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Post by Lee on Dec 3, 2014 22:40:33 GMT -5
Trying to be perfect, coming up short and beating oneself up about it isn't good for one's mental condition. I have been there and done that-let me tell you it isn't easy. MY YOKE IS EASY, MY BURDEN IS LIGHT said our Master. I've experienced it first hand.
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Post by Lee on Dec 3, 2014 22:42:02 GMT -5
Thank God for Grace, the revelation of Grace, and the tradition that preserves that revelation.
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Post by rational on Dec 3, 2014 22:47:05 GMT -5
Thank God for Grace, the revelation of Grace, and the tradition that preserves that revelation. Thank God for Grace, the revelation of Grace, and the tradition that preserves that revelation. Hmmm.
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Post by magpie on Dec 3, 2014 23:16:53 GMT -5
WOOOO? Bound in an unbiblical sect,bound in having to visually adhere to a mans demand of dress,to adhere to middle Eastern cultural,tradition and religious hair length expetations ,to adhere to supporting the unbiblical demand of a celibate ministry (1 Cor,ch9,v5,and others),to adhere to the belief you are a nameless group,goodness wot a con that has been, to adhere to the belief Workers have the power to remove you from the"Lords" table,taking sacraments is between you and God.To adhere to fearing ministry authority over you as a psuedo replacement for the Holy Spirit,to adhere to the allowing the covering up of/sending interstate or off shore those of doubtful some criminal sexual behaviours,to adhere to exclusivism is unbiblical judgement on others performing christian lives and service,to adhere to a sect who have no social or welfare justice areas (for the suffering,abused,homeless,3rd world needs,prisoners,poor,seperated,etc)as N/T instructs and 2x2s say this is what you pay taxes for,one old worker said "it is not our consern",to adhere to allowing weeks a year that your empty gospel stops closed conventions start,and no salvation (2x2s sadly dont offer theologically to much of that) is available to the crying empty souls God is grieving for,selfish and self interest comming first. NO WONDER THOSE OSTRACISED,VICTIMED TO WORKER C.S.A,OR FEEL TRAPPED IN THE FINGURE POINTING GOSSIPY BITTER SECT,FACE MENTAL STRESS,EVEN TO BREAKDOWNS , SUICIDES, BUT THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN PICKED UP,GUIDED AND FIND A THEOLOGICAL STRONG FELLOWSHIP WE SEE GROW FROM STRENGTH TO STRENGTH.Dr David MILLIKEN who helps those who,try to become free,but have been damaged or destroyed by sects and cults. Mental problems and struggles the biggest battle,to replace with hope,Grace,love and security.
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Post by rational on Dec 4, 2014 9:09:54 GMT -5
WOOOO? Bound in an unbiblical sect,bound in having to visually adhere to a mans demand of dress,to adhere to middle Eastern cultural,tradition and religious hair length expetations ,to adhere to supporting the unbiblical demand of a celibate ministry (1 Cor,ch9,v5,and others),to adhere to the belief you are a nameless group,goodness wot a con that has been, to adhere to the belief Workers have the power to remove you from the"Lords" table,taking sacraments is between you and God.To adhere to fearing ministry authority over you as a psuedo replacement for the Holy Spirit,to adhere to the allowing the covering up of/sending interstate or off shore those of doubtful some criminal sexual behaviours,to adhere to exclusivism is unbiblical judgement on others performing christian lives and service,to adhere to a sect who have no social or welfare justice areas (for the suffering,abused,homeless,3rd world needs,prisoners,poor,seperated,etc)as N/T instructs and 2x2s say this is what you pay taxes for,one old worker said "it is not our consern",to adhere to allowing weeks a year that your empty gospel stops closed conventions start,and no salvation (2x2s sadly dont offer theologically to much of that) is available to the crying empty souls God is grieving for,selfish and self interest comming first. NO WONDER THOSE OSTRACISED,VICTIMED TO WORKER C.S.A,OR FEEL TRAPPED IN THE FINGURE POINTING GOSSIPY BITTER SECT,FACE MENTAL STRESS,EVEN TO BREAKDOWNS , SUICIDES, BUT THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN PICKED UP,GUIDED AND FIND A THEOLOGICAL STRONG FELLOWSHIP WE SEE GROW FROM STRENGTH TO STRENGTH.Dr David MILLIKEN who helps those who,try to become free,but have been damaged or destroyed by sects and cults. Mental problems and struggles the biggest battle,to replace with hope,Grace,love and security. A little whitespace would make posts more readable. I am not certain how much I would believe what a film maker and TV presenter/commentator presents. He seems to have little, if any, training in the field of working with people in cults. One question is whether it was joining a religious sect that caused the mental problems that were cited or if they were preexisting conditions. People who join an organization and support the leaders no matter what they observe and know have to take some of the responsibility for what happens within the organization. This does not mean that the methods employed to gain converts and retain them were ethical. It means that leaders without followers is not much of an organization.
