Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 17:51:52 GMT -5
Umm hate to say this, but a whale is not a fish.... You're right Snow. Remember the old saying. If it looks like a fish and it acts like a fish, then it's a whale!
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 3, 2014 17:58:14 GMT -5
Umm hate to say this, but a whale is not a fish.... Well I am gob smacked! Next thing you are going to tell me is O_othat it is a living submarine that spouts water in the air when it surfaces? Looks to me like a big big big fish, and I suppose that Jonah thought the same also. Which is why I question why God wasn't aware that Jonah was swallowed by a whale not a fish? Surely God must have known a whale was a warm blooded mammal.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 18:09:49 GMT -5
Well I am gob smacked! Next thing you are going to tell me is O_othat it is a living submarine that spouts water in the air when it surfaces? Looks to me like a big big big fish, and I suppose that Jonah thought the same also. Which is why I question why God wasn't aware that Jonah was swallowed by a whale not a fish? Surely God must have known a whale was a warm blooded mammal. Well I googled it and they are still debating whether it was a whale or a huge fish or "a sea monster specially prepared by God for that particular mission." Surely if God made all creatures great and small He would have been aware that a whale was a warm blooded mammal, that I can agree with.
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on Dec 3, 2014 22:27:13 GMT -5
... Dennis McKinsey alleged that Matthew 12:40 is “{p}robably the most famous scientific error by Jesus” (1995, p. 142). “Apparently Jesus hadn’t read the Old Testament very closely…"
... Such a criticism of Jesus and the Bible writers epitomizes the impotence of skeptics’ attacks on God and His Word. McKinsey bases his criticism solely on an English translation made nearly 1,600 years after Jesus spoke these words. The skeptic never bothered to compare translations. He never asked about the word that Jesus originally spoke or that Matthew recorded. ...
... Nearly 300 years before Jesus spoke of Jonah being swallowed by a ketos (Matthew 12:40), translators of the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament) used this same Greek word (ketos) to translate the Hebrew word (dahg, fish) found in Jonah 1:17, 2:1, and 2:10. The fact is, as Hebrew and Greek scholar Jack Lewis concluded, both dahg and ketos “designate sea creatures of undefined species” (1976, 2:178). In no way did Jesus, the Creator of all things (John 1:3), make a mistake about what kind of animal God “had prepared” to swallow Jonah. The animal was a great sea creature, and not necessarily a great “fish” according to our modern, more limited, definition of the word. It may very well have been a type of fish (e.g., shark), water-living mammal (e.g., whale), or extinct, dinosaur-like, water-living reptile. We simply cannot be sure. As Dave Miller concluded: “Both the Hebrew and Greek languages lacked the precision to identify with specificity the identity of the creature that swallowed Jonah” (2003).
Finally, one crucial truth that many (especially the Bible critics) miss in a discussion about God and the Bible writers’ naming and classifying of animals is that God did not classify animals thousands of years ago according to our modern classification system. As far back as Creation, God divided animals into very basic, natural groups. He made aquatic and aerial creatures on day five and terrestrial animals on day six (Genesis 1:20-23,24-25). Just as God sensibly classified bats with “birds,” since they both fly (Leviticus 11:13-19; see Lyons, 2009), He could classify whales as “fish,” since they both maneuver by swimming. To accuse Jesus or the Bible writers of incorrectly categorizing an animal based upon Carolus Linnaeus’ 18th-century classification of animals, or any other modern method of classifying animals, is both illogical and unjust. ...
www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=2830 (emphasis as written in the citation)
|
|
|
Post by rational on Dec 3, 2014 22:44:43 GMT -5
... Dennis McKinsey alleged that Matthew 12:40 is “{p}robably the most famous scientific error by Jesus” (1995, p. 142). “Apparently Jesus hadn’t read the Old Testament very closely…"
... Such a criticism of Jesus and the Bible writers epitomizes the impotence of skeptics’ attacks on God and His Word. McKinsey bases his criticism solely on an English translation made nearly 1,600 years after Jesus spoke these words. The skeptic never bothered to compare translations. He never asked about the word that Jesus originally spoke or that Matthew recorded. ...
