Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2015 14:15:09 GMT -5
Perhaps thinking himself convicted (possibly even sentenced to constant shame) in the kangaroo court of 2&2 "justice" with all of his being tied up in that system and knowing his innocence of an unanswerable charge, and believing he was appealing to a higher court, and a righteous judge, his decision in such a mindset is not so difficult to understand. In fact, such a choice is perhaps not so stupid or unbalanced as some posters here want others to believe. Why not, everyone, just accept he was innocent and felt ready to appeal to who he believed to be his God, Creator, Redeemer, and most of all in such a moment, a just judge?
Now a younger person with a long life expectancy ahead, might realize more easily that their thinking process had become suspect, and seek help. I know from experience, I did early in my life -- in mid life with the vile accusations of a non sexual nature that came along such thinking was tempered by concern for those who loved me. Had I believed I had no such people, and if the best days of my life were behind me, I could very well have chosen the same course. It is said to be a permanent solution to a temporary situation. Harsh unjust excommunication over false accusations at a late stage in life might well seem a permanent condition. Just because it may not have yet happened does not mean the one in anguish could not see it coming.
|
|
|
Post by meerkat on Mar 16, 2015 16:34:21 GMT -5
So nice to read the positive comments in your post.I have been reading your posts for some time now without participating and you come across as a very caring man yourself while still being realistic about situations and problems.Guess some of the deep experiences you have mentioned facing have shaped you to what you are today. Having known Percy as a friend and a man of great compassion and sensitivity I could well imagine the scenario you describe.During the time I was in fellowship he was caring towards everyone he came in contact with as far as I know and have yet to meet anyone who found him otherwise. I don't know any details of what he is supposed to have done and keep an open mind obviously but feel very upset about the end to his life even though I am no longer in the fellowship.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2015 17:34:34 GMT -5
So nice to read the positive comments in your post.I have been reading your posts for some time now without participating and you come across as a very caring man yourself while still being realistic about situations and problems.Guess some of the deep experiences you have mentioned facing have shaped you to what you are today. Having known Percy as a friend and a man of great compassion and sensitivity I could well imagine the scenario you describe.During the time I was in fellowship he was caring towards everyone he came in contact with as far as I know and have yet to meet anyone who found him otherwise. I don't know any details of what he is supposed to have done and keep an open mind obviously but feel very upset about the end to his life even though I am no longer in the fellowship. Thank you for your kind post. I perceive you understand quite a bit also. So sad for the loss felt by those who knew him well (I did not, never even met him.) Nonetheless, it is very easy for me to empathize with such as he for the very reasons you mention.
If people find it so easy to pick words apart in this forum, how much easier to participate in what I find distasteful eagerness to expose something, especially when it has the possibility, even potential of being something shameful. How I wish to calm that which might become rough waters for another, without giving free passes for any shameful behavior, be it mine or another's.
For much of my life, it was my experience to live with those, who if there was an opening to get a "dig" in, they did so, sometimes for a laugh, and other times to make a hurtful comment. People being people, we even see that done in this forum, and quite often, too.
|
|
|
Post by mdm on Mar 16, 2015 17:51:06 GMT -5
Perhaps thinking himself convicted (possibly even sentenced to constant shame) in the kangaroo court of 2&2 "justice" with all of his being tied up in that system and knowing his innocence of an unanswerable charge, and believing he was appealing to a higher court, and a righteous judge, his decision in such a mindset is not so difficult to understand. In fact, such a choice is perhaps not so stupid or unbalanced as some posters here want others to believe. Why not, everyone, just accept he was innocent and felt ready to appeal to who he believed to be his God, Creator, Redeemer, and most of all in such a moment, a just judge?
Now a younger person with a long life expectancy ahead, might realize more easily that their thinking process had become suspect, and seek help. I know from experience, I did early in my life -- in mid life with the vile accusations of a non sexual nature that came along such thinking was tempered by concern for those who loved me. Had I believed i had no such people, and if the best of my life were behind me, I could very well have chosen the same course. It is said to be a permanent solution to a temporary situation. Harsh unjust excommunication over false accusations at a late stage in life might well seem a permanent condition. Just because it may not have yet happened does not mean the one in anguish could not see it coming. Dennis, this is not a case of the 2x2 church against this man. The accusation did not come from the workers. In Ben Crompton's message it clear that he was putting the blame on the one who brought allegations against Percy. professing.proboards.com/post/629439
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2015 19:00:20 GMT -5
Dear Maja, you may well be right.
