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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 7:27:44 GMT -5
Has the Internet contributed to the controversy by exposing too many weaknesses in the system and in some of its members, and failures of senior personnel to correct and resolve matters transparently, decisively and satisfactorily in the interests of the spiritual welfare of its members and to the glory of the God they serve? This is not looking very good for the survival of the fellowship, as we know it, If it continues on its present course. Numbers are declining, and hearts appears to be hardening, if posts on here are an indication of feelings or anything to take serious note of.
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Post by kencoolidge on Oct 21, 2014 8:06:13 GMT -5
Has the Internet contributed to the controversy by exposing too many weaknesses in the system and in some of its members, and failures of senior personnel to correct and resolve matters transparently, decisively and satisfactorily in the interests of the spiritual welfare of its members and to the glory of the God they serve? This is not looking very good for the survival of the fellowship, as we know it, If it continues on its present course. Numbers are declining, and hearts appears to be hardening, if posts on here are an indication of feelings or anything to take serious note of. Partaker I don't believe the issue is a unique to the fellowship. The problems that leadership has created will contribute but are just one of several problems. Probably as with all denominations the main problem is self-righteousness. Religion is full of it and many are led down that path and believe they have it right. God seeks those who worship Him in SPIRIT and TRUTH. Those in the body do so! The body responds to the head's direction! ken
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Post by bubbles on Oct 21, 2014 9:04:24 GMT -5
Certainly controversial people up in arms over the way issues are handled. Rightly so too. We used to have a saying the 'Pastors' have highjacked the church and god wants his church back.
Ken Spiritual pride is one. This goes across the board. This biggest issue is the leaders finding the answer. That can only come about with facing the storm and dealing with it in a legal way primarily then after that rebuilding the broken down walls. Finding a vision. Moving forward in unity.
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Post by kencoolidge on Oct 21, 2014 10:43:47 GMT -5
Certainly controversial people up in arms over the way issues are handled. Rightly so too. We used to have a saying the 'Pastors' have highjacked the church and god wants his church back. Ken Spiritual pride is one. This goes across the board. This biggest issue is the leaders finding the answer. That can only come about with facing the storm and dealing with it in a legal way primarily then after that rebuilding the broken down walls. Finding a vision. Moving forward in unity. Bubbles Self righteousness is a common thread through religions. I too believe its a pride issue and with leadership a large touch of arrogance. I am not in anyway discouraging the friends from standing up against and facing the storm in their group. Its interesting to me that those thoughout history who stood up for what was right faced persecution. Ironical that the persecution comes from the spiritually blind leadership. ken
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 21, 2014 14:05:19 GMT -5
Has the Internet contributed to the controversy by exposing too many weaknesses in the system and in some of its members, and failures of senior personnel to correct and resolve matters transparently, decisively and satisfactorily in the interests of the spiritual welfare of its members and to the glory of the God they serve? This is not looking very good for the survival of the fellowship, as we know it, If it continues on its present course. Numbers are declining, and hearts appears to be hardening, if posts on here are an indication of feelings or anything to take serious note of. Perhaps the numbers in the TRUTH declining has more to do with "minds opening" as to how people were deceived about the beginnings of the TRUTH, rather than "hearts hardening."
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Post by bubbles on Oct 21, 2014 18:46:08 GMT -5
Has the Internet contributed to the controversy by exposing too many weaknesses in the system and in some of its members, and failures of senior personnel to correct and resolve matters transparently, decisively and satisfactorily in the interests of the spiritual welfare of its members and to the glory of the God they serve? This is not looking very good for the survival of the fellowship, as we know it, If it continues on its present course. Numbers are declining, and hearts appears to be hardening, if posts on here are an indication of feelings or anything to take serious note of. Perhaps the numbers in the TRUTH declining has more to do with "minds opening" as to how people were deceived about the beginnings of the TRUTH, rather than "hearts hardening."
I think its unfair to imply peoples hearts are hardening. We all need to hear the cry. There are many current 2x2s crying out in frustration that I can hear on this site. As I was driving this am. I was thinking about the friends how lovely some of them are and even workers. The problem isnt about the good things its about the evil thats been going on. No one likes being deceived or lied too. It hurts and its disappointing. The workers in all decency owe it to the people they lead to be straight up and honest about evil in the ranks. Honesty always pays off.