... Nearly 300 years before Jesus spoke of Jonah being swallowed by a ketos (Matthew 12:40), translators of the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament) used this same Greek word (ketos) to translate the Hebrew word (dahg, fish) found in Jonah 1:17, 2:1, and 2:10. The fact is, as Hebrew and Greek scholar Jack Lewis concluded, both dahg and ketos “designate sea creatures of undefined species” (1976, 2:178). In no way did Jesus, the Creator of all things (John 1:3), make a mistake about what kind of animal God “had prepared” to swallow Jonah. The animal was a great sea creature, and not necessarily a great “fish” according to our modern, more limited, definition of the word. It may very well have been a type of fish (e.g., shark), water-living mammal (e.g., whale), or extinct, dinosaur-like, water-living reptile. We simply cannot be sure. As Dave Miller concluded: “Both the Hebrew and Greek languages lacked the precision to identify with specificity the identity of the creature that swallowed Jonah” (2003).
Finally, one crucial truth that many (especially the Bible critics) miss in a discussion about God and the Bible writers’ naming and classifying of animals is that God did not classify animals thousands of years ago according to our modern classification system. As far back as Creation, God divided animals into very basic, natural groups. He made aquatic and aerial creatures on day five and terrestrial animals on day six (Genesis 1:20-23,24-25). Just as God sensibly classified bats with “birds,” since they both fly (Leviticus 11:13-19; see Lyons, 2009), He could classify whales as “fish,” since they both maneuver by swimming. To accuse Jesus or the Bible writers of incorrectly categorizing an animal based upon Carolus Linnaeus’ 18th-century classification of animals, or any other modern method of classifying animals, is both illogical and unjust. ...
www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=2830 (emphasis as written in the citation) This is all a nice try to eliminate errors. But given an omniscience being should the classification have changed over time? Would a penguin be classified as a fish because it swims like a fish but does not fly? Perhaps the biblical stories were written by people living at the time and explaining things as they understood them. An omniscient being would not have made the basic mistakes.
|
|
|
Post by StAnne on Dec 3, 2014 23:37:13 GMT -5
This is all a nice try to eliminate errors. But given an omniscience being should the classification have changed over time? Would a penguin be classified as a fish because it swims like a fish but does not fly? Perhaps the biblical stories were written by people living at the time and explaining things as they understood them. An omniscient being would not have made the basic mistakes. You are correct in that 'an omniscient being', God, did not make mistakes - in this situation or any other. I'm guessing man's classification has changed a number of times, however. As to man's progression of understanding and classification; and the inadequacies of language translations ...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 0:12:32 GMT -5
Umm hate to say this, but a whale is not a fish.... yes that's right it's a mamal God prepared a fish so the Bible says
|
|
|
Post by magpie on Dec 4, 2014 4:04:50 GMT -5
Isnt is sick? We send out warnings of the possibility of a predators arriving amongst children in a State. Sent there,from another state originally to remove him once before from the Godless 2x2 grapevine (which sometimes has grapes on it). So #$%^&*()_ if it was a mamal or fish? What has that got to do about protecting our little children and young teens? Oh how this turns the clock back,sing first and last verse around the piano,so slow, then talk about a couple of juicy gossips,someones new mercedes,someones degree,but dont ask a deep theological question,the#$%^&* heads will make snide remarks----actually what they meant is "we are not interested". Sounds familiar? So all this diversion garbage away from the sexual deviants fruits of unbiblical celibacy and the mentally disorded paedophiles amongst that 2x2 lot "worldwide"and you still dont know how to roll up your sleeves and get stuck into your decietful psuedo servants,making a real noise and even go public if it is to saves the little ones. I suppose if the Holy Spirit laid a question on your heart,would you say before I respond God tell me what come first the chicken or the egg,that is a 2x2 diversion type thinking,I know once I was trapped in selfrightous exclusive judgemental 2x2 elitism,had to be we were going to heaven if our hair met man/womans approval,damn the rest expected of a christian. "ALSO" why did David Leitch allow and support (being present)the Ernie Barry appeal? Using a psychologist of an underworld supporting background, (including Tony Mokbel).. [name removed] $5 Grand a day story teller? Leitch knew(he lies if he denies knowlege)that Barry was avoiding 12 more known victims the police are so frustrated as all 12 were in bondage of fear of offending workers and families and their "only way?" a chance of to get to heaven. "WHAT" hold has Barry over Leitch,that he would allow justice for the damaged,distressed victims and real "TRUTH" be hidden/covered up? Back to original post "THE WARNING?" and if you cant stomach it,then shut up and stop hurting us victims further by avoiding the cruel reality of CSA and other sexual adultress,homosexual/lesbian 2x2 ministry problems,they place their followers and children in dangerous situations and these risks that are in so many 2x2s parts of the world. "WHO IS IN MY HOUSE TONIGHT?"
