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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 18, 2014 18:43:33 GMT -5
Subway now uses Halal Meat. Costco now selling Halal Meat=PLEASE READ YIKES! MUST READ AND HEED!!! Oh my!
How terrible!
Just One more crazy fabricated story about something that has the word "Muslim" embeded in it in order to scare everyone to discredit everything Islamic!
Halal Meat in U.S. Supermarkets?
By David Emery
Urban Legends Expert
"A viral message circulating since 2011 warns American consumers not to purchase halal-certified meat sold in U.S. supermarkets, claiming that it's processed in plants "notorious" for "filth and uncleanliness" and unfit to eat.
There is no factual basis for these claims."
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 18:54:46 GMT -5
What exactly is wrong with Halal meat, has it got something to do with the way the animals are slaughtered? Or is it taboo because it has Muslim connections/association? My wife and several of her friends buy Halal chickens from the local Supermarket, I just asked her why and she said that they look more wholesome and have a very pleasant smell.
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Post by fred on Dec 18, 2014 20:38:08 GMT -5
The meat is not more wholesome. The blood is supposed to be drained from it but the blood actually runs out of it when you get it. I have no problem with slaughtering it as that is how it was done in the old days. I remember my father chopping the heads of chickens off and headless chickens running around the yard - now hopefully things have changed for the better and he would be prosecuted today for doing that. But I do not like meat that is prayed over by Muslims facing Mecca. You ask what is wrong with their meat - I would ask what is wrong with our meat? I also prefer supermarket meat because it looks cleaner, less fat and no blood running out every where. More wholesome? more blood? !!! Many if not most abattoirs in Australia are Halal certified, and part of that deal is to employ Halal slaughtermen. After the point of slaughter ( a fairly normal procedure) the meat is treated no differently. You would not be able to discern any difference at point of purchase other than the labelling.
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Post by snow on Dec 18, 2014 21:11:52 GMT -5
Halal meat is slaughtered not shot. Is that humane? I guess cutting heads of animals is where it starts if you get what I mean. I wasn't aware that there was any difference in the types of animals that are halal and as far as I know there is not. They are the same animals, but it is in how it is killed that is different. Not only how it is killed but the person killing the meat faces mecca and says a prayer before killing it. It has been prayed over by the Muslim slaughter man. It has been happening in NZ for years probably the USA for years too. If you ring meat processing companies they say that it was too hard to keep the meats separate. I rung them about 2 years ago to check what I had heard. KFC are another one who are supposed to be using halal chickens. There is no difference in how the chickens are kept, in fact I know Muslims who are working in chicken places where they keep thousands of chickens cooped up in inhumane pens. I'm doing this off the top of my head and my own experience and have not read about it on the internet yet. Is it also humane for countries to send live animals to Saudi where lots die on the way in the boats. Very little we do regarding animals is humane.
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Post by Mary on Dec 18, 2014 21:33:07 GMT -5
Go to an halal butcher and when you bring the meat home the meat has lots of blood on it. I had to buy some from halal butchers for a person close to me for several years and I didn't like all the blood. They said that is how it is. Many Muslims if not most do not buy meat from the supermarket. They don't believe it is true halal, they buy from the halal butchers and there are a lot of them around. The meat from a halal butcher is definitely different. It is cut from the animal while you wait.
Being halal certified and employing Muslims is different from all meat now being halal. We don't have a choice. It's a case of us doing things to please them. Rather than them fitting in with us, we have to fit in with them. I have no problem with the slaughtering as that is how they did it in the old days, I have a problem with eating meat that has been prayed by Muslims facing Mecca. I prefer a choice.
I am sure if Christians wanted to pray over meat facing Jerusalem there would be an uproar. How about equality for all religions.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 18, 2014 22:05:29 GMT -5
The meat is not more wholesome. The blood is supposed to be drained from it but the blood actually runs out of it when you get it. I have no problem with slaughtering it as that is how it was done in the old days. I remember my father chopping the heads of chickens off and headless chickens running around the yard - now hopefully things have changed for the better and he would be prosecuted today for doing that. But I do not like meat that is prayed over by Muslims facing Mecca. You ask what is wrong with their meat - I would ask what is wrong with our meat? I also prefer supermarket meat because it looks cleaner, less fat and no blood running out every where. Before it was supermarket meat, it was ALL slaughterhouse meat. Supermarket is all about attractive packaging.
