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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 5:29:18 GMT -5
~~ Here are two of the verses....
Before! Jesus was born in Luke 1:46-47. Mary said, " My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior."1) Nathan, I'm assuming you meant Luke 1.46-47? The verses you have in mind refer to the "lord God!" In verse 35 the Angel told Mary that the child born to her would be called the "Son of God." As a follow on from this The soul of Mary magnified and her spirit rejoiced in the Lord God her Saviour. God the Father saves THROUGH Jesus Christ the Saviour Son.~~ NathanB: Mary called the unborn child in her womb, the "Lord=Yahweh God her SAVIOR." The unborn child God and Man will come forth and died for her sin. God the Father is NOT our Savior but Jesus the Lord God is because He died for us. The Father hasn't died for our sins.2) If you are going to quote from the Book of Revelation you must first understand and take into account the fact that the Revelation of Jesus Christ IS actually the Revelation of God the Father which was handed down to Jesus. The first half sentence in the book is all importand for proper contextual understanding. Here it is..."The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him..." The revelation came from the Father. Keep in mind that the human Jesus, Son of God, has ascended to Heaven and received from his Father and his God, all power in Heaven and on Earth. He is reigning in his Father's stead in all his majesty. He is running the show. He is the only one worthy to do so as a result of his victory over the World, flesh and the Devil. By virtue of the position his Father and God has given to him he is "acting" Mighty God or Lord God Almighty, but is not Actually The Almighty God who is the Father. One day, after he defeats all his enemies, the last of which is death, he will hand back that power and authority to his Father and God. The Book of Revelation is quite clear that God is the Father and that the Father remains Jesus's God. Every true believer, through adoption, will be joint heir with Christ, or the bride of Christ, and will receive a crown of righteousness and reign with Jesus. Jesus will have the preeminence, but every believer will be like a wife to a husband with Jesus and will be similarly exalted, served day and night by the angels, etc. Gone will be human nature. We will all be part of God through the divine nature of the Holy Spirit which will fill our glorified bodies. We will all be in essence "God!" However, God will remain Jesus's God and our God, Jesus's Father and our Father! Jesus IS the beginning. He is the start of all creation, the firstborn of the creation. God does not have a beginning.~~ NathanB: You still don't get it. The Father is God. The Son is also God just like the Father. Read it AGAIN.... where Jesus called himself God/supreme being just like the Father. said in Revelation 21:7 "It is done, I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end." I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be MY Son."
Nathan you still don't understand that not only is Jesus now reigning on behalf of the Father/God, he is also speaking from occupying that same position. He is "acting" as Mighty God or Almighty God on behalf of the Father, because that is his inheritance. He has been granted that position. He has been given all power in Heaven and Earth until he defeats all his enemies and then returns that power to his father and your father, to his God and your God. The Father is greater than Jesus. In Revelation ch. 21 the "he that sat upon the throne" is speaking on behalf of the Lord God Almighty as he is acting in that role! Continue in the same chapter, John says, v.23 "And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof." God's glory shines through Jesus, the Lamb of God.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 9:15:36 GMT -5
Nathan you still don't understand that not only is Jesus now reigning on behalf of the Father/God, he is also speaking from occupying that same position. He is "acting" as Mighty God or Almighty God on behalf of the Father, because that is his inheritance. He has been granted that position. He has been given all power in Heaven and Earth until he defeats all his enemies and then returns that power to his father and your father, to his God and your God. The Father is greater than Jesus. In Revelation ch. 21 the "he that sat upon the throne" is speaking on behalf of the Lord God Almighty as he is acting in that role! Continue in the same chapter, John says, v.23 "And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof." God's glory shines through Jesus, the Lamb of God. You still don't fully understand WHO Jesus is..... Jesus or His Spirit has ALWAYS been the Almighty God before He created the Universe and everything in it. His Spirit is NOT "ACTING" that role when He became Jesus or after He ascended to the Father. That was what Jesus trying to tell the Jews in his days in John 8. The Jews wanted to stone him for the sin of Blasphemy! He a man claimed to be God, the I AM that I AM in the Old Testament. The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was saying to them! "I AM the I AM God/Yahweh." They took up stone him for Blasphemy! Blasphemer was to be stone to death according to the Law of Moses/God. Jesus was TELLING them the truth but they didn't believe it.
