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Post by maryhig on Mar 31, 2015 1:51:03 GMT -5
By the way, I know God's there and hope everyone gets in. But he decides not me and I know he looks at the heart so if the heart is good hopefully we'll be there and that includes myself also because I wouldn't dare say I was in and others aren't! Because I don't know who's in or not and it's not for me to say!
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stevo
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Post by stevo on Mar 31, 2015 2:01:47 GMT -5
How much money did Jesus have? how much money did the disciples have? None is the answer but they had the wealth of gold in there hearts being the holy spirit, which gave them powers to heal to give sight to the blind to give ears to hear to raise people from there beds. Neither have these two people have power as there hearts are not with God and only God can give you that power so the man on the yacht is he doing Gods work while on the sea and the atheist does not know God so how can he have his power to really help people or himself, he might give a bit of comfort for a little while but it won't be forever. lasting
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 2:07:55 GMT -5
Bob, I assume you are speaking here of the biblical God here and not Allah or one of the other Gods. The biblical God will treat the virtuous non Christian in exactly the same way as he treated the virtuous non Isrealite in the Old Testament or as he has promised to treat the virtuous non believer in the Book of Revelations. So believe not at your peril irrespective of your virtuosity. However, fortunately the biblical God is just a biblical creation and is not to be taken too seriously outside of theology. You'll be reassured to know that the only true God, the God of Nature, doesn't get too concerned about whether you are virtuous or not, or indeed what religion you are. The rain falls on the just and the unjust and the sun tends to rise in the east every morning irrespective of such things as honesty or sincerity or virtuosity. Alas. Matt10 Somewhere between the first and second sentences I decided the rest of it couldn't make any sense. Sorry. I'll simplify it for you. God will treat the highly virtuous non Christian according to the belief system of the believer. The answer to your question Is therefore dependent on who you ask it to. There is no singe universal answer to your question. Matt10
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 3:37:14 GMT -5
Who said anything about spreading the word of god? I was talking about the man using his wealth to help others. I'm assuming you believe there is a heaven. I guess my question to you really should be: If there is a heaven, would it not still exist if a person didn't believe it was there? Atheists and Christians inhabit the same cosmos, don't they? And if you read what I had written and what you were commenting on, I was talking about the word of God! When I wrote what I did about the atheist, it was because every time people of God say things about what an atheist will do if God does this or that they reply something like this "I don't believe God exists, So why will it apply to me I don't believe in a God" So how can God reward someone who denies he's there? If he doesn't exist to you, a reward from him wouldn't be of importance to you, would it? Because we are talking about a none existing "supernatural" being according to some. I've seen some insults to God on here. I hope and pray he forgives you all that have been involved! But then again you don't believe in him anyway! Don't take such an uppity attitude. I asked you a question about what you believed, not what I believe. Don't you think if you're going to have any chance of converting someone you should answer their questions -- if you have an answer. All I want to know is what YOU believe happens to a perfectly moral and fine living non Christian when he/she dies.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 3:42:54 GMT -5
By the way, I know God's there and hope everyone gets in. But he decides not me and I know he looks at the heart so if the heart is good hopefully we'll be there and that includes myself also because I wouldn't dare say I was in and others aren't! Because I don't know who's in or not and it's not for me to say! Okay then - you don't know. You could have said that to begin with. Can you share, for the atheists' benefit, if you have any inkling at all that God will take the highest of moral and best of heart atheists into heaven? Or, barring that, what reason would your god have to keep them out?
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Post by bubbles on Mar 31, 2015 3:44:01 GMT -5
I think the principle of reaping what you sow would apply. So you don't really have to be a Christian to go to heaven, then? There are spiritual principles that work regardless of belief. Giving is one. Reaping what you sow would be another.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 3:45:10 GMT -5
How much money did Jesus have? how much money did the disciples have? None is the answer but they had the wealth of gold in there hearts being the holy spirit, which gave them powers to heal to give sight to the blind to give ears to hear to raise people from there beds. Neither have these two people have power as there hearts are not with God and only God can give you that power so the man on the yacht is he doing Gods work while on the sea and the atheist does not know God so how can he have his power to really help people or himself, he might give a bit of comfort for a little while but it won't be forever. lasting But you're not answering the question about the eternal salvation of a totally upright atheist.
