins of one another" (workers protecting each other) and because of belief that these things should be handled within the church - by the ministry of course, not the regular members. There is also the element of seeing the workers as the "anointed ones" and of fear of doing anything against them or against their instruction, or even without their instruction. Therefore, it would be hard for a regular member to report an "anointed" one to police or to go against the instructions of "anointed ones." Another aspect is that the traditional view held by the workers of sexual immorality and abuse, including CSA, is that the problem is with the child or woman, not with the worker committing immorality or abuse. Therefore, the solution is to remove the offending worker away from the problem child/woman - to another part of the country or to another country. Some workers have been removed from the work for CSA, but they were not reported to police. Known CSA offenders are usually allowed to remain in the church without any repercussions (except for maybe losing their place in the ministry). The workers in the US have only recently woken up to the fact that they are mandatory reporters. This legal pressure is slowly changing the doctrine of covering up child abuse. Internet exposure of CSA issues within the church is helping too. Crikey o'reilly! What happened to staying humble! No one should be above anyone else in God! Jesus himself came as a servant. "anointed one's" purposely sinning and abusing children? They are not 'anointed' at all. If they were then they would be fighting sin in their hearts!
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Post by fixit on Apr 7, 2015 18:07:11 GMT -5
The traditional world-wide 2x2 church doctrine is that sins of the workers should be covered up (not exposed) in order to "protect the Truth," or because they believe that they "should not expose sins of one another" (workers protecting each other) and because of belief that these things should be handled within the church - by the ministry of course, not the regular members. There is also the element of seeing the workers as the "anointed ones" and of fear of doing anything against them or against their instruction, or even without their instruction. Therefore, it would be hard for a regular member to report an "anointed" one to police or to go against the instructions of "anointed ones." Another aspect is that the traditional view held by the workers of sexual immorality and abuse, including CSA, is that the problem is with the child or woman, not with the worker committing immorality or abuse. Therefore, the solution is to remove the offending worker away from the problem child/woman - to another part of the country or to another country. Some workers have been removed from the work for CSA, but they were not reported to police. Known CSA offenders are usually allowed to remain in the church without any repercussions (except for maybe losing their place in the ministry). The workers in the US have only recently woken up to the fact that they are mandatory reporters. This legal pressure is slowly changing the doctrine of covering up child abuse. Internet exposure of CSA issues within the church is helping too. Crikey o'reilly! What happened to staying humble! No one should be above anyone else in God! Jesus himself came as a servant. "anointed one's" purposely sinning and abusing children? They are not 'anointed' at all. If they were then they would be fighting sin in their hearts! And they'd be fighting sin in their ranks.
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Post by snow on Apr 7, 2015 18:37:06 GMT -5
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Post by bubbles on Apr 7, 2015 20:56:51 GMT -5
On Studio10 this morning they were discussing kids 4-8 being exposed to pornography. What age should they be told? Apparently it is now stated that pedophiliar is something people are born with. Unanimously the panel agreed that children should be spoken to about pornography pre-teens. Pornography today is wildly different to 40yr ago. It is all over the internet even if parents kiddylock pcs their friends can still show them. Another comment was made. A non CSA abuser has natural instinct to 'protect'a child whereas a pedophile instinct is to 'sexually abuse'.
Often people who are sexually abused go on to become abusers themselves. Eg: Rapists One difference I see with a rapist v pedophile. Rapists dont contact other rapists and form groups to aid each other.
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 7, 2015 21:03:15 GMT -5
Bert you still have not answered the question, if you knew a child was being abused by a worker at convention would you report it to the authorities ? You obviously are not aware of the amount of children that have been abused at convention on pack-up day !! Stop avoiding a straight question Bert, either yes or no will do Is pack-up day that dangerous an environment? Your comment implies that it is somewhat of an epidemic of child molestation. I have never seen this mentioned on these threads. Perhaps you can enlighten readers of this problem. How many of these cases have been reported to the authorities? How many have not been reported? Rational, I was asking Bert a question which he will not answer. As to pack-up day yes that has happened at places like Booyong Convention where the men's side is a long way from the rest of the Convention ground. Yes it was reported to the Head Worker by another worker but was brushed under the mat.
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Post by fixit on Apr 7, 2015 22:30:40 GMT -5
People seem to forget that CSA perpetrators are groomers.
They don't "fall into temptation".
They try to create opportunities to offend.
They patiently groom their victims, sometimes over a long period of time.
