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Post by déjà vu on Nov 15, 2014 20:14:30 GMT -5
About one dozen families who recently immigrated to Canada are demanding that the Louis Riel School Division in Winnipeg excuse their children from music and co-ed physical education programs for religious reasons. The families believe music is un-Islamic ~ just like the Taliban believe and then imposed on the entire population of Afghanistan and that physical education classes should be segregated by gender even in the elementary years.
The school division is facing the music in a typically Canadian way - that is, bending itself into a trombone to try to accommodate these demands, even though in Manitoba, and indeed the rest of the country, music and phys-ed are compulsory parts of the curriculum. Officials say they may try to have the Muslim children do a writing project on music to satisfy the curriculum's requirements. The school officials have apparently consulted the Manitoba Human Rights Commission, and they have also spoken to a member of the Islamic community suggested by those very same Muslim parents. In any event, the school district is trying to find a way to adapt the curriculum to fit the wishes of these families, rather than these families adapting to fit into the school and Canadian culture.
Mahfooz Kanwar, a member of the Muslim Canadian Congress, says he has a better idea. "I'd tell them, this is Canada, and in Canada, we teach music and physical education in our schools. If you don't like it, go back to the country you came from or go to another hellhole country that lives under sharia law," said Kanwar, who is a professor emeritus of sociology at Mount Royal University in Calgary.
That might be putting things a little more forcefully than most of us would be comfortable with, but Kanwar says he is tired of hearing about such out-of-tune demands from newcomers to our country. "Immigrants to Canada should adjust to Canada, not the other way around," he argues. If they did not like these things in Canada, why did they not go somewhere else? If they want Canada to be like their homeland why don't they go home?
Kanwar, who immigrated to Canada from Pakistan via England and then the United States in 1966, says he used to buy into the "mosaic, official multiculturalism" (nonsense). He makes it clear, that like most Canadians, he is pleased and enjoys that Canada has citizens literally from every country and corner in the world, as it has enriched this country immensely. But it's official multiculturalism - the state policy "that entrenches the lie" that all cultures and beliefs are of equal value and of equal validity in Canada that he objects to. "The fact is, Canada has an enviable culture based on Judeo-Christian values - not Muslim values - with British and French rule of law and traditions and that's why it's better than all of the other places in the world. We are heading down a dangerous path if we allow the idea of sharia law a place in Canada. It does not. It is completely incompatible with the idea and reality of Canada," says Kanwar, who in the 1970s was the founder and president of the Pakistan-Canada Association and a big fan of official multiculturalism.
Kanwar says his views changed when he started listening to the people who joined his group. They badmouthed Canada, weren't interested in knowing Canadians or even in learning one of our official languages. They created cultural ghettos and the Canadian government even helped fund it. "One day it dawned on me that the reason all of us wanted to move here was going to disappear if we didn't start defending Canada and its fundamental values." That's when Kanwar started speaking out against the dangers of official multiculturalism. He has been doing so for decades. So, it's no surprise that Kanwar is delighted with the recent speech British Prime Minister David Cameron delivered to the 47th Munich Security Conference on Feb. 5.
"Under the doctrine of state multiculturalism," said Cameron, "we have failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values. So when a white person holds objectionable views - racism, for example - we rightly condemn them. But when equally unacceptable views or practices have come from someone who isn't white, we've been too cautious, frankly even fearful, to stand up to them.
This hands-off tolerance," said Cameron, "has only served to reinforce the sense that not enough is shared. All this leaves some young Muslims feeling rootless and ... can lead them to this extremist ideology."
Kanwar actually credits German Chancellor Angela Merkel for being among the first of the world's democratic leaders to take the courageous step in October to say that official multiculturalism had "failed totally.." It appears leaders are getting bolder. During an interview with TFI channel, then French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared: "We have been too concerned about the identity of the person who was arriving and not enough about the identity of the country that was receiving him." Cameron ended his speech by saying: "At stake are not just lives, it's our way of life.That's why this is a challenge we cannot avoid - and one we must meet."
That democratically elected leaders are at long last starting to sing a different tune on official multiculturalism is sweet music to Kanwar. Here's hoping those poor kids in Winnipeg will get to hear some of it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 20:19:44 GMT -5
too little too late...
