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Post by Scott Ross on Mar 13, 2015 3:25:32 GMT -5
I always enjoyed hearing Leslie and William Lewis preach. They could keep me engaged and interested. People would drive hundreds of miles to hear Leslie preach.His preaching style is lacking in the "Kingdom" today. Leslie knew he could manipulate a crowd with his speaking abilities...at least among the Friends. I am not sure it wasn't like a game for him. It appears he feels he is still in the game......
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Post by matisse on Mar 13, 2015 6:13:29 GMT -5
Leslie knew he could manipulate a crowd with his speaking abilities...at least among the Friends. I am not sure it wasn't like a game for him. It appears he feels he is still in the game...... Oh, the "weeping" from the platform he could do if given the chance.....
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Post by matisse on Mar 13, 2015 13:22:07 GMT -5
Scott, is it correct to say that Leslie is still "wanted for questioning" in Colorado?
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bulsi
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WHAT WE DO IN LIFE ECHOES IN ETERNITY !
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Post by bulsi on Mar 13, 2015 13:58:14 GMT -5
No Leslie White is not wanted in connection with this worker...If he was he would be in jail. Here say can not get you put in jail it's only Gossip move on.....
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Post by matisse on Mar 13, 2015 14:10:48 GMT -5
No Leslie White is not wanted in connection with this worker...If he was he would be in jail. Here say can not get you put in jail it's only Gossip move on..... I asked if Leslie is wanted in Colorado for questioning. I am asking Scott, who has credibility with me and who I believe is in a position to learn directly from the authorities in Colorado the about the status of the case. I have no reason to trust your answer. I also have no reason to trust the contents of the email Leslie circulated.
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bulsi
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WHAT WE DO IN LIFE ECHOES IN ETERNITY !
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Post by bulsi on Mar 13, 2015 14:45:41 GMT -5
Scott, is it correct to say that Leslie is still "wanted for questioning" in Colorado?
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Post by matisse on Mar 13, 2015 14:53:57 GMT -5
Here say can not get you put in jail it's only Gossip move on..... Men who assault women have been betting on this with great success for eons. If LW's words hold up to scrutiny, so be it. It is not clear to me yet that they do. If SW's account is true, then she has been cruelly dismissed (JUDGED) without recourse. Again, men have been sexually assaulting women for years with little risk of ever being held accountable. This possibility in this case is my concern.
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Post by SharonArnold on Mar 13, 2015 15:02:09 GMT -5
I always enjoyed hearing Leslie and William Lewis preach. They could keep me engaged and interested. People would drive hundreds of miles to hear Leslie preach.His preaching style is lacking in the "Kingdom" today. Leslie knew he could manipulate a crowd with his speaking abilities...at least among the Friends. I am not sure it wasn't like a game for him. I do not know Leslie White, the only exposure I've ever had to knowledge of him has been on this site. However, based on other people I've known, I understand how it could have been like a game to him. This is one of my favorite far side cartoons of all time. In my exiting years, I thought this was pretty representative of me (the standing sheep). There's so much truth (and humor) to this. In the end, we perhaps kind of asked for it. Nevertheless, the 2X2 world is definitely not exempt from its megalomaniacs and sociopaths. I've known a few. Whether Leslie is one of these, it might be kind of hard to say. I only had a passing acquaintanceship with Willis Propp. I do not think he was either a megalomaniac or a sociopath. But he was a reasonably gifted speaker and pretty charismatic. Even as a teenager, I labelled him, in my own mind, as "silver-tongued". However, someone who grew up with him and did know him well, said that he told her (this was before his years of infamy) that he had to be very careful, because he knew that people could be drawn to him personally instead of to the gospel. When you know that you have this kind of power over people, I think you need to be a fairly extraordinary human being to not exercise it.
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Post by Scott Ross on Mar 13, 2015 15:06:35 GMT -5
Leslie's lawyer wouldn't allow him to be questioned. The investigator has stated that the case is still open, and that he still wants the opportunity to interview Leslie.
