Post by CherieKropp on Nov 15, 2014 23:14:57 GMT -5
It was March 3, 1924 that there was a Total, Complete Separation, Excommunication and Renunciation of all ties to and with Wm Irvine.
Alarmed that "we have come in contact with a number lately, who have got mixed up in this terrible affair of yours—those of them, not a few," Edward Cooney, along with George Walker, Jack Carroll and Willie Gill, wrote a letter to Irvine in which they completely separated Wm Irvine from themselves. Cooney signed the letter: "Yours in Adam" (rather than "Yours in Christ.") He stated: "We have agreed that this deadly doctrine of yours must be completely stamped out that the whole family of God’s faithful people perish not as the result of the awful leaven permeating the whole body."
"Well, seeing brother, (in Adam) that things have reached such a crisis, we consider it incumbent upon us not to put you to death, as we do not believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth; but we feel it is our duty in the sight of God, as faithful stewards over His household, to protect the sheep of his pasture; so we regret to say, even weeping, that we must give you in charge on the ground that you are a lawbreaker and a mover of sedition amongst the people; also that you use witchcraft, sorcery, hypnotism, etc., in order to put people out of their minds; some call it mesmerism. Many who come under your spell, are sad to say, never the same again as they were before. We believe in Jesus as the Way, Truth and Life, and He is the same yesterday, today and forever, and His way has never changed. The way is so plain that even a child cannot err therein. [NOTE: The phrase "we must give you in charge on the ground that" is a legal term meaning, "we must charge you on the ground that..."]
"Now dear brother, we hope you will not have any hard feelings towards us, as we still have your welfare at heart, and we feel that the Lord has compelled us to do as we do. If you should care to make any statements to us we would be only too glad to hear you, or in the event of your being willing to repent, and take your place with us (not over us) again we might consider extending to you the right hand of fellowship; though you have not stuck to your guns like us; but never mind Wm. God will abundantly pardon." (Ed Cooney's March 3, 1924 Letter to Irvine)
Read also Irvine's reply to Ed Cooney's July 8, 1924 letter.
I do not believe these letters were forgeries; however, Patricia Roberts felt differently...
The late Patricia Roberts is hands down, THE acknowledged expert on Edward Cooney. She wrote four books about him and the Cooneyites, of which she was a member. She wrote her opinion regarding the above letter purportedly written by Cooney in a letter to Cherie Kropp dated August 26, 1997:
"This letter you sent me which claims to be from Edward Cooney is undoubtedly a forgery. It was never composed by him. It is totally out of character with Edward's spirit, attitude and style. "Irvine, himself, obviously didn't believe it came from Edward for he says in his letter to Edward: "I had what is said to be, a copy of a letter sent to Ethel McFarland without date or address. If such letter exists in your handwriting, it must come on to me." Irvine had obviously never received such a letter in Edward's handwriting.
"May I point out that by 1924 E.C. was practically outside the fellowship himself and would therefore have been in no position to excommunicate anyone else. But he never did excommunicate anyone, nor did he ever want to, for he believed that only God could cut off branches from the Vine. Plans were being made from 1914 onward to excommunicate E.C. "(See p. 15ff of Selected Letters of E.C.) And although he could not agree with the strange and erroneous ideas that W.I. came to espouse, he treated him with compassion and did all he could to restore him to what he once was but without success." (See Selected Letters of Edward Cooney p15, p21, 28, 43, 88. See also Life & Ministry of Edward Cooney. p. 114.)
Read more in Chapter 14
On April or September, 1913, Irvine was told he would have to step down and be an ordinary worker if he wanted to remain in the fellowship. But according to the above letter, he was not totally excommunicated until March 1924. During WWI after he stepped down in 1914, he remained in America, at least part of the time in California, and from his critical comments, appears to have attended some meetings and may have spoken at a a/few conventions. See Notes of a sermon in 1917.
Alarmed that "we have come in contact with a number lately, who have got mixed up in this terrible affair of yours—those of them, not a few," Edward Cooney, along with George Walker, Jack Carroll and Willie Gill, wrote a letter to Irvine in which they completely separated Wm Irvine from themselves. Cooney signed the letter: "Yours in Adam" (rather than "Yours in Christ.") He stated: "We have agreed that this deadly doctrine of yours must be completely stamped out that the whole family of God’s faithful people perish not as the result of the awful leaven permeating the whole body."
"Well, seeing brother, (in Adam) that things have reached such a crisis, we consider it incumbent upon us not to put you to death, as we do not believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth; but we feel it is our duty in the sight of God, as faithful stewards over His household, to protect the sheep of his pasture; so we regret to say, even weeping, that we must give you in charge on the ground that you are a lawbreaker and a mover of sedition amongst the people; also that you use witchcraft, sorcery, hypnotism, etc., in order to put people out of their minds; some call it mesmerism. Many who come under your spell, are sad to say, never the same again as they were before. We believe in Jesus as the Way, Truth and Life, and He is the same yesterday, today and forever, and His way has never changed. The way is so plain that even a child cannot err therein. [NOTE: The phrase "we must give you in charge on the ground that" is a legal term meaning, "we must charge you on the ground that..."]
"Now dear brother, we hope you will not have any hard feelings towards us, as we still have your welfare at heart, and we feel that the Lord has compelled us to do as we do. If you should care to make any statements to us we would be only too glad to hear you, or in the event of your being willing to repent, and take your place with us (not over us) again we might consider extending to you the right hand of fellowship; though you have not stuck to your guns like us; but never mind Wm. God will abundantly pardon." (Ed Cooney's March 3, 1924 Letter to Irvine)
Read also Irvine's reply to Ed Cooney's July 8, 1924 letter.
I do not believe these letters were forgeries; however, Patricia Roberts felt differently...
The late Patricia Roberts is hands down, THE acknowledged expert on Edward Cooney. She wrote four books about him and the Cooneyites, of which she was a member. She wrote her opinion regarding the above letter purportedly written by Cooney in a letter to Cherie Kropp dated August 26, 1997:
"This letter you sent me which claims to be from Edward Cooney is undoubtedly a forgery. It was never composed by him. It is totally out of character with Edward's spirit, attitude and style. "Irvine, himself, obviously didn't believe it came from Edward for he says in his letter to Edward: "I had what is said to be, a copy of a letter sent to Ethel McFarland without date or address. If such letter exists in your handwriting, it must come on to me." Irvine had obviously never received such a letter in Edward's handwriting.
"May I point out that by 1924 E.C. was practically outside the fellowship himself and would therefore have been in no position to excommunicate anyone else. But he never did excommunicate anyone, nor did he ever want to, for he believed that only God could cut off branches from the Vine. Plans were being made from 1914 onward to excommunicate E.C. "(See p. 15ff of Selected Letters of E.C.) And although he could not agree with the strange and erroneous ideas that W.I. came to espouse, he treated him with compassion and did all he could to restore him to what he once was but without success." (See Selected Letters of Edward Cooney p15, p21, 28, 43, 88. See also Life & Ministry of Edward Cooney. p. 114.)
Read more in Chapter 14
On April or September, 1913, Irvine was told he would have to step down and be an ordinary worker if he wanted to remain in the fellowship. But according to the above letter, he was not totally excommunicated until March 1924. During WWI after he stepped down in 1914, he remained in America, at least part of the time in California, and from his critical comments, appears to have attended some meetings and may have spoken at a a/few conventions. See Notes of a sermon in 1917.