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Post by emy on Nov 15, 2014 21:18:12 GMT -5
About one dozen families who recently immigrated to Canada are demanding that the Louis Riel School Division in Winnipeg excuse their children from music and co-ed physical education programs for religious reasons. The families believe music is un-Islamic ~ just like the Taliban believe and then imposed on the entire population of Afghanistan and that physical education classes should be segregated by gender even in the elementary years. The school division is facing the music in a typically Canadian way - that is, bending itself into a trombone to try to accommodate these demands, even though in Manitoba, and indeed the rest of the country, music and phys-ed are compulsory parts of the curriculum. Officials say they may try to have the Muslim children do a writing project on music to satisfy the curriculum's requirements. The school officials have apparently consulted the Manitoba Human Rights Commission, and they have also spoken to a member of the Islamic community suggested by those very same Muslim parents. In any event, the school district is trying to find a way to adapt the curriculum to fit the wishes of these families, rather than these families adapting to fit into the school and Canadian culture. Mahfooz Kanwar, a member of the Muslim Canadian Congress, says he has a better idea. "I'd tell them, this is Canada, and in Canada, we teach music and physical education in our schools. If you don't like it, go back to the country you came from or go to another hellhole country that lives under sharia law," said Kanwar, who is a professor emeritus of sociology at Mount Royal University in Calgary. That might be putting things a little more forcefully than most of us would be comfortable with, but Kanwar says he is tired of hearing about such out-of-tune demands from newcomers to our country. "Immigrants to Canada should adjust to Canada, not the other way around," he argues. If they did not like these things in Canada, why did they not go somewhere else? If they want Canada to be like their homeland why don't they go home? Kanwar, who immigrated to Canada from Pakistan via England and then the United States in 1966, says he used to buy into the "mosaic, official multiculturalism" (nonsense). He makes it clear, that like most Canadians, he is pleased and enjoys that Canada has citizens literally from every country and corner in the world, as it has enriched this country immensely. But it's official multiculturalism - the state policy "that entrenches the lie" that all cultures and beliefs are of equal value and of equal validity in Canada that he objects to. "The fact is, Canada has an enviable culture based on Judeo-Christian values - not Muslim values - with British and French rule of law and traditions and that's why it's better than all of the other places in the world. We are heading down a dangerous path if we allow the idea of sharia law a place in Canada. It does not. It is completely incompatible with the idea and reality of Canada," says Kanwar, who in the 1970s was the founder and president of the Pakistan-Canada Association and a big fan of official multiculturalism. Kanwar says his views changed when he started listening to the people who joined his group. They badmouthed Canada, weren't interested in knowing Canadians or even in learning one of our official languages. They created cultural ghettos and the Canadian government even helped fund it. "One day it dawned on me that the reason all of us wanted to move here was going to disappear if we didn't start defending Canada and its fundamental values." That's when Kanwar started speaking out against the dangers of official multiculturalism. He has been doing so for decades. So, it's no surprise that Kanwar is delighted with the recent speech British Prime Minister David Cameron delivered to the 47th Munich Security Conference on Feb. 5. "Under the doctrine of state multiculturalism," said Cameron, "we have failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values. So when a white person holds objectionable views - racism, for example - we rightly condemn them. But when equally unacceptable views or practices have come from someone who isn't white, we've been too cautious, frankly even fearful, to stand up to them. This hands-off tolerance," said Cameron, "has only served to reinforce the sense that not enough is shared. All this leaves some young Muslims feeling rootless and ... can lead them to this extremist ideology." Kanwar actually credits German Chancellor Angela Merkel for being among the first of the world's democratic leaders to take the courageous step in October to say that official multiculturalism had "failed totally.." It appears leaders are getting bolder. During an interview with TFI channel, then French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared: "We have been too concerned about the identity of the person who was arriving and not enough about the identity of the country that was receiving him." Cameron ended his speech by saying: "At stake are not just lives, it's our way of life.That's why this is a challenge we cannot avoid - and one we must meet." That democratically elected leaders are at long last starting to sing a different tune on official multiculturalism is sweet music to Kanwar. Here's hoping those poor kids in Winnipeg will get to hear some of it. Hear, hear! I wonder if Canada can make it stick when they have the precedent of French Quebec, but at any rate, the US and other countries should take lessons!
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 15, 2014 22:12:32 GMT -5
About one dozen families who recently immigrated to Canada are demanding that the Louis Riel School Division in Winnipeg excuse their children from music and co-ed physical education programs for religious reasons. The families believe music is un-Islamic ~ just like the Taliban believe and then imposed on the entire population of Afghanistan and that physical education classes should be segregated by gender even in the elementary years. The school division is facing the music in a typically Canadian way - that is, bending itself into a trombone to try to accommodate these demands, even though in Manitoba, and indeed the rest of the country, music and phys-ed are compulsory parts of the curriculum. Officials say they may try to have the Muslim children do a writing project on music to satisfy the curriculum's requirements. The school officials have apparently consulted the Manitoba Human Rights Commission, and they have also spoken to a member of the Islamic community suggested by those very same Muslim parents. In any event, the school district is trying to find a way to adapt the curriculum to fit the wishes of these families, rather than these families adapting to fit into the school and Canadian culture. Mahfooz Kanwar, a member of the Muslim Canadian Congress, says