Since Leslie has made the claim that he has proof that he couldn't have raped the sister worker (because he wasn't there at the time of the alleged incident), then it would stand to reason that he would be willing now to make a statement. If that statement were to clear him, it would certainly make sense for him to provide a statement. He wouldn't even have to go to Colorado to do so. Law enforcement where he is at could certainly question him, using questions provided by the investigator. Since anyone able to verify the facts would more than likely live in Colorado (other than the other workers who have stated that Leslie was there at the time of the alleged incident), it would be fairly easy for the investigator to question them.
It isn't hearsay, as hearsay is "the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law". In this case, it is Leslie's word against the word of the sister worker.
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Post by matisse on Mar 13, 2015 15:12:23 GMT -5
Leslie's lawyer wouldn't allow him to be questioned. The investigator has stated that the case is still open, and that he still wants the opportunity to interview Leslie. Since Leslie has made the claim that he has proof that he couldn't have raped the sister worker (because he wasn't there at the time of the alleged incident), then it would stand to reason that he would be willing now to make a statement. If that statement were to clear him, it would certainly make sense for him to provide a statement. He wouldn't even have to go to Colorado to do so. Law enforcement where he is at could certainly question him, using questions provided by the investigator. Since anyone able to verify the facts would more than likely live in Colorado (other than the other workers who have stated that Leslie was there at the time of the alleged incident), it would be fairly easy for the investigator to question them. It isn't hearsay, as hearsay is "the report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law".
In this case, it is Leslie's word against the word of the sister worker. Thanks, Scott. It is possible that the subject will come up with family who were on Leslie's email distribution list. I want to be able to accurately and succinctly offer these other facts that suggest a different picture than than the one Leslie paints in his email. LW's words do not hold up very well under scrutiny.
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Post by SharonArnold on Mar 13, 2015 15:13:37 GMT -5
Scott, is it correct to say that Leslie is still "wanted for questioning" in Colorado? Are you for real? Do you believe in a creator God and a day of reckoning? If so, you really might want to re-examine your quote AND the context. Love does not mean turning a blind eye to wrong-doing. (That's cowardice, pure and simple.) In fact, Love probably means standing up for the defenseless (as much as you are capable) in the face of wrongdoing.
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Post by xna on Mar 13, 2015 15:28:44 GMT -5
Leslie knew he could manipulate a crowd with his speaking abilities...at least among the Friends. I am not sure it wasn't like a game for him. I do not know Leslie White, the only exposure I've ever had to knowledge of him has been on this site. I knew LW fairly well, a long time ago. He would stay in our home, and we felt blessed to have him as a most favored worker, probably second to the likes of George Walker. We kept a guest book back then and all the workers would sign it and comment on the GW and LW visits. Other workers seemed to also be impressed most by these two. We were; young, innocent, ignorant, naïve, as a young couple we had no idea of any power structure, or any wrong doings. Looking back I suspect they may have found us refreshing in that regard. What I remember most about Leslie was he was one of the few workers which would talk to us about Revelations. We had a sense that LW must have been given special Revelations from god to explain that book, as most other workers would not speak very much on Revelations. I have no direct knowledge of the recent accusations. I hope justice prevail’s for all.
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bulsi
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WHAT WE DO IN LIFE ECHOES IN ETERNITY !
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Post by bulsi on Mar 13, 2015 17:12:58 GMT -5
Oh Jesus, friend of sinners Open our eyes to the world at the end of our pointing fingers Let our hearts be led by mercy Help us reach with open hearts and open doors Oh Jesus, friend of sinners, break our hearts for what breaks yours
Yeah...
Jesus, friend of sinners, the one who's writing in the sand Made the righteous turn away and the stones fall from their hands Help us to remember we are all the least of these Let the memory of Your mercy bring Your people to their knees Nobody knows what we're for only what we're against when we judge the wounded What if we put down our signs crossed over the lines and loved like You did
Oh Jesus, friend of sinners Open our eyes to world at the end of our pointing fingers Let our hearts be led by mercy Help us reach with open hearts and open doors Oh Jesus, friend of sinners, break our hearts for what breaks yours
You love every lost cause; you reach for the outcast For the leper and the lame; they're the reason that You came Lord I was that lost cause and I was the outcast But you died for sinners just like me, a grateful leper at Your feet
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Post by rational on Mar 13, 2015 21:31:27 GMT -5
No Leslie White is not wanted in connection with this worker...If he was he would be in jail. Here say can not get you put in jail it's only Gossip move on..... I asked if Leslie is wanted in Colorado for questioning. I am asking Scott, who has credibility with me and who I believe is in a position to learn directly from the authorities in Colorado the about the status of the case. I have no reason to trust your answer. I also have no reason to trust the contents of the email Leslie circulated. You sound like a very skeptical person. And yet you claim to be female. Hmmmm.
