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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 10:25:26 GMT -5
Is "eastern" meditation compatible with Christianity? I've always appreciated it. For calming oneself. For enduring or being able to cope with all sorts of stresses. Physical, mental, spiritual. But it always has the taint of "another power" other than God. So, it might be looked upon as potentially dangerous.
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Post by placid-void on Feb 27, 2015 12:20:37 GMT -5
Ettu, may I throw in my two cents worth? I am not a religious person in the strict sense of the word so my response may not be very meaningful to you.
I am familiar, however, with the enjoyment of "eastern" meditation and I agree with you, it does seem to have an impact on me physically, mentally and spiritually as well.
One possible consideration from a "Christian" point of view would be to ask "where is that 'still small voice', where might one find the 'holy spirit' ". It has always seemed to me that those forces that move us at a fundamental level are deep within ourselves. If this were to be true, it has always made sense to me that access might best be achieved through a quiet mind and body. It that were true then meditation would be a tremendously useful tool to have available for those times we might want to reach beyond the routines that surround us.
Just some thoughts.
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Post by snow on Feb 27, 2015 12:47:27 GMT -5
There are so many benefits with meditation that I doubt it could be a problem for Christians. It can help with so many things. Anything that takes us deeper into understanding is probably a good thing. But mostly what it does is calm and center a person so that when they go out into the world they are able to do so with a deeper sense of peace. That peace usually effects how we 'walk through this world' and I find it usually means that I am kinder and more compassionate. Surely those things are in line with Christianity?
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Post by bubbles on Feb 27, 2015 15:34:31 GMT -5
Is "eastern" meditation compatible with Christianity? I've always appreciated it. For calming oneself. For enduring or being able to cope with all sorts of stresses. Physical, mental, spiritual. But it always has the taint of "another power" other than God. So, it might be looked upon as potentially dangerous. Is meditation ok? My short answer is if it benefits you in a good positive way yes it is. Is eastern meditation compatible with christianity? This is the can of worms. It is a huge topic. As a young person in meetings i went to yoga with a friend for a while. The teacher put me into instant calming sleep at the end of the session. Those few minutes of incredible relaxation was amasing and did wonder. I stopped going because I 'heard' it was against what christians believed. In those days I was a follwer and to stop me all it took were a few negative comments. Taint of another power? Heres where it gets interesting. Buddist meditate. They also fast. Christians pray. Some also fast. History tells us that in each Age the god of that Age had similar characteristics to the ones who had gone before. While I was in meetings I dont recall ever praying for longer than less than 5 mins possibly only 2min. After leaving meetings not attending anywhere for 3yrs. I was then lead to 3 different churches (over a 14yr period)and have visited many many through my life journey. One day I was baptised in the holy spirit. From that day my life changed. I wanted to 'hear from god' I became empassioned to 'find him in the secret place.' I read up a lot of scriptures about it but I had this driving thirst to know him more intimately as a friend. So I set my face like flint. I began to fast one morning a week to pray and try to find him. For the first yr. Doing this a lot happened which I wont go into. Finding him where he may be found in the secret place. Where he dwells. Some of the results of this that are similar to you were:- after the time in my room ( anything from 1 - 4hrs) I would physically feel weightless for a while. Incredibly relaxed. Calm. Peaceful. Tranquil. Zero stress. Completely refreshed. The results of meditation. I do think that in that place there is healing deliverance and benefits 8 probably havent verbalised. This is the reason today I can accept that 'other religions who meditate' have similar benefits. In church we were taught that it was demonic. ie: witches meditating and chanting to call up evil spirits. The problem is they throw the baby out with the bath water. Any tainting of meditation could only be if it was drawing spiritual powers into your being. Thats not what you have said so if it brings you good results how can it be bad for you. Ive had friends who would fast 40 days once a yr.