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 8, 2015 2:33:49 GMT -5
Nathan did you belong to a Pentecostal Church by any chance ?
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 8:04:31 GMT -5
On Studio10 this morning they were discussing kids 4-8 being exposed to pornography. What age should they be told? Be told about what? Pornography? The research certainly is pointing in this direction. I am wondering what the children should be told about pornography? It is certainly more easily available. I wonder if children who have been told about the functions of the human body in whatever detail they are interested in are turning to look at pornography. This is one of the theories. In the majority of adults an image of a child triggers the nurturing instinct but in some it triggers the sexual instinct. A report in The Lancet ( Volume 361, No. 9356, p471–476, 8 February 2003): Roughly one in 10 male victims of child sex abuse in a U.K. study later went on to abuse children as adults. But the risk was far greater for sexually victimized children who came from severely dysfunctional families. Family history of violence, sexual abuse by a female, maternal neglect, and lack of supervision were all associated with a threefold-increased risk that the abused would become an abuser. And you know of groups that pedophiles have to help each other do what? Gain access to victims or overcome their urges?
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2015 8:18:47 GMT -5
People seem to forget that CSA perpetrators are groomers. They don't "fall into temptation". They try to create opportunities to offend. They patiently groom their victims, sometimes over a long period of time. This is painting with a broad brush. I have never heard, for example, of a flasher grooming their victims. It is misleading to group all types of sexual abuse together. Here are some examples of child sexual abuse: Inappropriate fondling Penetrating a child’s vagina or anus no matter how slight with a penis or any object that doesn’t have a valid medical purpose. Exposing children to pornographic material Masturbating in front of a child Obscene phone calls Exhibitionism involving a minor Oral sex Engaging a child or soliciting a child for the purposes of prostitution Making a child touch an adult’s sexual organs Deliberately exposing a child to the act of sexual intercourse Engaging in indecent exposure or exhibitionism Using a child to film, photograph or model pornography
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 8:24:39 GMT -5
I was ask by my therapist if my abuser could have been abused? I have no idea the answer to that question. To me it is not en excuse for horrid behavior. The first question ask me by my sister-in-law when I told her of my abuse was, was it a brother worker? Is that question not telling? ? This from a woman I consider a huge worker worshipper.
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Post by snow on Apr 8, 2015 11:00:47 GMT -5
You might be on to something there Nathan. Sort of like blaming the problem on demons that can be driven out through prayer and self denial? hahaha many workers don't believe in demons, they think it's our own imagination... The workers and the friends believe in 3 folds enemies: The world, the flesh and the devil.... but they don't fully understand or see the works of the flesh, and Satan in real life.
Many 2x2 workers don't believe in casting out demons because they're NOT real according to them.
Maybe you should listen to the workers in this case and not think that you know better.
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raheli
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Post by raheli on Apr 8, 2015 15:29:31 GMT -5
Here's what I have done: spoken to Barry,cooperated with the DA prosecutor, spoken to some sisters who came, about GS and DB, and why child moles are,allowed t o g o to mtg, and continue being called "saved", while others are the ones who allegedly "lost out" and won't be saved,for the sin of no longer going to mtg, and NOTHING else! I also called them out on their appalling lack of care for my elderly mother, and refused to welcome a sister worker who has said nasty things about me , and then thought to come visit in m y home! Um. NO! So, th a t I s . How I dare do s cuss th his here. Still, I have a question for you, Marie. If your Mom was alive, and living with you, wouldn't you try to be somewhat peaceable with her? Would you let her have myths in your living room, so that she could enjoy the comfort of what she was used to, in her last days? Can you share with us what Barry's and the sister workers' reply I can not, for the sake of a "professing" family member. I am truly sorry.