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Post by matisse on Mar 13, 2015 22:04:46 GMT -5
Oh Jesus, friend of sinners Open our eyes to the world at the end of our pointing fingers Let our hearts be led by mercy Help us reach with open hearts and open doors Oh Jesus, friend of sinners, break our hearts for what breaks yours Yeah... Jesus, friend of sinners, the one who's writing in the sand Made the righteous turn away and the stones fall from their hands Help us to remember we are all the least of these Let the memory of Your mercy bring Your people to their knees Nobody knows what we're for only what we're against when we judge the wounded What if we put down our signs crossed over the lines and loved like You did Oh Jesus, friend of sinners Open our eyes to world at the end of our pointing fingers Let our hearts be led by mercy Help us reach with open hearts and open doors Oh Jesus, friend of sinners, break our hearts for what breaks yours You love every lost cause; you reach for the outcast For the leper and the lame; they're the reason that You came Lord I was that lost cause and I was the outcast But you died for sinners just like me, a grateful leper at Your feet What does this have to do with, let's say, a man who has pre-meditated that he can rape a woman because it is highly unlikely that anyone who "matters" will believe her account and highly unlikely that he will ever be held accountable for it? Let's say, a man who knows that the powers-that-be will cloak him in a requirement that his victim(s) "forgive him" and not talk about it with anyone? A man with no reason, if even the capacity, to regret his actions? A man who doesn't necessarily believe any longer in a Judgement Day, or feel any need to repent or be forgiven.....even if that is what he has spent his life tearfully preaching to admirers who hang off of his every word, and at some level he is oh, so angry about this.... Not claiming these things are true about any man in particular here.
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Post by matisse on Mar 13, 2015 23:58:34 GMT -5
I asked if Leslie is wanted in Colorado for questioning. I am asking Scott, who has credibility with me and who I believe is in a position to learn directly from the authorities in Colorado the about the status of the case. I have no reason to trust your answer. I also have no reason to trust the contents of the email Leslie circulated. You sound like a very skeptical person. And yet you claim to be female. Hmmmm. Hear me roar!
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Mar 14, 2015 1:23:26 GMT -5
My Mum ( and she was professing but we won't hold that against her) used to say:
Birds of a feather flock together. This about sums up the people that are supporting LW.
Be sure your sins will find you out. Seems like a lot of people know about this guy, his alleged rape of someone and his unwillingness to face the music.
One day you will stand before God to be judged. Poor ol LW is not to keen on facing the music here but one day he will be standing before God. And if he is unwilling to confess his sin on this earth what hope does someone with such a hard heart have with God.
On a lighter note. What is wrong with you guys in the USA that you will let a sister worker be raped, your wives bothered by this man. What a bunch of wimps. Go and sort the guy out. Give him a knuckle sandwich. That ought to make him think about the error of his ways.
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Post by rational on Mar 14, 2015 7:30:54 GMT -5
You sound like a very skeptical person. And yet you claim to be female. Hmmmm. Hear me roar! Is that what I heard? I thought it was just dyspepsia!
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Post by rational on Mar 14, 2015 7:45:47 GMT -5
Be sure your sins will find you out. Seems like a lot of people know about this guy, his alleged rape of someone and his unwillingness to face the music. I would not consider myself a LW supporter (I may have met him once decades ago) but given that the charges against him are, as you say, alleged it may be that he has no music to face. You have admitted they are rumors but then state LW is unwilling to admit to the charges. I take it you have evidence that others do not have. You should contact the authorities. They are probably operating under the influence of christian doctrine. I agree that this has been handled badly. There have been longstanding rumors but if no one is willing to bring the charges to the authorities in a timely manner it is difficult to make the charges stick. On the other hand some of the rumors have not been legal issues. People have claimed that LW talked to the wives of members and asked a long series of questions that were inappropriate. It raises the question of why anyone would answer the questions? Members need to say "Stop" when the questioning crosses the line. In some people's minds the fact that the victim continues to listen to and answer the question amounts to tacit approval of the line of questioning. This does not make LW's actions right but until everyone takes responsibility for their actions these events will continue to happen.
