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Post by bubbles on Mar 6, 2015 0:58:59 GMT -5
To the Unbelievers, Atheists, Agnostics God isn't provable but to us who are believers, God is provable in our own lives, and we KNOW He/they exist because they answers our prayers, helping, watching, protecing us in our daily lives.
God said in Revelation 21:5-8 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and ladymongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
So because you believe in a certain version or interpretation of a God, that gives you the right to say other's interpretation or version of God is wrong? I don't say you are wrong for believing there is a god. I believe it's important for people to have the beliefs they have. The only time I don't like it is if those beliefs are harming someone. Then I have an issue with them. And there you go again, belittling those who do not believe in a God. It's not 'provable' to us because of who we are. Yet when people ask you to show us how it's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to you and others who say it's provable we always get the same answer. You won't share those kinds of things because people might pick them apart. So how are those of us supposed to believe it's provable if no one has the courage to share how it's provable? Snow In answer to the last paragraph. I have shared many things about my life as a believer on TMB. The reason people dont share is because of the labels and judgement of non believers. Ive shared visions /dreams. Answered prayer and other results of friendship with the almighty whom I love and have served through my lifetime. As a result of being open Ive worn some very hurtful comments by people on here who I had the highest respect for. (Im a people person and love people) Involving yourself in open dialogue on this sensitive subject ( because it is dear and close to you) can result in abject pain. Words are powerful No body wants to hear they are delusional/ schizophrenic/ physcotic. Etc etc Especially when they have not ever been diagnosed with that. It is quiet disgusting the way we are slammed for believing. Ive been told on here by people who dont know me. You were never in the ministry. It didnt happen. I was in different types of ministry for many yrs. Ive also been told I never recieved any healing. These people are liars. Ive also been told that prayers are not answered even after giving a number of accounts of answered prayer in my own life and others lives. Because we dont publish in the media it doesnt mean it doesnt happen. I can prove somethings but that would take a lot of effort contacting people I havent spoken too for some time. Im reluctant to ask family on here they wouldnt be believed. In fact they would ask me why do you even bother with that site. I could ask J but why should I bother going to those lengths. My advice to any christians is keep mum on the subject. Its just not worth the aggro
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 6, 2015 2:08:39 GMT -5
So because you believe in a certain version or interpretation of a God, that gives you the right to say other's interpretation or version of God is wrong? I don't say you are wrong for believing there is a god. I believe it's important for people to have the beliefs they have. The only time I don't like it is if those beliefs are harming someone. Then I have an issue with them. And there you go again, belittling those who do not believe in a God. It's not 'provable' to us because of who we are. Yet when people ask you to show us how it's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to you and others who say it's provable we always get the same answer. You won't share those kinds of things because people might pick them apart. So how are those of us supposed to believe it's provable if no one has the courage to share how it's provable? Snow In answer to the last paragraph. I have shared many things about my life as a believer on TMB. The reason people dont share is because of the labels and judgement of non believers. Ive shared visions /dreams. Answered prayer and other results of friendship with the almighty whom I love and have served through my lifetime. As a result of being open Ive worn some very hurtful comments by people on here who I had the highest respect for. ( Im a people person and love people) Involving yourself in open dialogue on this sensitive subject ( because it is dear and close to you) can result in abject pain. Words are powerful No body wants to hear they are delusional/ schizophrenic/ physcotic. Etc etc Especially when they have not ever been diagnosed with that. It is quiet disgusting the way we are slammed for believing. Ive been told on here by people who dont know me. You were never in the ministry. It didnt happen. I was in different types of ministry for many yrs. Ive also been told I never recieved any healing. These people are liars. Ive also been told that prayers are not answered even after giving a number of accounts of answered prayer in my own life and others lives. Because we dont publish in the media it doesnt mean it doesnt happen. I can prove somethings but that would take a lot of effort contacting people I havent spoken too for some time. Im reluctant to ask family on here they wouldnt be believed. In fact they would ask me why do you even bother with that site. I could ask J but why should I bother going to those lengths. My advice to any christians is keep mum on the subject. Its just not worth the aggro Bubbles, Do you think that are none of us here who also "love people?"
Do you think that we who are non-believers haven't also received some not very nice comments?
Has anyone here actually ever called you "delusional, schizophrenic or psychotic ? "
I share my own story because it was a very illuminating, important time of my life.
Some will understand it & will also understand how I came to that conclusion.
For me, that is what is the important part of participating on this board.