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Post by Mary on Dec 4, 2014 16:59:25 GMT -5
Most were bought up in the organisation and were brain washed from birth. Many when they were old enough and with enough information from outside they choose to leave. So except for brainwashing or programming then what mental illness would you say someone who was born into the organisation have, Rational? What age do you think one can make a free choice? Given the number of children who were brought up in the organisation it shows that those brought up more are likely to join so how much is programming since birth and how much is free choice?
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Post by magpie on Dec 4, 2014 17:02:34 GMT -5
Rationale, You are the type if you won a new car you would say its awful cause it is green and I hate green. David was a great help in the Henderson Kids suicides time looking into a couple of questions that bothered me. Are you an expert in this area,do you spend most of your life reaching out to help deprogram a mind in cult/sect bondage?. It is a gift God has given him,he uses all forms of media to reach oput to those trapped and warning others of the dangers in falling tp the false teachings. How many suicides and mental breakdowns, his and his staffs work have saved is anyones guess,but a lot. Go work beside him for a while. Mind control is a work on its own to try and break,God uses people like David to free the prisoners of this curse.
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Post by magpie on Dec 4, 2014 17:07:12 GMT -5
Thanks Mary,Ol'Rationale is a stubborn one,isnt he? CANTANKEROUS PERHAPS the more discriptive word?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 11:40:39 GMT -5
Trying to be perfect, coming up short and beating oneself up about it isn't good for one's mental condition. I have been there and done that-let me tell you it isn't easy. MY YOKE IS EASY, MY BURDEN IS LIGHT said our Master. If one is doing those things, one is NOT in the yoke with Jesus. True. Actually trying to be perfect, spiritually speaking, is in itself a sign of madness to begin with, no one is perfect save Jesus; beating yourself up for coming up short confirms that you are mad. IMO. We can never be like Jesus no matter how we try. We need the mind and powers of Christ to be like Jesus, that is why we all come short of the glory of God; we are not perfect.
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Post by rational on Dec 5, 2014 17:37:36 GMT -5
If one is doing those things, one is NOT in the yoke with Jesus. True. Actually trying to be perfect, spiritually speaking, is in itself a sign of madness to begin with, no one is perfect save Jesus; beating yourself up for coming up short confirms that you are mad. IMO. We can never be like Jesus no matter how we try. We need the mind and powers of Christ to be like Jesus, that is why we all come short of the glory of God; we are not perfect. You can never be like Santa Claus or Cinderella either. Or Zeus or Athena. Or even The Grinch. The question is why would you try to be like anyone but yourself?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 17:46:44 GMT -5
True. Actually trying to be perfect, spiritually speaking, is in itself a sign of madness to begin with, no one is perfect save Jesus; beating yourself up for coming up short confirms that you are mad. IMO. We can never be like Jesus no matter how we try. We need the mind and powers of Christ to be like Jesus, that is why we all come short of the glory of God; we are not perfect. You can never be like Santa Claus or Cinderella either. Or Zeus or Athena. Or even The Grinch. The question is why would you try to be like anyone but yourself? everyone at some point aspires to be like someone they idolize who better than Christ Jesus...i know a few poeple including my grandfather who became pretty Christ like in their last few years...loving, kind, helpful, humble....etc...etc...
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Post by rational on Dec 5, 2014 18:03:36 GMT -5
You can never be like Santa Claus or Cinderella either. Or Zeus or Athena. Or even The Grinch. The question is why would you try to be like anyone but yourself? everyone at some point aspires to be like someone they idolize who better than Christ Jesus. Mahatma Gandhi? Noë Gijsen? Arndís Valbergsdóttir? But more to the point - Everyone does not idolize someone. They may admire a person but hopefully they will continue to be their own person instead of cloning themselves to be like someone they idolize. Not thinking for themselves is what gets a lot of people into trouble.I know a few people who are themselves-like and have been all of their lives. That takes more integrity than aping the characteristics of others.