he has a better idea. "I'd tell them, this is Canada, and in Canada, we teach music and physical education in our schools. If you don't like it, go back to the country you came from or go to another hellhole country that lives under sharia law," said Kanwar, who is a professor emeritus of sociology at Mount Royal University in Calgary. That might be putting things a little more forcefully than most of us would be comfortable with, but Kanwar says he is tired of hearing about such out-of-tune demands from newcomers to our country. "Immigrants to Canada should adjust to Canada, not the other way around," he argues. If they did not like these things in Canada, why did they not go somewhere else? If they want Canada to be like their homeland why don't they go home? Kanwar, who immigrated to Canada from Pakistan via England and then the United States in 1966, says he used to buy into the "mosaic, official multiculturalism" (nonsense). He makes it clear, that like most Canadians, he is pleased and enjoys that Canada has citizens literally from every country and corner in the world, as it has enriched this country immensely. But it's official multiculturalism - the state policy "that entrenches the lie" that all cultures and beliefs are of equal value and of equal validity in Canada that he objects to. "The fact is, Canada has an enviable culture based on Judeo-Christian values - not Muslim values - with British and French rule of law and traditions and that's why it's better than all of the other places in the world. We are heading down a dangerous path if we allow the idea of sharia law a place in Canada. It does not. It is completely incompatible with the idea and reality of Canada," says Kanwar, who in the 1970s was the founder and president of the Pakistan-Canada Association and a big fan of official multiculturalism. Kanwar says his views changed when he started listening to the people who joined his group. They badmouthed Canada, weren't interested in knowing Canadians or even in learning one of our official languages. They created cultural ghettos and the Canadian government even helped fund it. "One day it dawned on me that the reason all of us wanted to move here was going to disappear if we didn't start defending Canada and its fundamental values." That's when Kanwar started speaking out against the dangers of official multiculturalism. He has been doing so for decades. So, it's no surprise that Kanwar is delighted with the recent speech British Prime Minister David Cameron delivered to the 47th Munich Security Conference on Feb. 5. "Under the doctrine of state multiculturalism," said Cameron, "we have failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values. So when a white person holds objectionable views - racism, for example - we rightly condemn them. But when equally unacceptable views or practices have come from someone who isn't white, we've been too cautious, frankly even fearful, to stand up to them. This hands-off tolerance," said Cameron, "has only served to reinforce the sense that not enough is shared. All this leaves some young Muslims feeling rootless and ... can lead them to this extremist ideology." Kanwar actually credits German Chancellor Angela Merkel for being among the first of the world's democratic leaders to take the courageous step in October to say that official multiculturalism had "failed totally.." It appears leaders are getting bolder. During an interview with TFI channel, then French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared: "We have been too concerned about the identity of the person who was arriving and not enough about the identity of the country that was receiving him." Cameron ended his speech by saying: "At stake are not just lives, it's our way of life.That's why this is a challenge we cannot avoid - and one we must meet." That democratically elected leaders are at long last starting to sing a different tune on official multiculturalism is sweet music to Kanwar. Here's hoping those poor kids in Winnipeg will get to hear some of it. Hear, hear! I wonder if Canada can make it stick when they have the precedent of French Quebec, but at any rate, the US and other countries should take lessons! It sounds like you didn't know that Canada was French-speaking first -- until the Americans flooded it while they were fleeing the US War for Independence. French Quebec was the original Canada, and not the only part of it that was originally French. Canada is not the USA.
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Post by emy on Nov 15, 2014 22:29:19 GMT -5
Hear, hear! I wonder if Canada can make it stick when they have the precedent of French Quebec, but at any rate, the US and other countries should take lessons! It sounds like you didn't know that Canada was French-speaking first -- until the Americans flooded it while they were fleeing the US War for Independence. French Quebec was the original Canada, and not the only part of it that was originally French. Canada is not the USA. So does that mean there is a precedent, but in reverse?
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 15, 2014 22:39:31 GMT -5
It sounds like you didn't know that Canada was French-speaking first -- until the Americans flooded it while they were fleeing the US War for Independence. French Quebec was the original Canada, and not the only part of it that was originally French. Canada is not the USA. So does that mean there is a precedent, but in reverse? Of course. Anyway, statistically ethnic minorities immigrating to Canada are normally fully assimilated by the third generation. Except when the English came.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 4:43:04 GMT -5
I wonder what thoughts go through the minds of the native Americans about multi culturalism, just wondering.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 5:41:14 GMT -5
It sounds like you didn't know that Canada was French-speaking first -- until the Americans flooded it while they were fleeing the US War for Independence. French Quebec was the original Canada, and not the only part of it that was originally French. Canada is not the USA.
Please don't overlook General Wolfe's little say in the matter....a few decades before the Yank uprising against the British.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 5:46:53 GMT -5
That democratically elected leaders are at long last starting to sing a different tune on official multiculturalism is sweet music to Kanwar. Here's hoping those poor kids in Winnipeg will get to hear some of it.
I suspect that in Europe at least, it is the quiet rebellion of the voting public which is forcing this change of opinion/direction, rather than true conviction. Recent polls show that those who have pushed for multiculturism in the past are now increasingly threatened with near extinction at their next polls. The change of heart is likely to be more one of survival than true conviction.
