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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 1:44:43 GMT -5
like Paul who was a worker Paul was not a worker either ! funny he made out he was 2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 22, 2014 1:59:53 GMT -5
Paul was not a worker either ! funny he made out he was 2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. Virgo are you saying that the above verse means Paul was a "worker" as in "The Workers" of the Fellowship ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 22, 2014 2:01:35 GMT -5
Paul wrote in II Cor. 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
Paul was a good worker... There were false apostles and deceitful workers in his days. II Cor. 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Nathan are you saying the same thing ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 22, 2014 2:12:59 GMT -5
No Nathan the workers today are NOT apostles of the 21st century ! The disciples/Apostle seen Jesus ! Big difference !
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 22, 2014 2:20:53 GMT -5
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible Ephesians 3:5
Which in other ages was not made known unto, the sons of men,.... That is, which mystery of Christ, and of the Gospel, was not made known to men in general, nor so clearly as under the Gospel dispensation. Some hints were given of it to Adam, immediately after his fall; and the Gospel was before preached to Abraham, Moses, and David, and others knew something of it; and it was still more fully dispensed in the times of the prophet Isaiah, and other following prophets: but then the knowledge of it was not so extensive, nor so clear as now; it lay hid in types and shadows, in obscure prophecies and short hints. Moreover, this may have respect particularly to the calling of the Gentiles, as appears from the following words; this was, in some measure, made known, as that in Christ all the nations of the earth should be blessed; that when Shiloh came, to him should the gathering of the people be; that the Messiah should be an ensign of the people, and to him should the Gentiles seek; that he should be the covenant of the people, and a leader and a commander of them; and that there should be great flockings to him; but then this was not known to many, and the time, mode, and circumstances of it were but little understood, and comparatively speaking, it was not known: however, it was not so known,
as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the spirit. The apostles and prophets were the superior officers in the Gospel dispensation; the former design the twelve apostles of Christ, and the latter such who had the gift of interpreting the prophecies of the Old Testament, and of foretelling things to come, having received gifts from Christ to fit them for such offices, some apostles, some prophets; and to these a revelation was made of the mystery of the Gospel in general, and of the calling of the Gentiles in particular, by the Spirit, who searches the deep things of God, and reveals them, and leads into all truth; and who, by falling upon the Gentiles, as upon Cornelius and his family, and by the success which he gave to the Gospel in the Gentile world, made their calling clear and manifest. The Complutensian edition reads, "by the Holy Spirit"; and so the Arabic and Ethiopic versions.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 22, 2014 2:47:48 GMT -5
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Post by Mary on Nov 22, 2014 3:37:27 GMT -5
Anyone who goes to work is a worker. the verses quoted here seem to be verbs as in doing rather than a noun i.e. The worker. I dont see the word worker in Eph 4 when listing the ministry. But I do see evangelists, pastor and teacher etc. It was these words that helped me wake up to just how far the workers church was from the one in the Bible.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 22, 2014 3:39:45 GMT -5
Agree Mary !
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 3:58:45 GMT -5
An apostle, from Classical Greek ἀπόστολος (apóstolos), meaning "one who is sent away",[1] is a messenger and ambassador. The purpose of such "sending away" is to convey messages, and thus "messenger" is a common alternative translation.[1] The term may be used metaphorically in various contexts, but is mostly found used specifically for early associates of the founder of a religion, who were important in spreading his teachings. The word in this sense derives from New Testament Greek and was used for the original Twelve Apostles of Jesus, as well as a wider group of Early Christian figures including Paul. Some other religions use the term for comparable figures in their history. The adjective "apostolic" is claimed as a continuing characteristic by many Christian churches, and so used far more widely, as in the Apostolic See as the official name for the Roman Catholic Papacy.