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 22, 2014 15:05:54 GMT -5
Has the Internet contributed to the controversy by exposing too many weaknesses in the system and in some of its members, and failures of senior personnel to correct and resolve matters transparently, decisively and satisfactorily in the interests of the spiritual welfare of its members and to the glory of the God they serve? This is not looking very good for the survival of the fellowship, as we know it, If it continues on its present course. Numbers are declining, and hearts appears to be hardening, if posts on here are an indication of feelings or anything to take serious note of. Like any method of communicating, I am sure that the Internet has contributed to many issues that are facing the fellowship. I have heard many stories of people spreading messages prior to the Internet as well. These are people who had concerns, and used the means at their disposal to pass on information. Of course, that once was mainly through letters being sent. I remember a guy standing near the entrance to Olympia convention holding a sign about Cooneyites back in the late 60's or early 70's. Also heard about one guy who drove his Ute onto a convention ground and used a loudspeaker to pass on his message (somewhere in Australia.... and no, I am not sure what a Ute is.... HA!) However...... now with instant messaging, it isn't just a one way conversation as when reading a letter. On another thread, there are comments about a worker in QLD who is allegedly an abuser. That message is now traveling around QLD among the friends there, and points out how senior workers allow alleged perps to continue to stay in homes of members of the church. It backs up recent information from Maja concerning how senior workers continue to allow immoral/alleged/known abusers to continue to stay in homes with unsuspecting families. Because all this information is located in here on the TMB, people start adding up the various actions/inactions of their overseers and senior workers around the world, and form their own conclusions as to whether the information is valid or not. It goes from being an individual posting about problems, to several posting about similar problems in their area of the world. And then, trust and respect for the senior workers is gone. Unfortunately, it isn't just those overseers who DON'T take action in their areas that are affected, but also those where overseers truly care for the church. The reason is simple. If the church's spiritual leaders can't be trusted in one area of the world, then that means that there is NO 'governing' board or group of overseers who deal with church-wide issues. There is no place an individual can turn to for answers other than outside of the church. It is pretty sad when members of a church don't trust their senior workers to take action to protect the church, but are seen as simply protecting their worker image. What they don't seem to understand is that the more they try to protect their image and place within the church, the less place they actually have within the church, and the fact that their image is now tarnished so badly that the only way to clean it up is to do all those things which they have resisted doing. It is sad to see how the good workers out there end up paying for those old men who are supposed to be spiritual leaders for the church.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 22, 2014 15:50:13 GMT -5
Scott I agree. Reading your post how perps continue to stay in the friends homes. Where should they stay? There are many local camp grounds here with cabins that are reasonable if they dont want the expense of a hotel.
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Post by fixit on Oct 22, 2014 15:59:18 GMT -5
Also heard about one guy who drove his Ute onto a convention ground and used a loudspeaker to pass on his message (somewhere in Australia.... and no, I am not sure what a Ute is.... HA!) An abbreviation for "utility" or "coupé utility" – is a term used originally in Australia and New Zealand to describe passenger vehicles with a cargo tray in the rear.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 22, 2014 16:16:32 GMT -5
Fixit
Yes a lot of us have had one of those.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 19:20:45 GMT -5
Yes Scott , I agree with your summation. It is true also that the Internet has enabled the news to be spread more quickly globally and not just confined locally to individual countries. So what goes on in Australia or New Zealand "down under,"reaches "up over" pretty quickly, and folks are informed and made aware of things that would have been concealed and would have escape scrutiny of the wider membership. Controversy was always there but more folks are now made aware of it more quickly and are prepared to act to challenge and seek to have it corrected.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 25, 2014 18:03:51 GMT -5
IMO the problems in this church are not yet full blown. I think it will get worse before it gets better.
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Post by fixit on Oct 25, 2014 18:25:12 GMT -5
IMO the problems in this church are not yet full blown. I think it will get worse before it gets better. I've always said it could quickly turn around for the better - if the will was there. Sadly that won't happen while the movers and shakers remain in denial. Until they wake up, good workers will continue to leave the work and good friends will continue to leave the fellowship. Anyone who dares to suggest that the good ship 2x2 is sinking is despised and rejected by system - minded people.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 13:18:18 GMT -5
IMO the problems in this church are not yet full blown. I think it will get worse before it gets better. I've always said it could quickly turn around for the better - if the will was there. Sadly that won't happen while the movers and shakers remain in denial. Until they wake up, good workers will continue to leave the work and good friends will continue to leave the fellowship. Anyone who dares to suggest that the good ship 2x2 is sinking is despised and rejected by system - minded people.
As long as people have been expelled from that fellowship, it has been losing loyal members. Some of us have needed that shove to learn where we were/are/have been in error regarding out beliefs and in whom, what we were trusting. There is no sign in either the majority of the laity nor preachers that there is even a possibility of having been/done wrongly. Until everyone wakes up making open confession of past wrongs in attempting to kill off their own wounded, it simply cannot prosper any longer as such things become wider and wider known. Fact.
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