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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 16:51:02 GMT -5
Were the 100 or so preachers mentioned in the NT married? Can't say. Lousy way to conduct a marriage - meeting at conventions.
Here is one example, given by Paul:
(only a half to one third of his partners most likely were mentioned - there could have been a rotation every one to two years)
1. Paul and Silas/Silvanus - Acts 15: 40, Acts 16:19.25.29; Acts 17:4,10; 2. Paul and Sosthenes - I Cor. 1:1 ca 3. Paul and Barnabas – Acts 9:27; 11:30; 11:22, 11:25-30; 12:25; 12:25; 13:1; 13:2-4; 15:1-41; 1 Cor 9:6; Gal 2:1,9 4. Paul and Aristarchus – Acts 20:4; 27:2; Col 4:10; Phlm 1:24 See (Seven) 5. Paul and Mark/Marcus/John Mark – 2 Tim 4:11 6. Paul and Timotheus - Acts 16:1-3; 16:21; 1 Cor 4:17; 1 Cor 16:10; Phil 1:1; Phil 2:19; Col 1:1; Paul and Secundus – Acts 20:4 7. Paul and Trophimus – Acts 20:4; Acts 21:29; 2 Tim 4:20 8. Paul and Sopater - Acts 20:4 see below. 9. Paul and Tychicus - Acts 20:4; Eph 6:21; Col 4:7; 2 Tim 4:12; Tit 3:12 10. Paul and Demas – Philemon 24; Col 4:14 AD61; 2 Tim 4:10 11. Paul and Titus - 2 Cor 2:13; 2 Cor 7:6,13; 2 Cor 8:23; 12. Paul and Epaphroditus - Phil 2:25; 4:18 13. Paul and Luke - 1 Tim 4:11
So if the new generation preachers were encouraged to marry - how would they have maintained their marriage? Clearly, the preachers mentioned here were all men (only because Paul was referring to his own partners.) Priscilla and Aquilla remain the only preaching couple I can think of.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 17:23:35 GMT -5
Yes, clearly some came into the Work already married. Peter most likely being a good case of this.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 17:25:02 GMT -5
Prisilla and Aquillia were church elders, they had fellowship meetings in their home, whom Paul stayed with. Peter was married and a few of other apostles besides the 12 and 70. Nathan, can you point us to any evidence of the few others? That would be most helpful.
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Post by Greg on Nov 21, 2014 17:31:05 GMT -5
Were the 100 or so preachers mentioned in the NT married? Can't say. Lousy way to conduct a marriage - meeting at conventions. Here is one example, given by Paul: (only a half to one third of his partners most likely were mentioned - there could have been a rotation every one to two years) 1. Paul and Silas/Silvanus - Acts 15: 40, Acts 16:19.25.29; Acts 17:4,10; 2. Paul and Sosthenes - I Cor. 1:1 ca 3. Paul and Barnabas – Acts 9:27; 11:30; 11:22, 11:25-30; 12:25; 12:25; 13:1; 13:2-4; 15:1-41; 1 Cor 9:6; Gal 2:1,9 4. Paul and Aristarchus – Acts 20:4; 27:2; Col 4:10; Phlm 1:24 See (Seven) 5. Paul and Mark/Marcus/John Mark – 2 Tim 4:11 6. Paul and Timotheus - Acts 16:1-3; 16:21; 1 Cor 4:17; 1 Cor 16:10; Phil 1:1; Phil 2:19; Col 1:1; Paul and Secundus – Acts 20:4 7. Paul and Trophimus – Acts 20:4; Acts 21:29; 2 Tim 4:20 8. Paul and Sopater - Acts 20:4 see below. 9. Paul and Tychicus - Acts 20:4; Eph 6:21; Col 4:7; 2 Tim 4:12; Tit 3:12 10. Paul and Demas – Philemon 24; Col 4:14 AD61; 2 Tim 4:10 11. Paul and Titus - 2 Cor 2:13; 2 Cor 7:6,13; 2 Cor 8:23; 12. Paul and Epaphroditus - Phil 2:25; 4:18 13. Paul and Luke - 1 Tim 4:11 So if the new generation preachers were encouraged to marry - how would they have maintained their marriage? Clearly, the preachers mentioned here were all men (only because Paul was referring to his own partners.) Priscilla and Aquilla remain the only preaching couple I can think of. I did a search on "How long was Paul a Christian?". Others have asked that question. One response was "Too bad people do not have the same interest in the ministry of Jesus."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 17:31:10 GMT -5
Wasn't Phillip married? Phillip the Apostle or Phillip the evangelist who preached after fleeing persecution? If the latter then he wasn't in the Ministry per se.