Nonetheless, from first hand experience, I know the workings of the 2&2 ministry and how it functions. So did this fellow. Had the man expected the worst from the context spoken to him by his "cardinal" and possibly even "pope," (both considered infallible along with any group of them no matter how small in number) then it is quite easy for me to see how this poor bloke was thinking.
When I knew I had to even just leave that work, with excellent reputation still intact, the indoctrinated shame and disgrace for doing so, and knowing the myriads of false accusations that would follow lodged by various ones covering their own behinds, (and there is a much more vulgar way of putting that) made me seriously consider walking out in front of an approaching tunnelbahn. At the last instant I realized I was simply not thinking straight way back in 1971.
Now, putting one's self in this poor fellow's shoes, imagine the amount of shame and guilt he would have felt over a false accusation of such a nature, and even more so if there were any truth in it. In either case, he would have known the workings of that system's bosses. Believe me, maybe drastic changes have occurred, but I doubt it. People get to those levels by being hypocrites. In nearly a half century of experience with them, I could only name very few on the fingers of one hand that were not such men. My empathy continues with the soul of that poor fellow.
|
|
|
Post by smokeyjoe on Mar 18, 2015 18:58:40 GMT -5
No one can imagine the heart ache and desperation any one must feel when they actually decide to take their own life and follow that thought process through to its final conclusion. I know first hand that when a member of the church turns to the workers in times of trouble (like marriage difficulties or claims of a sexual nature) the support that one is brought up to believe is there is simply no existant and a very negative response is given. i was thrown out after divorce without my side of the story even being listened to. I remember very well the feeling of shock and bewilderment at the total lack of justice so I wonder did Percy expereice the same lack of care, love and support and thus in loneliness and dispair he was driven over the brink. Also I wonder if the accusor went to the workers with a concern which was badly dealt with resulting in a very angry legal response. If this is the case then I wouldnt like to be Mr Crompton on the judgement day. Of course we havent got the accusors side of the story but I knew Percy for a long time since he went into the work and I always found him to be a true man of God - a quiet humble person who was peaceable and kind. My thoughts and prayers are with the family. I remember in Ireland the work was looked after by 3 very different workers. This worked well because decisions were made using the combination of 3 minds rather than 1 as it seems to be in England now.
|
|
Grief
New Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by Grief on Apr 19, 2015 16:56:59 GMT -5
Please see new thread Percy Watkins Funeral notes
|
|
|
Post by bendle on Apr 26, 2015 19:42:55 GMT -5
I see on the thread 'Percy Watkins Funeral Notes' that and other online sites/forums that some posters are making reference to Percy having been accused of csa or sexual misconduct.
This is NOT the case. The allegation against him has NOT been made public as such (unless someone would care to enlighten me with hard facts)so all anyone KNOWS is that there IS an allegation of some kind. The allegation dates back to the period before he became a worker and was as far as I know working for his father.
The internet being the place where anonymity allows rumour and supposition to be presented as fact has now linked Percy to foul deeds forever it would seem. Shame on you who have done so, wait for the inquest!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 5:04:25 GMT -5
The inquest is unlikely to bring much to light. The inquest will likely simply confirm the tragic circumstances of the end of Percy’s life.
A good number in the UK now know the allegation made against Percy – this has been acknowledged when asked about of ‘those in authority’, so it wouldn't be true to say that the allegation is unknown. Some of course don’t know, and may well be content with that. The person with the allegation is unknown to most still, and it is important that they should be given every consideration at this time. It will have been a difficult time for them.
It will be good if the church can move forward from this. It will be good if the person with the allegation is able to move forward too with their life. And it will be good if Percy’s family with time can move on from their deep sorrow too.