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Post by emy on Feb 27, 2015 17:55:40 GMT -5
For ettu: 1 Tim. 4
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 20:44:00 GMT -5
Yknot, thanks, I appreciate your response because it suggests a reasonable pathway of melding the faiths, expanding a traditional concept of what prayer can be. Personally, I think every Christian who prays much discovers aspects of meditation by accident anyhow. Falling asleep during prayer, is perhaps one aspect of peace! Snow, I'd have to agree, simply taking meditation pragmatically, as a useful tool available to use, just simply turns out to work. Thanks for sharing a part of your journey bubbles. Very much appreciated. I think we all regret we can't go down all the paths we wish we had the lifetimes to explore, but one of the neat things is that we can explore them in the journeys of our friends. I'm glad I've kept in touch with friends who've explored paths I've wondered about. Thanks for your suggestion emy, I looked up 1st Tim. 4, and enjoyed reading Paul's notes again. Ettu
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Post by Gene on Feb 27, 2015 21:25:15 GMT -5
Recently a question was raised to us about the value of "meditation" and whether a child of God should have any concerns about entering in to such a practice. We have given this careful, prayerful thought, and we feel moved to write these few words in the spirit of care and concern for the flock.
While we recognize the value of seeking professional care for the wide variety of both physical and emotional difficulties that we all face from time to time, we feel concerned about crossing that line from professional medical practices to anything that would give the appearance of entering into some kind of spiritual realm that is outside of that which we have proven to be within the will of God.
For that reason, we would urge those who are considering some kind of "meditation" to ask themselves these questions:
1) Am I seeking to accomplish something through "meditation" that would better be accomplished through spending time on my knees, in prayer to our Father? 2) Does "meditation" rob me of time that would better be spent in communion with my Heavenly Father? 3) Does "meditation" draw me nearer in fellowship with my brothers and sisters in Christ, or does it rise up as a cause for concern?
We know that the history of many of these "meditation" practices is found in some of the eastern religions, of which we have no part as children of God. For this reason, we have great concerns about any among us who would entertain any type of "meditation" that finds its origin in these practices.
We hope these few words will provide some guidance for those who are troubled in mind with these issues. These are but a few of those things which are they that are most important to those that are of that which is of He who is the source of all that is within that which is eternal.
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Post by placid-void on Feb 27, 2015 21:32:00 GMT -5
Recently a question was raised to us about the value of "meditation" and whether a child of God should have any concerns about entering in to such a practice. We have given this careful, prayerful thought, and we feel moved to write these few words in the spirit of care and concern for the flock. One of the unfortunate consequences of asking questions, is getting answers.
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Post by Gene on Feb 27, 2015 21:34:12 GMT -5
Recently a question was raised to us about the value of "meditation" and whether a child of God should have any concerns about entering in to such a practice. We have given this careful, prayerful thought, and we feel moved to write these few words in the spirit of care and concern for the flock. One of the unfortunate consequences of asking questions, is getting answers. That's for sure!
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Post by SharonArnold on Feb 28, 2015 13:02:01 GMT -5
I think it is quite normal to be suspicious over things that you don’t know much about. It might be difficult to find consensus on what a meditative state of mind encompasses, but I see it fairly simply. I don’t intellectualize this too much.
I don’t think that there is anything weird, magical or in the least bit unusual about “meditation”. I think that most people slip into some kind of meditative state dozens and dozens of times a day, where thought processes slow down. (IMO, thinking can drive you crazy, most particularly if you are inclined to believe all the thoughts you think! There is a lot of merit in being able to exercise a degree of conscious control over your thinking processes.)
The simplest explanation that I have found for the objective of meditation is in Hindu Philosophy, with the concept of turiya. There are three common states of consciousness that I think most people would agree on: 1) Waking Consciousness 2) Dreaming 3) Dreamless Sleep
Turiya is a 4th state of consciousness (some people argue that it really isn’t a “state”) which is the background that underlies and transcends the other three common states of consciousness. The experience of pure consciousness, if you will.
No matter what your background or philosophy, or the specific technique you practice or don’t practice, I think as you drift towards a meditative state, you simply have fewer and fewer thoughts. In doing this, you give yourself the opportunity to experience the “something” or the “nothing” that lies between thoughts. This tends to have an intensely calming and grounding effect on most people. It can even, almost paradoxically, create enough mind space that you can actually have the best thoughts!
In a 2X2 world, opportunities for this would specifically be presented during times of prayer, singing hymns or (my favorite) the quiet time before meeting. In a more secular world, opportunities for this might present at watching a sunset, the night sky, or particularly noticing the look of wonder on the face of a much-loved grandchild.