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Post by Greg on Nov 21, 2014 17:31:59 GMT -5
Prisilla and Aquillia were church elders, they had fellowship meetings in their home, whom Paul stayed with. Peter was married and a few of other apostles besides the 12 and 70.
The married apostles without children were supported by the churches just like the unmarried apostles. There were married workers among us for almost 100 yrs. The married workers were supported in the same way as the unmarried workers. Sometimes the friends raised the workers children for them. Some married workers raised their own children.
Few? Could have been many, even most.
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Post by Greg on Nov 21, 2014 18:21:17 GMT -5
Few? Could have been many, even most. A few means more than one, two or three. Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Silas, Titus, Luke, John, Matthew and others were NOT married. Majority of the apostles were NOT married for the sake of the kingdom so they wouldn't let anyone, cares of life tied them down.
Paul wrote in I Cor. 7:32-33 But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife.
In the past 100 yrs many of the married workers have the gift to do both: Serving God and pleasing his wife too while in the work.
So, a few means 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, and so on? Few means a small number. How do you know Timothy, Silas, Titus, Luke, John, Matthew and others were not married? How do you know the majority of the apostles were no married?
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Post by Greg on Nov 21, 2014 18:24:26 GMT -5
Paul wrote in I Cor. 7:32-33 But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife. I never cared for that view. I find it to be quite untrue and really quite arrogant...and ignorant.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 18:31:18 GMT -5
Quote - So, a few means 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, and so on? Few means a small number. How do you know Timothy, Silas, Titus, Luke, John, Matthew and others were not married? How do you know the majority of the apostles were no married?
It's been suggested by some Catholics (!) that by the time Peter went out preaching he was already widowed. Conjecture. John was evidently just a boy when he met Jesus. I doubt Jesus would have broken up marriages by sending these men out in pairs. But that's only my suspicion.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 18:32:35 GMT -5
Paul wrote in I Cor. 7:32-33 But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife. I never cared for that view. I find it to be quite untrue and really quite arrogant...and ignorant. ummm a unmarried person has less to worry about VS a married person...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 18:33:00 GMT -5
Paul wrote in I Cor. 7:32-33 But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife. I never cared for that view. I find it to be quite untrue and really quite arrogant...and ignorant. On the assumption that Paul was a highly educated man, and quite humble, I presume that if we THINK he's being arrogant or ignorant then perhaps we don't understand what he is trying to say.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 18:47:52 GMT -5
I do appreciate this discussion between two former workers. We relied and depended on the workers to point us in the right direction, spiritually and morally, and it would be Most helpful and beneficial if other former workers could join into discussions such as these so as to enlighten us on these matters of interest so that we might have a better understanding of these areas of interest. Thank you Greg and Nathan.
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Post by Mary on Nov 21, 2014 18:50:50 GMT -5
Missionary couples have no problem having and taking their children on the mission field. It depends on how much faith you have that God will provide.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 21, 2014 18:51:11 GMT -5
Prisilla and Aquillia were church elders, they had fellowship meetings in their home,
Paul said that Priscilla and Aquila were "fellow workers" with him, not elders. And the Bible records them being with Paul both in Greece and in NE Turkey, according to geography.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 21, 2014 18:52:20 GMT -5
Missionary couples have no problem having and taking their children on the mission field. It depends on how much faith you have that God will provide. One married worker couple in the US maintained a home and raised a family there while they preached.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 18:57:48 GMT -5
Prisilla and Aquillia were church elders, they had fellowship meetings in their home,
Paul said that Priscilla and Aquila were "fellow workers" with him, not elders. And the Bible records them being with Paul both in Greece and in NE Turkey, according to geography. the KJV says: Rom_16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: and 1Co_16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 19:01:29 GMT -5
Missionary couples have no problem having and taking their children on the mission field. It depends on how much faith you have that God will provide. Yes, a good point. But you can see in the NT that the itinerate (yes, 2x2) preachers rotated every year or two. Why that is so I don't know, but can guess. One of the major appeals of this arrangement was that it was evident to the people these men and women were preaching to that they had given up normal lives to go out and preach. This is what Jesus meant by the "corn of wheat dying" verse. Dragging a family around, and having others care for them, didn't present this message very well.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 19:01:52 GMT -5
Missionary couples have no problem having and taking their children on the mission field. It depends on how much faith you have that God will provide. One married worker couple in the US maintained a home and raised a family there while they preached. that would be the christies(sp?) right?
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 21, 2014 19:49:05 GMT -5
One married worker couple in the US maintained a home and raised a family there while they preached. that would be the christies(sp?) right? Yes
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Post by Greg on Nov 21, 2014 20:09:23 GMT -5
I never cared for that view. I find it to be quite untrue and really quite arrogant...and ignorant. On the assumption that Paul was a highly educated man, and quite humble, I presume that if we THINK he's being arrogant or ignorant then perhaps we don't understand what he is trying to say.So, Paul, a man with headucation. He does not seem to be humble.