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Post by applesandbacon on Nov 17, 2014 11:36:03 GMT -5
About one dozen families who recently immigrated to Canada are demanding that the Louis Riel School Division in Winnipeg excuse their children from music and co-ed physical education programs for religious reasons. The families believe music is un-Islamic ~ just like the Taliban believe and then imposed on the entire population of Afghanistan and that physical education classes should be segregated by gender even in the elementary years. The school division is facing the music in a typically Canadian way - that is, bending itself into a trombone to try to accommodate these demands, even though in Manitoba, and indeed the rest of the country, music and phys-ed are compulsory parts of the curriculum. Officials say they may try to have the Muslim children do a writing project on music to satisfy the curriculum's requirements. The school officials have apparently consulted the Manitoba Human Rights Commission, and they have also spoken to a member of the Islamic community suggested by those very same Muslim parents. In any event, the school district is trying to find a way to adapt the curriculum to fit the wishes of these families, rather than these families adapting to fit into the school and Canadian culture. Mahfooz Kanwar, a member of the Muslim Canadian Congress, says he has a better idea. "I'd tell them, this is Canada, and in Canada, we teach music and physical education in our schools. If you don't like it, go back to the country you came from or go to another hellhole country that lives under sharia law," said Kanwar, who is a professor emeritus of sociology at Mount Royal University in Calgary. That might be putting things a little more forcefully than most of us would be comfortable with, but Kanwar says he is tired of hearing about such out-of-tune demands from newcomers to our country. "Immigrants to Canada should adjust to Canada, not the other way around," he argues. If they did not like these things in Canada, why did they not go somewhere else? If they want Canada to be like their homeland why don't they go home? Kanwar, who immigrated to Canada from Pakistan via England and then the United States in 1966, says he used to buy into the "mosaic, official multiculturalism" (nonsense). He makes it clear, that like most Canadians, he is pleased and enjoys that Canada has citizens literally from every country and corner in the world, as it has enriched this country immensely. But it's official multiculturalism - the state policy "that entrenches the lie" that all cultures and beliefs are of equal value and of equal validity in Canada that he objects to. "The fact is, Canada has an enviable culture based on Judeo-Christian values - not Muslim values - with British and French rule of law and traditions and that's why it's better than all of the other places in the world. We are heading down a dangerous path if we allow the idea of sharia law a place in Canada. It does not. It is completely incompatible with the idea and reality of Canada," says Kanwar, who in the 1970s was the founder and president of the Pakistan-Canada Association and a big fan of official multiculturalism. Kanwar says his views changed when he started listening to the people who joined his group. They badmouthed Canada, weren't interested in knowing Canadians or even in learning one of our official languages. They created cultural ghettos and the Canadian government even helped fund it. "One day it dawned on me that the reason all of us wanted to move here was going to disappear if we didn't start defending Canada and its fundamental values." That's when Kanwar started speaking out against the dangers of official multiculturalism. He has been doing so for decades. So, it's no surprise that Kanwar is delighted with the recent speech British Prime Minister David Cameron delivered to the 47th Munich Security Conference on Feb. 5. "Under the doctrine of state multiculturalism," said Cameron, "we have failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values. So when a white person holds objectionable views - racism, for example - we rightly condemn them. But when equally unacceptable views or practices have come from someone who isn't white, we've been too cautious, frankly even fearful, to stand up to them. This hands-off tolerance," said Cameron, "has only served to reinforce the sense that not enough is shared. All this leaves some young Muslims feeling rootless and ... can lead them to this extremist ideology." Kanwar actually credits German Chancellor Angela Merkel for being among the first of the world's democratic leaders to take the courageous step in October to say that official multiculturalism had "failed totally.." It appears leaders are getting bolder. During an interview with TFI channel, then French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared: "We have been too concerned about the identity of the person who was arriving and not enough about the identity of the country that was receiving him." Cameron ended his speech by saying: "At stake are not just lives, it's our way of life.That's why this is a challenge we cannot avoid - and one we must meet." That democratically elected leaders are at long last starting to sing a different tune on official multiculturalism is sweet music to Kanwar. Here's hoping those poor kids in Winnipeg will get to hear some of it. I don't get it...it sounds like they just want their own children excused from the music and PE classes. They're not trying to shut down music and PE for everyone else. Is that a big deal in Canada? In the US people do that all the time. They take their children out of public school entirely for religious reasons, don't vaccinate their children for religious reasons, make their children wear special hats and haircuts for religious reasons....the list goes on. My own professing grandfather demanded that his girls be excused from PE for religious reasons. He didn't believe they should ever wear pants and they couldn't participate in the class modestly wearing skirts. They were unable to graduate, but they were excused from PE. It definitely sucks, but trying to put a stop to it is a slippery slope. Have we decided that the government is better able to choose what is good for our children than we are? That's definitely a freedom many people, recent immigrants or not, are unwilling to part with.
