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Post by Greg on Mar 29, 2015 14:38:50 GMT -5
Not sure what this means. What is the practice and the limit? Admin: appreciate your participation on this thread! a) Firstly; just to clarify, you are a participating member of the '2x2' fellowship? b)What is your basis/criteria for accepting someone as a fellow believer of Jesus Christ? c)In your mind could/would such a person fully participate in all activities of our church/fellowship and would you also fully participate in all activities of their church/fellowship? I'm interested to know your convictions, views and practice! Thanks! Hi review005, Good to have you here also! a) Yes, enjoy the participation and staunchly loyal (which is why problems in the fellowship are of deep concern). b) Confession of Jesus Christ as Lord (with evidence such as we can humanly discern that the person is genuine in their belief and commitment). c) In principle and ideally, yes to the first part. The RC church forbids Protestants from partaking of communion. Again in principle, I would not wish for my church to forbid communion with any fellow-believer whom God has sealed with his indwelling Spirit. In practice, we don't wish to offend or upset others of our brethren who don't share our conviction. Second part, if the church is doctrinally sound (essentially bible-based) then yes. Also I'm interested to know your convictions and views. I accept that as a minister in the F&W fellowship, you will not have the liberty that others of us do in terms of the practice. I respect you in that. admin
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Post by fixit on Mar 29, 2015 21:21:00 GMT -5
Every religious group has limits.
In the 2x2 group, the ministry maintains control.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 0:12:24 GMT -5
Every religious group has limits. In the 2x2 group, the ministry maintains control. so Christ is not involved?
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Post by fixit on Mar 30, 2015 4:03:23 GMT -5
Every religious group has limits. In the 2x2 group, the ministry maintains control. so Christ is not involved? Sometimes.
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Post by blacksheep on Mar 30, 2015 7:16:50 GMT -5
Every religious group has limits. In the 2x2 group, the ministry maintains control. so Christ is not involved? Let's put it this way: If Christ showed up at a meeting, He'd be required to profess through a Worker before He'd be allowed to speak and partake of the emblems.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 7:34:46 GMT -5
Every religious group has limits. In the 2x2 group, the ministry maintains control. so Christ is not involved? Depends what you mean by "involved." If you think Jesus must appear in person at every church for every service
... then then let us all know what church you attend.
But if Christ is involved through obedience to the scripture and to the spirit, then I would say yes, Christ IS involved in most things in the ministry.
And the corollary, is Christ involved in mainstream churches? I would say that if He is, then He must be quite schizophrenic.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 8:20:47 GMT -5
Well according to the scriptures, where two or three and more are gathered in His name, He will be there in the midst of them., so even by His presence He is involved by associating, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 8:54:20 GMT -5
so Christ is not involved? Depends what you mean by "involved." If you think Jesus must appear in person at every church for every service
... then then let us all know what church you attend.
But if Christ is involved through obedience to the scripture and to the spirit, then I would say yes, Christ IS involved in most things in the ministry.
And the corollary, is Christ involved in mainstream churches? I would say that if He is, then He must be quite schizophrenic.Ouuuuuuuuuuuuch! Lord have mercy! " He must be quite schizophrenic?" Careful: Luke 4:12, Matthew 4:7, Deut 6: 16. Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. I think that some one might have to go and say a dozen Hail Mary's quickly. "He must be quite schizophrenic? ?? He is the perfect one, so given that He is perfect, then anything He does is just PERFECT. Anyway, what do I know, I am not an exclusivist, and just a dumb humble servant.
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Post by mdm on Mar 30, 2015 9:46:11 GMT -5
Not sure what this means. What is the practice and the limit? Hi review005, Good to have you here also! a) Yes, enjoy the participation and staunchly loyal (which is why problems in the fellowship are of deep concern). b) Confession of Jesus Christ as Lord (with evidence such as we can humanly discern that the person is genuine in their belief and commitment). c) In principle and ideally, yes to the first part. The RC church forbids Protestants from partaking of communion. Again in principle, I would not wish for my church to forbid communion with any fellow-believer whom God has sealed with his indwelling Spirit. In practice, we don't wish to offend or upset others of our brethren who don't share our conviction. Second part, if the church is doctrinally sound (essentially bible-based) then yes. Also I'm interested to know your convictions and views. I accept that as a minister in the F&W fellowship, you will not have the liberty that others of us do in terms of the practice. I respect you in that. admin I understood it to mean that while individual professing people may have spiritual fellowship with members of other churches, workers cannot as it would go against the official belief that one has to be in the Fellowship in order to be a true Christian. Professing people are not bound to the same level of exclusivity that the workers are bound to. Admin, if this is not what you had in mind, please correct me!