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Post by maryhig on Mar 6, 2015 2:56:18 GMT -5
But we also have to be careful what we say about God. It's not right to mock him either! Why would god care what anyone said about him/her? Poor self esteem? Fragile ego? But you are right about the mocking. Remember the children who mocked god indirectly when they called his/her mouthpiece bald? Destroyed by bears! No one wants that. Well, not most people. I'm really taken back by this! What a brilliant explanation! The Bible is full of deeper meanings. Having hair(like Solomon) is a picture of having wisdom and understanding. So when you say someone is bald, your saying that what they have received isn't from God and they don't have wisdom of any kind! I don't know if that's what you meant by this Rational? Something tells me I'm going to be jumped on by everyone again, but anyway there it is. And i don't mean I'm all wise and clever because I'm not! But sometimes God opens your eyes to what is written. When Peter cut the ear off the man in the garden Jesus put it back on. This is like when someone is taught wrong or too harshly, like many of you say you have been. It cuts off your spiritual ear, and you don't want to hear anymore. But when someone comes with the living spirit in the heart and presents the living Jesus, it makes you want to listen again And opens your inner ear! And these people can do this because they aren't just being taught by just the book, but also the author! I won't be posting much, but as usual I couldn't keep my mouth shut! :-p now back off to hibernation lol :-) Mary
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 6, 2015 4:31:47 GMT -5
Why would god care what anyone said about him/her? Poor self esteem? Fragile ego? But you are right about the mocking. Remember the children who mocked god indirectly when they called his/her mouthpiece bald? Destroyed by bears! No one wants that. Well, not most people. I'm really taken back by this! What a brilliant explanation! The Bible is full of deeper meanings. Having hair(like Solomon) is a picture of having wisdom and understanding. So when you say someone is bald, your saying that what they have received isn't from God and they don't have wisdom of any kind! I don't know if that's what you meant by this Rational? Something tells me I'm going to be jumped on by everyone again, but anyway there it is. And i don't mean I'm all wise and clever because I'm not! But sometimes God opens your eyes to what is written. When Peter cut the ear off the man in the garden Jesus put it back on. This is like when someone is taught wrong or too harshly, like many of you say you have been. It cuts off your spiritual ear, and you don't want to hear anymore. But when someone comes with the living spirit in the heart and presents the living Jesus, it makes you want to listen again And opens your inner ear! And these people can do this because they aren't just being taught by just the book, but also the author! I won't be posting much, but as usual I couldn't keep my mouth shut! :-p now back off to hibernation lol :-) Mary No one is going to "jump on you," maryhig.
I believe rational was referring to (2 Kings 2), where a group of young children mock Elijah for his bald head.
Elijah curses them and God sends two angry bears to rip them to pieces.
Forty two children are killed by God because they made fun of Elijah's bald head. 2 Kings 2:23 "And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head."
2:24 "And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them." I guess one "would be taken back" by these verses from the II Kings if they didn't know that was in the bible. But I thought surely you would have known about them.
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Post by maryhig on Mar 6, 2015 4:52:26 GMT -5
I'm really taken back by this! What a brilliant explanation! The Bible is full of deeper meanings. Having hair(like Solomon) is a picture of having wisdom and understanding. So when you say someone is bald, your saying that what they have received isn't from God and they don't have wisdom of any kind! I don't know if that's what you meant by this Rational? Something tells me I'm going to be jumped on by everyone again, but anyway there it is. And i don't mean I'm all wise and clever because I'm not! But sometimes God opens your eyes to what is written. When Peter cut the ear off the man in the garden Jesus put it back on. This is like when someone is taught wrong or too harshly, like many of you say you have been. It cuts off your spiritual ear, and you don't want to hear anymore. But when someone comes with the living spirit in the heart and presents the living Jesus, it makes you want to listen again And opens your inner ear! And these people can do this because they aren't just being taught by just the book, but also the author! I won't be posting much, but as usual I couldn't keep my mouth shut! :-p now back off to hibernation lol :-) Mary No one is going to "jump on you," maryhig.
I believe rational was referring to (2 Kings 2), where a group of young children mock Elijah for his bald head.
Elijah curses them and God sends two angry bears to rip them to pieces.
Forty two children are killed by God because they made fun of Elijah's bald head. 2 Kings 2:23 "And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head."
2:24 "And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them." I guess one "would be taken back" by these verses from the II Kings if they didn't know that was in the bible. But I thought surely you would have known about them.