The only problem I see is if, with time, the overseer’s message given to the ‘friends’ in the UK at the time of Percy’s death, is found to have been misleading (or spun) in any way. If that should ever be found to be the case, then I suspect there will be sad consequences indeed for the church.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 6:11:00 GMT -5
My understanding of an inquest is to try to determine the cause of an unnatural death, it is not necessarily held to throw light on the life of the deceased person, just the circumstances surrounding the death, e.g. Murder, suicide, accidental or natural causes.
|
|
|
Post by greysparrow on May 2, 2015 16:43:17 GMT -5
Hello, I still go to meetings and knew Percy well and some of my relations were quite close to the family. As Bendle says this happened when he was at home working on the family farm. The person making the allegations (does that make him an alligator?, I shall call him Al for short, Not his real name!) was a friend of the family and used to stay with them. While it was a farm house there were several inhabitants and everyone had to share bedrooms and Al shared a bedroom on his visits with Percy and some of his brothers. About 9 months ago Al said he had been abused by Percy and Percy thought that it was going to be a legal case. He told his closest friends including my relation who told me. At Christmas time I met him and told him I had heard and he seemed relieved to be able to discuss it. He seemed bewildered by the allegation but said there had been no further action, and did not name his accuser nor run him down. He had written to Al but did not know his current address and had no idea if he had received it. I have heard since that Al had parted from his wife and stopped going to meetings. It seems Al had such a convincing story that several members of his family believed him At the time and since there has been some high profile cases of 'celebrities' being arrested for questioning very publicly, and, for some, subsequently 'unarrested' quietly for lack of evidence and Percy was disturbed that he would be regarded as good hunting because of being religious. About 2 weeks before his death 'Wings' contacted several elder workers about Al's allegation and it was then that legal advice was sought. I don't think Percy was condemned by the workers, certainly foreign workers had rung him that morning to encourage him and one told me that if he had known what Percy was thinking of he would have set off immediately to prevent that happening. Percy had said that he could not see how it would end but no one realised he was in such a state. I do not know Al nor very much about him. Whether there was an innocent accident that preyed on his mind, whether it was a general annoyance with the religion or with Percy. I have heard that he was annoyed because Percy had dealt kindly with his wife but that was as a rumour. He seems to have stayed friends with some of the family for some time after the time he claimed the incident had happened. I had thought 'Wings' should have been more careful but after reading some of the harrowing tales on this board, I am fairly new to it, I can see they have to run with what they are given, and if Al is convinced something happened then he does need support. I suppose it is the cult of secrecy that caused 'Wings' to be needed in the first place; perhaps if this had been dealt with more openly Percy would still have been with us. As others on here have said Percy was highly regarded by most people and I think would have had the support of most people. We were looking forward to having an kindly overseer that we could approach. At the risk of being told I have my head stuck in Snow's infamous bucket of sand, I cannot believe Percy had done anything deliberately. I did know a worker who abused little boys, thankfully not me, but of my generation, so I actually know it happens, he disappeared shortly afterwards, and there are enough heart-wrenching tales on this board. I believe Ben was quoting Percy's words from his note when he said it was for the sake of the kingdom.
|
|
|
Post by Gene on May 2, 2015 18:20:55 GMT -5
So Al was married? That pretty much rules out CSA, right?
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on May 2, 2015 23:14:27 GMT -5
A very sad situation - my thoughts and prayers are with Percy's family. My prayers and thoughts are also with the person who made the allegation. Ben Crompton's message (as it has been relayed here) is very unfortunate. Apart from anything else, as Emy put it, when a worker takes his life as result of unresolved allegations, it raises many more questions than it answers and can't be positive for the fellowship or anyone involved. Ben Crompton's message will create enormous pain for the person who has made the allegation - the allegation, whatever it is, may well be true. No-one generally brings allegations against a worker that require legal advice, lightly. It is generally only done after much consideration. Of course, the person who has made the allegation may now take it further - Ben may ultimately regret the words he has chosen. In a world of instant media, the person making the allegation may well choose to make it public. "Damage to the Kingdom" is an interesting term. We need to remember that God's Kingdom is his - it is not ours and does not belong to any worker or minister or person on earth. We are not even guardians of it - it is God's alone and we are in it by His grace. Percy was obviously in a dark place and it is easy to understand how he could have felt that he didn't want to cause any further grief to the fellowship - which is often referred to as the Kingdom. I am not sure why Ben Crompton would repeat the statement - it's an interesting insight into the mind of a Head Worker and what they believe. For once I agree with you, Bowden. ( I know, that may seem so impossible that it must be that the world is coming to an end ! )
However, why anyone needed make such statement like Ben Crompton did, is quite beyond me. The statement did not have to be so explicit!