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raheli
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Post by raheli on Apr 8, 2015 16:15:10 GMT -5
reheli, glad to hear you have spoken to BB and some sister workers about abuse. As far as my mother goes. I do not understand your question. My mother has been gone for years. I am so thankful for that because I would not have wanted her to see the state of the "Truth" as it is today. I am sure she would understand my stand against abuse. If you think other wise, then you did not know my mother. Both your mother and father were among the group of beautiful people that I genuinely LOVED to see at conventions. They were both, of blessed memory, genuinely good hearted people! Truly their memories live as a blessing. They, and your dad's family, whom I count myself blessed tohave known, ARE the ESSENCE of what "The Truth" meant to me... back in the day. I guess that's why the group in its hideous human leadership has gone from pathetic to downright dangerous. The reason I asked abt your mom was that this is the exact predicament I live with. I CANNOT keep my mouth shut, because I refuse to give them that power over me...on the other hand, my mum is elderly and knows nothing else, so I am forced not to make waves enough to cause her panic in her last years. It's a really hard line to walk. You can PM if you're interested to know who I am. We grew up at the same conventions, but I had no friends, so you wouldn't have ever seen me with any group of kids. I always thought you were beautiful with your rosy cheeks, braids and curlyish hair. You were lucky, you had family. Those were brutal times for anyone who was "different" from the general hordes of all the wealthy intermarried exclusive people. We poor Jews in the Winebago had no merit. The man who spoke at my Dad's funeral (he's an alleged minister/worker), made sure to get in some nasty anti-semitic remarks, saying that my Dad knew he had to be a Christian to be saved. (Fingers pointing toward Observant Jewish family members, as he waved his bible at us. Thankfully, my father, obm, did NOT believe such nonsense, understanding fully that anyone and everyone have personal, individual access to The Creator, regardless of her/his language, religion, and culture. Another successful professin' style funeral, where the gospel is shot as though a weapon. The one sw I spoke with said that as Jesus had, so she herself, felt moved to reach out in love to all of human-kind, AS they ARE. I wish her loving acceptance of ALL people were the norm.
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Post by bubbles on Apr 8, 2015 16:25:05 GMT -5
On Studio10 this morning they were discussing kids 4-8 being exposed to pornography. What age should they be told? Be told about what? Pornography? The research certainly is pointing in this direction. I am wondering what the children should be told about pornography? It is certainly more easily available. I wonder if children who have been told about the functions of the human body in whatever detail they are interested in are turning to look at pornography. This is one of the theories. In the majority of adults an image of a child triggers the nurturing instinct but in some it triggers the sexual instinct. A report in The Lancet ( Volume 361, No. 9356, p471–476, 8 February 2003): Roughly one in 10 male victims of child sex abuse in a U.K. study later went on to abuse children as adults. But the risk was far greater for sexually victimized children who came from severely dysfunctional families. Family history of violence, sexual abuse by a female, maternal neglect, and lack of supervision were all associated with a threefold-increased risk that the abused would become an abuser. And you know of groups that pedophiles have to help each other do what? Gain access to victims or overcome their urges? Yes pornography..firstly they talked about parents speaking to children about sex between 4 and 8. The concern they had about pornography was it wasnt about making love. They referred to violent sex, pulling hair, bondage and the fact that its on phones, ipads, pcs. Devices children have acess too. They all thought preteens was the age to inform and warn children about it. Told? That not all adults like it too begin with. That not all women want to be porn stars. That it caters to some peoples needs desires. I would also be telling them Ted Bundys story. I have read that pedophiles are a part of a ring. Or can be. I dont know personally no. Ha..they wouldnt want to know me.
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raheli
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Post by raheli on Apr 8, 2015 17:13:43 GMT -5
The fear of being ostracized and shunned by some others for spilling the beans and thereby gaining enemies for doing so as a "squealer." You seems to forget that we are not all level- headed individuals with strong morals as to what is right and honorable spiritually in the sight of God, and is fair to our brethren, and be willing to stand up and be counted in, come what may. Well they're not following Jesus then! He was cast out by the Jew's for doing what he believed was right and then lost his life! He did what was right and was crucified for it. In his heart God was more important to him than man. He didn't care about being shunned! Um. Excuse me for the minor distraction of semantics, especially antisemitic semantics, but the Pharisees were only one group of the Jew's as you called those who "cast him out to lose his life. Incidentally, it was ALSO the Jews who walked with Y'hshuah, who were his talmadim students/disciples...and the thousands who loved and believed? Also Jews. JMT. I love your attitude of protection above all for the children, may G-D Bless your efforts. Please don't read my words harshly, communicating in this manner is so difficult for me. I know from my past efforts that I offended Marie when that's the last thing I wanted.