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Post by bubbles on Mar 31, 2015 3:46:22 GMT -5
So you don't really have to be a Christian to go to heaven, then? There are spiritual principles that work regardless of belief. Giving is one. Reaping what you sow would be another. You already know what the bible says. There is nothing in the OP regarding your question.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 3:47:15 GMT -5
Somewhere between the first and second sentences I decided the rest of it couldn't make any sense. Sorry. I'll simplify it for you. God will treat the highly virtuous non Christian according to the belief system of the believer. The answer to your question Is therefore dependent on who you ask it to. There is no singe universal answer to your question. Matt10 So are they all right, or is yours the only correct answer? What do you tell a "seeking soul"?
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 31, 2015 3:49:58 GMT -5
There are spiritual principles that work regardless of belief. Giving is one. Reaping what you sow would be another. You already know what the bible says. Yes, I know what the Bible says. I wanted to know what you believe is the possibility of a perfectly upright atheist going to heaven. The Bible says nothing about atheists, and what is going to happen to them when they die.
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Post by maryhig on Mar 31, 2015 4:12:58 GMT -5
And if you read what I had written and what you were commenting on, I was talking about the word of God! When I wrote what I did about the atheist, it was because every time people of God say things about what an atheist will do if God does this or that they reply something like this "I don't believe God exists, So why will it apply to me I don't believe in a God" So how can God reward someone who denies he's there? If he doesn't exist to you, a reward from him wouldn't be of importance to you, would it? Because we are talking about a none existing "supernatural" being according to some. I've seen some insults to God on here. I hope and pray he forgives you all that have been involved! But then again you don't believe in him anyway! Don't take such an uppity attitude. I asked you a question about what you believed, not what I believe. Don't you think if you're going to have any chance of converting someone you should answer their questions -- if you have an answer. All I want to know is what YOU believe happens to a perfectly moral and fine living non Christian when he/she dies. Do I sound uppity because I say that atheists say they don't believe in God so they won't worry about going to heaven? That's the truth! Anyway. I don't know who's going to heaven, I'm not God, but I hope with all my heart that they go to heaven! I believe in God myself and I wouldn't dare say I'm going to heaven never mind anyone else! But I hope everyone gets in!
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Post by maryhig on Mar 31, 2015 4:17:21 GMT -5
And if you read what I had written and what you were commenting on, I was talking about the word of God! When I wrote what I did about the atheist, it was because every time people of God say things about what an atheist will do if God does this or that they reply something like this "I don't believe God exists, So why will it apply to me I don't believe in a God" So how can God reward someone who denies he's there? If he doesn't exist to you, a reward from him wouldn't be of importance to you, would it? Because we are talking about a none existing "supernatural" being according to some. I've seen some insults to God on here. I hope and pray he forgives you all that have been involved! But then again you don't believe in him anyway! Don't take such an uppity attitude. I asked you a question about what you believed, not what I believe. Don't you think if you're going to have any chance of converting someone you should answer their questions -- if you have an answer. All I want to know is what YOU believe happens to a perfectly moral and fine living non Christian when he/she dies. You know Bob, you tell me not to be uppity then talk to me in capital letters like I'm thick? I got what you said earlier, and if you look previous posts I have always said I hope that all get to go to heaven. Not just Christians! I had already told you what I think before you asked!
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Post by maryhig on Mar 31, 2015 4:19:50 GMT -5
By the way, I know God's there and hope everyone gets in. But he decides not me and I know he looks at the heart so if the heart is good hopefully we'll be there and that includes myself also because I wouldn't dare say I was in and others aren't! Because I don't know who's in or not and it's not for me to say! Okay then - you don't know. You could have said that to begin with. Can you share, for the atheists' benefit, if you have any inkling at all that God will take the highest of moral and best of heart atheists into heaven? Or, barring that, what reason would your god have to keep them out? I did say this before you asked your last question? You know what, why would you be asking this question. Because a true atheist wouldn't be bothered about going to heaven because they don't believe God exists so why ask so many questions? Without me going through many posts, do you believe in God? Edit: By looking at the humour board I'm guessing you don't. Your jokes about Jesus are offensive and disgusting!
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Post by bubbles on Mar 31, 2015 5:12:12 GMT -5
You already know what the bible says. Yes, I know what the Bible says. I wanted to know what you believe is the possibility of a perfectly upright atheist going to heaven. The Bible says nothing about atheists, and what is going to happen to them when they die. Who am I to judge that? Ive said a number of times that its the father who calls and the holy spirit who convicts people. The bible talks a lot about salvation/reconcilation with the father through Christ. With your theological knowledge Im surprised you are asking. Maybe you are looking for an arguement? I look at the bigger picture. .he loves the people he created including atheists. His mercys are new every morning.