|
|
|
Post by rational on Dec 4, 2014 9:32:30 GMT -5
You are correct in that 'an omniscient being', God, did not make mistakes - in this situation or any other. I thought you said that a mammal was classified as a bird. For whatever the reason, that seems to be a mistake. As far as the whale/fish story - ignore the species and try to think about any known organism that would support human life for 3 days. It is not like animals have large open well ventilated spaces within their bodies that would support humans. If this is to be believed as a true story then there would need to be a magical beast thrown in to accommodate the story.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 11:24:00 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 4, 2014 12:04:20 GMT -5
My question is this. Why does a book supposedly inspired and written by an all knowing being need to have so many apologists explaining it?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 13:18:22 GMT -5
My question is this. Why does a book supposedly inspired and written by an all knowing being need to have so many apologists explaining it? 1) A proper understanding is reserved only for those seeking God's truth through the agency of the Holy Spirit, most often in conjunction with another believer/believers. 2) Many who seek to explain or understand it and who have not been born again with the Holy Spirit are fodder for The God Delusion! Acts 8: 29. "Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30. And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31. And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing."
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 4, 2014 13:22:03 GMT -5
My question is this. Why does a book supposedly inspired and written by an all knowing being need to have so many apologists explaining it? 1) A proper understanding is reserved only for those seeking God's truth through the agency of the Holy Spirit, most often in conjunction with another believer/believers. 2) Many who seek to explain or understand it and who have not been born again with the Holy Spirit are fodder for The God Delusion! Acts 8: 29. "Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30. And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31. And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing."
You'd think if God was really serious about wanting everyone to join him in heaven he'd make it a bit clearer to us people who are a little slow to understand then.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 13:27:00 GMT -5
1) A proper understanding is reserved only for those seeking God's truth through the agency of the Holy Spirit, most often in conjunction with another believer/believers. 2) Many who seek to explain or understand it and who have not been born again with the Holy Spirit are fodder for The God Delusion! Acts 8: 29. "Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30. And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31. And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing."
You'd think if God was really serious about wanting everyone to join him in heaven he'd make it a bit clearer to us people who are a little slow to understand then. That's exactly why he sent his own divine power, the Holy Spirit, to teach, lead and guide you into all righteousness through a special, individual relationship with him. Through the Holy Spirit he will write his laws and his ways on your heart. The key is the hoop which the Ethiopian Eunuch jumped through. He believed with all his heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (nb. NOT God the Son, is actually God, etc...which is a far greater God Delusion than Dawkins wrote).
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 4, 2014 15:47:20 GMT -5
You'd think if God was really serious about wanting everyone to join him in heaven he'd make it a bit clearer to us people who are a little slow to understand then. That's exactly why he sent his own divine power, the Holy Spirit, to teach, lead and guide you into all righteousness through a special, individual relationship with him. Through the Holy Spirit he will write his laws and his ways on your heart. The key is the hoop which the Ethiopian Eunuch jumped through. He believed with all his heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (nb. NOT God the Son, is actually God, etc...which is a far greater God Delusion than Dawkins wrote). Well I would need to get it exactly right and believe as you believe and not as those who believe in the Trinity believe. I'm sure there is other things I would need to get exactly right too. Which is my point actually. Who is right? Which interpretation? For that matter which God? The Holy Spirit sounds like a conscious, but it seems to guide people in all sorts of directions. I listen to those on here debating endlessly about who is right and that is only within Christianity. What about all the other religions and their definition and God? I find it's far easier to not believe in any God and just be as loving and compassionate as I can be. The rest of it is just too complicated for me.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Dec 4, 2014 16:07:46 GMT -5
Well I would need to get it exactly right and believe as you believe and not as those who believe in the Trinity believe. I'm sure there is other things I would need to get exactly right too. Which is my point actually. Who is right? Which interpretation? For that matter which God? The Holy Spirit sounds like a conscious, but it seems to guide people in all sorts of directions. I listen to those on here debating endlessly about who is right and that is only within Christianity. What about all the other religions and their definition and God? I find it's far easier to not believe in any God and just be as loving and compassionate as I can be. The rest of it is just too complicated for me. I think there are many who need an outside source to be comfortable. A very powerful and kind being who will take care of all their needs and, if they jump through a varying number of hoops using the correct/approved form, will also provide for them after they die. Of course, this same being will punish those who have done wrong. It's like having a body-guard. In reality, of course, there are many problems. So if you try to invent one you need to continually explain the contradictions and problems as soon as anyone looks closely and starts to ask questions.
|
|
|
Post by magpie on Dec 4, 2014 16:47:18 GMT -5
You lot are rude? Someone is sending a message to protect our children from a horrid experience and you are going on about a big fish. That is for another post. This one is "WARNING- QUEENSLAND ALERT". I remember at a Regional City at Christmas Carols a comment was made "THOSE COONEYITES ARE SO RUDE,TALKED AND LAUGHED ALL THROUGH THE CAROLS,IGNORANT LOT,NO RESPECT AT ALL".