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Post by matisse on Mar 14, 2015 8:36:54 GMT -5
I do not know Leslie White, the only exposure I've ever had to knowledge of him has been on this site. I knew LW fairly well, a long time ago. He would stay in our home, and we felt blessed to have him as a most favored worker, probably second to the likes of George Walker. We kept a guest book back then and all the workers would sign it and comment on the GW and LW visits. Other workers seemed to also be impressed most by these two. We were; young, innocent, ignorant, naïve, as a young couple we had no idea of any power structure, or any wrong doings. Looking back I suspect they may have found us refreshing in that regard. What I remember most about Leslie was he was one of the few workers which would talk to us about Revelations. We had a sense that LW must have been given special Revelations from god to explain that book, as most other workers would not speak very much on Revelations. I have no direct knowledge of the recent accusations. I hope justice prevail’s for all. I have known LW for as long as I can remember. The rose colored glasses fell off about 30 years ago. I am not terribly optimistic about justice prevailing for all.
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Post by rational on Mar 14, 2015 8:51:31 GMT -5
I am not terribly optimistic about justice prevailing for all. What would be just? I wonder if there would be interest in a thread about justice.
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Post by matisse on Mar 14, 2015 9:21:37 GMT -5
I am not terribly optimistic about justice prevailing for all. What would be just? I wonder if there would be interest in a thread about justice. I believe there is some level of justice in what is presently happening to Bill Cosby. In cases where a powerful man has sexually assaulted a woman or women, and taking him to court is not an option, the public shaming and tearing down of a legacy may be the only kind of justice available. I know this is tricky, because it so often comes down to his word versus her word. In the case of Bill Cosby, nearly 30 women later I believe there is no longer room for "reasonable doubt". LW? At this point, I think what can be done is to point out the slipperyness of his words, to broadcast, for example, that the investigation in Colorado is NOT closed, despite what Leslie wrote in his email that would suggest otherwise....highlight anything that he says or does that rightfully calls his credibility into question.
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Post by matisse on Mar 14, 2015 9:31:39 GMT -5
Is that what I heard? I thought it was just dyspepsia! ...well, it is true that I was sick yesterday.
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bulsi
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Post by bulsi on Mar 14, 2015 12:45:53 GMT -5
linkWhat would be just? I wonder if there would be interest in a thread about justice. I believe there is some level of justice in what is presently happening to Bill Cosby. In cases where a powerful man has sexually assaulted a woman or women, and taking him to court is not an option, the public shaming and tearing down of a legacy may be the only kind of justice available. I know this is tricky, because it so often comes down to his word versus her word. In the case of Bill Cosby, nearly 30 women later I believe there is no longer room for "reasonable doubt". LW? At this point, I think what can be done is to point out the slipperyness of his words, to broadcast, for example, that the investigation in Colorado is NOT closed, despite what Leslie wrote in his email that would suggest otherwise....highlight anything that he says or does that rightfully calls his credibility into question.
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Post by matisse on Mar 14, 2015 13:00:55 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 13:17:25 GMT -5
Some believe this recent accusation is a plot from anti-divorce west coast overseers unhappy with the position LW takes on remarriage. Seems like the late William Lewis was falsely accused leading to IH being installed as head worker just before Wm. Lewis' death. I loved to hear LW preach as he was very stimulating. I wished there were more preachers like him who were more interested in deep spiritual matters and less interested in petty stuff.
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Post by matisse on Mar 14, 2015 13:29:12 GMT -5
Some believe this recent accusation is a plot from anti-divorce west coast overseers unhappy with the position LW takes on remarriage. For some, it is all about the men and only about the men. This is consistent with other misogynistic attitudes.
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bulsi
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WHAT WE DO IN LIFE ECHOES IN ETERNITY !
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Post by bulsi on Mar 14, 2015 13:32:23 GMT -5
Yes walker you are on to something Leslie White is the one worker who put fear in the power structure and has for sometime. Ask Irving Ross To easy to call him a Rapist and create fear against him male and female!
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