My mother, a sincere 2X2 lady, used to talk a lot about meditating, even in her meeting testimonies. I think she used the term to refer to a time of reflection, in the sense of Psalms 19:14 “Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.”
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Post by placid-void on Feb 28, 2015 14:59:35 GMT -5
I think it is quite normal to be suspicious over things that you don’t know much about. It might be difficult to find consensus on what a meditative state of mind encompasses, but I see it fairly simply. I don’t intellectualize this too much. I don’t think that there is anything weird, magical or in the least bit unusual about “meditation”. I think that most people slip into some kind of meditative state dozens and dozens of times a day, where thought processes slow down. (IMO, thinking can drive you crazy, most particularly if you are inclined to believe all the thoughts you think! There is a lot of merit in being able to exercise a degree of conscious control over your thinking processes.) The simplest explanation that I have found for the objective of meditation is in Hindu Philosophy, with the concept of turiya. There are three common states of consciousness that I think most people would agree on: 1) Waking Consciousness 2) Dreaming 3) Dreamless Sleep Turiya is a 4th state of consciousness (some people argue that it really isn’t a “state”) which is the background that underlies and transcends the other three common states of consciousness. The experience of pure consciousness, if you will. No matter what your background or philosophy, or the specific technique you practice or don’t practice, I think as you drift towards a meditative state, you simply have fewer and fewer thoughts. In doing this, you give yourself the opportunity to experience the “something” or the “nothing” that lies between thoughts. This tends to have an intensely calming and grounding effect on most people. It can even, almost paradoxically, create enough mind space that you can actually have the best thoughts! In a 2X2 world, opportunities for this would specifically be presented during times of prayer, singing hymns or (my favorite) the quiet time before meeting. In a more secular world, opportunities for this might present at watching a sunset, the night sky, or particularly noticing the look of wonder on the face of a much-loved grandchild. My mother, a sincere 2X2 lady, used to talk a lot about meditating, even in her meeting testimonies. I think she used the term to refer to a time of reflection, in the sense of Psalms 19:14 “Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.” Beautifully expressed.
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Post by bubbles on Feb 28, 2015 16:14:41 GMT -5
I havent done a study on day dreaming. I am a day dreamer since a tot. It doesnt happen as frequently as it used to. eg: in school I would look out the window. My mind would completely relax into a very comfortable space. People would sometimes touch me or call me out of it. A few yrs ago I had a friend who was a psychologist. He told me please dont interupt me when my eyes look far away. Wait until I am back with you. He was referring to daydreaming. He said that something beautiful happens in your mind. Cleaning your mind? I noticed one of my sons my grandson and a few of my many neices and nephews are also.
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Sky
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7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
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Post by Sky on Feb 28, 2015 16:39:52 GMT -5
Ettu, may I throw in my two cents worth? I am not a religious person in the strict sense of the word so my response may not be very meaningful to you. I am familiar, however, with the enjoyment of "eastern" meditation and I agree with you, it does seem to have an impact on me physically, mentally and spiritually as well. One possible consideration from a "Christian" point of view would be to ask "where is that 'still small voice', where might one find the 'holy spirit' ". It has always seemed to me that those forces that move us at a fundamental level are deep within ourselves. If this were to be true, it has always made sense to me that access might best be achieved through a quiet mind and body. It that were true then meditation would be a tremendously useful tool to have available for those times we might want to reach beyond the routines that surround us. Just some thoughts. My Thoughts: 1. The Bible makes it clear that we avoid the "Trance" state. 2. Meditation involving repeating a word puts us in a trance. Not Good 3. I have seen a lot of people in a trance at 2x2 conventions. 4. Many video gamers live their lives in a trance like state. And so on and so forth... Its not a good thing!
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Post by bubbles on Feb 28, 2015 18:15:24 GMT -5
Sky Would you say John was in a trance like state when he was on Patmos?