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Post by rational on Dec 6, 2014 8:28:32 GMT -5
Most were bought up in the organisation and were brain washed from birth. Many when they were old enough and with enough information from outside they choose to leave. So except for brainwashing or programming then what mental illness would you say someone who was born into the organisation have, Rational? What age do you think one can make a free choice? Given the number of children who were brought up in the organisation it shows that those brought up more are likely to join so how much is programming since birth and how much is free choice? Perhaps mental illness was the wrong term to use but it was the subject of the thread. Dysfunctional families would seem to be more to the point. Families where the parents teach children that the actions of a select group, while wrong/unethical/criminal, should be overlooked because of the station that the actors occupy. People that put the welfare of the group before the welfare of their family. You are right, in these cases it is not mental illness. Brainwashing is a term, like cult, that needs to be used with care or well defined before it is applied. In most cases the children were not water boarded or deprived of sleep and/or other basic biological necessities to change their thinking. As far as joining after being brought up in a particular sect, the same is true regarding religion. How many people brought up as christians join other religions.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 10:56:28 GMT -5
everyone at some point aspires to be like someone they idolize who better than Christ Jesus. Mahatma Gandhi? Noë Gijsen? Arndís Valbergsdóttir? But more to the point - Everyone does not idolize someone. They may admire a person but hopefully they will continue to be their own person instead of cloning themselves to be like someone they idolize. Not thinking for themselves is what gets a lot of people into trouble.I know a few people who are themselves-like and have been all of their lives. That takes more integrity than aping the characteristics of others. Better try to explain that to the Secret Service and undercover workers and spies. They do it for a living, no integrity at all- scamps!
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Post by snow on Dec 6, 2014 12:17:00 GMT -5
Mahatma Gandhi? Noë Gijsen? Arndís Valbergsdóttir? But more to the point - Everyone does not idolize someone. They may admire a person but hopefully they will continue to be their own person instead of cloning themselves to be like someone they idolize. Not thinking for themselves is what gets a lot of people into trouble.I know a few people who are themselves-like and have been all of their lives. That takes more integrity than aping the characteristics of others. Better try to explain that to the Secret Service and undercover workers and spies. They do it for a living, no integrity at all- scamps! How many are Christians or some other religion? How many of the police are Christian or some other religion? People of religion have no more integrity and some cases, have less. There are bad and good in both groups, so labeling all atheists as lacking in integrity or being the cause of wars and all the bad is just not accurate. It's like saying all people of religion are like ISIS.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 13:04:10 GMT -5
Better try to explain that to the Secret Service and undercover workers and spies. They do it for a living, no integrity at all- scamps! How many are Christians or some other religion? How many of the police are Christian or some other religion? People of religion have no more integrity and some cases, have less. There are bad and good in both groups, so labeling all atheists as lacking in integrity or being the cause of wars and all the bad is just not accurate. It's like saying all people of religion are like ISIS. By the way snow, my comment was not intended to be taken seriously, a little satirical perhaps- a tease. It was not aimed at atheists or labelling atheists at all. Secret Service and undercover workers and spies normally disguise themselves and assume false identities to catch criminals etc. hence the comment, no integrity at all, they do it for a living.