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Post by snow on Nov 17, 2014 12:08:42 GMT -5
As far as not being part of classes are concerned, I wouldn't be too upset by it. If they don't want to take music classes, ok. If they don't want to take PE, ok. Like A&B states, they aren't trying to shut down those classes, they are just wanting to have their children opt out of them. There are a lot of fundamentalist Christians in our country that home school so that their children don't learn certain things or even to prevent them from socializing with non-Christians (my birth family does this with their kids. They don't want them taught evolution). No one is upset about that are they?(well I am, but who am I anyway). So when a Muslim wants to opt out of something it shouldn't be a big deal. If they were trying to remove these classes from the curriculum, then I would be saying no way. Surely not taking music or PE should not be a clincher for a fail. There are by far more important classes if learning is actually the goal. It is unfortunate that the children do not get to exercise or enjoy the music, but that is how religions are. They like to control, enhance suffering for the salvation of the soul and manipulate. That's what religion is. If Christians can opt out of school completely in favor or home schooling, surely we can allow Muslims to opt out of music and PE.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 14:00:51 GMT -5
This is not unusual in some places, I have worked on the Boards of Management of two Secondary Schools and we have had cases of some children in certain religious groups like the JHWs opting out of certain activities e.g. morning religious assemblys and also some sport activities. To accommodate them a member of staff had to supervise them in a classroom.
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Post by snow on Nov 17, 2014 14:36:00 GMT -5
This is not unusual in some places, I have worked on the Boards of Management of two Secondary Schools and we have had cases of some children in certain religious groups like the JHWs opting out of certain activities e.g. morning religious assemblys and also some sport activities. To accommodate them a member of staff had to supervise them in a classroom. Yes and when I was growing up I went to a public school in a rural community that could only find nuns to teach. I was not Catholic so I was allowed to opt out of prayers, and catechism for example.
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Post by fixit on Nov 17, 2014 14:38:38 GMT -5
As far as not being part of classes are concerned, I wouldn't be too upset by it. If they don't want to take music classes, ok. If they don't want to take PE, ok. Like A&B states, they aren't trying to shut down those classes, they are just wanting to have their children opt out of them. There are a lot of fundamentalist Christians in our country that home school so that their children don't learn certain things or even to prevent them from socializing with non-Christians (my birth family does this with their kids. They don't want them taught evolution). No one is upset about that are they?(well I am, but who am I anyway). So when a Muslim wants to opt out of something it shouldn't be a big deal. If they were trying to remove these classes from the curriculum, then I would be saying no way. Surely not taking music or PE should not be a clincher for a fail. There are by far more important classes if learning is actually the goal. It is unfortunate that the children do not get to exercise or enjoy the music, but that is how religions are. They like to control, enhance suffering for the salvation of the soul and manipulate. That's what religion is. If Christians can opt out of school completely in favor or home schooling, surely we can allow Muslims to opt out of music and PE. The article is not so much about opting out of classes in schools, but about Sharia law getting a foothold and turning Canada into the hell-hole that other countries have become. Sharia is incompatible with secularism.
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Post by snow on Nov 17, 2014 15:02:27 GMT -5
As far as not being part of classes are concerned, I wouldn't be too upset by it. If they don't want to take music classes, ok. If they don't want to take PE, ok. Like A&B states, they aren't trying to shut down those classes, they are just wanting to have their children opt out of them. There are a lot of fundamentalist Christians in our country that home school so that their children don't learn certain things or even to prevent them from socializing with non-Christians (my birth family does this with their kids. They don't want them taught evolution). No one is upset about that are they?(well I am, but who am I anyway). So when a Muslim wants to opt out of something it shouldn't be a big deal. If they were trying to remove these classes from the curriculum, then I would be saying no way. Surely not taking music or PE should not be a clincher for a fail. There are by far more important classes if learning is actually the goal. It is unfortunate that the children do not get to exercise or enjoy the music, but that is how religions are. They like to control, enhance suffering for the salvation of the soul and manipulate. That's what religion is. If Christians can opt out of school completely in favor or home schooling, surely we can allow Muslims to opt out of music and PE. The article is not so much about opting out of classes in schools, but about Sharia law getting a foothold and turning Canada into the hell-hole that other countries have become. Sharia is incompatible with secularism. Yes, I agree Sharia law should be avoided at all costs. But I think it's a leap to go from opting out of classes is the same thing as allowing sharia law. If I could change things I would make sure no religion had any say in laws. But religions like to get involved in secular decisions. Laws about who can marry and who can't, laws about whether or not a woman has the right to contraception or abortion. All these rights are hard fought for yet Christians don't seem to see anything wrong with trying to impose their Christian beliefs on everyone. So we have some experience keeping religions out of our laws. It's an ongoing battle though. So as far as I'm concerned, fighting Sharia law and Christians imposing their beliefs into our laws, are the same thing.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 17, 2014 15:39:41 GMT -5
It sounds like you didn't know that Canada was French-speaking first -- until the Americans flooded it while they were fleeing the US War for Independence. French Quebec was the original Canada, and not the only part of it that was originally French. Canada is not the USA.