My first thought was that Crompton only worded it that way because he was trying to lay a big guilt trip on someone!
Crompton 's email: "Percy has been under considerable personal and emotional stress recently due to legal allegations made against him from some time ago. Upon seeking legal advice, he was told that no matter how untrue these allegations, it is almost impossible to prove innocence. It seems that Percy could find no other way than to take his own life and so avoid further damage to the kingdom."
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on May 2, 2015 23:29:44 GMT -5
So Al was married? That pretty much rules out CSA, right? He may have been just a child & not been married when it is alleged to have happened.
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 3, 2015 4:10:34 GMT -5
A very sad situation - my thoughts and prayers are with Percy's family. My prayers and thoughts are also with the person who made the allegation. Ben Crompton's message (as it has been relayed here) is very unfortunate. Apart from anything else, as Emy put it, when a worker takes his life as result of unresolved allegations, it raises many more questions than it answers and can't be positive for the fellowship or anyone involved. Ben Crompton's message will create enormous pain for the person who has made the allegation - the allegation, whatever it is, may well be true. No-one generally brings allegations against a worker that require legal advice, lightly. It is generally only done after much consideration. Of course, the person who has made the allegation may now take it further - Ben may ultimately regret the words he has chosen. In a world of instant media, the person making the allegation may well choose to make it public. "Damage to the Kingdom" is an interesting term. We need to remember that God's Kingdom is his - it is not ours and does not belong to any worker or minister or person on earth. We are not even guardians of it - it is God's alone and we are in it by His grace. Percy was obviously in a dark place and it is easy to understand how he could have felt that he didn't want to cause any further grief to the fellowship - which is often referred to as the Kingdom. I am not sure why Ben Crompton would repeat the statement - it's an interesting insight into the mind of a Head Worker and what they believe. For once I agree with you, Bowden. ( I know, that may seem so impossible that it must be that the world is coming to an end ! )
However, why anyone needed make such statement like Ben Crompton did, is quite beyond me. The statement did not have to be so explicit!
My first thought was that Crompton only worded it that way because he was trying to lay a big guilt trip on someone!
Crompton 's email: "Percy has been under considerable personal and emotional stress recently due to legal allegations made against him from some time ago. Upon seeking legal advice, he was told that no matter how untrue these allegations, it is almost impossible to prove innocence. It seems that Percy could find no other way than to take his own life and so avoid further damage to the kingdom."
I would agree with you on this DM and very well put. Crompton has attempted to shift the focus of wrong doing to the victim. How unusual, how novel. I would also add that Watkins appears to have received very poor legal advice.
