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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 19, 2014 1:59:18 GMT -5
I know a professing couple who feel like they have to travel 2 hours away to gospel meetings. This couple can have more colds and flus than anyone I know of . I'm afraid unbelief will not cure this. Matt10 No, unbelief won't cure their "colds & flues" but unbelief might keep them from attending some where that exposes them to a lot of other people who believe that THEY should attend every gospel meeting no matter how sick they are with "colds & the flu."
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Post by Mary on Nov 19, 2014 2:03:53 GMT -5
Here are some to add to your list Bert: Women have to wear their hair in a Bun Women cannot cut their hair Women cannot wear make-up Women cannot wear jewellery Women have to look to the women workers for their example of how to dress That's good - pretty well covered by Paul and Peter, actually. Let's keep going
Women professing Godliness should also not wear tatts not do studs not do ear piercing not do dope not do meth not do ice not do crack not sleep with men other than their husbands not abuse their kids not spit in public not shave their heads not disobey traffic laws not disobey tax laws not disobey civil laws not disobey criminal laws
... I tell you, a woman heeding all these laws might end up in a mental institution - but then again, maybe she wont'Talking about Paul you forgot to add women should not speak in church.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 2:39:52 GMT -5
Let's first agree on the things we do accept as scriptural. Paul and the leaders of the Apostolic Church had a lot to say about works, standards, morals and the like. In fact, like Jesus, every other sentence focussed upon their "belief system" requirement.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 19, 2014 3:26:23 GMT -5
Here are some to add to your list Bert: Women have to wear their hair in a Bun Women cannot cut their hair Women cannot wear make-up Women cannot wear jewellery Women have to look to the women workers for their example of how to dress That's good - pretty well covered by Paul and Peter, actually. Let's keep going
Women professing Godliness should also not wear tatts not do studs not do ear piercing not do dope not do meth not do ice not do crack not sleep with men other than their husbands not abuse their kids not spit in public not shave their heads not disobey traffic laws not disobey tax laws not disobey civil laws not disobey criminal laws
... I tell you, a woman heeding all these laws might end up in a mental institution - but then again, maybe she wont'Bert you didn't answer my question.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 19, 2014 3:27:18 GMT -5
Here are some to add to your list Bert: Women have to wear their hair in a Bun Women cannot cut their hair Women cannot wear make-up Women cannot wear jewellery Women have to look to the women workers for their example of how to dress That's good - pretty well covered by Paul and Peter, actually. Let's keep going
Women professing Godliness should also not wear tatts not do studs not do ear piercing not do dope not do meth not do ice not do crack not sleep with men other than their husbands not abuse their kids not spit in public not shave their heads not disobey traffic laws not disobey tax laws not disobey civil laws not disobey criminal laws
... I tell you, a woman heeding all these laws might end up in a mental institution - but then again, maybe she wont'Where did Paul say that Women must dress like the sister workers Bert ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 19, 2014 3:34:39 GMT -5
Let's first agree on the things we do accept as scriptural. Paul and the leaders of the Apostolic Church had a lot to say about works, standards, morals and the like. In fact, like Jesus, every other sentence focussed upon their "belief system" requirement.
Good point Bert, lets start with the things that are scriptural. 1. Chapter & verse that says : women must dress like the sister workers 2. Chapter & verse that says; Women must wear their hair in a BUN ? 3. Where is denim material mentioned or that denim skirts cannot be worn ? There is a start for you Bert ! As to mental illness from work based belief system, you only have to look at the amount of workers that have nerve issues to answer the question !
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 4:48:30 GMT -5
Yeah, well I know of a few people who did most of what you are suggesting and still ended up miserable and mad as hell. Some found rest for their bodies in their graves, but I am not so sure that they found rest for their souls. My uncle on the maternal side of my family and his drinking buddies were like that. They were free from the shackles of the religious belief system alright. Some people live in the fast lane, die quick and get a pretty casket. For the record, not everyone who doesn't believe in the Christian God is an alcoholic. Matt10 I am well aware of that, but it is one example that goes contrary to what you have stated, your suggestion is not a perfect answer either. That all I was trying to point out.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 6:13:14 GMT -5
Quote - "Where did Paul say that Women must dress like the sister workers Bert?"