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Post by blacksheep on Mar 30, 2015 13:16:41 GMT -5
Let's put it this way: If Christ showed up at a meeting, He'd be required to profess through a Worker before He'd be allowed to speak and partake of the emblems. Well, that is NOT universal practice... Most meeting places in USA the guest non-2x2 believers can speak and partake the emblems if they wish for awhile, but after so many months they must declare if this is the fellowship they want to be part of.Well alrighty, then! After a few months Christ would have to declare that He wanted to be a part of the 2x2 fellowship by professing through the Workers. Lord knows they wouldn't recognize Him on His own.
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Post by snow on Mar 30, 2015 14:03:35 GMT -5
Well alrighty, then! After a few months Christ would have to declare that He wanted to be a part of the 2x2 fellowship by professing through the Workers. Lord knows they wouldn't recognize Him on His own. Those in the meetings will listen intently what He/Christ has to say... was it according to the REAL Jesus teachings or NOT, was it edifying, encouraging to our faith. We can't see heartily "Amen" if what he said is contradict to His teachings.
I Cor. 14:23-26 If therefore the whole church come together into one place and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are unlearned or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not or is unlearned, he is convinced by all and is judged by all, and thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God and report that God is in you in truth.
26 How is it then, brethren? When ye come together every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
If the REAL Jesus ever attend the 2x2 fellowship meeting he wouldn't speak things or do things contradict to His teachings. Jesus warns about false christs in Matthew 24:23-24 if any man shall say unto you, ‘Lo, here is Christ,’ or ‘there,’ believe it not. For there shall arise false christs and false prophets and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
What an interesting reply. So you're saying that if Christ came into the meetings and started preaching something different from what is in the bible, which is written by man btw, you would not believe him and discount what he has to say? Wow! What if the bible got him all wrong and he comes back to try and right all the wrong things that have been said about him? You wouldn't believe him? Interesting.
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Post by blacksheep on Mar 30, 2015 15:15:05 GMT -5
LUKE 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
So.....if He shows up carrying a sword, and without a garment, He might be accepted, right?
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Post by fixit on Mar 30, 2015 16:38:28 GMT -5
John wrote in I John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but test the spirits whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. Here's my test Nathan:
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Post by fred on Mar 30, 2015 16:50:04 GMT -5
Let's put it this way: If Christ showed up at a meeting, He'd be required to profess through a Worker before He'd be allowed to speak and partake of the emblems. Well, that is NOT universal practice... Most meeting places in USA the guest non-2x2 believers can speak and partake the emblems if they wish for awhile, but after so many months they must declare if this is the fellowship they want to be part of.Really? I am wondering if this is just wishful thinking - perhaps folks from the US could verify. Most certainly not the case in Australia.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 30, 2015 16:52:39 GMT -5
What an interesting reply. So you're saying that if Christ came into the meetings and started preaching something different from what is in the bible, which is written by man btw, you would not believe him and discount what he has to say? Wow! What if the bible got him all wrong and he comes back to try and right all the wrong things that have been said about him? You wouldn't believe him? Interesting. Yes, we will compare and judges the words he speaks whether he is the real deal or not according to His own words in the gospels, epistles of the apostles, and other information is available in the deadseas Scrolls. Sometimes we can sense the spirit in the person...
At convention pay attention to the children, when someone give his/her testimony by saying something out of place or doesn't sound right, you can see their heads pop ups, and turn around and look at the person. They can sense the spirits in people.
John wrote in I John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but test the spirits whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
What is really meant by "saying something out of place or doesn't sound right," is that it isn't quite adhering to the tried & trite speech someone is suppose to parrot.
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Post by snow on Mar 30, 2015 17:52:05 GMT -5
What an interesting reply. So you're saying that if Christ came into the meetings and started preaching something different from what is in the bible, which is written by man btw, you would not believe him and discount what he has to say? Wow! What if the bible got him all wrong and he comes back to try and right all the wrong things that have been said about him? You wouldn't believe him? Interesting. Yes, we will compare and judges the words he speaks whether he is the real deal or not according to His own words in the gospels, epistles of the apostles, and other information is available in the deadseas Scrolls. Sometimes we can sense the spirit in the person... At convention pay attention to the children, when someone give his/her testimony by saying something out of place or doesn't sound right, you can see their heads pop ups, and turn around and look at the person. They can sense the spirits in people.
John wrote in I John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but test the spirits whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
I truly find that interesting. Especially since it is altogether possible the bible is wrong about Jesus. Then what? You would have denied Jesus because you thought a book written by men was more accurate than Jesus himself.