Yes I know which passage from the Bible he meant, the bible also had deeper meanings., and yes to your question. My uncle heard from Edward not William Irvine, we are in in Wales and Ireland. But even though he brought it to us, I refer back to Jesus and the Bible! A man can only bring God to you. Not you to God. Thanks for letting me know what rational meant though.
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Post by Mary on Mar 6, 2015 7:45:24 GMT -5
Hi MARYHIG
Have you read the book The Life and Ministry of Edward Cooney by Patricia Roberts. She belonged to your fellowship in Ireland I went to one of your meetings in Ireland in her home.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 8:33:22 GMT -5
MaryH some one gave me a small framed gift. Several years ago, I don't know the origin of if, that is not very important to me, but the words are, and I treasure them.Here is what is written in that framed gift hanging on a wall in my home: ******************************************************** God grant me the Senerity to accept , the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and Wisdom to know the difference. ********************************************************* So my advice is, try to be wise with Heavenly as well as Earthly wisdom. Know when to throw in the towel and give up because it appears that you are fighting a losing battle with the odds against you, outnumbered; well, on this forum, anyway, it seems to me. Ps. Don't let the devil or anybody steal your joy and your peace of mind. Stay with what you are comfortable with in your comfort Zone, follow your heart/conscience. The devil has many clever devices with which to lead the weak and vulnerable astray. There is a very old saying in my part of the world which goes like this: " those who advise you and influence you to buy a big belly horse, do not stick around to help you feed it." You are burdened with it. just some thoughts, musings of an old fool.
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Post by maryhig on Mar 6, 2015 9:44:17 GMT -5
Hi MARYHIG Have you read the book The Life and Ministry of Edward Cooney by Patricia Roberts. She belonged to your fellowship in Ireland I went to one of your meetings in Ireland in her home. Hiya Mary, I will look on Amazon thank you :-)
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Post by maryhig on Mar 6, 2015 9:46:55 GMT -5
MaryH some one gave me a small framed gift. Several years ago, I don't know the origin of if, that is not very important to me, but the words are, and I treasure them.Here is what is written in that framed gift hanging on a wall in my home: ******************************************************** God grant me the Senerity to accept , the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and Wisdom to know the difference. ********************************************************* So my advice is, try to be wise with Heavenly as well as Earthly wisdom. Know when to throw in the towel and give up because it appears that you are fighting a losing battle with the odds against you, outnumbered; well, on this forum, anyway, it seems to me. Ps. Don't let the devil or anybody steal your joy and your peace of mind. Stay with what you are comfortable with in your comfort Zone, follow your heart/conscience. The devil has many clever devices with which to lead the weak and vulnerable astray. There is a very old saying in my part of the world which goes like this: " those who advise you and influence you to buy a big belly horse, do not stick around to help you feed it." You are burdened with it. just some thoughts, musings of an old fool. Partaker You have given me words of wisdom before and I will take in what you have written. Thank you :-)
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Post by rational on Mar 6, 2015 10:32:20 GMT -5
I'm really taken back by this! What a brilliant explanation! The Bible is full of deeper meanings. Having hair(like Solomon) is a picture of having wisdom and understanding. So when you say someone is bald, your saying that what they have received isn't from God and they don't have wisdom of any kind! So if children say something like this it is OK to kill them? Sometimes just thinking about thinks in a different way brings new understanding. Do you find it odd that in all of recorded history there never has been a case where an amputated limb has been restored? Well, except for a single ear. There are thousands of healing claims but not one that claims a restored limb. See you in the spring!