plainly a sent one
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 4:04:16 GMT -5
funny he made out he was 2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. Virgo are you saying that the above verse means Paul was a "worker" as in "The Workers" of the Fellowship ? yup anyone who is sent by God to preach the word of God down through the ages is a worker/preacher/apostle
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 4:06:01 GMT -5
Anyone who goes to work is a worker. the verses quoted here seem to be verbs as in doing rather than a noun i.e. The worker. I dont see the word worker in Eph 4 when listing the ministry. But I do see evangelists, pastor and teacher etc. It was these words that helped me wake up to just how far the workers church was from the one in the Bible. so are you saying the what Paul said is not true?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 4:07:13 GMT -5
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto, the sons of men,.... That is, which mystery of Christ, and of the Gospel, was not made known to men in general, nor so clearly as under the Gospel dispensation. Some hints were given of it to Adam, immediately after his fall; and the Gospel was before preached to Abraham, Moses, and David, and others knew something of it; and it was still more fully dispensed in the times of the prophet Isaiah, and other following prophets: but then the knowledge of it was not so extensive, nor so clear as now; it lay hid in types and shadows, in obscure prophecies and short hints. Moreover, this may have respect particularly to the calling of the Gentiles, as appears from the following words; this was, in some measure, made known, as that in Christ all the nations of the earth should be blessed; that when Shiloh came, to him should the gathering of the people be; that the Messiah should be an ensign of the people, and to him should the Gentiles seek; that he should be the covenant of the people, and a leader and a commander of them; and that there should be great flockings to him; but then this was not known to many, and the time, mode, and circumstances of it were but little understood, and comparatively speaking, it was not known: however, it was not so known, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the spirit. The apostles and prophets were the superior officers in the Gospel dispensation; the former design the twelve apostles of Christ, and the latter such who had the gift of interpreting the prophecies of the Old Testament, and of foretelling things to come, having received gifts from Christ to fit them for such offices, some apostles, some prophets; and to these a revelation was made of the mystery of the Gospel in general, and of the calling of the Gentiles in particular, by the Spirit, who searches the deep things of God, and reveals them, and leads into all truth; and who, by falling upon the Gentiles, as upon Cornelius and his family, and by the success which he gave to the Gospel in the Gentile world, made their calling clear and manifest. The Complutensian edition reads, "by the Holy Spirit"; and so the Arabic and Ethiopic versions. and with all that Paul still considered himself a worker in God's service
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 5:36:03 GMT -5
On the assumption that Paul was a highly educated man, and quite humble, I presume that if we THINK he's being arrogant or ignorant then perhaps we don't understand what he is trying to say.So, Paul, a man with headucation. He does not seem to be humble. I Think that Paul was very intelligent and well educated, but he was also forth right and he called a spade a spade; no hedging around the bushes with him; some folks disliked his approach to certain matters.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 22, 2014 6:00:15 GMT -5
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto, the sons of men,.... That is, which mystery of Christ, and of the Gospel, was not made known to men in general, nor so clearly as under the Gospel dispensation. Some hints were given of it to Adam, immediately after his fall; and the Gospel was before preached to Abraham, Moses, and David, and others knew something of it; and it was still more fully dispensed in the times of the prophet Isaiah, and other following prophets: but then the knowledge of it was not so extensive, nor so clear as now; it lay hid in types and shadows, in obscure prophecies and short hints. Moreover, this may have respect particularly to the calling of the Gentiles, as appears from the following words; this was, in some measure, made known, as that in Christ all the nations of the earth should be blessed; that when Shiloh came, to him should the gathering of the people be; that the Messiah should be an ensign of the people, and to him should the Gentiles seek; that he should be the covenant of the people, and a leader and a commander of them; and that there should be great flockings to him; but then this was not known to many, and the time, mode, and circumstances of it were but little understood, and comparatively speaking, it was not known: however, it was not so known, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the spirit. The apostles and prophets were the superior officers in the Gospel dispensation; the former design the twelve apostles of Christ, and the latter such who had the gift of interpreting the prophecies of the Old Testament, and of foretelling things to come, having received gifts from Christ to fit them for such offices, some apostles, some prophets; and to these a revelation was made of the mystery of the Gospel in general, and of the calling of the Gentiles in particular, by the Spirit, who searches the deep things of God, and reveals them, and leads into all truth; and who, by falling upon the Gentiles, as upon Cornelius and his family, and by the success which he gave to the Gospel in the Gentile world, made their calling clear and manifest. The Complutensian edition reads, "by the Holy Spirit"; and so the Arabic and Ethiopic versions. and with all that Paul still considered himself a worker in God's service He was an Apostle, Virgo NOT a worker ! Can the worker preform miracles Virgo ? Have any of the workers seen Christ ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 22, 2014 6:02:14 GMT -5
An apostle, from Classical Greek ἀπόστολος (apóstolos), meaning "one who is sent away",[1] is a messenger and ambassador. The purpose of such "sending away" is to convey messages, and thus "messenger" is a common alternative translation.[1] The term may be used metaphorically in various contexts, but is mostly found used specifically for early associates of the founder of a religion, who were important in spreading his teachings. The word in this sense derives from New Testament Greek and was used for the original Twelve Apostles of Jesus, as well as a wider group of Early Christian figures including Paul. Some other religions use the term for comparable figures in their history. The adjective "apostolic" is claimed as a continuing characteristic by many Christian churches, and so used far more widely, as in the Apostolic See as the official name for the Roman Catholic Papacy. plainly a sent one So now you are trying to say that workers are sent ones ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 22, 2014 6:10:09 GMT -5