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Post by snow on Dec 18, 2014 22:30:15 GMT -5
Mary, I don't think it's possible for there to be equality for all religions. Not when each religion is so sure they are the right one. There will always be things that the other religion will reject. As far as I know, we still do have a choice as to what meat we want to buy so why is the sale of halal meat a problem? Personally I don't care who has prayed over my meat that I buy. It doesn't change the meat in any way. The one thing I do care about is humane treatment during life and in their death. I have a choice now so I choose that.
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Post by xna on Dec 18, 2014 22:37:59 GMT -5
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Post by fred on Dec 18, 2014 22:47:52 GMT -5
Go to an halal butcher and when you bring the meat home the meat has lots of blood on it. I had to buy some from halal butchers for a person close to me for several years and I didn't like all the blood. They said that is how it is. Many Muslims if not most do not buy meat from the supermarket. They don't believe it is true halal, they buy from the halal butchers and there are a lot of them around. The meat from a halal butcher is definitely different. It is cut from the animal while you wait. Where does an Halal butcher get his meat? Why, from a regulated, certified abattoir that employs an Halal slaughterman. There are two types of slaughter, stunned and non stunned (sheep). The animals are fully bled out as for normal slaughter and the rest of the process is the same for all carcasses. Many of the older traditional butchers will buy only carcasses while the modern method is 'carcass to carton' where the beast is broken down into primal cuts and cryovaced and packed into cartons where the shelf life for aging can be extended. Sheep and lamb is mostly received in whole carcass form as it much simpler to break down. I have no qualms about eating Halal (unless it is backyard slaughtered) - there is no practical difference.
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Post by slowtosee on Dec 18, 2014 23:14:55 GMT -5
Having grown up on a farm and been around butchering as a part of life, I remember being allowed to observe "kosher" butchering at OK Packers in winnipeg, after having hauled a load of cattle in to be butchered. I found it disturbing to watch the rabbi cut the throats of cattle in a chute with a "humbug" attached to a winch to extend their throats, and watching the long knife slit the throat and watching the eyes, yes the eyes, of the animal, did not endear me to the rabbi or to think that this was OK Packers. The person riding with me observing the process was shaking with anger, we needed to leave. Stunning them first is definitely more humane Alvin
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Post by Gene on Dec 19, 2014 11:58:48 GMT -5
Go to an halal butcher and when you bring the meat home the meat has lots of blood on it. I had to buy some from halal butchers for a person close to me for several years and I didn't like all the blood. They said that is how it is. Many Muslims if not most do not buy meat from the supermarket. They don't believe it is true halal, they buy from the halal butchers and there are a lot of them around. The meat from a halal butcher is definitely different. It is cut from the animal while you wait. Being halal certified and employing Muslims is different from all meat now being halal. We don't have a choice. It's a case of us doing things to please them. Rather than them fitting in with us, we have to fit in with them. I have no problem with the slaughtering as that is how they did it in the old days, I have a problem with eating meat that has been prayed by Muslims facing Mecca. I prefer a choice. I am sure if Christians wanted to pray over meat facing Jerusalem there would be an uproar. How about equality for all religions. If you pray over it before you eat it, facing your dinner plate, doesn't that cancel out the Muslim prayer facing Mecca?
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Post by Gene on Dec 19, 2014 11:59:40 GMT -5
At Eid following Ramadan it is usually backyard slaughtered. Guess in western countries this might not be allowed but it is in the Middle East and as much as possible in western countries. A lot of the meat you eat is halal and you do not even know. The Bible says if something is sacrificed to idols and you do not know then no problem but if you do know then it is a different issue. Is Halal meat sacrificed to idols?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 19, 2014 13:05:06 GMT -5
This an excerpt from the Beef and Lamb NZ page
Is the Halal method of slaughtering animals in full compliance with animal welfare requirements in New Zealand?
In New Zealand, all commercial slaughter of livestock, including religious slaughter, must be undertaken in a humane manner in accordance with New Zealand’s animal welfare laws. These laws require animals to be ‘stunned’ immediately prior to slaughter. Stunning ensures an immediate loss of consciousness to prevent animals from feeling any pain during the slaughter process.
And another from Meat Industry association of NZ:
What are the animal welfare requirments for animal slaughter in New Zealand?
It is compulsory for all animals to be stunned before commercial slaughter in New Zealand.
Stunning ensures an immediate loss of consciousness to prevent animals from feeling any pain during the slaughter process.