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 4, 2014 16:52:04 GMT -5
Well I would need to get it exactly right and believe as you believe and not as those who believe in the Trinity believe. I'm sure there is other things I would need to get exactly right too. Which is my point actually. Who is right? Which interpretation? For that matter which God? The Holy Spirit sounds like a conscious, but it seems to guide people in all sorts of directions. I listen to those on here debating endlessly about who is right and that is only within Christianity. What about all the other religions and their definition and God? I find it's far easier to not believe in any God and just be as loving and compassionate as I can be. The rest of it is just too complicated for me. I think there are many who need an outside source to be comfortable. A very powerful and kind being who will take care of all their needs and, if they jump through a varying number of hoops using the correct/approved form, will also provide for them after they die. Of course, this same being will punish those who have done wrong. It's like having a body-guard. In reality, of course, there are many problems. So if you try to invent one you need to continually explain the contradictions and problems as soon as anyone looks closely and starts to ask questions. I understand why people do feel they need a 'body guard' and comfort. But if you can't believe in such a being, trying to doesn't bring much comfort. You can't deceive yourself. Well maybe you can, but do you get the same degree of comfort? I rather doubt it. Or maybe that's why it's so important for people to know people are praying for them all the time. It's helps confirm for them that if others believe it, then it must be true? I don't know. All I know it that it doesn't work for me.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Dec 4, 2014 17:04:01 GMT -5
Isnt is sick? We send out warnings of the possibility of a predators arriving amongst children in a State. Sent there,from another state originally to remove him once before from the Godless 2x2 grapevine (which sometimes has grapes on it). So #$%^&*()_ if it was a mamal or fish? What has that got to do about protecting our little children and young teens? Oh how this turns the clock back,sing first and last verse around the piano,so slow, then talk about a couple of juicy gossips,someones new mercedes,someones degree,but dont ask a deep theological question,the#$%^&* heads will make snide remarks----actually what they meant is "we are not interested". Sounds familiar? So all this diversion garbage away from the sexual deviants fruits of unbiblical celibacy and the mentally disorded paedophiles amongst that 2x2 lot "worldwide"and you still dont know how to roll up your sleeves and get stuck into your decietful psuedo servants,making a real noise and even go public if it is to saves the little ones. I suppose if the Holy Spirit laid a question on your heart,would you say before I respond God tell me what come first the chicken or the egg,that is a 2x2 diversion type thinking,I know once I was trapped in selfrightous exclusive judgemental 2x2 elitism,had to be we were going to heaven if our hair met man/womans approval,damn the rest expected of a christian. "ALSO" why did David Leitch allow and support (being present)the Ernie Barry appeal? Using a psychologist of an underworld supporting background, (including Tony Mokbel).. [name removed] $5 Grand a day story teller? Leitch knew(he lies if he denies knowlege)that Barry was avoiding 12 more known victims the police are so frustrated as all 12 were in bondage of fear of offending workers and families and their "only way?" a chance of to get to heaven. "WHAT" hold has Barry over Leitch,that he would allow justice for the damaged,distressed victims and real "TRUTH" be hidden/covered up? Back to original post "THE WARNING?" and if you cant stomach it,then shut up and stop hurting us victims further by avoiding the cruel reality of CSA and other sexual adultress,homosexual/lesbian 2x2 ministry problems,they place their followers and children in dangerous situations and these risks that are in so many 2x2s parts of the world. "WHO IS IN MY HOUSE TONIGHT?" Magpie, I believe most workers and friends would want the fellowship's children to be protected from sexual predators but the extent of the problem is hidden unless the victims feel able and willing to testify. While the extent of the problem is hidden, most victims will not come forward. So it's catch-22 to some extent, but I believe over time workers and friends will become educated with respect to CSA and deal with it. In your posts it would be better to not mix your theological concerns with your CSA concerns. That is counter-productive.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Dec 4, 2014 17:06:22 GMT -5
