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Post by bubbles on Mar 25, 2015 20:52:26 GMT -5
Because, Maja, they have no idea of such an experience, cannot understand it through their banks of knowledge and experience, and view everything in life from the mindset they hold. Don't we all view everything in life from the mindset we hold? A mind set that has been formed by our life experiences.The posts of believers are as valid as the posts of non-believers. When they claim to be posting facts do you not think that asking them for verification is permissible? No one is all knowing. That's why people question. Geez you can be so reasonable at times ratz. Almost likeable... Riseup Dennis be strong.
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Post by bubbles on Mar 25, 2015 20:54:27 GMT -5
Dmmich Im tentatively taking you off ignore. Hoping the bridge can be built. Why dont you share some of your experiences? Im interested.
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Post by rational on Mar 25, 2015 23:06:26 GMT -5
]Geez you can be so reasonable at times ratz. Almost likeable... Almost?!?
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 25, 2015 23:42:14 GMT -5
Dmmich Im tentatively taking you off ignore. Hoping the bridge can be built. Why dont you share some of your experiences? Im interested. Thanks, I tend to not put people on ignore unless they are really obnoxious, because I like to hear different peoples stories & wonder how they got to the place that they are. It just amazes me!
Also causes me to look back & see some of the places where I once was. For example I fell hook, line & sinker for Erich von Däniken works for a long time! I also thought that Immanuel Velikovsky really had a window on what happened in history.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 26, 2015 0:01:55 GMT -5
In all fairness to Dennis he said "some of us" and not "all of us." So in my estimation he did not include everyone, just some. So he is not claiming that he is the only one who had ever had experiences, nor is he denying or negating others peoples' experiences IMO.It would be reckless of him to make such a claim, and I think that he is too thoughtful and clever for that. You are kind to give Dennis some slack. I have been here for awhile, and this isn't the first time this kind of thing has happened.
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Post by SharonArnold on Mar 26, 2015 18:00:51 GMT -5
Thanks, I tend to not put people on ignore unless they are really obnoxious, because I like to hear different peoples stories & wonder how they got to the place that they are. It just amazes me! Also causes me to look back & see some of the places where I once was. People are infinitely interesting. I tend to hold the view that we choose our beliefs (unless very young or very damaged) and that we believe whatever we need to believe at any point in time. I personally don't place a lot of importance on the specifics of a belief, having much more of a "How's that working for ya?" kind of approach. In lieu of that, for purposes of personal pigeon-holing, I look for the fruit of the spirit. I don't tend to mess with other peoples' beliefs much. One of the reasons is that I think we basically believe what we need to believe, when we need to believe it. Another reason is that I personally know someone who would be an out of control alcoholic, except for his born-again-ness. (How could you mess with that?). Yet another reason is that when a person is ready to discard a belief, I think they will find a way. They will also be in a position to deal with the aftermath, which they may not be, if a belief change is forced upon them. For myself, for the most part, I have held beliefs very loosely throughout my life, and have relinquished them relatively easily them when new knowledge and experience has brought new understanding. While I was still a very dedicated 2x2, I got very clear on one thing: if I held a belief that caused love and compassion to fail, then the belief had to go. Beliefs were expendable - love, kindness, and compassion never were. I have not yet discarded this compass.
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Post by snow on Mar 26, 2015 18:47:59 GMT -5
Thanks, I tend to not put people on ignore unless they are really obnoxious, because I like to hear different peoples stories & wonder how they got to the place that they are. It just amazes me! Also causes me to look back & see some of the places where I once was. People are infinitely interesting. I tend to hold the view that we choose our beliefs (unless very young or very damaged) and that we believe whatever we need to believe at any point in time. I personally don't place a lot of importance on the specifics of a belief, having much more of a "How's that working for ya?" kind of approach. In lieu of that, for purposes of personal pigeon-holing, I look for the fruit of the spirit. I don't tend to mess with other peoples' beliefs much. One of the reasons is that I think we basically believe what we need to believe, when we need to believe it. Another reason is that I personally know someone who would be an out of control alcoholic, except for his born-again-ness. (How could you mess with that?). Yet another reason is that when a person is ready to discard a belief, I think they will find a way. They will also be in a position to deal with the aftermath, which they may not be, if a belief change is forced upon them. For myself, for the most part, I have held beliefs very loosely throughout my life, and have relinquished them relatively easily them when new knowledge and experience has brought new understanding. While I was still a very dedicated 2x2, I got very clear on one thing: if I held a belief that caused love and compassion to fail, then the belief had to go. Beliefs were expendable - love, kindness, and compassion never were. I have not yet discarded this compass. Yes, that's how I feel about beliefs, people etc. People believe what they need to at different stages of their lives. To force a belief system on them they are not ready for would do more harm then good and is likely not even possible. They may comply and pay lip service to the belief but never really change it in their minds. The damage that was done to the people of America by the Christians forcing their ways and belief on them is a good example. Many times people live by the morals they understand and to take that away and supposedly replace it with something that might work for us, could end up doing the exact opposite and leave them with nothing to hold on to. I am glad to see many of them going back and learning the spirituality of their culture that was not allowed them for quite some time. The residential schools are an example of the damage that can be done by forcing our beliefs on others.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 26, 2015 19:26:39 GMT -5
