|
Post by BobWilliston on Nov 25, 2014 17:04:42 GMT -5
How can you tell if someone who is born again or not? I said that I was saying that I feel at home with those who have similar beliefs to me - that was the question dmm asked me. I could say I have similar beliefs to those who believe in being born again but then the 2x2s say that but I would no longer feel at home with them. So it would depend on what someone means when they say they are born again. You say you know, How would you know? Have you got your definition of what being born again is? Wikipedia is a good start. Of course the Bible is the best. You weren't answering anyone else's question but mine. Read your post. I, no one else, asked you a straight forward simple question and you gave me a straight forward answer. And I assured you that I understood. I didn't want to know what Wikipedia or the Bible says about it, I just wanted to know how you know. I liked your answer especially because you actually answered for yourself.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Nov 25, 2014 17:09:13 GMT -5
So where do those who get saved under Valiant Thor fellowship, Nathan? With the 2x2s or other churches? ~~ Valiant Thor goal has been pointing people to follow Jesus. It's the Holy Spirit, who will guide and lead the SAVED to join the more perfect Way and Truth of Jesus (2x2) that is my experience and others 2x2s like myself.
~~ Commander Thor's Purpose In COMING to Earth: He stated that he came in order to help mankind return to the Lord. He spoke in positive terms, always with a smile on his face. He said God was displeased with the fact that mankind is farther away from Him than ever before, but that there is still a good chance for mankind to find salvation if he looks for it in the right place. Commander Thor said, "There are Presently 77 of us WALKING AMONG you In the United States. We are constantly Coming AND Going "
We(Pastor Frank and Valiant Thor) discussed the merits of Jesus Christ ... how He gave His Life freely... so that men could enjoy the benefits of eternal life. I questioned him about a Bible on Venus and he assured me that a personal unbroken fellowship with the "Author" did not necessitate the printing of a "book". He found it amusing that many theologians attempt to discredit both Jesus Christ and The Bible. The very God many have said is "dead" continues to lavish them with all good things. Perhaps they will, in time, permit the spark of Divine Light to again illuminate their troubled hearts. In answer to my question of what he thought of Jesus Christ, he said, "I know that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega of yours and everyone else faith. He today has assumed His rightful position as the ruler of the universe and is preparing a place and a time for all who are called by His Name to ascend far above the clouds to where His Power and Authority shall never again be disputed."
www.galactic-server.net/rune/valthor2.html 2) Valiant is not a worker with the 2x2s so how can he be a true messengers of God? Interview with Dr. Frank E. Stranges about Valiant Thor on Art Bell radio show.Caller: Yeah. I was wondering have you considered this Thor character to be the Anti-Christ? Bell: The what character? Caller: The Thor... Stranges: No. Simply because he glorifies Jesus Christ and he glorifies God. Anti-Christ in no way, shape, manner or form is going to tell you that Jesus Christ is God or that the word of God is true. Caller: Ok. Thank you. Nathan said: ""]~~ Valiant Thor goal has been pointing people to follow Jesus. It's the Holy Spirit, who will guide and lead the SAVED to join the more perfect Way and Truth of Jesus (2x2) that is my experience and others 2x2s like myself. Nathan, Jesus is the Way ! There is no "more perfect Way & Truth of Jesus" that we have to JOIN ! If Val is pointing people to the workers why is he never mentioned, why don't the workers preach about those that Valiant Thor has pointed to the more perfect way ? How many workers have you discussed Valiant Thor with & what were their opinions ? Where is Valiant Thor mentioned in the Bible ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 18:33:10 GMT -5
Quote - "The problem with your argument is that you are trusting the judgment of non-experts in the field of authenticity rather than the experts in authenticity. Or does "authenticity" to you = what I believe to be authentic?"
The problem with "experts" is that they can't agree. And they bring their preconceived ideas to the discussion. And like to support their ideas with their studies.
Most early Christians had a fairly good idea of who Jesus was from what they read in the Old Testament, from those who directly knew Jesus or his apostles, or what was written down about Jesus from those they knew, directly or indirectly (ie John - his Gospels, his letters and his ministry amongst them.)
In the example of the Infancy Narrative of Thomas we are confronted with a Jesus not in accord with these three sources.