You lot are rude? Someone is sending a message to protect our children from a horrid experience and you are going on about a big fish. That is for another post. This one is "WARNING- QUEENSLAND ALERT". I remember at a Regional City at Christmas Carols a comment was made "THOSE COONEYITES ARE SO RUDE,TALKED AND LAUGHED ALL THROUGH THE CAROLS,IGNORANT LOT,NO RESPECT AT ALL". Good point Magpie - the fishy talk should go to a new thread.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 17:57:00 GMT -5
That's exactly why he sent his own divine power, the Holy Spirit, to teach, lead and guide you into all righteousness through a special, individual relationship with him. Through the Holy Spirit he will write his laws and his ways on your heart. The key is the hoop which the Ethiopian Eunuch jumped through. He believed with all his heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (nb. NOT God the Son, is actually God, etc...which is a far greater God Delusion than Dawkins wrote). Well I would need to get it exactly right and believe as you believe and not as those who believe in the Trinity believe. I'm sure there is other things I would need to get exactly right too. Which is my point actually. Who is right? Which interpretation? For that matter which God? The Holy Spirit sounds like a conscious, but it seems to guide people in all sorts of directions. I listen to those on here debating endlessly about who is right and that is only within Christianity. What about all the other religions and their definition and God? I find it's far easier to not believe in any God and just be as loving and compassionate as I can be. The rest of it is just too complicated for me. Begin with an honest heart. Study the scriptures. God has promised that if you draw near to him then he will draw near to you. If you are listening to others, always measure up their words and beliefs against what the scriptures actually say, rather than what they want you to believe they say. As far as I am concerned, I don't want anyone to follow my lead on interpretation and understanding, but would rather they sought out the scriptures and an understanding for themselves and if they thought that I was wrong, then they would bring it to my attention. We are in an age of great deceit and falsehood with regards to scriptural matters. Abide in the surety of the word of God. I have proved that most who claim to follow the word of God, actually shift the goalposts to accommodate more convenient thinking.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 18:21:20 GMT -5
You lot are rude? Someone is sending a message to protect our children from a horrid experience and you are going on about a big fish. That ims for another post. This one is "WARNING- QUEENSLAND ALERT". I remember at a Regional City at Christmas Carols a comment was made "THOSE COONEYITES ARE SO RUDE,TALKED AND LAUGHED ALL THROUGH THE CAROLS,IGNORANT LOT,NO RESPECT AT ALL". Magpie, I apologize for the distraction, I was the first to mention about Jonah and the whale in an aside response to ram, and it just took off from there. It was not a planned attemp to derail the thread, in point of fact I was most surprised at the attention that the big fish, whale, sea monster, whatever it was, has created. I don't think that your accusation of rudeness is justifiable; unreasonable perhaps, thoughtless perhaps or even selfish and unsympathetic through lack of serious interest, perhaps; but not rude. People just got carried away with a debatable and interesting subject that came up suddenly and attracted their attention; that is why I have now apologised for the unintended distraction. Am I forgiven? please, pretty Please?
|
|
|
Post by magpie on Dec 5, 2014 4:29:16 GMT -5
Hi Partaker,Hear what you are saying. Now back to the Regional City,a 2x2 get together,I was about 21yrs. Everyone was there predomentaly young adults and teens. I walk in. Near the first words made audable and clear for most to hear,"Who invited him",rude or not?Typical selfrightous judgemental arrogent hurtfull typical young 2x2s attitude,no one voiced for a retraction either,and the ones who told me it was on did a worker denial by silence. As at those Christmas Carols,Godly testimony to our neighbours or a reason for the neighbours to dispise their rude irreverant noisey actions, as many folk worked hard to have a time when hoping many would feel the need to seek out a "what is this celebration of this birth so long ago all about"? As we sing at times like this "- that man should live forever more because of Christmas day".