|
|
|
Post by Gene on May 3, 2015 6:57:10 GMT -5
So Al was married? That pretty much rules out CSA, right? He may have been just a child & not been married when it is alleged to have happened.Ah, yes, I see I read it wrong -- I thought it was the alleged abuse happened nine months ago, but I see it's actually the report that happened nine months ago. Thanks for pointing that out. G
|
|
|
Post by meerkat on May 3, 2015 18:13:37 GMT -5
Hello, I still go to meetings and knew Percy well and some of my relations were quite close to the family. As Bendle says this happened when he was at home working on the family farm. The person making the allegations (does that make him an alligator?, I shall call him Al for short, Not his real name!) was a friend of the family and used to stay with them. While it was a farm house there were several inhabitants and everyone had to share bedrooms and Al shared a bedroom on his visits with Percy and some of his brothers. About 9 months ago Al said he had been abused by Percy and Percy thought that it was going to be a legal case. He told his closest friends including my relation who told me. At Christmas time I met him and told him I had heard and he seemed relieved to be able to discuss it. He seemed bewildered by the allegation but said there had been no further action, and did not name his accuser nor run him down. He had written to Al but did not know his current address and had no idea if he had received it. I have heard since that Al had parted from his wife and stopped going to meetings. It seems Al had such a convincing story that several members of his family believed him At the time and since there has been some high profile cases of 'celebrities' being arrested for questioning very publicly, and, for some, subsequently 'unarrested' quietly for lack of evidence and Percy was disturbed that he would be regarded as good hunting because of being religious. About 2 weeks before his death 'Wings' contacted several elder workers about Al's allegation and it was then that legal advice was sought. I don't think Percy was condemned by the workers, certainly foreign workers had rung him that morning to encourage him and one told me that if he had known what Percy was thinking of he would have set off immediately to prevent that happening. Percy had said that he could not see how it would end but no one realised he was in such a state. I do not know Al nor very much about him. Whether there was an innocent accident that preyed on his mind, whether it was a general annoyance with the religion or with Percy. I have heard that he was annoyed because Percy had dealt kindly with his wife but that was as a rumour. He seems to have stayed friends with some of the family for some time after the time he claimed the incident had happened. I had thought 'Wings' should have been more careful but after reading some of the harrowing tales on this board, I am fairly new to it, I can see they have to run with what they are given, and if Al is convinced something happened then he does need support. I suppose it is the cult of secrecy that caused 'Wings' to be needed in the first place; perhaps if this had been dealt with more openly Percy would still have been with us. As others on here have said Percy was highly regarded by most people and I think would have had the support of most people. We were looking forward to having an kindly overseer that we could approach. At the risk of being told I have my head stuck in Snow's infamous bucket of sand, I cannot believe Percy had done anything deliberately. I did know a worker who abused little boys, thankfully not me, but of my generation, so I actually know it happens, he disappeared shortly afterwards, and there are enough heart-wrenching tales on this board. I believe Ben was quoting Percy's words from his note when he said it was for the sake of the kingdom.
|
|
|
Post by meerkat on May 3, 2015 18:27:15 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing this as I too knew Percy well and could never imagine him intentionally harming anyone.It is all so sad that he felt so desperate and could see no other way out. I no longer go to meetings but have no reason to be bitter thankfully. I always felt as if it was wrong to discuss problems openly but found my peace when I left the meetings and have been able to deal with my own demons and am a much more open person as a result.Percy was a huge help to me through a very difficult time. I still have the greatest respect for my professing family and friends. I agree that the person you call Al needs support too and know that leaving the meetings can be a very mixed up and traumatic time for some people.
|
|
|
Post by toparrow on May 9, 2015 3:40:05 GMT -5
Calling Ben Crompton I am now issue a plea I beg of you please stand down as UK boss . You are total incompetent loser
|
|
|
Post by Greg on May 9, 2015 8:42:17 GMT -5
Calling Ben Crompton I am now issue a plea I beg of you please stand down as UK boss . You are total incompetent loser Posts like this - and now mine - which make me wish there was more control over these posts. This is just my thought, but I think at least "Death Notices" would have posts limited specifically to the death notice and maybe some fond remembrances of the deceased.
|
|
|
Post by toparrow on May 9, 2015 9:48:18 GMT -5
The reason I am calling for Mr Crompton to stand down as leader is as follows. Percy Watkins I remember was a true gentleman. I feel Mr Crompton should have found him a good lawyer to fight any case brought to court. After all Mr Crompton as plenty of funds in his trust fund. After all we do live in free country and not some tin pot dictatorship
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 19:21:09 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by aristotle on Jun 19, 2015 14:05:10 GMT -5
Meerkat, I'm pretty sure you and I will know each other from what you have said. I too have spent lots of time with Percy and others in the family. Percy, I always thought, was a very kind and humble man. It would be naive however to think that therefore he cannot be guilty. Whilst he always seemed very nice to me, and clearly you, that is not proof of anything.
His suicide, whilst tragic, will always imply guilt. The note he left also does this. Looks can be deceptive and I understand this. I have no idea if he was innocent or guilty and neither do you. That is the truth of the matter.