The requirement for animals to be stunned prior to slaughter is contained in the Animal Welfare (Commercial Slaughter) Code of Welfare 2010, which is available on the Ministry for Primary Industries' website.
What about exemptions for halal slaughter?
In New Zealand there is no exemption to the requirement for pre-slaughter stunning, unlike in some other countries.
Halal slaughter requires that the animal dies from the “halal cut” to the throat, i.e. that the pre-slaughter stun is not powerful enough to kill the animal.
In premises that undertake halal slaughter in New Zealand, reversible electrical stunning is used to ensure that animals are rendered unconscious instantaneously and remain unconscious at the time of slaughter, thus complying with both animal welfare and halal requirements.
How much New Zealand meat is "halal", and why?
While there are no official statistics on halal production in New Zealand, nearly all of New Zealand's red meat export slaughter premises are certified to undertake slaughter in compliance with halal requirements.
This gives the New Zealand red meat industry the flexibility to export different cuts from a single carcass to the best returning markets. The industry currently serves some 120 markets worldwide.
Who decides if New Zealand meat is labelled "halal"?
There are two main reasons for New Zealand companies to obtain halal certification and labelling of meat before it is exported: 1) the importing country (typically in the Middle East and South East Asia) requires it as a compulsory market access condition, or 2) the end-customer requests it for their own commercial reasons.
In countries where halal certification and labelling is not a compulsory requirement, the decision is often the retailer's, as New Zealand meat is often not exported in ‘retail-ready' form. The final packaging is generally done by the retailer in the market.
Whatever the labelling of New Zealand lamb or beef, consumers can be assured that the animal will have been stunned before slaughter and die without pain.
I find the comments about halal meat being full of blood intriguing. I know nothing of halal slaughter but I have slaughtered a lot of animals. At no time when eating meat that I have slaughtered has there been much blood. I think that the blood pooling in the meat for want of a better term may be because the carcass has not been hung and if possible chilled. A lamb or hogget that I have slaughtered would be hung overnight and when cut up in the morning there would be virtually no blood. Maybe in some backward countries such as Angola and the USA butchery techniques are not quite up to scratch, there may be lax laws around butchering animals and so on.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 16:30:17 GMT -5
At Eid following Ramadan it is usually backyard slaughtered. Guess in western countries this might not be allowed but it is in the Middle East and as much as possible in western countries. A lot of the meat you eat is halal and you do not even know. The Bible says if something is sacrificed to idols and you do not know then no problem but if you do know then it is a different issue. your thinking of these verses? 1Co 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. 1Co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: i would concur if you eat halal meat and know it it would be wrong...
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Post by Gene on Dec 19, 2014 19:37:10 GMT -5
This an excerpt from the Beef and Lamb NZ page Is the Halal method of slaughtering animals in full compliance with animal welfare requirements in New Zealand? In New Zealand, all commercial slaughter of livestock, including religious slaughter, must be undertaken in a humane manner in accordance with New Zealand’s animal welfare laws. These laws require animals to be ‘stunned’ immediately prior to slaughter. Stunning ensures an immediate loss of consciousness to prevent animals from feeling any pain during the slaughter process. And another from Meat Industry association of NZ: What are the animal welfare requirments for animal slaughter in New Zealand? It is compulsory for all animals to be stunned before commercial slaughter in New Zealand. Stunning ensures an immediate loss of consciousness to prevent animals from feeling any pain during the slaughter process. The requirement for animals to be stunned prior to slaughter is contained in the Animal Welfare (Commercial Slaughter) Code of Welfare 2010, which is available on the Ministry for Primary Industries' website. What about exemptions for halal slaughter? In New Zealand there is no exemption to the requirement for pre-slaughter stunning, unlike in some other countries. Halal slaughter requires that the animal dies from the “halal cut” to the throat, i.e. that the pre-slaughter stun is not powerful enough to kill the animal. In premises that undertake halal slaughter in New Zealand, reversible electrical stunning is used to ensure that animals are rendered unconscious instantaneously and remain unconscious at the time of slaughter, thus complying with both animal welfare and halal requirements. How much New Zealand meat is "halal", and why? While there are no official statistics on halal production in New Zealand, nearly all of New Zealand's red meat export slaughter premises are certified to undertake slaughter in compliance with halal requirements. This gives the New Zealand red meat industry the flexibility to export different cuts from a single carcass to the best returning markets. The industry currently serves some 120 markets worldwide. Who decides if New Zealand meat is labelled "halal"? There are two main reasons for New Zealand companies to obtain halal certification and labelling of meat before it is exported: 1) the importing country (typically in the Middle East and