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raheli
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Post by raheli on Apr 8, 2015 17:25:44 GMT -5
We have lost. Family and those we thought were friends. I have also lost my trust in any organized religion. I do have a new found sense of peace that God is my judge, not workers or friends for who I always made me feel judged, and found wanting. Marie I wanted to answer you earlier, but my children have been round at different times today. I'm so sad to see what you've been through! And to lose the people close to you, all of this has been on my mind today after listening to you and other people on here. My Grandchildren have all been round and I don't understand how anyone can hurt a child they are so innocent and beautiful! Looking at them I know that if anyone hurts children then they need to be stopped, it shouldn't be covered up. I'm so glad you've found peace. When we believe in God, then there is nothing in this world that can replace his love, or the strength and peace in the heart that he gives us, and his love helps us overcome the pain in our hearts. He's healed my heart also! And he's blessed me with all the people around me to help me get through! I don't believe in organised religion either. I believe our relationship with God is direct to our hearts. And we have to listen to our conscience. You are absolutely right. No one can judge us. God is our judge not one single person knows the depths of our hearts so how can they judge us? They can't! They are sinners too! I think of the Lords prayer and that it's a daily prayer and starts with Our Father. That's because it's only God that we are answerable to and no one else. God's people are here to bring God to us, and if they do this to children, then they are not God's people! And should be reported! I'm sorry for your experiences too, perhaps with some of the same alleged friends and workers I have struggled against. However, I "liked" your post, because all praise to the Deity, you have finally found THE TRUTH, and it's NOT with any religion! It's totally individual, for who on earth or in heaven can come between the soul and its Source? May you continue to know Peace.
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Post by maryhig on Apr 8, 2015 17:53:20 GMT -5
Well they're not following Jesus then! He was cast out by the Jew's for doing what he believed was right and then lost his life! He did what was right and was crucified for it. In his heart God was more important to him than man. He didn't care about being shunned! Um. Excuse me for the minor distraction of semantics, especially antisemitic semantics, but the Pharisees were only one group of the Jew's as you called those who "cast him out to lose his life. Incidentally, it was ALSO the Jews who walked with Y'hshuah, who were his talmadim students/disciples...and the thousands who loved and believed? Also Jews. JMT. I love your attitude of protection above all for the children, may G-D Bless your efforts. Please don't read my words harshly, communicating in this manner is so difficult for me. I know from my past efforts that I offended Marie when that's the last thing I wanted. Hiya! I just want you to know I'm not against Jewish people. And I didn't mean all Jewish people. I meant the Jewish leaders of the time. Like Caiaphas who was a Sadducee and leader of the Sanhedrin! It does say that in the bible that these people plotted to kill Jesus. But you're right. Many Jewish people followed him. And they are Gods people. We are grafted in. But I hope that God sees the Jew in my heart where with his love he has circumcised it!
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raheli
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Post by raheli on Apr 8, 2015 22:05:40 GMT -5
I actually didn't think you were against Jewish people,it's just that F&W use the "common language" of the NT without even giving a thought to the fact that the very people they were preaching about were Jews! And for that matter, he came to all of Israel, not only one tribe (Yehudah)...and the message was not just to one group of people, thanks G-D! There's no difference in any human being before our Creator,B"H Blessed is The Name. Last year in a conv. I heard an older brother put all Jews in hell for "denying then killing the Lord" ugh. May we all have more Love, if not understanding. In short, "You got it. Our "heart", or the essence of our soul, is how we'll be Judged.
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tom
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Post by tom on Apr 10, 2015 2:29:23 GMT -5
Hi Isobel, can you tell me something please? what is it with workers etc, are the friends and others in the fellowship not allowed to report sexual abuse of children to the police? I'm sure that can't be so? If they can't tell the police why not? Child Abuse can't be allowed, for any reason. And if a worker is abusing a child he/she isn't of God. They should be dealt with accordingly! I hope you don't mind me asking, I'm just a bit confused as to why you keep asking Bert if he would report it. Any human being in their right mind would report it! In this world we are living in self preservation weighs heavily. People fear repercussions, that is why many do not get involved when they should; the see and don't see attitude, a dead man/woman tell no tales, sort of thing. Well I dont agree that it would not be reported. In NZ reporting to the correct authorities has been encouraged. I keep on the case.... why is it left to the workers to act!! If people used their initiative and went straight to the police the problem would be sorted. I do not believe they would be shunned by other friends - in fact I think the action would be applauded. Don't expect the workers to take action if you're not prepared to take action yourself!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 6:12:35 GMT -5
In this world we are living in self preservation weighs heavily. People fear repercussions, that is why many do not get involved when they should; the see and don't see attitude, a dead man/woman tell no tales, sort of thing. Well I dont agree that it would not be reported. In NZ reporting to the correct authorities has been encouraged. I keep on the case.... why is it left to the workers to act!! If people used their initiative and went straight to the police the problem would be sorted. I do not believe they would be shunned by other friends - in fact I think the action would be applauded. Don't expect the workers to take action if you're not prepared to take action yourself! I am not saying that these matters should not be reported, or would not be reported, all I am pointing out is some of the reasons why people would shy away from reporting such abuses. Personally, I think that they should be reported and dealt with in a proper way to the satisfaction of all involved especially the victims and their families., not forgetting that abusers would be able to be helped as well, with counseling and any other appropriate treatment, as well as any necessary punishment applicable.