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Post by snow on Feb 28, 2015 18:20:29 GMT -5
Ettu, may I throw in my two cents worth? I am not a religious person in the strict sense of the word so my response may not be very meaningful to you. I am familiar, however, with the enjoyment of "eastern" meditation and I agree with you, it does seem to have an impact on me physically, mentally and spiritually as well. One possible consideration from a "Christian" point of view would be to ask "where is that 'still small voice', where might one find the 'holy spirit' ". It has always seemed to me that those forces that move us at a fundamental level are deep within ourselves. If this were to be true, it has always made sense to me that access might best be achieved through a quiet mind and body. It that were true then meditation would be a tremendously useful tool to have available for those times we might want to reach beyond the routines that surround us. Just some thoughts. My Thoughts: 1. The Bible makes it clear that we avoid the "Trance" state. 2. Meditation involving repeating a word puts us in a trance. Not Good 3. I have seen a lot of people in a trance at 2x2 conventions. 4. Many video gamers live their lives in a trance like state. And so on and so forth... Its not a good thing! Have you ever meditated? Do you know the difference in how a 'trance' might feel over a deeply meditative state? Being focused on something like a video game is not a 'trance' for example. Meditation gives us a better ability to focus actually, which can be a good skill to have in life. Meditation gives one the ability to connect with a deeper state of awareness. In terms of religious beliefs, many say it helps them to connect deeper with God. In many ways prayer is just another name for meditation when it is done for any length of time. I believe the bible also says to 'get quiet' does it not? That is all prayer and meditation really are. A quieting of the mind. Most meditation does not involve a mantra (repeating of a word or phrase). All a word or mantra really does though is help the meditater to focus or go deeper while quieting the mind.
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Post by SharonArnold on Feb 28, 2015 18:51:14 GMT -5
My Thoughts: 1. The Bible makes it clear that we avoid the "Trance" state. 2. Meditation involving repeating a word puts us in a trance. Not Good 3. I have seen a lot of people in a trance at 2x2 conventions. 4. Many video gamers live their lives in a trance like state. And so on and so forth... Its not a good thing! Have you ever meditated? Do you know the difference in how a 'trance' might feel over a deeply meditative state? Being focused on something like a video game is not a 'trance' for example. Meditation gives us a better ability to focus actually, which can be a good skill to have in life. Meditation gives one the ability to connect with a deeper state of awareness. In terms of religious beliefs, many say it helps them to connect deeper with God. In many ways prayer is just another name for meditation when it is done for any length of time. I believe the bible also says to 'get quiet' does it not? That is all prayer and meditation really are. A quieting of the mind. Most meditation does not involve a mantra (repeating of a word or phrase). All a word or mantra really does though is help the meditater to focus or go deeper while quieting the mind. Psalm 46:10 "Be still, and know that I am God."
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Sky
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7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Posts: 67
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Post by Sky on Feb 28, 2015 19:49:34 GMT -5
Sky Would you say John was in a trance like state when he was on Patmos? I guess your trance could be different to my trance. John had a full blown "Lucid Dream" I don't think he was in a self induced, mantra induced trance. Do you know the Bible warns us about repeating rhythmic phrases? I think its to avoid putting ourselves into "altered states" (like babies playing with razor blades, we do not know or see the danger) My experience with that small voice does comes from listing to the conscious trying to connect to subconscious. The obstacles are things the devil uses to keep us from the Truth(Jesus) and all its glory. Spiritually is how we connect to God ! Our Faith in him is rewarded ! My words are primitive tools I use crudely. smack boooingggg bangy thwack Its like a Batman TV show Bazinga
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 20:05:39 GMT -5
Sometimes we say, "take a few deep breaths..." Imo, that is sort of like the low end of, or one might even say the entry level of meditation. It's safe and effective. Just stopping and noticing your breathing without doing anything else is effective. and it usually involuntarily leads to a couple of wonderful deep breaths. I think we're still in the safe and effective area. Telling someone to take a time out, without giving or teaching them the above. May not be as safe, or nearly as effective. imo
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Post by snow on Feb 28, 2015 21:19:26 GMT -5
Another thing that I have found with regulating breathe, I can reduce pain levels. I tend to hold my breathe when in high levels of pain instead of breathing through it. Makes a difference when I remember to do that. Meditation also helps release tightness in my muscles which also makes pain levels higher, so physically, mentally I find meditation is a tremendous tool.