Excellent point. Where does it say a person "Professing Godliness" should not do narcotics? It doesn't, but even the most cursory reading of scripture gives you a sense for what the requirements of the Kingdom are.
There are many places where "works based belief" mention our appearance. The most commonly quoted one is this:
"... women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works"
New Living Translation "And I want women to be modest in their appearance. They should wear decent and appropriate clothing and not draw attention to themselves by the way they fix their hair or by wearing gold or pearls or expensive clothes. For women who claim to be devoted to God should make themselves attractive by the good things they do."
These both read that women should focus upon "works based belief" and not dress like ungodly people. The very opposite of what this thread was created to achieve.
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Post by fred on Nov 19, 2014 6:24:33 GMT -5
What a great quote..........
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 6:44:20 GMT -5
What a great quote.......... Yes, and straight out of William Irvine's bible! ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 9:12:37 GMT -5
Just out of interest , I visited the site : open bible.info, and noticed that they are 88 Bible verses about Women Dressing. There must be something very spiritually significantly and important with respect to this subject.
ps. Diverting a bit, I just read that the Anglican church leaders have just voted to appoint female Bishops; and it is predicted that the first one will be ordained next year.
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Post by emerald on Nov 19, 2014 10:33:12 GMT -5
Just out of interest , I visited the site : open bible.info, and noticed that they are 88 Bible verses about Women Dressing. There must be something very spiritually significantly and important with respect to this subject. ps. Diverting a bit, I just read that the Anglican church leaders have just voted to appoint female Bishops; and it is predicted that the first one will be ordained next year. There's already a woman bishop in the Anglican church, Pat Storey. She was ordained late last year. She's bishop of Meath and Kildare.
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Post by snow on Nov 19, 2014 13:18:48 GMT -5
For the record, not everyone who doesn't believe in the Christian God is an alcoholic. Matt10 So true Matt, also a lot of people that DO believe in the Christian God ARE alcoholics . It would drive me to drink... ha all that cognitive dissonance.
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Post by snow on Nov 19, 2014 13:24:33 GMT -5
I know the easy thing to do is rip the beliefs or un-beliefs of anyone who doesn't think like you do. But looking objectively, I think we can say there are plenty of nonbelievers and believers (including professing people!) that are at peace with themselves. There are also plenty of people in each group that suffer mental anguish, sometimes due to their belief or unbelief, but often due to other external influences or internal imbalances. I guess you should just do and believe whatever brings you peace. I know many professing people that are at ease with their beliefs and very much in a good mental state. They also usually have pretty good "natural" lives because they refrain from many vices that can bring a person or a family down. Just wanted to defend them a little bit even though my beliefs have splintered from the hardline professing beliefs, that most of "the friends" are not these mentally ill cult-like enemies of society that they get portrayed as by some on here. I agree with this. It takes different things to bring people peace. For me, peace comes without a God. For others, peace comes with a God. It's when we are forced to be in a group that we don't fit that we find peace evades us. Live and let live. God is not necessary for everyone and entirely necessary for some.
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Post by bitterbetty on Nov 19, 2014 13:28:04 GMT -5
Trying to be perfect, coming up short and beating oneself up about it isn't good for one's mental condition. I have been there and done that-let me tell you it isn't easy. MY YOKE IS EASY, MY BURDEN IS LIGHT said our Master. 1 John 5vs3- For this is the Love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 14:47:07 GMT -5
Trying to be perfect, coming up short and beating oneself up about it isn't good for one's mental condition. I have been there and done that-let me tell you it isn't easy. MY YOKE IS EASY, MY BURDEN IS LIGHT said our Master. 1 John 5vs3- For this is the Love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous. Remember where it reads, "Obey those who have the rule over you" ?? God's way is grievous to those who don't love the way.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 16:10:03 GMT -5
Just out of interest , I visited the site : open bible.info, and noticed that they are 88 Bible verses about Women Dressing. There must be something very spiritually significantly and important with respect to this subject. ps. Diverting a bit, I just read that the Anglican church leaders have just voted to appoint female Bishops; and it is predicted that the first one will be ordained next year. There's already a woman bishop in the Anglican church, Pat Storey. She was ordained late last year. She's bishop of Meath and Kildare. Ok, maybe the reference pertains to England, Kildare, I believe is in Scotland???