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto, the sons of men,.... That is, which mystery of Christ, and of the Gospel, was not made known to men in general, nor so clearly as under the Gospel dispensation. Some hints were given of it to Adam, immediately after his fall; and the Gospel was before preached to Abraham, Moses, and David, and others knew something of it; and it was still more fully dispensed in the times of the prophet Isaiah, and other following prophets: but then the knowledge of it was not so extensive, nor so clear as now; it lay hid in types and shadows, in obscure prophecies and short hints. Moreover, this may have respect particularly to the calling of the Gentiles, as appears from the following words; this was, in some measure, made known, as that in Christ all the nations of the earth should be blessed; that when Shiloh came, to him should the gathering of the people be; that the Messiah should be an ensign of the people, and to him should the Gentiles seek; that he should be the covenant of the people, and a leader and a commander of them; and that there should be great flockings to him; but then this was not known to many, and the time, mode, and circumstances of it were but little understood, and comparatively speaking, it was not known: however, it was not so known, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the spirit. The apostles and prophets were the superior officers in the Gospel dispensation; the former design the twelve apostles of Christ, and the latter such who had the gift of interpreting the prophecies of the Old Testament, and of foretelling things to come, having received gifts from Christ to fit them for such offices, some apostles, some prophets; and to these a revelation was made of the mystery of the Gospel in general, and of the calling of the Gentiles in particular, by the Spirit, who searches the deep things of God, and reveals them, and leads into all truth; and who, by falling upon the Gentiles, as upon Cornelius and his family, and by the success which he gave to the Gospel in the Gentile world, made their calling clear and manifest. The Complutensian edition reads, "by the Holy Spirit"; and so the Arabic and Ethiopic versions. and with all that Paul still considered himself a worker in God's service Of course Paul was an apostle he seen Jesus ! Considering himself a worker in Gods service is NOT the same as saying he was "A Worker" ! "The apostles and prophets were the superior officers in the Gospel dispensation; the former design the twelve apostles of Christ, and the latter such who had the gift of interpreting the prophecies of the Old Testament, and of foretelling things to come, having received gifts from Christ to fit them for such offices, some apostles, some prophets; and to these a revelation was made of the mystery of the Gospel in general, and of the calling of the Gentiles in particular, by the Spirit,"
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 6:10:02 GMT -5
Anyone who goes to work is a worker. the verses quoted here seem to be verbs as in doing rather than a noun i.e. The worker. I dont see the word worker in Eph 4 when listing the ministry. But I do see evangelists, pastor and teacher etc. It was these words that helped me wake up to just how far the workers church was from the one in the Bible. Yes, your are quoting the definition of "worker." Even insects and animals can be classified as workers. Ants are workers- " go to the ant thou sluggard and consider her ways..." In a bee hive, the Queen bee is in charge but the other bees are the workers wo actually do the work. I agreed that the fellowship has assigned a special meaning to the word "worker" which is diversion/change from the scriptural references of "shepherds and sheep." Recently in another thread I have pointed out a similar change as regards the use of the title "Bishop" in the NT and and title "Elder" in the fellowship.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 22, 2014 6:31:45 GMT -5
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 22, 2014 6:32:14 GMT -5
The apostles in the Bible were given the title “Apostle” under two distinct criteria: They had been directly chosen and commissioned by Jesus. In other words, they were not self proclaimed or self appointed. And the other criteria is that they had actually seen the risen Lord. We see this very clearly in Acts 1 when the 11 apostles had to appoint another apostle to replace Judas. They stated in v. 21 that they had to choose somebody who had been with Jesus and who had seen Him after He resurrected. We also see Paul emphatically defend his position of apostleship by stating that the Lord had indeed appeared to him and commissioned him as an apostle. Do you realize the power and authority that the apostles had? They raised the dead. They passed by people so that even just their shadow brought God’s healing to those who were sick. They casted out demons. Yes, I know what you are thinking if you’re anything like me. You might be saying, “Well, modern day apostles claim to do all of those things. Haven’t you ever heard of the hankerchiefs that Benny Hinn sells so that people can be healed? Haven’t you ever been at revival meetings where demons were casted out of people and where the lame walked?” So, yes, I have heard of such things and I also have been at such meetings where those things were said to have occurred. So, how can I then refute these modern day apostles? Perhaps they would tell me that they, like Paul, were visited by the risen Lord in a vision and were appointed to the office of apostleship. No problem. Here is what we’re going to do…In addition to the first two criteria, which we already see that no modern day apostle really meets, we will also put them through two more criteria. From above link; www.howcantheyhear.org/2012/06/are-there-really-modern-day-apostles/
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 8:35:27 GMT -5
Yes, very powerful and thought provoking and rings true in my opinion. With all credit due to the workers, As I have mentioned in another thread, those that I have spoken to have never claimed to be apostles and have also acknowledge that they possessed no special powers to do miracles. They claim to be messengers ( workers) in the service of God, preaching the message of the Gospel.