People are infinitely interesting. I tend to hold the view that we choose our beliefs (unless very young or very damaged) and that we believe whatever we need to believe at any point in time. I personally don't place a lot of importance on the specifics of a belief, having much more of a "How's that working for ya?" kind of approach. In lieu of that, for purposes of personal pigeon-holing, I look for the fruit of the spirit. I don't tend to mess with other peoples' beliefs much. One of the reasons is that I think we basically believe what we need to believe, when we need to believe it. Another reason is that I personally know someone who would be an out of control alcoholic, except for his born-again-ness. (How could you mess with that?). Yet another reason is that when a person is ready to discard a belief, I think they will find a way. They will also be in a position to deal with the aftermath, which they may not be, if a belief change is forced upon them. For myself, for the most part, I have held beliefs very loosely throughout my life, and have relinquished them relatively easily them when new knowledge and experience has brought new understanding. While I was still a very dedicated 2x2, I got very clear on one thing: if I held a belief that caused love and compassion to fail, then the belief had to go. Beliefs were expendable - love, kindness, and compassion never were. I have not yet discarded this compass. Yes, that's how I feel about beliefs, people etc. People believe what they need to at different stages of their lives. To force a belief system on them they are not ready for would do more harm then good and is likely not even possible. They may comply and pay lip service to the belief but never really change it in their minds. The damage that was done to the people of America by the Christians forcing their ways and belief on them is a good example. Many times people live by the morals they understand and to take that away and supposedly replace it with something that might work for us, could end up doing the exact opposite and leave them with nothing to hold on to. I am glad to see many of them going back and learning the spirituality of their culture that was not allowed them for quite some time. The residential schools are an example of the damage that can be done by forcing our beliefs on others. Snow, a question? What do you mean "residential schools?"
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Post by snow on Mar 26, 2015 20:13:40 GMT -5
Yes, that's how I feel about beliefs, people etc. People believe what they need to at different stages of their lives. To force a belief system on them they are not ready for would do more harm then good and is likely not even possible. They may comply and pay lip service to the belief but never really change it in their minds. The damage that was done to the people of America by the Christians forcing their ways and belief on them is a good example. Many times people live by the morals they understand and to take that away and supposedly replace it with something that might work for us, could end up doing the exact opposite and leave them with nothing to hold on to. I am glad to see many of them going back and learning the spirituality of their culture that was not allowed them for quite some time. The residential schools are an example of the damage that can be done by forcing our beliefs on others. Snow, a question? What do you mean "residential schools?"
In Canada we took our Native population away from their parents when they were school age and put them in residential schools where they were not allowed to speak their language and were punished if they did. They had to learn our culture and nothing of their's was allowed. Many of these schools were run by churches and they were abused a lot of the time. There has been ongoing lawsuits in Canada to financially reimburse them for the abuse they suffered. It was a horrific fiasco. www.cbc.ca/news/canada/a-history-of-residential-schools-in-canada-1.702280
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 27, 2015 1:29:31 GMT -5
Snow, a question? What do you mean "residential schools?"
In Canada we took our Native population away from their parents when they were school age and put them in residential schools where they were not allowed to speak their language and were punished if they did. They had to learn our culture and nothing of their's was allowed. Many of these schools were run by churches and they were abused a lot of the time. There has been ongoing lawsuits in Canada to financially reimburse them for the abuse they suffered. It was a horrific fiasco. www.cbc.ca/news/canada/a-history-of-residential-schools-in-canada-1.702280 Ah, I understand. We did the same in the US. Forced "integration!"
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Post by bubbles on Mar 27, 2015 6:45:37 GMT -5
]Geez you can be so reasonable at times ratz. Almost likeable... Almost?!? If you can measure the size of a drop of morning dew balanced on the end of a nats whisker.. Then of course.
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Post by bubbles on Mar 27, 2015 6:47:56 GMT -5
Dmmich Im tentatively taking you off ignore. Hoping the bridge can be built. Why dont you share some of your experiences? Im interested. Thanks, I tend to not put people on ignore unless they are really obnoxious, because I like to hear different peoples stories & wonder how they got to the place that they are. It just amazes me!
Also causes me to look back & see some of the places where I once was. For example I fell hook, line & sinker for Erich von Däniken works for a long time! I also thought that Immanuel Velikovsky really had a window on what happened in history. I enjoy listening to Eric VD. When he pops up. I hold it all lightly. Never heard of Immanuel.