|
|
|
Post by magpie on Dec 5, 2014 5:13:31 GMT -5
Dear Fixit, Theology is the absolute of any Christian discussion and debate. It is the teachings of the Epistles after Jesus assenention. The church was being formed and all areas of ministry as Ephesions 4,vs 11/12speaks of some of these ministry areas(plus in Timothy we are explained more levels of responsable positions)which are Apostles,Prophets,PASRORS & teachers. We can add preachers,counsillors,and very much disciples (discipleship),Bishops,Deacons and more. vs12,He did this to prepare ALL GOD's people for the work of christian SERVICE in order to build up the body of Christ------And we shall all come together to that oneness in our faith and in our KNOWLEDGE of the SON OF GOD;we shall become mature people,reaching the very heightsof Christs FULL stature. You cannot divide theology in a battle that has been a cancer in the centre of a sect,I know personaly from the mid 1940s and "first" Preacher of the unbiblical demanded celibate sect,who I was victim of had a bad history in late 1920s-30s(I lived near his home town)Over 80 years to me CSA criminal problems have been rife and avoided or covered up in many cases (sent to anotrher field-just as dangerous in any language or Country) EIGHTY plus years and maybe it appears the will do something positive,a sick statement,decades of sexual deviants surviving in a smorgasbord of children and young vulnerable teens. Enquire of any Country where this unbiblical sect is set up and you will find an explosion of corrupt coverups and some individual brother & sisters revealed,many charged fortunatly some jailed. Over 80 years and the children still are facing the horrors many before them faced. I
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 5:14:27 GMT -5
Hi Partaker,Hear what you are saying. Now back to the Regional City,a 2x2 get together,I was about 21yrs. Everyone was there predomentaly young adults and teens. I walk in. Near the first words made audable and clear for most to hear,"Who invited him",rude or not?Typical selfrightous judgemental arrogent hurtfull typical young 2x2s attitude,no one voiced for a retraction either,and the ones who told me it was on did a worker denial by silence. As at those Christmas Carols,Godly testimony to our neighbours or a reason for the neighbours to dispise their rude irreverant noisey actions, as many folk worked hard to have a time when hoping many would feel the need to seek out a "what is this celebration of this birth so long ago all about"? As we sing at times like this "- that man should live forever more because of Christmas day". Magpie, I understand where you are coming from. I was born and raised in the fellowship and there is much that I disagree with and do not appreciate and I very often speak out about it. You call it rude and I call it arrogance and self-righteousness. If you read through some of my postings you will observe the I mention from time to time that arrogance is not a substitute for humility. There is a lack of humility within the fellowship, but scripture teaches us that unless we are as as humble as a child we wil not enter heaven. Having said that, I think that you would agree with me that most reasonable adults would not accept rudeness in children; and children do learn from and copy adult behaviour. So it is like a "chicken and egg situation." Many folks point out the Christ was not born on 25 December, the date that the Christian world celebrate.; but we know for certain that He was born on a Day; so I see nothing wrong with celebrating his birth on a chosen date. He is extremely important in the lives of true Christians and we do see His entry into the world as something to celebrate with joy to the world, because his crucifixion, death and resurrection is our hope of eternal life in Heaven;so rejoice in His birth and His death and resurrection, and I say rejoice again. But keep the noise level down, so as not to cause any disturbances to neighbours, who may not be physically well.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Dec 5, 2014 10:28:39 GMT -5
I understand why people do feel they need a 'body guard' and comfort. But if you can't believe in such a being, trying to doesn't bring much comfort. You can't deceive yourself. Well maybe you can, but do you get the same degree of comfort? I rather doubt it. Or maybe that's why it's so important for people to know people are praying for them all the time. It's helps confirm for them that if others believe it, then it must be true? I don't know. All I know it that it doesn't work for me. You can deceive yourself. It results in cognitive dissonance, not a comfortable feeling for many, but usually one can stuff those feelings in a dark out-of-the-way place and ignore them for long periods of time!
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Jan 16, 2015 21:46:04 GMT -5
Well that makes it even worse ! Mr Leitch is aware of his past therefore he should be letting the Head worker in QLD know & in turn people should be warned not to let him stay in their homes ! Rosyln, I understand that the person on whom this discussion is centred is no longer in the work and, as redback said, was visiting on his own volition. As such, he is no longer answerable to Mr Leitch. He is a private citizen who can go where he wishes, when he wishes. If people wished to see him as a friend then that is their business. If people didn't wish to see him, well that is their right also. In any case he has not been charged or convicted of any crime. He has however been the victim of significant heresy/slander by a number of people on this board. The behaviour of a number of people here has potential to have this board closed down. This board is not the correct place to air suspicions on people. That is likely to do more harm than good. If you know a victim of CSA, please do all you can to encourage them to go to authorities where the path to justice can be trod. I understand too well that the hurt of CSA cannot be healed, but it is in no-ones interest to create further hurt with potential false CSA accusations and innuendo of an individuals moral behaviours. Hey Jimmy, maybe you better check the facts, the new workers list is out ............ !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 1:50:44 GMT -5
Roselyn, keep us outies informed, post the list.
|
|