|
Post by applesandbacon on Apr 5, 2015 6:11:47 GMT -5
Applesandbacon I like your point on all workers having police checks and working with childrens. That should be a first. IMO How many people starting out in the work have a police record? If the offender has not been convicted a check will show little. Of course. But at least it would bring us up to the level of every other organization that works with children.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2015 6:35:27 GMT -5
How many people starting out in the work have a police record? If the offender has not been convicted a check will show little. I know of people who went in the work after having a criminal record. Criminal records aren't all that difficult to get, sometimes. And some other criminals turn over a new leaf. The people who need to be excluded are predatory types -- and not just sexual predators. I think it would be very difficult to recognize a wolf especially if it is wearing sheep clothing and blending in; some criminals do turn over a new leaf but there remains an element of suspicion and distrust in people's minds- once bitten twice shy sort of a situation, which is understandable. Ps. What is your definition of "predatory types" and "just sexual predators?" Should any of them be trusted?
|
|
|
Post by rational on Apr 5, 2015 12:51:35 GMT -5
I think educating parents is important, I have given out some pamphlets on abuse to a couple at convention. I think educating parents and children is important. Really educating them. Empowering children to say "No" to anyone. Opening lines of communication with children about any subject.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 5, 2015 18:09:05 GMT -5
I know of people who went in the work after having a criminal record. Criminal records aren't all that difficult to get, sometimes. And some other criminals turn over a new leaf. The people who need to be excluded are predatory types -- and not just sexual predators. I think it would be very difficult to recognize a wolf especially if it is wearing sheep clothing and blending in; some criminals do turn over a new leaf but there remains an element of suspicion and distrust in people's minds- once bitten twice shy sort of a situation, which is understandable. Ps. What is your definition of "predatory types" and "just sexual predators?" Should any of them be trusted? Yes, the wolf is always difficult to recognize ahead of time, and especially before they come in among us. But predatory types always test the waters before they take the risk of taking victims -- and people who are educated about abuse can recognize the tendencies. At least it could prevent them from being victims. But when it comes to workers, people revere them so they don't even let themselves recognize symptoms, and they don't even know what to do about it most of the time. If they're dangerous they should be removed -- not necessarily from fellowship, but access to victims. Predatory types are people who prey on others. Physical abuse is easily recognized, but there are a lot of people, workers included, who prey on vulnerable people. I've known workers who stopped harassing people when the person told them straight up to mind their own business. Most people don't do that with workers. I've known workers who would boot people out for menial offences (in one such case the young man had been speeding on the way to convention) -- picking on people who have no relatives who will go to bat for them against such things. The problem with these workers is that the overseers mostly side with the abusive worker and correct nothing. A worker who brags about his skill at excommunicating people is no better than a policeman who prefers using a SWAT team to arrest a man without giving the man the opportunity to cooperate with his arrest. Sadly tolerating such abuse from workers is more often than not considered the cost of maintaining one's eternal salvation. I realize I'm 'way ahead of most professing people's understanding of emotional abuse, but it's abuse and individual workers "practice" it, not for the gospel's sake, but for the expedience of the technique. A pattern of abuse constitutes a predator.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Apr 5, 2015 22:01:34 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by emy on Apr 5, 2015 22:56:11 GMT -5
Great site, R, and links to other interesting sites.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 6, 2015 1:56:27 GMT -5
And the conclusion, folks, is that the majority of CSA offenders at conventions are parents who offend at home where it's far more convenient.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 2:14:06 GMT -5
Over coffee today a lady told me she doesn't mind her kids watching all "that sex stuff" because "it's all natural." What she minded was the violence. But violence is quite "natural" too.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 6, 2015 2:15:06 GMT -5
Over coffee today a lady told me she doesn't mind her kids watching all "that sex stuff" because "it's all natural." What she minded was the violence. But violence is quite "natural" too. You were talking to a lady about sex?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 2:26:32 GMT -5
No, we were talking about television. How do I know about Rick/Ridge in Bold and the Beautiful? I told a friend "Television is largely about two things - sex and violence." And she replied that isn't the case. Her favorite show is "Bold" so I asked what does the main actor do, the one who's face was on the coffee cup I was drinking from. And she said he has slept with most women on the show. "I rest my case!" I said.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Apr 6, 2015 3:54:57 GMT -5
So Bert, what would you do if you knew a child was being abused? Would you report it ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 4:00:10 GMT -5
I would say the lady I mentioned above, the one who lets her kids watch the sex shows, is abusing her kids (or allowing them to be abused.)
Parents who have no idea where their kids are engage in a form of child abuse too.
It's not the obvious "abuse" you worry about as much as the more common and unrecognized forms. And then, how would you report it?
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Apr 6, 2015 4:47:06 GMT -5
You didn't answer the question Bert ! Seems you don't have an opinion on this, yet you have plenty of opinions on TV shows & sex !!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 5:08:45 GMT -5
I thought I DID answer the question. In this country you can get into trouble for smacking a child. Been cases of people reported for smacking in public - if I was reported I would feel a really strong urge to take a look at the people who reported ME.