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Post by bubbles on Mar 27, 2015 6:51:49 GMT -5
I have a Maori friend whose mother was banned from speaking Maori at school. By the time my youngest were at school they were learning Maori in primary school.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2015 7:22:04 GMT -5
Playing devil's advocate here: In Australia we had similiar policies, and we changed them. In the 1970's we took the nuns, teachers, administrators and even the police out of many remote aboriginal communities. We called it "self determination." The result has been the total collapse of most, if not all, of these communities - they have been engulfed in drug abuse, child abuse, petrol sniffing, crime and suicide. Many of the children who were raised in white homes did much better. We don't hear about these former children. Everything is now politics and ideology, and as a result nothing can be done. Our former Prime Minister Howard seized the opportunity to do something about this festering problem after there was an outcry over child abuse. He often said he wanted to help aborigines but the community had ideological reasons for doing nothing.
I believe assimilation is for everyone. The reverse is fragmentation, separation, division etc..
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Post by rational on Mar 27, 2015 8:26:44 GMT -5
If you can measure the size of a drop of morning dew balanced on the end of a nats whisker.. Then of course.;) Better than zero!
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Post by snow on Mar 27, 2015 10:26:30 GMT -5
Playing devil's advocate here: In Australia we had similiar policies, and we changed them. In the 1970's we took the nuns, teachers, administrators and even the police out of many remote aboriginal communities. We called it "self determination." The result has been the total collapse of most, if not all, of these communities - they have been engulfed in drug abuse, child abuse, petrol sniffing, crime and suicide. Many of the children who were raised in white homes did much better. We don't hear about these former children. Everything is now politics and ideology, and as a result nothing can be done. Our former Prime Minister Howard seized the opportunity to do something about this festering problem after there was an outcry over child abuse. He often said he wanted to help aborigines but the community had ideological reasons for doing nothing. I believe assimilation is for everyone. The reverse is fragmentation, separation, division etc.. Well then maybe all the newcomers to Australia, Canada and the US should have done that, assimilated. Why did we come to their country and expect them to change?
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Post by placid-void on Mar 27, 2015 20:42:49 GMT -5
So marie, I am wondering, were the questions you posted in the Opening Post ever answered? Are you comfortable with the response to your questions?
Reading through the thread, it is not clear to me that respondents were actually responding to your questions in many instances. Perhaps we all would benefit from a clearer understanding of your concerns before responding to what we think your concern "ought" to be.
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Post by bubbles on Mar 27, 2015 22:52:07 GMT -5
If you can measure the size of a drop of morning dew balanced on the end of a nats whisker.. Then of course. Better than zero! Ha..look at it like this. If compared to faith being a tiny grain of mustard seed that is supposed to move a mountain. Its generous!!
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 27, 2015 23:59:00 GMT -5
Thanks, I tend to not put people on ignore unless they are really obnoxious, because I like to hear different peoples stories & wonder how they got to the place that they are. It just amazes me!
Also causes me to look back & see some of the places where I once was. For example I fell hook, line & sinker for Erich von Däniken works for a long time! I also thought that Immanuel Velikovsky really had a window on what happened in history. I enjoy listening to Eric VD. When he pops up. I hold it all lightly. Never heard of Immanuel. You are probably too young to have heard of Immanuel Velikovsky!
Immanuel Velikovsky was the author of Worlds in Collision, published in 1950. He tried to compare ancient literary sources like the Old Testament, that they could have actually happened because of electromagnetic effects of near collisions of other planets with the earth.
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Post by bubbles on Mar 28, 2015 3:28:00 GMT -5
I enjoy listening to Eric VD. When he pops up. I hold it all lightly. Never heard of Immanuel. You are probably too young to have heard of Immanuel Velikovsky!
Immanuel Velikovsky was the author of Worlds in Collision, published in 1950. He tried to compare ancient literary sources like the Old Testament, that they could have actually happened because of electromagnetic effects of near collisions of other planets with the earth.
What was your conclusion?
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 28, 2015 4:21:28 GMT -5
You are probably too young to have heard of Immanuel Velikovsky!
Immanuel Velikovsky was the author of Worlds in Collision, published in 1950. He tried to compare ancient literary sources like the Old Testament, that they could have actually happened because of electromagnetic effects of near collisions of other planets with the earth.
What was your conclusion? My conclusion was that I had believed what Velikovsky said because I wanted to believe it.
It reconciled some things in the bible with a supposedly logical explanation about the parting of the Red Sea & the plagues on the Egyptians.
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Post by bubbles on Mar 28, 2015 5:41:26 GMT -5
What was your conclusion? My conclusion was that I had believed what Velikovsky said because I wanted to believe it.
It reconciled some things in the bible with a supposedly logical explanation about the parting of the Red Sea & the plagues on the Egyptians. Instead of them being a miracle. Ok. Thank you. Btw I love the red sea..one of my favourite places on our planet.
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