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 16:22:02 GMT -5
There's already a woman bishop in the Anglican church, Pat Storey. She was ordained late last year. She's bishop of Meath and Kildare. Ok, maybe the reference pertains to England, Kildare, I believe is in Scotland??? Ireland!!
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Post by emerald on Nov 19, 2014 16:42:58 GMT -5
Ok, maybe the reference pertains to England, Kildare, I believe is in Scotland??? Ireland!! I believe partaker has muddled Kildare with Kilsyth. :-)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 17:03:40 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 17:10:23 GMT -5
Ok , I stand corrected, I have lived in England for many years but my geography is not all that good, actually, apart from England I have only ever visited Wales when I drove a car from East London to Barry Docks in Wales Via the Severn bridge. That was a bit scary because I drove through the night and many area of the motorway were unlit and in total darkness apart from the head lights of the car. What an experienced!!
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Post by tom on Nov 19, 2014 17:49:09 GMT -5
Let's first agree on the things we do accept as scriptural. Paul and the leaders of the Apostolic Church had a lot to say about works, standards, morals and the like. In fact, like Jesus, every other sentence focussed upon their "belief system" requirement.
Good point Bert, lets start with the things that are scriptural. 1. Chapter & verse that says : women must dress like the sister workers 2. Chapter & verse that says; Women must wear their hair in a BUN ? 3. Where is denim material mentioned or that denim skirts cannot be worn ? There is a start for you Bert ! As to mental illness from work based belief system, you only have to look at the amount of workers that have nerve issues to answer the question ! I'm not Bert but whoever said that women should/should not do any if these 3 things? I have never heard that preached. Where do you get these ideas from? Dress modestly -yes.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 19, 2014 17:52:41 GMT -5
Good point Bert, lets start with the things that are scriptural. 1. Chapter & verse that says : women must dress like the sister workers 2. Chapter & verse that says; Women must wear their hair in a BUN ? 3. Where is denim material mentioned or that denim skirts cannot be worn ? There is a start for you Bert ! As to mental illness from work based belief system, you only have to look at the amount of workers that have nerve issues to answer the question ! I'm not Bert but whoever said that women should/should not do any if these 3 things? I have never heard that preached. Where do you get these ideas from? Dress modestly -yes. Tom, where do you live ? Would you like me to post some notes where workers have spoke on these things?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 19, 2014 18:08:36 GMT -5
Quote - "Where did Paul say that Women must dress like the sister workers Bert?"Excellent point. Where does it say a person " Professing Godliness" should not do narcotics? It doesn't, but even the most cursory reading of scripture gives you a sense for what the requirements of the Kingdom are. There are many places where " works based belief" mention our appearance. The most commonly quoted one is this: "... women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works" New Living Translation "And I want women to be modest in their appearance. They should wear decent and appropriate clothing and not draw attention to themselves by the way they fix their hair or by wearing gold or pearls or expensive clothes. For women who claim to be devoted to God should make themselves attractive by the good things they do." These both read that women should focus upon " works based belief" and not dress like ungodly people. The very opposite of what this thread was created to achieve. Bert, what was modest apparel in Paul's day? Also you have not given me the Chapter & verse where it says women must dress like the sister workers, because there is no such verse ! But how many times over the years has it been preached ? Therefore it is a man-made rule. Do you honestly think that God is going to say "Well you are going to hell because you smoke" ! This is an example of what causes Mental Illness, people try to be follow man-made rules, they take priority over more important things like people abusing children. Lets keep focusing on the rules so then we don't have to look at the major issues like CSA !