And a statistic to cover what I wrote about the lady who didn't care what sex shows her kids were watching
50% of parents polled don’t monitor what their children watch on TV, up from 20% just 15 years earlier. Australian Research Alliance for Children and Youth, Dec 7th 2011
Is that child abuse?
And some more... About 47% of children now belong to single parent "families" Homeless children have doubled in the past three years Teenage binge drinking doubled in 6 years 71% increase in sexual violence against children in 9 years. 30.2% of teenagers have sold, consumed or been offered drugs in the past year 30% increase in children on Care and Protection Orders in six years. 2008 Queensland figures reveal a 2000% (two thousand) rise in the rate of juvenile sex attacks in less than 10 years. 25% of Australian children under the age of 14 have had sex. 30% increase in sexual activity and drinking for year 12 girls since 2002. (Australian Research Centre for Sex, Health and Society.) 40% increase in domestic violence reported in Victoria in 5 years (1996-2012) Victorian Police report Feb 2012. UNH Crimes against Children Research Center (CCRC) 2009. Three out of five children were exposed to violence, abuse or a criminal victimization in the last year, including 46 percent who had been physically assaulted, 10 percent who had been maltreated by a caregiver, 6 percent who had been sexually victimized, and 10 percent who had witnessed an assault within their family. Drug addicted babies tripled in ten years. 2012 Journal American Medical Assoc.. Juvenile male assaults more than doubled in ten years (1527 in 2000-2001 to 3776 in 2009-2010) Vic Children Court stats.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Apr 6, 2015 5:42:30 GMT -5
I thought I DID answer the question. In this country you can get into trouble for smacking a child. Been cases of people reported for smacking in public - if I was reported I would feel a really strong urge to take a look at the people who reported ME. And a statistic to cover what I wrote about the lady who didn't care what sex shows her kids were watching 50% of parents polled don’t monitor what their children watch on TV, up from 20% just 15 years earlier. Australian Research Alliance for Children and Youth, Dec 7th 2011Is that child abuse? And some more... About 47% of children now belong to single parent "families" Homeless children have doubled in the past three years Teenage binge drinking doubled in 6 years 71% increase in sexual violence against children in 9 years. 30.2% of teenagers have sold, consumed or been offered drugs in the past year 30% increase in children on Care and Protection Orders in six years. 2008 Queensland figures reveal a 2000% (two thousand) rise in the rate of juvenile sex attacks in less than 10 years. 25% of Australian children under the age of 14 have had sex. 30% increase in sexual activity and drinking for year 12 girls since 2002. (Australian Research Centre for Sex, Health and Society.) 40% increase in domestic violence reported in Victoria in 5 years (1996-2012) Victorian Police report Feb 2012. UNH Crimes against Children Research Center (CCRC) 2009. Three out of five children were exposed to violence, abuse or a criminal victimization in the last year, including 46 percent who had been physically assaulted, 10 percent who had been maltreated by a caregiver, 6 percent who had been sexually victimized, and 10 percent who had witnessed an assault within their family. Drug addicted babies tripled in ten years. 2012 Journal American Medical Assoc.. Juvenile male assaults more than doubled in ten years (1527 in 2000-2001 to 3776 in 2009-2010) Vic Children Court stats. Bert if you knew of a child being abused within the "Way" for example in your meeting, or at Convention would you report it ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 5:44:28 GMT -5
If I saw "abuse" as YOU chose to define it I would rather involve myself - not the law. The law is for when all else fails.
And "abuse" has multiple meanings. Some will argue that ALL religions engage in "abuse" and thus they are fair targets for secularism.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 7:24:06 GMT -5
reheli, glad to hear you have spoken to BB and some sister workers about abuse. As far as my mother goes. I do not understand your question. My mother has been gone for years. I am so thankful for that because I would not have wanted her to see the state of the "Truth" as it is today. I am sure she would understand my stand against abuse. If you think other wise, then you did not know my mother.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Apr 6, 2015 8:22:24 GMT -5
I would say the lady I mentioned above, the one who lets her kids watch the sex shows, is abusing her kids (or allowing them to be abused.) Parents who have no idea where their kids are engage in a form of child abuse too. It's not the obvious "abuse" you worry about as much as the more common and unrecognized forms. And then, how would you report it? If you believe it is harming the children you could claim neglect, endangerment, or emotional abuse. If you can prove that the scenes depicted were pornographic it is considered a form of sexual child abuse.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 9:38:25 GMT -5
I would say the lady I mentioned above, the one who lets her kids watch the sex shows, is abusing her kids (or allowing them to be abused.) Parents who have no idea where their kids are engage in a form of child abuse too. It's not the obvious "abuse" you worry about as much as the more common and unrecognized forms. And then, how would you report it? If you believe it is harming the children you could claim neglect, endangerment, or emotional abuse. If you can prove that the scenes depicted were pornographic it is considered a form of sexual child abuse. Yep, and one who is concerned for the well being of such children can alert the child protection services.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Apr 6, 2015 11:20:25 GMT -5
If I saw "abuse" as YOU chose to define it I would rather involve myself - not the law. The law is for when all else fails. And "abuse" has multiple meanings. Some will argue that ALL religions engage in "abuse" and thus they are fair targets for secularism. Ok, just to be clear, if you came across someone at convention molesting a juvenile sexually what would you do? Since you say you wouldn't report it to the police so the justice system can work, what exactly would you do?