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Post by placid-void on Mar 31, 2015 8:50:02 GMT -5
Two men, both of whom amassed a considerable fortune in business, have lived decidedly different lifestyles. Person A is devoutly Christian, attends church regularly, and re-invests most of his wealth in his business, but now that he is retired (early) spends most of his time racing yachts. His pleasure yacht is worth well over $1 billion. Person B is an atheist/agnostic, and now that he has retired has sold all his shares, set up a multi-billion dollar foundation and spends much of his time organizing the foundation's efforts to tackle the world's diseases and improve the standard of education around the world. It strikes me that according to conventional theology, person A has a better than even chance of entering heaven, and person B, given that he remains an atheist/ agnostic, will roast in Hell eternally. How is this just, and how does this accord with the parable of the talents? Unlike many of the previous respondents who know the answer, I am unable to know the answer to your conventional theological question. Criteria for entrance to heaven or hell are beyond by ability and desire to set and well beyond my wisdom to enumerate. Were I to aspire to the quiet reflections of one or the other of the two persons for whom you have given us limited data, I would aspire to the reflections of Person B.
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Post by snow on Mar 31, 2015 10:41:10 GMT -5
There is no God but Allah, so both of them are going to hell! Really simple folks!
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Post by xna on Mar 31, 2015 10:50:41 GMT -5
Two men, both of whom amassed a considerable fortune in business, have lived decidedly different lifestyles. Person A is devoutly Christian, attends church regularly, and re-invests most of his wealth in his business, but now that he is retired (early) spends most of his time racing yachts. His pleasure yacht is worth well over $1 billion. Person B is an atheist/agnostic, and now that he has retired has sold all his shares, set up a multi-billion dollar foundation and spends much of his time organizing the foundation's efforts to tackle the world's diseases and improve the standard of education around the world. It strikes me that according to conventional theology, person A has a better than even chance of entering heaven, and person B, given that he remains an atheist/ agnostic, will roast in Hell eternally. How is this just, and how does this accord with the parable of the talents? It begs the question asked by many people to many gods. Would a just god create & allow worldwide disease and suffering ending in death? Is that god; Able, but not willing? Willing, but not able? If neither willing nor able, why call him god?
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Post by rational on Mar 31, 2015 11:10:57 GMT -5
And if you read what I had written and what you were commenting on, I was talking about the word of God! When I wrote what I did about the atheist, it was because every time people of God say things about what an atheist will do if God does this or that they reply something like this "I don't believe God exists, So why will it apply to me I don't believe in a God" So how can God reward someone who denies he's there? If he doesn't exist to you, a reward from him wouldn't be of importance to you, would it? Because we are talking about a none existing "supernatural" being according to some. I've seen some insults to God on here. I hope and pray he forgives you all that have been involved! But then again you don't believe in him anyway! Perhaps heaven is just a state of mind. Because you believe it exists for you but not for me. Like Schrödinger's cat in a box, you don't know what is there until you "open the box".
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Post by rational on Mar 31, 2015 11:12:27 GMT -5
How much money did Jesus have? how much money did the disciples have? None is the answer but they had the wealth of gold in there hearts being the holy spirit, which gave them powers to heal to give sight to the blind to give ears to hear to raise people from there beds. What was in the bag that Judas carried?
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Post by maryhig on Mar 31, 2015 11:20:12 GMT -5
And if you read what I had written and what you were commenting on, I was talking about the word of God! When I wrote what I did about the atheist, it was because every time people of God say things about what an atheist will do if God does this or that they reply something like this "I don't believe God exists, So why will it apply to me I don't believe in a God" So how can God reward someone who denies he's there? If he doesn't exist to you, a reward from him wouldn't be of importance to you, would it? Because we are talking about a none existing "supernatural" being according to some. I've seen some insults to God on here. I hope and pray he forgives you all that have been involved! But then again you don't believe in him anyway! Perhaps heaven is just a state of mind. Because you believe it exists for you but not for me. Like Schrödinger's cat in a box, you don't know what is there until you "open the box". Hi Rational! I have said before I've had proof and know God exists and it's definitely not my mind playing tricks! I've got no doubt whatsoever! The box had been opened for me!
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Post by rational on Mar 31, 2015 11:22:34 GMT -5
Perhaps heaven is just a state of mind. Because you believe it exists for you but not for me. Like Schrödinger's cat in a box, you don't know what is there until you "open the box". Hi Rational! I have said before I've had proof and know God exists and it's definitely not my mind playing tricks! I've got no doubt whatsoever! The box had been opened for me! :) I was talking about heaven. Have you been there to confirm?!?