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Post by mdm on Apr 10, 2015 9:43:15 GMT -5
In this world we are living in self preservation weighs heavily. People fear repercussions, that is why many do not get involved when they should; the see and don't see attitude, a dead man/woman tell no tales, sort of thing. Well I dont agree that it would not be reported. In NZ reporting to the correct authorities has been encouraged. I keep on the case.... why is it left to the workers to act!! If people used their initiative and went straight to the police the problem would be sorted. I do not believe they would be shunned by other friends - in fact I think the action would be applauded. Don't expect the workers to take action if you're not prepared to take action yourself! Of course, the workers are not the only ones responsible. Everyone has their own responsibility, and the overseers' responsibility is to actively and openly deprogram the lower-ranking workers and friends from the traditional 2x2 teaching that CSA should be handled only by overseers and covered up. The overseer of NZ did speak about it at a convention, but this has not been done in the rest of the world. I could list recent examples I am aware of that show that the traditional teaching is still held by many F&W's world-wide, but I've already done that many times.
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tom
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Post by tom on Apr 10, 2015 15:23:24 GMT -5
Historically this covering up was not just a church thing,it was rife in schools, clubs, families etc. Generally it was somethig that was ignored because it was just too difficult/ shameful to deal with. Many of the overseers have been brought up with this mindset. With that in mind I get tired of reading over and over again on this forum about the 'worker cover up'. Obviously they are not the only ones that know of the abuse reported to them. The victim knows, often parents, friends, grandparents etc know. They know the victim (or are the victim), know the situation, the details.If they don't report it they are more at fault than the overseers. If the problem is reported correctly and dealt with by an outside authority how can it be covered up. I say stop blaming the workers and instead look at those who lack the courage to act themselves. It is so easy to say...'oh Im scared of the repercussions-let someone else deal with it' People expect the overseers to handle it correctly when they themselves are not even prepared to touch the problem!
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Post by fixit on Apr 10, 2015 15:25:07 GMT -5
In this world we are living in self preservation weighs heavily. People fear repercussions, that is why many do not get involved when they should; the see and don't see attitude, a dead man/woman tell no tales, sort of thing. Well I dont agree that it would not be reported. In NZ reporting to the correct authorities has been encouraged. I keep on the case.... why is it left to the workers to act!! If people used their initiative and went straight to the police the problem would be sorted. I do not believe they would be shunned by other friends - in fact I think the action would be applauded. Don't expect the workers to take action if you're not prepared to take action yourself! Child sexual abuse is very different to other crimes e.g. burglary: 1. Children think differently to adults. Very differently when it comes to CSA. 2. Not every 4 year old, even 11 year old, feels empowered to report the crime as it happens. Perpetrators choose their targets carefully. 3. Most CSA is hidden by the victim until years after the crime was committed, often when the victim is an adult. 4. When the victim starts disclosing the crime they are often not ready to relive the nightmare through the dreaded police interview. 5. Because CSA generally involves a perpetrator trusted by the family, the victim is concerned about repercussions resulting from disclosure. Dealing with CSA splits families, social groups, churches, etc. They are torn between hurting others through disclosing the abuse, and the fear of other victims being hurt if the perpetrator is not made accountable. To get the problem of CSA in the fellowship sorted, the culture needs to change so that: 1. Victims/survivors (professing or not professing) should know that the fellowship will support them through the process of validation/seeking justice/healing/moving on. 2. Potential victims should feel empowered to reject the advances of sexual predators and know that the professing community will support and protect them. 3. Sexual predators should know that the professing community has zero tolerance for sexual abuse. It will not be swept under the carpet as it has in the past. How can this culture change be achieved?