And some is plain common sense. "Experts" agreed the story of Abraham and the camels wasn't authentic because camels "were not domesticated at that period." Only, camels WERE domesticated. Lots of damage to people's faith was done, and the "experts" have moved on to other claims, not having acknowledged they were wrong.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Nov 25, 2014 19:23:28 GMT -5
So who is the "one Church " ? xna answered that one today. The Millerites which later became the 7th day adventists. See now, wasn't that easy. Sorry, all the rest are false because they weren't formed in 1844 according to prophecy in Daniel.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Nov 25, 2014 19:24:21 GMT -5
So who is the "one Church " ? Jesus 2x2 apostolic Itinerant New Testament ministry and Church/assembly of believers. Jesus said to Peter, " Upon this rock, I will Build MY Church and the gates of HELL shall NOT prevail against it." I bet St. Anne doesn't agree with you. It was the Catholic Church that has that claim to fame.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Nov 25, 2014 19:38:14 GMT -5
Where did you get this tidbit from? From the history of the churches. Those texts "chosen" for inclusion in the New Testament were the texts most Christians already had long believed were the authentic Gospels.
Some were patently not authentic. Infant narrative of Thomas for instance. Others were later century compilations.How do you know that for sure. You were given what someone wanted you to believe. You really have no idea of it's truth or authenticity. You have to trust that the RCC choose the right ones.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Nov 25, 2014 19:46:17 GMT -5
So where do those who get saved under Valiant Thor fellowship, Nathan? With the 2x2s or other churches? ~~ Valiant Thor goal has been pointing people to follow Jesus. It's the Holy Spirit, who will guide and lead the SAVED to join the more perfect Way and Truth of Jesus (2x2) that is my experience and others 2x2s like myself.
~~ Commander Thor's Purpose In COMING to Earth: He stated that he came in order to help mankind return to the Lord. He spoke in positive terms, always with a smile on his face. He said God was displeased with the fact that mankind is farther away from Him than ever before, but that there is still a good chance for mankind to find salvation if he looks for it in the right place. Commander Thor said, "There are Presently 77 of us WALKING AMONG you In the United States. We are constantly Coming AND Going "
We(Pastor Frank and Valiant Thor) discussed the merits of Jesus Christ ... how He gave His Life freely... so that men could enjoy the benefits of eternal life. I questioned him about a Bible on Venus and he assured me that a personal unbroken fellowship with the "Author" did not necessitate the printing of a "book". He found it amusing that many theologians attempt to discredit both Jesus Christ and The Bible. The very God many have said is "dead" continues to lavish them with all good things. Perhaps they will, in time, permit the spark of Divine Light to again illuminate their troubled hearts. In answer to my question of what he thought of Jesus Christ, he said, "I know that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega of yours and everyone else faith. He today has assumed His rightful position as the ruler of the universe and is preparing a place and a time for all who are called by His Name to ascend far above the clouds to where His Power and Authority shall never again be disputed."
www.galactic-server.net/rune/valthor2.html 2) Valiant is not a worker with the 2x2s so how can he be a true messengers of God? Interview with Dr. Frank E. Stranges about Valiant Thor on Art Bell radio show.Caller: Yeah. I was wondering have you considered this Thor character to be the Anti-Christ? Bell: The what character? Caller: The Thor... Stranges: No. Simply because he glorifies Jesus Christ and he glorifies God. Anti-Christ in no way, shape, manner or form is going to tell you that Jesus Christ is God or that the word of God is true. Caller: Ok. Thank you. 77?? did someone's companion die? Nathan, you can't in one post say that only the 2x2 church is right and then in the next post say that Thor is a messenger like the workers. He's not part of the church you belong to. And, you never answered the question about whether or not Thor is saved. If he's not a 2x2 how can he be saved?
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Nov 25, 2014 19:52:50 GMT -5
Snow I want to know where Thor is mentioned in the Bible ! But Nathan has gone quiet !
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Nov 25, 2014 20:02:11 GMT -5
Mary, can you yourself go into Catholic church, or a Pentecostal church , or a Baptist church, Jehovah Witness, an Anglican church & feel right at home & that you are in a Christian church?