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Post by maryhig on Mar 6, 2015 11:13:36 GMT -5
I'm really taken back by this! What a brilliant explanation! The Bible is full of deeper meanings. Having hair(like Solomon) is a picture of having wisdom and understanding. So when you say someone is bald, your saying that what they have received isn't from God and they don't have wisdom of any kind! So if children say something like this it is OK to kill them? Sometimes just thinking about thinks in a different way brings new understanding. Do you find it odd that in all of recorded history there never has been a case where an amputated limb has been restored? Well, except for a single ear. There are thousands of healing claims but not one that claims a restored limb. See you in the spring! Rational we are all Gods children, as i said the Bible has deeper meanings!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 13:34:56 GMT -5
MaryH some one gave me a small framed gift. Several years ago, I don't know the origin of if, that is not very important to me, but the words are, and I treasure them.Here is what is written in that framed gift hanging on a wall in my home: ******************************************************** God grant me the Senerity to accept , the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and Wisdom to know the difference. ********************************************************* So my advice is, try to be wise with Heavenly as well as Earthly wisdom. Know when to throw in the towel and give up because it appears that you are fighting a losing battle with the odds against you, outnumbered; well, on this forum, anyway, it seems to me. Ps. Don't let the devil or anybody steal your joy and your peace of mind. Stay with what you are comfortable with in your comfort Zone, follow your heart/conscience. The devil has many clever devices with which to lead the weak and vulnerable astray. There is a very old saying in my part of the world which goes like this: " those who advise you and influence you to buy a big belly horse, do not stick around to help you feed it." You are burdened with it. just some thoughts, musings of an old fool. Partaker You have given me words of wisdom before and I will take in what you have written. Thank you :-) You are welcome, no problem. My " words of wisdom" probably don't count for much anyway, a read of Ecclisiastes 9: 16 might help to explain the reason for that.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 6, 2015 15:01:42 GMT -5
Partaker You have given me words of wisdom before and I will take in what you have written. Thank you :-) You are welcome, no problem. My " words of wisdom" probably don't count for much anyway, a read of Ecclisiastes 9: 16 might help to explain the reason for that. MaryH some one gave me a small framed gift. Several years ago, I don't know the origin of if, that is not very important to me, but the words are, and I treasure them.Here is what is written in that framed gift hanging on a wall in my home: ******************************************************** God grant me the Senerity to accept , the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and Wisdom to know the difference. ********************************************************* So my advice is, try to be wise with Heavenly as well as Earthly wisdom. Know when to throw in the towel and give up because it appears that you are fighting a losing battle with the odds against you, outnumbered; well, on this forum, anyway, it seems to me. Ps. Don't let the devil or anybody steal your joy and your peace of mind. Stay with what you are comfortable with in your comfort Zone, follow your heart/conscience. The devil has many clever devices with which to lead the weak and vulnerable astray. There is a very old saying in my part of the world which goes like this: " those who advise you and influence you to buy a big belly horse, do not stick around to help you feed it." You are burdened with it. just some thoughts, musings of an old fool. God grant me the serenity To accept the things I cannot change; Courage to change the things I can; And wisdom to know the difference
St. Francis of Assisi
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 15:36:11 GMT -5
You are welcome, no problem. My " words of wisdom" probably don't count for much anyway, a read of Ecclisiastes 9: 16 might help to explain the reason for that. MaryH some one gave me a small framed gift. Several years ago, I don't know the origin of if, that is not very important to me, but the words are, and I treasure them.Here is what is written in that framed gift hanging on a wall in my home: ******************************************************** God grant me the Senerity to accept , the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and Wisdom to know the difference. ********************************************************* So my advice is, try to be wise with Heavenly as well as Earthly wisdom. Know when to throw in the towel and give up because it appears that you are fighting a losing battle with the odds against you, outnumbered; well, on this forum, anyway, it seems to me. Ps. Don't let the devil or anybody steal your joy and your peace of mind. Stay with what you are comfortable with in your comfort Zone, follow your heart/conscience. The devil has many clever devices with which to lead the weak and vulnerable astray. There is a very old saying in my part of the world which goes like this: " those who advise you and influence you to buy a big belly horse, do not stick around to help you feed it." You are burdened with it. just some thoughts, musings of an old fool. God grant me the serenity To accept the things I cannot change; Courage to change the things I can; And wisdom to know the difference
St. Francis of AssisiThanks, I had no idea.
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Post by rational on Mar 6, 2015 15:45:36 GMT -5
Rational we are all Gods children,... I reject that claim unless you have something to substantiate your claim!I have noticed that the 'deeper' meanings come out when the plain text does not support the believer's claim. God sent a bear to kill a lot of children because they poked fun at an old man. A lesson in childcare? An expression of love? It somehow seems like an over-reaction to the situation. Imagine if police shot children for calling names?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 16:32:02 GMT -5
Yes, that's a harsh story. If the bible said God protects all children, regardless, then it would be an anomaly. But the bible doesn't say that...
Rev 2 "Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds"
Luke 23 But Jesus turning to them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed"
Luke 19 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation"
God is clearly a child killer
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 16:39:52 GMT -5
Why does man want to prove that there is a god, any god?
To explain where man came from. to explain why things happen, to have a measure of comfort in this world of suffering, to establish a final reward and punishment for the doings of man. Yep, and to justify and maintain faith and religious belief as proclaimed in the scriptures.
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Post by snow on Mar 6, 2015 17:06:15 GMT -5
All I know is the book sure seems to need a lot of apologists.