Please don't overlook General Wolfe's little say in the matter....a few decades before the Yank uprising against the British. General Wolfe didn't have any say in the language matter. Canada remained French-speaking, with French language protections guaranteed by the British crown. Do you remember the reaction of the crown when the Americans began to purge the Canadian colonies of French-speakers by deporting them in 1775 to make way for an English-language takeover? Probably not.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 17, 2014 15:43:09 GMT -5
About one dozen families who recently immigrated to Canada are demanding that the Louis Riel School Division in Winnipeg excuse their children from music and co-ed physical education programs for religious reasons. The families believe music is un-Islamic ~ just like the Taliban believe and then imposed on the entire population of Afghanistan and that physical education classes should be segregated by gender even in the elementary years. The school division is facing the music in a typically Canadian way - that is, bending itself into a trombone to try to accommodate these demands, even though in Manitoba, and indeed the rest of the country, music and phys-ed are compulsory parts of the curriculum. Officials say they may try to have the Muslim children do a writing project on music to satisfy the curriculum's requirements. The school officials have apparently consulted the Manitoba Human Rights Commission, and they have also spoken to a member of the Islamic community suggested by those very same Muslim parents. In any event, the school district is trying to find a way to adapt the curriculum to fit the wishes of these families, rather than these families adapting to fit into the school and Canadian culture. Mahfooz Kanwar, a member of the Muslim Canadian Congress, says he has a better idea. "I'd tell them, this is Canada, and in Canada, we teach music and physical education in our schools. If you don't like it, go back to the country you came from or go to another hellhole country that lives under sharia law," said Kanwar, who is a professor emeritus of sociology at Mount Royal University in Calgary. That might be putting things a little more forcefully than most of us would be comfortable with, but Kanwar says he is tired of hearing about such out-of-tune demands from newcomers to our country. "Immigrants to Canada should adjust to Canada, not the other way around," he argues. If they did not like these things in Canada, why did they not go somewhere else? If they want Canada to be like their homeland why don't they go home? Kanwar, who immigrated to Canada from Pakistan via England and then the United States in 1966, says he used to buy into the "mosaic, official multiculturalism" (nonsense). He makes it clear, that like most Canadians, he is pleased and enjoys that Canada has citizens literally from every country and corner in the world, as it has enriched this country immensely. But it's official multiculturalism - the state policy "that entrenches the lie" that all cultures and beliefs are of equal value and of equal validity in Canada that he objects to. "The fact is, Canada has an enviable culture based on Judeo-Christian values - not Muslim values - with British and French rule of law and traditions and that's why it's better than all of the other places in the world. We are heading down a dangerous path if we allow the idea of sharia law a place in Canada. It does not. It is completely incompatible with the idea and reality of Canada," says Kanwar, who in the 1970s was the founder and president of the Pakistan-Canada Association and a big fan of official multiculturalism. Kanwar says his views changed when he started listening to the people who joined his group. They badmouthed Canada, weren't interested in knowing Canadians or even in learning one of our official languages. They created cultural ghettos and the Canadian government even helped fund it. "One day it dawned on me that the reason all of us wanted to move here was going to disappear if we didn't start defending Canada and its fundamental values." That's when Kanwar started speaking out against the dangers of official multiculturalism. He has been doing so for decades. So, it's no surprise that Kanwar is delighted with the recent speech British Prime Minister David Cameron delivered to the 47th Munich Security Conference on Feb. 5. "Under the doctrine of state multiculturalism," said Cameron, "we have failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values. So when a white person holds objectionable views - racism, for example - we rightly condemn them. But when equally unacceptable views or practices have come from someone who isn't white, we've been too cautious, frankly even fearful, to stand up to them. This hands-off tolerance," said Cameron, "has only served to reinforce the sense that not enough is shared. All this leaves some young Muslims feeling rootless and ... can lead them to this extremist ideology." Kanwar actually credits German Chancellor Angela Merkel for being among the first of the world's democratic leaders to take the courageous step in October to say that official multiculturalism had "failed totally.." It appears leaders are getting bolder. During an interview with TFI channel, then French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared: "We have been too concerned about the identity of the person who was arriving and not enough about the identity of the country that was receiving him." Cameron ended his speech by saying: "At stake are not just lives, it's our way of life.That's why this is a challenge we cannot avoid - and one we must meet." That democratically elected leaders are at long last starting to sing a different tune on official multiculturalism is sweet music to Kanwar. Here's hoping those poor kids in Winnipeg will get to hear some of it. I don't get it...it sounds like they just want their own children excused from the music and PE classes. They're not trying to shut down music and PE for everyone else. Is that a big deal in Canada? In the US people do that all the time. They take their children out of public school entirely for religious reasons, don't vaccinate their children for religious reasons, make their children wear special hats and haircuts for religious reasons....the list goes on. My own professing grandfather demanded that his girls be excused from PE for religious reasons. He didn't believe they should ever wear pants and they couldn't participate in the class modestly wearing skirts. They were unable to graduate, but they were excused from PE. It definitely sucks, but trying to put a stop to it is a slippery slope. Have we decided that the government is better able to choose what is good for our children than we are? That's definitely a freedom many people, recent immigrants or not, are unwilling to part with.
It's not a big deal in Canada. I taught in 3 provinces of Canada for 18 years -- it's not a big deal for the school system. Kids are excused from classes for religious reasons all the time. It is only a big deal to Tea Party types because at the moment everything Muslim is cancerous.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 15:47:40 GMT -5
It sounds like you didn't know that Canada was French-speaking first -- until the Americans flooded it while they were fleeing the US War for Independence. French Quebec was the original Canada, and not the only part of it that was originally French. Canada is not the USA.