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Post by Mary on Nov 21, 2014 20:14:13 GMT -5
Paul said that Priscilla and Aquila were "fellow workers" with him, not elders. And the Bible records them being with Paul both in Greece and in NE Turkey, according to geography. They were church elders... Paul wrote in Romans 16:3-5 Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus, who for my life risked their own necks, to whom not only do I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles; also greet the church that is in their house.They could still be workers and have church in their house. Interesting that the workers say that workers have to sell all but it is also clear that the church sold all and shared everything as in Priscilla and Aquila's case. Why do the workers say they have to do it but not the 'church'. Either both were for Jesus day or both were not. Where does it say they stayed 2 - 3 years in one place? Paul remained in his hired house for 2 years but I don't remember reading that they were to say 2 - 3 years in one place. And Paul was alone too and people came to him. It seems that the apostles were on the move a lot and did not stay in one place for longer than a few weeks or months at the most. They were continually on the move. Interesting also is that Jesus told them not to go house to house. The workers stay in several different houses in a city.
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Post by Greg on Nov 21, 2014 20:17:20 GMT -5
So, a few means 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, and so on? Few means a small number. How do you know Timothy, Silas, Titus, Luke, John, Matthew and others were not married? We read in the book of Acts and the epistles Barnabas, Timothy, Silas, Luke were Paul co-workers LIVING with him. We don't read these apostles brought any believing wives with them while they were Paul's fellow workers. There were no mention of their wives names.How do you know the majority of the apostles were no married? ~~ We read the gospel most the 12 apostles were with Jesus did NOT mention anything about having the wives with them. All it mentioned in the gospel Peter had a mother-in-law.You really cannot assume something was not done or had because such is not mentioned. Luke 8 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him, 2 and certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, 3 and Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance. Could be some (a few of the many ) wives followed their husbands who were students learning from the rabbi Jesus.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 20:18:45 GMT -5
Yes, Jesus told them not to go from house to house - but in his last week he seems to have stayed in maybe three different houses. That's a mystery.
And Paul said a woman should keep quiet in church - yet here he is defending woman preachers. That's another mystery.
I would first trust the example, then the wording of a particular verse.
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Post by Greg on Nov 21, 2014 20:27:05 GMT -5
They were church elders... Paul wrote in Romans 16:3-5 Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus, who for my life risked their own necks, to whom not only do I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles; also greet the church that is in their house. They could still be workers and have church in their house. Interesting that the workers say that workers have to sell all but it is also clear that the church sold all and shared everything as in Priscilla and Aquila's case. Why do the workers say they have to do it but not the 'church'. Either both were for Jesus day or both were not. Where does it say they stayed 2 - 3 years in one place? Paul remained in his hired house for 2 years but I don't remember reading that they were to say 2 - 3 years in one place. And Paul was alone too and people came to him. It seems that the apostles were on the move a lot and did not stay in one place for longer than a few weeks or months at the most. They were continually on the move. Interesting also is that Jesus told them not to go house to house. The workers stay in several different houses in a city. I think the hired (rented) house was due to Paul being under arrest. In the Bible "worker" is a generic descriptor such as laborer and servant. For the friends and workers, "worker" is more title or generic office of minister.
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Post by xna on Nov 21, 2014 20:27:13 GMT -5
Yes, Jesus told them not to go from house to house - but in his last week he seems to have stayed in maybe three different houses. That's a mystery. And Paul said a woman should keep quiet in church - yet here he is defending woman preachers. That's another mystery. I would first trust the example, then the wording of a particular verse. Oh how things have changed.
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Post by Greg on Nov 21, 2014 20:30:39 GMT -5
Yes, Jesus told them not to go from house to house - but in his last week he seems to have stayed in maybe three different houses. That's a mystery. And Paul said a woman should keep quiet in church - yet here he is defending woman preachers. That's another mystery. I would first trust the example, then the wording of a particular verse. The "go not house to house" was for the sending of the message that the messiah had come. Paul defended (and promoted?) women in general being helpers, not necessarily preachers. Very likely the women to be silent in the church means just that, in the church gathering the woman is to be silent.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 20:35:43 GMT -5
Not sure where the modern "Worker" term stems from, but this could be a clue:
Corinthians 6. "We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; By pureness, by knowledge, by long suffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things."
and this one ought be on a thread of its own, "... Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"
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Post by Gene on Nov 21, 2014 20:36:35 GMT -5
Paul wrote in I Cor. 7:32-33 But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife. I never cared for that view. I find it to be quite untrue and really quite arrogant...and ignorant. Greg, have you ever been married?
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