I have no problem meeting with born again believers whether they go to a Catholic, Pentecostal, Baptist, Anglican and many other churches. I have no problem going to their church. I have been to many Pentecostal and Baptist churches and they are what I call home. I also feel at home in a Presbyterian Church and went with my friend while staying with her recently. The service was exactly the same as I get in other churches. I've even been to the Vatican ....... as a tourist mind you. Would I feel at home in a Catholic church, I do not know that would depend on how much of Mary they had around but I certainly feel at home meeting with a lot of Catholics who I consider are spirit filled. I see Jehovah Witnesses in a different light as they are not considered mainstream Christians. Are you saying that a Christian church has to be "considered mainstream Christians" for you to feel that they are one with the rest of the church of Christ?
What are the criteria for being a "mainstream" church and who judges it to be a"mainstream" church?
Do you believe that JW church & the Mormon church are one with the rest of the church of Christ?
|
|
|
Post by snow on Nov 25, 2014 20:03:42 GMT -5
Snow I want to know where Thor is mentioned in the Bible ! But Nathan has gone quiet ! Good luck with that! I would love to know who the guy in the picture he posts, really is!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 20:38:35 GMT -5
Sorry but I know nothing about a Valiant Thor. I don't read every thread on the TMB. Can you summarize him in one paragraph?
|
|
|
Post by findingtruth on Nov 25, 2014 21:10:13 GMT -5
Sorry but I know nothing about a Valiant Thor. I don't read every thread on the TMB. Can you summarize him in one paragraph? Bert, you're either playing "dumb" or have Nathan on 'ignore'. Nearly every post he makes refers to Valiant Thor.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 23:04:08 GMT -5
So who is the "one Church " ? God's
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 23:06:34 GMT -5
We are the one church. Born again believers are the one church. Note: it does not say One denomination. We are one church regardless of denomination and definitely not a church started 110 years ago by a man called William Irvine. But born again believers are the One church. We are all One body. One baptism as we are baptised unto Him not a denomination. Do you think God is interested in denominations or interested in our belief in Him. So Nathan no a denomination is not the true church. We (Christians) are the one church. We do not worship a denomination but we worship Jesus. Salvation is not in a denomination, it is in Jesus. Nathan you are doing what they did in the Bible when they said I follow Paul, follow Apollus etc. No, these people all add a bit to our spiritual lives but we do not follow them. We follow Jesus. Peter said the Rock was Jesus not what you call Jesus 2x2 apostolic Itinerant New Testament ministry and Church/assembly of believers. We have been discussing Eph 4 here, where there were evangelists, pastors and teachers etc. This is the New Testament apostolic church not the ministry you put forward. The church is not the ministry, the church is the people. ah no, one church are one, you are not one with us and we are not one with you
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Nov 25, 2014 23:19:43 GMT -5
Quote - "The problem with your argument is that you are trusting the judgment of non-experts in the field of authenticity rather than the experts in authenticity. Or does "authenticity" to you = what I believe to be authentic?" The problem with "experts" is that they can't agree. And they bring their preconceived ideas to the discussion. And like to support their ideas with their studies.
Most early Christians had a fairly good idea of who Jesus was from what they read in the Old Testament, from those who directly knew Jesus or his apostles, or what was written down about Jesus from those they knew, directly or indirectly (ie John - his Gospels, his letters and his ministry amongst them.)
In the example of the Infancy Narrative of Thomas we are confronted with a Jesus not in accord with these three sources.
And some is plain common sense. "Experts" agreed the story of Abraham and the camels wasn't authentic because camels "were not domesticated at that period." Only, camels WERE domesticated. Lots of damage to people's faith was done, and the "experts" have moved on to other claims, not having acknowledged they were wrong.PROBLEM is, the man you are trusting is not an expert in "Bible history" -- he's an expert in "Christian tradition". "TRADITION" Experts in Bible history have ALWAYS known who compiled the Bible and exactly why they chose what they did. Christian tradition has always rejected early church history in favor of the Roman church's favored political viewpoint. They even fought wars to make it that way. It's like asking a 2x2 about William Irvine -- they're probably not even going to know anything about him. Same thing when you ask a Christian about early church history -- earlier being before the Roman church beat up all the rest, that is.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Nov 25, 2014 23:58:21 GMT -5
So who is the "one Church " ? God's So in your opinion Virgo who are God's one Church ?