Do you have travel photos??
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Post by maryhig on Mar 31, 2015 11:43:07 GMT -5
Hi Rational! I have said before I've had proof and know God exists and it's definitely not my mind playing tricks! I've got no doubt whatsoever! The box had been opened for me! I was talking about heaven. Have you been there to confirm?!?
Do you have travel photos??I have many pictures of heaven in my heart, when I see my grandchildren smile, when I feel deep love for the people around me. When I feel at peace. When God shows me he's there. When I close my eyes and feel the heat of the sun warm the depths of my heart. When I'm up a mountain and the air flows through my hair. When I look around and see the beautiful things God has created. The flowers, the trees, the clear water in rivers, the moon and the stars I see God everywhere and in everything. And I know I am blessed! I was walking along the beach one day, and the wind was tossing the waves, but the sea was out. Left behind were small pools of water. And they were still. They showed a reflection of the heavens above. The sea couldn't show anything because it was in turmoil. And I thought it was like us. The sea is like the world. A dangerous place that can pull you in and put you to death. But when you separate yourself (like those pools of water) you are at peace and still., you are than able to show a reflection of heaven in your life for all to see. These are pictures of heaven!
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Post by snow on Mar 31, 2015 11:57:04 GMT -5
What if the afterlife is totally different from what you picture? What if there is such a thing as reincarnation because we can't get it right by only living once. What if? What if the true God is really Allah and all Christians are going to hell because they are worshiping the wrong God? Or Thor? Or Zeus? I think you get my drift?
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Post by maryhig on Mar 31, 2015 12:05:14 GMT -5
What if the afterlife is totally different from what you picture? What if there is such a thing as reincarnation because we can't get it right by only living once. What if? What if the true God is really Allah and all Christians are going to hell because they are worshiping the wrong God? Or Thor? Or Zeus? I think you get my drift? If that was for me snow, I'm not worshipping the wrong God, remember I don't believe in religion, I worship the God of love. And maybe we do come back who knows?
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Post by snow on Mar 31, 2015 12:14:17 GMT -5
What if the afterlife is totally different from what you picture? What if there is such a thing as reincarnation because we can't get it right by only living once. What if? What if the true God is really Allah and all Christians are going to hell because they are worshiping the wrong God? Or Thor? Or Zeus? I think you get my drift? If that was for me snow, I'm not worshipping the wrong God, remember I don't believe in religion, I worship the God of love. And maybe we do come back who knows? Not for you in particular maryhig, but just questions thrown out there because there really is no way of knowing for sure. You worship the God of Love. Is that different from the Christian God? Matt10 says his god is the God of Nature. Is that similar? There are so many versions of God so does your definition of God include all the them? These are the questions I ask. Sometimes I think it would be so nice to just be sure about something like some people on here are. But there are too many variables for me to think about.
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Post by maryhig on Mar 31, 2015 12:20:54 GMT -5
If that was for me snow, I'm not worshipping the wrong God, remember I don't believe in religion, I worship the God of love. And maybe we do come back who knows? Not for you in particular maryhig, but just questions thrown out there because there really is no way of knowing for sure. You worship the God of Love. Is that different from the Christian God? Matt10 says his god is the God of Nature. Is that similar? There are so many versions of God so does your definition of God include all the them? These are the questions I ask. Sometimes I think it would be so nice to just be sure about something like some people on here are. But there are too many variables for me to think about. If being a Christian means following Christ then yes I am. If it means believing in a trinity and crucifying Jesus to save me then no I'm not. But I do love God and follow Jesus so I call myself a Christian in that respect. But I definitely don't believe in organised religion! And God is there for all of us!
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Post by rational on Mar 31, 2015 13:11:50 GMT -5
If being a Christian means following Christ then yes I am. If it means believing in a trinity and crucifying Jesus to save me then no I'm not. You are redefining christianity. I am sure there are those who have a very definite idea of the requirements to be a christian. Without the redeeming aspects of the crucifixion how do you feel about the possibility of Jesus rising from the dead?Why have you decided to follow Christ as opposed to someone else?
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Post by maryhig on Mar 31, 2015 13:16:11 GMT -5
If being a Christian means following Christ then yes I am. If it means believing in a trinity and crucifying Jesus to save me then no I'm not. You are redefining christianity. I am sure there are those who have a very definite idea of the requirements to be a christian. Without the redeeming aspects of the crucifixion how do you feel about the possibility of Jesus rising from the dead?Why have you decided to follow Christ as opposed to someone else? Jesus is risen in his people's hearts
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