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Post by bubbles on Feb 28, 2015 21:44:05 GMT -5
Sky Would you say John was in a trance like state when he was on Patmos? I guess your trance could be different to my trance. John had a full blown "Lucid Dream" I don't think he was in a self induced, mantra induced trance. Do you know the Bible warns us about repeating rhythmic phrases? I think its to avoid putting ourselves into "altered states" (like babies playing with razor blades, we do not know or see the danger) My experience with that small voice does comes from listing to the conscious trying to connect to subconscious. The obstacles are things the devil uses to keep us from the Truth(Jesus) and all its glory. Spiritually is how we connect to God ! Our Faith in him is rewarded ! My words are primitive tools I use crudely. smack boooingggg bangy thwack Its like a Batman TV show Bazinga I would have thought Johns was an open vision. I could be wrong. The difference between a dream and a vision is that with a dream, your conscious mind is out of the way. Rythymic phrases like chants? I dont chant. Do you chant? How do you deal with devilish stuff?
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 1, 2015 1:38:41 GMT -5
Another thing that I have found with regulating breathe, I can reduce pain levels. I tend to hold my breathe when in high levels of pain instead of breathing through it. Makes a difference when I remember to do that. Meditation also helps release tightness in my muscles which also makes pain levels higher, so physically, mentally I find meditation is a tremendous tool. Yes, snow. It certainly does reduce pain levels for me also.
No doubt it is true because that when you have pain your muscles tighten up against the pain which reinforces it.
Look! What do they keep telling you when you are having a baby? Take deep breaths!
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Post by Gene on Mar 1, 2015 10:50:36 GMT -5
Another thing that I have found with regulating breathe, I can reduce pain levels. I tend to hold my breathe when in high levels of pain instead of breathing through it. Makes a difference when I remember to do that. Meditation also helps release tightness in my muscles which also makes pain levels higher, so physically, mentally I find meditation is a tremendous tool. Yes, snow. It certainly does reduce pain levels for me also.
No doubt it is true because that when you have pain your muscles tighten up against the pain which reinforces it.
Look! What do they keep telling you when you are having a baby? Take deep breaths!
Is that what they tell you? I thought it was "Blame Eve!"
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Post by snow on Mar 1, 2015 15:09:44 GMT -5
Yes, snow. It certainly does reduce pain levels for me also.
No doubt it is true because that when you have pain your muscles tighten up against the pain which reinforces it.
Look! What do they keep telling you when you are having a baby? Take deep breaths!
Is that what they tell you? I thought it was "Blame Eve!" Don't laugh! I actually had a nurse on one of the shifts tell me that's why women had pain in labor. When you have been in labor for almost 12 hours and you don't believe in that stuff to start with, she is lucky all I did was ignore her. That's the closest I've come to slapping someone up the side of head, but then you know how cranky women in labor can get lol... However, yes they do teach you how to breath in Lamaze classes. I never had the benefit of Lamaze class before I delivered by 1st child, but I learned pretty quick breath regulating really did help.
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Post by rational on Mar 1, 2015 15:29:39 GMT -5
My Thoughts: 1. The Bible makes it clear that we avoid the "Trance" state. 2. Meditation involving repeating a word puts us in a trance. Not Good 3. I have seen a lot of people in a trance at 2x2 conventions. 4. Many video gamers live their lives in a trance like state. And so on and so forth... Its not a good thing! A fair number of studies have been done on how the brain functions during various activities, including meditation. Mediation may not be that much different than other activities people engage in.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 16:01:55 GMT -5
Ah yes, thankfully they warned us in Lamaze class about that part too
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Post by Gene on Mar 1, 2015 19:38:35 GMT -5
Is that what they tell you? I thought it was "Blame Eve!" Don't laugh! I actually had a nurse on one of the shifts tell me that's why women had pain in labor. When you have been in labor for almost 12 hours and you don't believe in that stuff to start with, she is lucky all I did was ignore her. That's the closest I've come to slapping someone up the side of head, but then you know how cranky women in labor can get lol... However, yes they do teach you how to breath in Lamaze classes. I never had the benefit of Lamaze class before I delivered by 1st child, but I learned pretty quick breath regulating really did help.
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Post by Gene on Mar 1, 2015 19:39:07 GMT -5
she knows her bible!
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Post by snow on Mar 1, 2015 22:35:15 GMT -5
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