South East Asia) requires it as a compulsory market access condition, or 2) the end-customer requests it for their own commercial reasons. In countries where halal certification and labelling is not a compulsory requirement, the decision is often the retailer's, as New Zealand meat is often not exported in ‘retail-ready' form. The final packaging is generally done by the retailer in the market. Whatever the labelling of New Zealand lamb or beef, consumers can be assured that the animal will have been stunned before slaughter and die without pain. I find the comments about halal meat being full of blood intriguing. I know nothing of halal slaughter but I have slaughtered a lot of animals. At no time when eating meat that I have slaughtered has there been much blood. I think that the blood pooling in the meat for want of a better term may be because the carcass has not been hung and if possible chilled. A lamb or hogget that I have slaughtered would be hung overnight and when cut up in the morning there would be virtually no blood. Maybe in some backward countries such as Angola and the USA butchery techniques are not quite up to scratch, there may be lax laws around butchering animals and so on. "...some backward countries such as Angola and the USA..." Haw! Love it! G
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 19, 2014 19:53:00 GMT -5
I find the comments about halal meat being full of blood intriguing. Yes especially since consumption of blood itself is forbidden in Islam. The main thing seems to be the animal must be killed with a knife to the jugular, without cutting the spinal cord. The animal must die by bleeding out. It can be stunned before its jugular is cut but the stunning cannot kill the animal. Lots here; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DhabihahWhat's also interesting about not cutting the spinal cord while alive is the fact that does not apply to a human being. With humans they can chop the whole head off right away.
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Post by Gene on Dec 19, 2014 20:00:47 GMT -5
I find the comments about halal meat being full of blood intriguing. Yes especially since consumption of blood itself is forbidden in Islam. The main thing seems to be the animal must be killed with a knife to the jugular, without cutting the spinal cord. The animal must die by bleeding out. It can be stunned before its jugular is cut but the stunning cannot kill the animal. Lots here; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DhabihahWhat's also interesting about not cutting the spinal cord while alive is the fact that does not apply to a human being. With humans they can chop the whole head off right away. Well, they're not planning to eat the human, so....
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 19, 2014 20:49:42 GMT -5
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 19, 2014 20:52:42 GMT -5
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Dec 19, 2014 20:56:54 GMT -5
I see the Muslim terrorists cut his baby in half, it doesn't say if they ate it.
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Post by xna on Dec 19, 2014 21:13:02 GMT -5
Reminds me of: 1Kings 6:28-29, 33 "So we boiled my son, and did eat him." Women killed, boiled and ate their own children because of a plague that God sent, or as the Bible puts it: "Behold, this evil is of the Lord."
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2014 21:23:06 GMT -5
Some Americans have done that too.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2014 21:23:49 GMT -5
At Eid following Ramadan it is usually backyard slaughtered. Guess in western countries this might not be allowed but it is in the Middle East and as much as possible in western countries. A lot of the meat you eat is halal and you do not even know. The Bible says if something is sacrificed to idols and you do not know then no problem but if you do know then it is a different issue. your thinking of these verses? 1Co 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. 1Co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: i would concur if you eat halal meat and know it it would be wrong... But it's okay if you don't know it's halal?
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Post by xna on Dec 19, 2014 21:24:31 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 21:56:34 GMT -5
your thinking of these verses? 1Co 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. 1Co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof: i would concur if you eat halal meat and know it it would be wrong... But it's okay if you don't know it's halal? according to the verses i quoted, yes...
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 19, 2014 21:59:29 GMT -5
But it's okay if you don't know it's halal? according to the verses i quoted, yes... So this is nothing more than a head game after all.
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Post by rational on Dec 20, 2014 4:02:40 GMT -5
Meat Industry association of NZ: What are the animal welfare requirments for animal slaughter in New Zealand? It is compulsory for all animals to be stunned before commercial slaughter in New Zealand. How is this accomplished with, for example, a lobster. Clams/oysters/snails?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 20, 2014 13:18:45 GMT -5
Crayfish (lobsters) are killed and cooked by immersing in boiling water regardless of religion (of the eater, not the lobster's religion) I think it would be the crayfish doing the praying. Shellfish are steamed open and may be dead or alive when cooked. Don't know much about snails, is there a Frenchie on here that could assist rational with a snail cooking recipe.
ps, I do not eat crayfish because of the way they are cooked.
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