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Post by snow on Mar 6, 2015 18:02:05 GMT -5
Nathan, so we agree? In order to make the OT God into a nice guy the guy needs a lot of apologists? But I think you recognize the OT God as not so nice needing no apology for not being nice, is that right?
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Post by snow on Mar 6, 2015 18:40:47 GMT -5
Maryhig, I find it very interesting to hear you explain what you believe because it sounds like you are following one of the other founding fathers Edward Cooney. It's interesting to see what he taught and what the 2x2's taught and the similarities but also the differences. I hope you stay with us. Don't be bothered by people and their questions. You are very welcome here.
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Post by Greg on Mar 6, 2015 18:50:13 GMT -5
Maryhig, I find it very interesting to hear you explain what you believe because it sounds like you are following one of the other founding fathers Edward Cooney. It's interesting to see what he taught and what the 2x2's taught and the similarities but also the differences. I hope you stay with us. Don't be bothered by people and their questions. You are very welcome here. If she is following someone who was with Irvine and Co, would she just say so?
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Post by Mary on Mar 6, 2015 20:20:43 GMT -5
She does seem to be saying that she is part of the fellowship that resulted from Edward Cooney's preaching. The teachings are the same and they have meetings in Wales and Ireland. She knows of Edward Cooney and Fred Wood. She also says she know William Irvine started their fellowship. She also wrote re Edward Cooney:
: My uncle heard from Edward not William Irvine, we are in in Wales and Ireland. But even though he brought it to us, I refer back to Jesus and the Bible! A man can only bring God to you. Not you to God.
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Post by snow on Mar 6, 2015 21:36:05 GMT -5
Maryhig, I find it very interesting to hear you explain what you believe because it sounds like you are following one of the other founding fathers Edward Cooney. It's interesting to see what he taught and what the 2x2's taught and the similarities but also the differences. I hope you stay with us. Don't be bothered by people and their questions. You are very welcome here. If she is following someone who was with Irvine and Co, would she just say so? I'm not sure her group is a part of Coonyites, but possibly got some of what they believe from him. She states her uncle knew him so it's possible. I think it's interesting. As far as her 'just saying so', that's a question for her, not me.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 6, 2015 22:35:20 GMT -5
If she is following someone who was with Irvine and Co, would she just say so? Maybe for the same reason that many of the 2x2's in the past who were professing wouldn't have said that they were followers of Irvine, perhaps they did not know it.
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Post by rational on Mar 7, 2015 0:11:24 GMT -5
Rational, you are always trying to find a 'deeper' meaning to things. A deeper, deeper meaning would be to teach children to respect their elders. I am not trying to find a deeper meaning at all. Children made fun of one of god's friends and god sent two bears that ripped the children to pieces. That is the story. It is you, I believe, that is trying to find a deeper meaning to make a story of the mass execution of 42 children for calling someone names into something positive. Is that story in any way an appropriate tool for teaching children? Would that be a story you would use to teach your children to respect their elders? Do you think that story would lead children to respect their elders? This feels like a lesson of 'might makes right'. I see bullies in the making.
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Post by rational on Mar 7, 2015 0:21:09 GMT -5
Yes, that's a harsh story. If the bible said God protects all children, regardless, then it would be an anomaly. But the bible doesn't say that... Rev 2 "Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds"Luke 23 But Jesus turning to them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed"Luke 19 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation"God is clearly a child killerI doubt that was the intended reason for the story. God is no more or less of a child killer than the people who wrote the text. Folk stories are full of killers and unsavory people. Of course, most do not claim that the text was written by an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being that created the universe and loves his/her creations! Or is that where the expression "I love you to death." comes from?
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Post by rational on Mar 7, 2015 0:30:44 GMT -5
~~ No, God can defend Himself just like in the case of Job. There is no defense. God allowed the slaughter of many people to prove a point to satan. Makes as much sense as John Hinckley's attempted assassination to try to impress Jodie Foster.
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Post by rational on Mar 7, 2015 1:12:23 GMT -5
There is no defense. God allowed the slaughter of many people to prove a point to satan. Makes as much sense as John Hinckley's attempted assassination to try to impress Jodie Foster. Many of the children God killed were NOT His but the children of Satan seed. They seek to destroy His chosen ones.Which of the 42 children mentioned were "satan seed"? Was it little Rajih? Or perhaps Mandhur? Or that adorable little towheaded Imtiyaz? No matter. Is it ever right to kill children as a punishment?
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