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Jun 19, 2015 14:42:33 GMT -5
The reason I am calling for Mr Crompton to stand down as leader is as follows. Percy Watkins I remember was a true gentleman. I feel Mr Crompton should have found him a good lawyer to fight any case brought to court. After all Mr Crompton as plenty of funds in his trust fund. After all we do live in free country and not some tin pot dictatorship According to what I understand, the allegations were never reported to the authorities, only to the workers. The alleged victim was also not the one to speak with the workers, but rather a family member. It was unlikely that this would ever have ended up being a court case. Missionary drowned after allegations made
A missionary drowned himself after accusations were made against him, an inquest heard. Percy Watkins, 58, a member of the Church with No Name, died in a bath at a house in Freckleton.
The nature of the allegations was not divulged in the inquest and police say they were never reported to them. However, a coroner yesterday heard Mr Watkins left a note saying he wanted to ‘give my accuser some peace.’
Mr Watkins had been attending meetings in Lancashire with friend Peter Liddle and UK overseer Ben Crompton. The inquest, held in Blackpool, was told Mr Watkins came from Waterstone, near Hereford, but he preached in the North West. His religious group, also known as the Two by Twos, do not have church buildings and meet in members’ homes. Lancashire Police launched an investigation after his body was found at a detached bungalow on Kirkham Road, Freckleton, in February this year. Det Sgt Simon Pritchard told the inquest Mr Watkins had been staying with fellow followers of the religion. One of them raised the alarm and paramedics attended who called in the police.
Det Sgt Pritchard said: “Allegations had been made against Percy Watkins but no police force had been involved by his accuser. “A note was found written by Percy Watkins which said he was sorry for all the trouble he had caused. He wrote ‘I hope this will give my accuser some peace for the sake of the kingdom.’ “There was no sign of any violence or disturbance in the house. We have checked nationwide to see if Percy Watkins had been named as a suspect but we could find no record of it. We did take his mobile phone and there messages which said he was going through a dark time. Deputy coroner Chris Beverley recorded drowning as the cause of death. He said: “Percy Watkins took his own life in a deliberate act.”
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jun 19, 2015 17:55:18 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be difficult to drown yourself in a bathtub? I mean logistically it's certainly doable, but I would think you're survival instinct would set in and you would surface when you couldn't get a breath. I don't know how I would be able to hold my head under even if I wanted to kill myself. I imagine it was thoroughly investigated and found to suicide and not murder and the note was definitely his writing? I apologize if my questions here offend anyone, but it just struck me as an odd way to commit suicide.
|
|
hberry
Senior Member
Posts: 743
|
Post by hberry on Jun 19, 2015 18:07:23 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be difficult to drown yourself in a bathtub? I mean logistically it's certainly doable, but I would think you're survival instinct would set in and you would surface when you couldn't get a breath. I don't know how I would be able to hold my head under even if I wanted to kill myself. I imagine it was thoroughly investigated and found to suicide and not murder and the note was definitely his writing? I apologize if my questions here offend anyone, but it just struck me as an odd way to commit suicide. Snow, I've been puzzling over this since I read it earlier today. I'm glad you had the same thoughts. It made me feel even worse than I had when I heard about his suicide earlier and assumed he'd hung himself. Dear soul.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jun 19, 2015 18:12:44 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be difficult to drown yourself in a bathtub? I mean logistically it's certainly doable, but I would think you're survival instinct would set in and you would surface when you couldn't get a breath. I don't know how I would be able to hold my head under even if I wanted to kill myself. I imagine it was thoroughly investigated and found to suicide and not murder and the note was definitely his writing? I apologize if my questions here offend anyone, but it just struck me as an odd way to commit suicide. Snow, I've been puzzling over this since I read it earlier today. I'm glad you had the same thoughts. It made me feel even worse than I had when I heard about his suicide earlier and assumed he'd hung himself. Dear soul. That is what I thought too when I heard of his suicide. That or maybe pill overdose. So when Scott posted how he died, it really surprised me and opened up a lot of questions for me. It's very sad in any case.
|
|
|
Post by emy on Jun 19, 2015 21:30:15 GMT -5
I thought the same as you, ladies. Even if the note was definitely in his writing, that could be coerced. Ah well, maybe too many cop novels!
|
|