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Post by Gene on Mar 30, 2015 18:52:02 GMT -5
so Christ is not involved? Let's put it this way: If Christ showed up at a meeting, He'd be required to profess through a Worker before He'd be allowed to speak and partake of the emblems. He'd have to get a haircut, too. And stop wearing those floor-length evening gowns.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 18:58:34 GMT -5
Well, that is NOT universal practice... Most meeting places in USA the guest non-2x2 believers can speak and partake the emblems if they wish for awhile, but after so many months they must declare if this is the fellowship they want to be part of. Really? I am wondering if this is just wishful thinking - perhaps folks from the US could verify. Most certainly not the case in Australia. I am not aware of that practice either; my understanding is that one cannot even partake of the emblems until they have been baptised; when I myself was baptised the brother worker who baptised me said to me, you can now partake of the emblems. When I professed I was told that I was free to pray and speak in meetings.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 19:02:23 GMT -5
In the Old Testament, strangers were allowed to partake of the passover.
I believe that there should be limits on a ministers power through a council where you can have an open hearing and present your side of the story. I believe that there is a communication gap between and among the Servants and Saints in the "Kingdom". A more open culture free of ridicule, criticism, shunning, bullying etc. would go a long way towards dealing with problems that are discussed over and over here. Until there is some openness, I am not sure the CSA issue has been dealt with. There is still the tendency to avoid a showdown with workers, meeting folks and professing relatives that would take place in reporting CSA to law authorities. The 2012 TX elder You Tube video shows that there is still a heavy handed top down authoritative power structure in the "Kingdom". Today's overseers still want the little people of the Kingdom to be seen and not heard from when problems arise.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 19:04:09 GMT -5
I have seen the workers tolerate an outsider partaking of the emblems IF they think the outsider doesn't know better. Someone born and raised in "Truth" wouldn't have that opportunity.
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Post by fixit on Mar 30, 2015 19:35:45 GMT -5
Let's put it this way: If Christ showed up at a meeting, He'd be required to profess through a Worker before He'd be allowed to speak and partake of the emblems. He'd have to get a haircut, too. And stop wearing those floor-length evening gowns. How about the sandals?
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Post by snow on Mar 30, 2015 20:39:47 GMT -5
He'd have to get a haircut, too. And stop wearing those floor-length evening gowns. How about the sandals? It's okay, he's not a woman.
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Post by mdm on Mar 30, 2015 20:49:06 GMT -5
Really? I am wondering if this is just wishful thinking - perhaps folks from the US could verify. Most certainly not the case in Australia. I am not aware of that practice either; my understanding is that one cannot even partake of the emblems until they have been baptised; when I myself was baptised the brother worker who baptised me said to me, you can now partake of the emblems. When I professed I was told that I was free to pray and speak in meetings. In the US people visiting meetings for the first time may take part not realizing it's not appropriate. From my experience, meeting folks don't mind. I know of a visitor who took part for a while until she was told by an elderly (not active) worker to stop. I don't think anyone else minded her taking part, even appreciated it and were touched by it. Of course, there was an expectation that she would profess. Also one can partake of emblems before they are baptized. I assume that in yours and Fred's part of the world visitors are not allowed in Sunday and Wednesday meetings?
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Post by snow on Mar 30, 2015 21:18:37 GMT -5
I was not allowed to take part in emblems until I was baptized. So my experience is like partaker.
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Post by fred on Mar 30, 2015 22:09:00 GMT -5
I am not aware of that practice either; my understanding is that one cannot even partake of the emblems until they have been baptised; when I myself was baptised the brother worker who baptised me said to me, you can now partake of the emblems. When I professed I was told that I was free to pray and speak in meetings. In the US people visiting meetings for the first time may take part not realizing it's not appropriate. From my experience, meeting folks don't mind. I know of a visitor who took part for a while until she was told by an elderly (not active) worker to stop. I don't think anyone else minded her taking part, even appreciated it and were touched by it. Of course, there was an expectation that she would profess. Also one can partake of emblems before they are baptized. I assume that in yours and Fred's part of the world visitors are not allowed in Sunday and Wednesday meetings? Not exactly 'not allowed', but certainly actively discouraged.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 22:40:48 GMT -5
so Christ is not involved? Let's put it this way: If Christ showed up at a meeting, He'd be required to profess through a Worker before He'd be allowed to speak and partake of the emblems. why would that be?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 22:45:05 GMT -5
so Christ is not involved? Depends what you mean by "involved." If you think Jesus must appear in person at every church for every service
... then then let us all know what church you attend.
But if Christ is involved through obedience to the scripture and to the spirit, then I would say yes, Christ IS involved in most things in the ministry.
And the corollary, is Christ involved in mainstream churches? I would say that if He is, then He must be quite schizophrenic.my question was in answer to this statement [In the 2x2 group, the ministry maintains control.] funny thing is who controls the ministry?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 22:46:38 GMT -5
Well according to the scriptures, where two or three and more are gathered in His name, He will be there in the midst of them., so even by His presence He is involved by associating, IMO. He is in all meetings in His Spiritual presents
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