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 6, 2015 17:58:44 GMT -5
I would say the lady I mentioned above, the one who lets her kids watch the sex shows, is abusing her kids (or allowing them to be abused.) Parents who have no idea where their kids are engage in a form of child abuse too. It's not the obvious "abuse" you worry about as much as the more common and unrecognized forms. And then, how would you report it? Bert, if that's what you think of her kids watching TV, then it's OBVIOUS because the told you herself. And this is how you report it. You pick up the telephone and call child protective services, and they'll do the rest. Your job will have been completed.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 6, 2015 18:07:18 GMT -5
No, we were talking about television. How do I know about Rick/Ridge in Bold and the Beautiful? I told a friend "Television is largely about two things - sex and violence." And she replied that isn't the case. She's absolutely right, Bert. I guess you don't watch much TV after all. But if you're interested, you can subscribe to the porn channels. The "Spice" channel isn't even about cooking, I've heard. So you think kids could learn a lot about sex from the Bold and the Beautiful? ?? But then, I had a "professing" roommate when I went to college who was embarrassed by my parents inappropriate behavior in front of us kids when he went home with me for the weekend. Turned out he'd never even seen his parents kiss, and he was 18. I had no idea my parents were exhibitionists.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Apr 6, 2015 19:31:19 GMT -5
If I saw "abuse" as YOU chose to define it I would rather involve myself - not the law. The law is for when all else fails. And "abuse" has multiple meanings. Some will argue that ALL religions engage in "abuse" and thus they are fair targets for secularism. Bert why is it so hard for you to answer a simple question, if you knew a child was being abused by a worker a convention for example what would you do ? Would you report it to the authorities? A simple yes or no is all you need to say !
|
|
|
Post by rational on Apr 6, 2015 22:39:00 GMT -5
I would say the lady I mentioned above, the one who lets her kids watch the sex shows, is abusing her kids (or allowing them to be abused.) Parents who have no idea where their kids are engage in a form of child abuse too. It's not the obvious "abuse" you worry about as much as the more common and unrecognized forms. And then, how would you report it? When you mention "sex shows" are you talking about shows like "The Bold and the Beautiful"? While it might have sexual overtones I doubt it could be considered child abuse. I find it somewhat disturbing that you would consider watching broadcast TV to be a form of child abuse yet seemingly are OK with striking a child as a form of punishment.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 6, 2015 23:14:52 GMT -5
If I saw "abuse" as YOU chose to define it I would rather involve myself - not the law. The law is for when all else fails. And "abuse" has multiple meanings. Some will argue that ALL religions engage in "abuse" and thus they are fair targets for secularism. Bert why is it so hard for you to answer a simple question, if you knew a child was being abused by a worker a convention for example what would you do ? Would you report it to the authorities? A simple yes or no is all you need to say ! Bert usually slithers around long enough that it's hard to even remember what one originally asked him. Right, Bert?
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Apr 7, 2015 2:23:04 GMT -5
If I saw "abuse" as YOU chose to define it I would rather involve myself - not the law. The law is for when all else fails. And "abuse" has multiple meanings. Some will argue that ALL religions engage in "abuse" and thus they are fair targets for secularism. If you believe in God then you would go to the police! When asked about taxes to Caesar, Jesus replied, render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God. I would do this with the law as well, if you abuse a child not only are you doing wrong before God, but you are breaking man's law. A child is innocent, If I knew a child was getting abused, I would have no hesitation, I would phone the authorities! You can't let anyone off with abusing innocent children!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 3:05:03 GMT -5
Frankly I doubt I will ever see a Worker "abusing" a child at convention. And frankly, the statistics I gave above are not seen as abuse by a growing percentage of the population. I see the clamor over child sex abuse in the professions a sort of foil for the growing abuse of children within society in general.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Apr 7, 2015 3:37:27 GMT -5
Frankly I doubt I will ever see a Worker "abusing" a child at convention. And frankly, the statistics I gave above are not seen as abuse by a growing percentage of the population. I see the clamor over child sex abuse in the professions a sort of foil for the growing abuse of children within society in general. Bert you still have not answered the question, if you knew a child was being abused by a worker at convention would you report it to the authorities ? You obviously are not aware of the amount of children that have been abused at convention on pack-up day !! Stop avoiding a straight question Bert, either yes or no will do
|
|