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Post by Mary on Apr 10, 2015 16:15:11 GMT -5
People do what their community does - in this case those in meetings and their leaders being the workers. The workers have tried to keep their group out of the limelight and reporting abuse puts them in the spot light. The workers have had a lot of control over their members and people would not go against what they believe the workers would want for fear of being ostracised. So yes the workers do have to take some of the responsibility for keeping people quiet. People have not reported abuse as they do not want to be seen as rocking the boat. The same in families. The workers are seen as leaders. People do not want to be ostracised from other members so try and keep it hidden. Now people are speaking out but in the past people had different beliefs and things that took place behind closed doors remained there. Yes, the workers behaviour has been modelled by those under them.
One would like to think that people in NZ report abuse but as we know most is not reported. Of course, for every one that is there are many many more that is not. Only the tip of the ice berg is reported.
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Post by mdm on Apr 10, 2015 16:33:17 GMT -5
Historically this covering up was not just a church thing,it was rife in schools, clubs, families etc. Generally it was somethig that was ignored because it was just too difficult/ shameful to deal with. Many of the overseers have been brought up with this mindset. With that in mind I get tired of reading over and over again on this forum about the 'worker cover up'. Obviously they are not the only ones that know of the abuse reported to them. The victim knows, often parents, friends, grandparents etc know. They know the victim (or are the victim), know the situation, the details.If they don't report it they are more at fault than the overseers. If the problem is reported correctly and dealt with by an outside authority how can it be covered up. I say stop blaming the workers and instead look at those who lack the courage to act themselves. It is so easy to say...'oh Im scared of the repercussions-let someone else deal with it' People expect the overseers to handle it correctly when they themselves are not even prepared to touch the problem! I am sorry, but when the workers claim to be the only true ministers of the only true church, and claim that all others are false preachers and false churches, and that unlike them other preachers don't live what they preach, then much more is expected of them than just being like everyone else when it comes to dealing with sexual abuse of children. Besides, it's not true that everyone else ignored CSA in the past. We do hear about cases of not reporting, but that doesn't mean that nobody reported or that everybody refused to deal with CSA in the past. For example, my husband remembers when in the 70's a church in the city he grew up in dealt with a CSA perpetrator and that he was reported to authorities. Also, the congregation we attend now has had a child protection policy since the 70's. So you are willing to put all the blame on the victims and their families who fear that reporting CSA will cause them to lose their reputation and social ties in the church, but you don't put any blame on the ministry which created those conditions in the church?
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Post by fixit on Apr 10, 2015 17:44:50 GMT -5
This is from another thread but I think it fits here quite well: I think of myself as a victim AND a survivor. Most of the time I am a strong, independent person who has got on with her life. I have a good career, strong marriage, assets etc etc and I don't dwell on what happened. Therefore I am a survivor. But there are times when it all comes flooding back and I am a sobbing mess. I just can't completely forget it. I have tried numerous times to forgive them and think I have succeeded but then realise maybe I haven't. I would love to forgive and forget because I know what it says in the bible and also for my own peace of mind. Because I can't fully forget I feel I am still a victim at these times. I do know, however, that is wasn't my fault. I wasn't a precocious child. I was very shy. Both workers were involved for the whole year they were in our home. I couldn't get away from them and when I tried to tell my mother she told me if I told any more lies I would get a flogging. I was 11. The professing culture that enabled Kittens to be hurt so badly is not universal. Some parents make sure workers are never alone with their children, and teach their children about boundaries and keeping themselves safe no matter who the potential offender might be. If some find it offensive to refer to it as "professing culture", then we could refer to it as a professing subculture. Whatever we call it, it has, and probably still does exist. It resulted in: 1. A pair of brother workers sexually abusing an eleven year old in her own home, with impunity. 2. The victim tried to tell her mother and was threatened with a flogging for telling lies. 3. The victim was very shy, not precocious, not "throwing herself at the brother workers tempting them" (not that it would be a valid excuse even if she did). 4. The mother and father, who were good people, were brainwashed into believing that workers could never commit such a crime. Why would they believe that? To be fair to Kitten's parents, having two offending workers in the field would be pretty hard to get their head around. What has been done, or is being done, towards changing the culture to reduce the likelihood of further CSA in the fellowship?
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Post by withlove on Apr 11, 2015 1:00:14 GMT -5
It's easier to throw a saint under the bus than a worker. Saints are a dime a dozen (well, less and less so, but still). To criticize a worker feels like a threat to the kingdom. In a bigger way than having child abusers in the midst does.
And God sees people "protecting" what they think is his kingdom this way.
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