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Post by snow on Dec 6, 2014 13:12:41 GMT -5
How many are Christians or some other religion? How many of the police are Christian or some other religion? People of religion have no more integrity and some cases, have less. There are bad and good in both groups, so labeling all atheists as lacking in integrity or being the cause of wars and all the bad is just not accurate. It's like saying all people of religion are like ISIS. By the way snow, my comment was not intended to be taken seriously, a little satirical perhaps- a tease. It was not aimed at atheists or labelling atheists at all. Secret Service and undercover workers and spies normally disguise themselves and assume false identities to catch criminals etc. hence the comment, no integrity at all, they do it for a living. aha, I see. Slow I am... lol
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 13:22:14 GMT -5
By the way snow, my comment was not intended to be taken seriously, a little satirical perhaps- a tease. It was not aimed at atheists or labelling atheists at all. Secret Service and undercover workers and spies normally disguise themselves and assume false identities to catch criminals etc. hence the comment, no integrity at all, they do it for a living. aha, I see. Slow I am... lol
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Post by rational on Dec 6, 2014 14:28:33 GMT -5
By the way snow, my comment was not intended to be taken seriously, a little satirical perhaps- a tease. It was not aimed at atheists or labelling atheists at all. Secret Service and undercover workers and spies normally disguise themselves and assume false identities to catch criminals etc. hence the comment, no integrity at all, they do it for a living. Not sure what someone does for an occupation is a reflection on their integrity.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 15:15:52 GMT -5
By the way snow, my comment was not intended to be taken seriously, a little satirical perhaps- a tease. It was not aimed at atheists or labelling atheists at all. Secret Service and undercover workers and spies normally disguise themselves and assume false identities to catch criminals etc. hence the comment, no integrity at all, they do it for a living. Not sure what someone does for an occupation is a reflection on their integrity. Really? What about a professional gangster and a hit man? They are nice people with a high level of integrity , aren't they? "bent" cops? Need a few more examples? Officials who accept bribes? Tell me when to stop.Ok, last one and then I am done. jesus asked Peter three times, Peter do you love me? And three times Peter answered in the affirmative, and Jesus told him "feed my sheep," " feed my sheep " and "feed my sheep and feed my lambs." Any professional or non professional Spiritual minister, Pastor, priest etc. who feed, but also abuse the sheep or lambs in his/her flock is very short of spiritual integrity also. So there you have it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 15:42:00 GMT -5
Not sure what someone does for an occupation is a reflection on their integrity. Really? What about a professional gangster and a hit man? They are nice people with a high level of integrity , aren't they? "bent" cops? Need a few more examples? Officials who accept bribes? Tell me when to stop. You missed the obvious one. Minister of Religion!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 15:54:22 GMT -5
Really? What about a professional gangster and a hit man? They are nice people with a high level of integrity , aren't they? "bent" cops? Need a few more examples? Officials who accept bribes? Tell me when to stop. You missed the obvious one. Minister of Religion! Check again, my list is now completed.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 15:56:23 GMT -5
You missed the obvious one. Minister of Religion! Check again, my list is now completed. Okay...Stop!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 16:57:27 GMT -5
Check again, my list is now completed. Okay...Stop! Muchas Gracias.
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Post by rational on Dec 6, 2014 20:50:49 GMT -5
Really? What about a professional gangster and a hit man? They are nice people with a high level of integrity , aren't they? Are they honest? From an ethical consideration honesty and truthfulness regarding one's actions is integrity. The professional gangster and a hit man who is honest regarding his activities and consistent in his actions can be said to have integrity.Stop whenever you wish. Considering a corrupt policeman - it is not the job that calls the individual into question but the other activities. It is not being an official that determines the integrity of the office holder but the actions taken while holding the office. And again, you have successfully demonstrated that it is not the profession that determines integrity but the actions of the individual. People in any of the professions you have provided as examples can have integrity or, as you have pointed out, can take actions that would call their integrity into question.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 6, 2014 23:57:13 GMT -5
Not sure what someone does for an occupation is a reflection on their integrity. Really? What about a professional gangster and a hit man? They are nice people with a high level of integrity , aren't they? "bent" cops? I checked out "occupation lists" and didn't find "professional gangster" or "hit man" or "bent" cops.
In fact the very use of such words reflect their lack of integrity.
So they are faux examples and can't be used pertaining to the conversation at hand.
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Post by Lee on Dec 7, 2014 6:37:29 GMT -5
everyone at some point aspires to be like someone they idolize who better than Christ Jesus. Mahatma Gandhi? Noë Gijsen? Arndís Valbergsdóttir? But more to the point - Everyone does not idolize someone. They may admire a person but hopefully they will continue to be their own person instead of cloning themselves to be like someone they idolize. Not thinking for themselves is what gets a lot of people into trouble.I know a few people who are themselves-like and have been all of their lives. That takes more integrity than aping the characteristics of others. No one can aspire to be anything apart from the good, the true, and the beautiful. Who better than JC, who transcends other do-gooders, with a coherent conception and promise of revelation and destiny?
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Post by snow on Dec 7, 2014 15:13:13 GMT -5
I prefer Lao Tzu myself. I don't see JC transcending any of the other masters the world has seen. The Buddha is another one. They came before JC and lots of his thoughts were very similar to their thoughts which he could very well have learned from them in the first place.
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