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Nov 26, 2014 0:01:59 GMT -5
We are the one church. Born again believers are the one church. Note: it does not say One denomination. We are one church regardless of denomination and definitely not a church started 110 years ago by a man called William Irvine. But born again believers are the One church. We are all One body. One baptism as we are baptised unto Him not a denomination. Do you think God is interested in denominations or interested in our belief in Him. So Nathan no a denomination is not the true church. We (Christians) are the one church. We do not worship a denomination but we worship Jesus. Salvation is not in a denomination, it is in Jesus. Nathan you are doing what they did in the Bible when they said I follow Paul, follow Apollus etc. No, these people all add a bit to our spiritual lives but we do not follow them. We follow Jesus. Peter said the Rock was Jesus not what you call Jesus 2x2 apostolic Itinerant New Testament ministry and Church/assembly of believers. We have been discussing Eph 4 here, where there were evangelists, pastors and teachers etc. This is the New Testament apostolic church not the ministry you put forward. The church is not the ministry, the church is the people. ah no, one church are one, you are not one with us and we are not one with you Wow, Virgo have you just proved that the 2x2's indeed do preach they are the "only true fellowship " by your above comment ! How self righteous is that !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 0:26:32 GMT -5
So in your opinion Virgo who are God's one Church ? those who love the Lord their God with all there hearts, souls, minds and spirits and their neighbours as themselves
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 0:27:54 GMT -5
ah no, one church are one, you are not one with us and we are not one with you Wow, Virgo have you just proved that the 2x2's indeed do preach they are the "only true fellowship " by your above comment ! How self righteous is that ! how does what i posted say what you posted?
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Nov 26, 2014 0:59:50 GMT -5
ah no, one church are one, you are not one with us and we are not one with you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 2:15:13 GMT -5
Quote - "PROBLEM is, the man you are trusting is not an expert in "Bible history" -- he's an expert in "Christian tradition". "TRADITION" Experts in Bible history have ALWAYS known who compiled the Bible and exactly why they chose what they did. Christian tradition has always rejected early church history in favor of the Roman church's favored political viewpoint. They even fought wars to make it that way. It's like asking a 2x2 about William Irvine -- they're probably not even going to know anything about him. Same thing when you ask a Christian about early church history -- earlier being before the Roman church beat up all the rest, that is."
Not sure what man you think I am trusting in. I know little about Catholic church tradition, but a comment made to my mother by a Catholic sums up what some Catholics think of the bible, "I wouldn't use it for toilet paper." If the RCC invented the NT they did a lousy job of it, for that book contends so much with Catholic Church doctrines (in some cases, even beliefs.) No. What we call the NT was cannon not because of its age but because of its authorhip. It was way too late to change it by the time Catholics assumed the power to do so.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 6:21:56 GMT -5
Snow I want to know where Thor is mentioned in the Bible ! But Nathan has gone quiet ! He is mentioned in the Bible,although not by name. Look up fables and enticing doctrines of men etc.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 6:23:55 GMT -5
Sorry but I know nothing about a Valiant Thor. I don't read every thread on the TMB. Can you summarize him in one paragraph? Bert, you're either playing "dumb" or have Nathan on 'ignore'. Nearly every post he makes refers to Valiant Thor. Bert just does not want to acknowledge me. Nathan has made it clear many times that Cmdr Val Thor and I are one and the same person!
|
|
|
Post by snow on Nov 26, 2014 12:42:27 GMT -5
ah no, one church are one, you are not one with us and we are not one with you Wow, Virgo have you just proved that the 2x2's indeed do preach they are the "only true fellowship " by your above comment ! How self righteous is that ! Actually I took it to mean that virgo doesn't believe any one church in particular is the true one, but that all are part of the one church of God which I take is no particular group but a blending of all God's people? Virgo if I'm wrong I apologize.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Nov 26, 2014 17:01:13 GMT -5
Ok, maybe you are right Snow. Virgo can you explain what you meant ?