Please don't overlook General Wolfe's little say in the matter....a few decades before the Yank uprising against the British. General Wolfe didn't have any say in the language matter. Canada remained French-speaking, with French language protections guaranteed by the British crown. Do you remember the reaction of the crown when the Americans began to purge the Canadian colonies of French-speakers by deporting them in 1775 to make way for an English-language takeover? Probably not.You're right Bob. My greying hair is a clear sign that the ground underneath it isn't as fertile as it once was. I can't remember anything that far back. Maybe my grandparents mentioned it, but I really don't know? My injection wasn't really about "French speaking," but rather I was miffed at Billy being left out of the proceedings.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 17, 2014 15:52:42 GMT -5
The article is not so much about opting out of classes in schools, but about Sharia law getting a foothold and turning Canada into the hell-hole that other countries have become. Anyone who thinks sharia law is going to replace secular democracy is just plain hysterical. People in Canada who have violated Canadian law in favor of Sharia law go to prison -- some of them are there for life -- if one reads the whole newspaper. This from a Muslim, who is telling other Muslims. Hysterical people -- are you listening? Or do you really believe all Muslims are liars. Do y'all vote?
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 17, 2014 15:55:55 GMT -5
General Wolfe didn't have any say in the language matter. Canada remained French-speaking, with French language protections guaranteed by the British crown. Do you remember the reaction of the crown when the Americans began to purge the Canadian colonies of French-speakers by deporting them in 1775 to make way for an English-language takeover? Probably not.You're right Bob. My greying hair is a clear sign that the ground underneath it isn't as fertile as it once was. I can't remember anything that far back. Maybe my grandparents mentioned it, but I really don't know? My injection wasn't really about "French speaking," but rather I was miffed at Billy being left out of the proceedings. Who is Billy?
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 17, 2014 16:01:47 GMT -5
About one dozen families who recently immigrated to Canada are demanding that the Louis Riel School Division in Winnipeg excuse their children from music and co-ed physical education programs for religious reasons. The families believe music is un-Islamic ~ just like the Taliban believe and then imposed on the entire population of Afghanistan and that physical education classes should be segregated by gender even in the elementary years. The school division is facing the music in a typically Canadian way - that is, bending itself into a trombone to try to accommodate these demands, even though in Manitoba, and indeed the rest of the country, music and phys-ed are compulsory parts of the curriculum. Officials say they may try to have the Muslim children do a writing project on music to satisfy the curriculum's requirements. The school officials have apparently consulted the Manitoba Human Rights Commission, and they have also spoken to a member of the Islamic community suggested by those very same Muslim parents. In any event, the school district is trying to find a way to adapt the curriculum to fit the wishes of these families, rather than these families adapting to fit into the school and Canadian culture. Mahfooz Kanwar, a member of the Muslim Canadian Congress, says he has a better idea. "I'd tell them, this is Canada, and in Canada, we teach music and physical education in our schools. If you don't like it, go back to the country you came from or go to another hellhole country that lives under sharia law," said Kanwar, who is a professor emeritus of sociology at Mount Royal University in Calgary. That might be putting things a little more forcefully than most of us would be comfortable with, but Kanwar says he is tired of hearing about such out-of-tune demands from newcomers to our country. "Immigrants to Canada should adjust to Canada, not the other way around," he argues. If they did not like these things in Canada, why did they not go somewhere else? If they want Canada to be like their homeland why don't they go home? Kanwar, who immigrated to Canada from Pakistan via England and then the United States in 1966, says he used to buy into the "mosaic, official multiculturalism" (nonsense). He makes it clear, that like most Canadians, he is pleased and enjoys that Canada has citizens literally from every country and corner in the world, as it has enriched this country immensely. But it's official multiculturalism - the state policy "that entrenches the lie" that all cultures and beliefs are of equal value and of equal validity in Canada that he objects to. "The fact is, Canada has an enviable culture based on Judeo-Christian values - not Muslim values - with British and French rule of law and traditions and that's why it's better than all of the other places in the world. We are heading down a dangerous path if we allow the idea of sharia law a place in Canada. It does not. It is completely incompatible with the idea and reality of Canada," says Kanwar, who in the 1970s was the founder and president of the Pakistan-Canada Association and a big fan of official multiculturalism. Kanwar says his views changed when he started listening to the people who joined his group. They badmouthed Canada, weren't interested in knowing Canadians or even in learning one of our official languages. They created cultural ghettos and the Canadian government even helped fund it. "One day it dawned on me that the reason all of us wanted to move here was going to disappear if we didn't start defending Canada and its fundamental values." That's when Kanwar started speaking out against the dangers of official multiculturalism. He has been doing so for decades. So, it's no surprise that Kanwar is delighted with the recent speech British Prime Minister David Cameron delivered to the 47th Munich Security Conference on Feb. 5. "Under the doctrine of state multiculturalism," said Cameron, "we have failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values. So when a white person holds objectionable views - racism, for example - we rightly condemn them. But when equally unacceptable views or practices have come from someone who isn't white, we've been too cautious, frankly even fearful, to stand up to them. This hands-off tolerance," said