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 19, 2014 18:12:24 GMT -5
Tom, where do you live ? Would you like me to post some notes where workers have spoke on these things? And now I'm not Tom, but I've never heard any specifics like that either, other than modesty (which everyone has their own definition for). Post notes if you wish, but I'll take your word for it, I'm just curious where and what year you heard any or all of those 3 specific things preached. I live in Midwest of U.S. and haven't heard any of that in the 20+ years that I can remember. I am in Australia, 5th generation of 6 that have gone to meetings. In the 70's if a girl wore a denim skirt to set table's at convention she would be told to go & change! If her hair was not in a BUN they were not allowed to set tables !
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 19, 2014 18:22:21 GMT -5
Ken Pagington - Denbar - September 11, 1996
Beware of the leaven of Herod. Herod was a prince of this world, this social set. It is so easy for worldly things to creep into our lives, into our homes, if we are not careful. In Madagascar, there was a rich lady that professed and her home was about the only one suitable for fellowship meetings. The problem was she also had a television set. When we asked her about the meeting and told her about the TV, she just said "What's stopping you from taking down the aerial?" and sold her TV too. Something else that takes away our time is computers. All kinds of programs are available and some young people get hooked on them, same way as being hooked on TV. Be careful about the way young people use computers.
Appearance. Another sign of Herod's leaven is Fashion. Fashions change and hardly ever last longer than some years. There is no change of standard in God's kingdom; modesty and moderation. Obviously, one would dress differently on the beach but one can always stay modest. In Madagascar, the first lady who ever professed was my language teacher. When Lucie professed her dresses were okay, but not what we like. One day I got a picture from her to send to friends. It was an old picture, and I got a felt tip pen, lowered the dress and asked a photographer if it's okay to take a new photo of the picture. I showed Lucie, and within two weeks all her dresses were long.
Hair. Sometimes we see hair cut shoulder length, sometimes cut short. The Bible teaches us that sisters serving the LORD should have long hair, as a sign of submission. Jesus was begotten of the Father, everything else was created. There was an order, the angels were put into position of power and man below the angels. Unisex fashion is contrary to GOD'S order. Some angels also rebelled against the order of GOD and broke away. When women grow their hair long, they show they are willing to fit into GOD's order of creation. When they start cutting it, they show they are not willing to fit in. I visited a home once with four daughters, teenagers. Two of them set a good example, no trousers, hair okay. We asked the two if they get much reproach at school and they said, “Yes; but what hurts is the reproach we get from the other professing girls.” Some might think uncle Ken is a bit of a Fuddy-Duddy. People should not be careless in dressing. On a very hot day in Madagascar, I wore just open sandals, pants and an open necked bush shirt. At the post office, I met an American lady who could not speak the language, and I helped her. She asked me what I was doing and when I told her I was a missionary, she said, "Well, you are the swingiest missionary that I have ever seen
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Post by emy on Nov 19, 2014 18:22:44 GMT -5
Bert, what was modest apparel in Paul's day? Also you have not given me the Chapter & verse where it says women must dress like the sister workers, because there is no such verse ! But how many times over the years has it been preached ? Therefore it is a man-made rule. Do you honestly think that God is going to say "Well you are going to hell because you smoke" ! This is an example of what causes Mental Illness, people try to be follow man-made rules, they take priority over more important things like people abusing children. Lets keep focusing on the rules so then we don't have to look at the major issues like CSA ! Is a suggestion a command? (re: MUST) Only time I've heard a worker say it's necessary to put your hair up was when we were getting waitress instruction at convention, which would be a hygiene issue. And that was more than 50 years ago. Are denim skirts STILL not allowed in Oz? They are worn everywhere, including meeting, here.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 19, 2014 18:25:43 GMT -5
Emy, denim skirts are the NORM now ! So what changed ? Mans ideas maybe !
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