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Post by snow on Nov 22, 2014 15:16:27 GMT -5
Probably from the Faith Mission, who probably used the above. A few of different denominations have used the word "Workers" for the preachers beside the Faith Mission. Paul used the term "Workers" as preachers for himself and his co-workers. ( II Cor. 6:1) They probably got the word "Workers" from Paul.Paul was a tent maker. He had employees. Maybe that's what he was referring to when he spoke of workers? He traveled selling his tents too, so probably had people help with that too? Just a thought why he used that particular word.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 19:46:35 GMT -5
So, Paul, a man with headucation. He does not seem to be humble. I Think that Paul was very intelligent and well educated, but he was also forth right and he called a spade a spade; no hedging around the bushes with him; some folks disliked his approach to certain matters. and do you think that he was guided by God?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 19:49:45 GMT -5
and with all that Paul still considered himself a worker in God's service He was an Apostle, Virgo NOT a worker ! Can the worker preform miracles Virgo ? Have any of the workers seen Christ ? so you are calling Paul a liar? what about those in the Bible who were not apostles who performed miracles Roselyn T? yes, haven't you?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 19:50:22 GMT -5
An apostle, from Classical Greek ἀπόστολος (apóstolos), meaning "one who is sent away",[1] is a messenger and ambassador. The purpose of such "sending away" is to convey messages, and thus "messenger" is a common alternative translation.[1] The term may be used metaphorically in various contexts, but is mostly found used specifically for early associates of the founder of a religion, who were important in spreading his teachings. The word in this sense derives from New Testament Greek and was used for the original Twelve Apostles of Jesus, as well as a wider group of Early Christian figures including Paul. Some other religions use the term for comparable figures in their history. The adjective "apostolic" is claimed as a continuing characteristic by many Christian churches, and so used far more widely, as in the Apostolic See as the official name for the Roman Catholic Papacy. plainly a sent one So now you are trying to say that workers are sent ones ? yup
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 19:57:36 GMT -5
and with all that Paul still considered himself a worker in God's service Of course Paul was an apostle he seen Jesus ! Considering himself a worker in Gods service is NOT the same as saying he was "A Worker" ! "The apostles and prophets were the superior officers in the Gospel dispensation; the former design the twelve apostles of Christ, and the latter such who had the gift of interpreting the prophecies of the Old Testament, and of foretelling things to come, having received gifts from Christ to fit them for such offices, some apostles, some prophets; and to these a revelation was made of the mystery of the Gospel in general, and of the calling of the Gentiles in particular, by the Spirit," isn't it? "a worker" in God's service there is none superiour officers in the gospel dispensation that is just mans thinking all are bought to the same level by the spirit, all brothers and sisters in Christ by the will of God but if you can prove Christ has made some superiour over others by His spirit i will gladly see it
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 23, 2014 3:00:56 GMT -5
He was an Apostle, Virgo NOT a worker ! Can the worker preform miracles Virgo ? Have any of the workers seen Christ ? so you are calling Paul a liar? what about those in the Bible who were not apostles who performed miracles Roselyn T? yes, haven't you? Virgo how am I calling Paul a liar ? Paul was an Apostle !
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 3:05:07 GMT -5
so you are calling Paul a liar? what about those in the Bible who were not apostles who performed miracles Roselyn T? yes, haven't you? Virgo how am I calling Paul a liar ? Paul was an Apostle ! by saying he wasn't a worker when he plainly showed he was, duh
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 23, 2014 3:27:30 GMT -5
Virgo how am I calling Paul a liar ? Paul was an Apostle ! by saying he wasn't a worker when he plainly showed he was, duh Virgo, Paul was a chosen Apostle of Jesus he was not a worker in the sense of workers that belong to the "Fellowship" ! Are you really saying that you believe workers are modern day apostles ? Who else preform miracles other than Jesus & his Apostles ?
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