Cameron, "has only served to reinforce the sense that not enough is shared. All this leaves some young Muslims feeling rootless and ... can lead them to this extremist ideology." Kanwar actually credits German Chancellor Angela Merkel for being among the first of the world's democratic leaders to take the courageous step in October to say that official multiculturalism had "failed totally.." It appears leaders are getting bolder. During an interview with TFI channel, then French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared: "We have been too concerned about the identity of the person who was arriving and not enough about the identity of the country that was receiving him." Cameron ended his speech by saying: "At stake are not just lives, it's our way of life.That's why this is a challenge we cannot avoid - and one we must meet." That democratically elected leaders are at long last starting to sing a different tune on official multiculturalism is sweet music to Kanwar. Here's hoping those poor kids in Winnipeg will get to hear some of it. Multiculturalism is not official languages. Riel was not executed because he spoke French -- he was executed because he was an agitating first nation half-breed, therefore a traitor.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 16:28:02 GMT -5
You're right Bob. My greying hair is a clear sign that the ground underneath it isn't as fertile as it once was. I can't remember anything that far back. Maybe my grandparents mentioned it, but I really don't know? My injection wasn't really about "French speaking," but rather I was miffed at Billy being left out of the proceedings. Who is Billy? Another reminder of my infertile brain. I meant Jimmy! Billy didn't invade North America until much later.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 17, 2014 18:54:09 GMT -5
Another reminder of my infertile brain. I meant Jimmy! Billy didn't invade North America until much later. Ah, don't worry about your brain. The events I was talking about are not given much attention in history books, and when they are they are pretty skewed when you know the real case. The World Book Encyclopedia describes the removal of French-speaking people as something like a migration, and I don't know what is in the books in Canada about it. But until I was 40 years old I spent all my adult life working in French, and in the French-Canadian culture. Quebec (city) is 98% French-speaking, the oldest European city in North America, the only walled city in North America, and an international historic site. Some houses built in 1605 still are occupied. A wonderful city to live in.
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Post by Gene on Nov 17, 2014 19:22:51 GMT -5
Another reminder of my infertile brain. I meant Jimmy! Billy didn't invade North America until much later. Ah, don't worry about your brain. The events I was talking about are not given much attention in history books, and when they are they are pretty skewed when you know the real case. The World Book Encyclopedia describes the removal of French-speaking people as something like a migration, and I don't know what is in the books in Canada about it. But until I was 40 years old I spent all my adult life working in French, and in the French-Canadian culture. Quebec (city) is 98% French-speaking, the oldest European city in North America, the only walled city in North America, and an international historic site. Some houses built in 1605 still are occupied. A wonderful city to live in. On a side note, if you were advising an American who had never traveled to Toronto, Montreal or Quebec City, in which order would you recommend he visit them, over a three year period? (He loves old European cities, a sidewalk culture, and a pedestrian-friendly old town/ inner city.)
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Post by déjà vu on Nov 17, 2014 19:40:12 GMT -5
I would recommend 1. Quebec City 2. Montreal 3. Toronto
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 17, 2014 21:23:54 GMT -5
Ah, don't worry about your brain. The events I was talking about are not given much attention in history books, and when they are they are pretty skewed when you know the real case. The World Book Encyclopedia describes the removal of French-speaking people as something like a migration, and I don't know what is in the books in Canada about it. But until I was 40 years old I spent all my adult life working in French, and in the French-Canadian culture. Quebec (city) is 98% French-speaking, the oldest European city in North America, the only walled city in North America, and an international historic site. Some houses built in 1605 still are occupied. A wonderful city to live in. On a side note, if you were advising an American who had never traveled to Toronto, Montreal or Quebec City, in which order would you recommend he visit them, over a three year period? (He loves old European cities, a sidewalk culture, and a pedestrian-friendly old town/ inner city.) You've described Quebec City -- VERY European. And in the Old City (Vieille Ville) you'll find a lot of people who can speak English, especially in tourist season. People walk around all night. Toronto now reminds me very much of New York -- with fewer eccentrics wandering about. Montreal is the second largest French-speaking city in the world -- but it still has a half million English-speaking population. Modern French life style with lots of night-life ... apparently.
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Post by snow on Nov 17, 2014 21:34:21 GMT -5
On a side note, if you were advising an American who had never traveled to Toronto, Montreal or Quebec City, in which order would you recommend he visit them, over a three year period? (He loves old European cities, a sidewalk culture, and a pedestrian-friendly old town/ inner city.) You've described Quebec City -- VERY European. And in the Old City (Vieille Ville) you'll find a lot of people who can speak English, especially in tourist season. People walk around all night. Toronto now reminds me very much of New York -- with fewer eccentrics wandering about. Montreal is the second largest French-speaking city in the world -- but it still has a half million English-speaking population. Modern French life style with lots of night-life ... apparently. I agree, Quebec City!! Old part anyway. It is awesome Gene.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 22:28:06 GMT -5
As one friend put it, "The issue now should be the LIMITS to multi-culturalism."
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