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Nov 26, 2014 17:10:53 GMT -5
~~ If you don't hear my reply to your questions right away! because I am at work... I will try to answer posts after I get home. Nathan said: ~~ Valiant Thor goal has been pointing people to follow Jesus. It's the Holy Spirit, who will guide and lead the SAVED to join the more perfect Way and Truth of Jesus (2x2) that is my experience and others 2x2s like myself.1) Rose T. wrote: Nathan, Jesus is the Way ! There is no "more perfect Way & Truth of Jesus" that we have to JOIN ! If Val is pointing people to the workers why is he never mentioned, why don't the workers preach about those that Valiant Thor has pointed to the more perfect way? ~~ Most of the workers did NOT know Valiant Thor before. I know the workers read TMB... So, now they KNOW a little bit of Valiant Thor. 2) How many workers have you discussed Valiant Thor with & what were their opinions? ~~ I've not discuss about Valiant Thor with any of the worker, yet. I have told the friends about Valiant Thor. I know some of the workers, who read TMB have been reading about Valiant Thor's mission to earth the last two years. 3) Where is Valiant Thor mentioned in the Bible? Valiant Thor people are Venusians, they have been mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls and the in Old Testament. From the Dead Sea Scrolls: www.rense.com/general66/cave.htmScroll #3 Cave #3 "The Lord (Elohim) instructed his Angels, both from the Morning and Evening Star/Venus Planet, to assist Lot and his family to escape what was to befall the Cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Genesis chapters 17,18,19 Scroll #3 Cave #3 "The Lord (Elohim) instructed his Angels, both from the Morning and Evening Star/Venus Planet, to assist Lot and his family to escape what was to befall the Cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Genesis chapters 17,18,19. The Two Chosen ones instructed Lot and his family to drape themselves in white Garments (fine linen) and run away from the cities with great haste. Then a voice came from the darkening skies from on high and the other Heavenly Messengers, also from the Morning and Evening Star who rode in their chariots of fire saying unto all of them below, "Make haste because the judgment of Almighty God is about to fall upon these cities. We are prepared to obey His Voice and point our fire-spears towards the cities of sin and destroy them according to the Divine Will of the Father. Then a white light as bright as the sun blazed behind them and the Earth did shake with a mighty roar. The elements did separate as the cities of sin were leveled to the ground. The air above the Earth was filled with destructive dust and everyone including the animals. "The smoke rose into the heaven and did cloak the ground with destruction. Thus, the messengers, from the Stars did likewise accomplish their mission as their wheels returned to the skies where they rested with others in their home which was high above the Earth." "She who was the wife of Lot, because of her disobedience, did turn around and gaze upon the destruction. She was turned into what appeared to be the salt of the land and the deadly destructive dust that clung over the Earth did indeed cause her life to cease. The smoke and vapor from the cities rose higher and higher as the cities were laid waste in the wilderness on the plains of Zoar that morning." Nathan if you believe in Valiant Thor why haven't you told the workers about it or discussed it with them ? Could it be that you know how they will re-act ? The about you have shared about Lot does not mention Valiant Thor. rense.com Revelations Of The Dead Sea Scrolls 6-30-5 Note - The origin, authenticity and accuracy of these quotes in both translation and transliteration are unknown. - ed
|
|
|
Post by snow on Nov 26, 2014 20:51:53 GMT -5
Nathan if you believe in Valiant Thor why haven't you told the workers about it or discussed it with them ? Could it be that you know how they will re-act ? The about you have shared about Lot does not mention Valiant Thor. rense.com Revelations Of The Dead Sea Scrolls 6-30-5 Note - The origin, authenticity and accuracy of these quotes in both translation and transliteration are unknown. - ed Just so you know, you probably do, Nathan's version of the dead sea scrolls are not the authentic translations. I gave him the link to the translated dead sea scrolls, but he seems to like Dr. Stranges (I think that's who, could be wrong) version. These verses may be what Nathan is referring to as talking about Valiant Thor "11. "You shall also witness my angels and my Heavenly Messengers who will visit you in their chariots and assure you of the Gifts of God." 12. "My Heavenly Messengers will also bear you up on the wings of deliverance as I so instructed them to do." 13. "They will speak of me and my Glory and will show signs and wonders at my command. My Heavenly Messengers will also council you in the ways of the Lord and will reveal to you the wonders of the Universe, at My Command."
|
|
|
Post by snow on Nov 26, 2014 22:12:41 GMT -5
Ok, maybe you are right Snow. Virgo can you explain what you meant ? We will see. Could very easily be wrong. Maybe Virgo will enlighten us, maybe not.
|
|