Jesus or God/Spirit in Him, has ALWAYS been the I AM that I AM God/Yahweh! He exists from Eternity to Eternity. His Spirit has NO beginning or ending. Jesus or His God/Spirit He is from Everlasting to Everlasting. There's NO a "ACTING" about it, he is the second Person of the Godhead. Jesus Being God is His nature, and Spirit.
This why Jesus is the Almighty God because He humble Himself taken the lower place, by submitting to God the Father.
Nathan, Jesus NEVER told the Jews that he was God. He said he was the Son of God. In that culture, as elsewhere, a son was regarded as being equal to the Father because he was of his Father and one day would receive his Father's inheritance and therefore take over his Father's position. In a sense Jesus has done that, BUT he is not the Father God. At no time did Jesus ever say he was God and it behoves us if we wish to be a disciple of Christ to abide in his words, not mans' words. As you well know, The Great I AM is the omniscient spiritual presence of God. Agreed? God sent Forth his only begotten Son as the Great I AM. Jesus was the express image of his Father/God. He represented him in every way except in position as he was the Father's servant Son. The writer of Hebrews makes this very clear in chapter 1.1-3. "God, (The I AM) who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high."
This is the context of Jesus saying "I AM." It is God speaking THROUGH Jesus. Jesus is the brightness of the Father's Glory. It is like a light bulb and the light given off. The light is not the light bulb, rather it comes from it. The light expresses the power and glory of the light bulb.
Paul wrote in Philip 2:5-11 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Being the express image of God, Jesus was equal to God in nature, purpose, etc, but was not the person God.
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
"]God gave his Son his inheritance and accompanying titles.
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
"]Exactly. Can you not understand this simple language? Jesus the Son of God was given his inheritance from the Father/God of the Father's divine power, the Holy Spirit, by which he received all power and authority in Heaven and Earth, in order to bring all his enemies under his control. Everyone will confess that Jesus Christ, the Son of God is Lord and in doing so will glorify God the Father. Amen. NATHAN, REMEMBER WHAT JESUS SAID IN JOHN 5.43! "I AM COME IN MY FATHER'S NAME. Jesus came in the name of "I AM!" This is very important to remember in this discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 12:56:23 GMT -5
1) Nathan, Jesus NEVER told the Jews that he was God. He said he was the Son of God. In that culture, as elsewhere, a son was regarded as being equal to the Father because he was of his Father and one day would receive his Father's inheritance and therefore take over his Father's position. In a sense Jesus has done that, BUT he is not the Father God. At no time did Jesus ever say he was God and it behoves us if we wish to be a disciple of Christ to abide in his words, not mans' words. ~~~ NathanB: Here are MANY verses where Jesus said He is God and Lord/Yahweh to the Jews in his days and to his disciples to hear. Jesus is God/supreme Being just like His heavenly Father is God.Someone posted: Jesus Christ Claims to be God [/b] NOT just in the gospel of John but in Matthew, Mark, and Luke.[/font] Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Jesus tells satan, "you shall not tempt the Lord your God" in reference to Himself.
Matt. 5:21-22; 27-28; 31-32; 33-34; 38-39; 43-44 - Jesus makes Himself equal to God when He declares, "You heard it said...but I say to you.."
Matt. 7:21-22; Luke 6:46 - not everyone who says to Jesus, "Lord, Lord." Jesus calls Himself Lord, which is God.
Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 - Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.
Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 - Jesus says that He is "Lord of the Sabbath." He is the Lord of God's law which means He is God.
Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them. Matt. 21:3; Luke 19:31,34 - Jesus calls himself "Lord." "The Lord has need of them."Matt. 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:70 - Jesus acknowledges that He is the Son of God.
Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.
Mark 14:36 - Jesus calls God "Abba," Aramaic for daddy, which was an absolutely unprecedented address to God and demonstrates Jesus' unique intimacy with the Father. Luke 8:39 - Luke reports that Jesus said "tell how much God has done for you." And the man declared how much Jesus did.
Luke 17:18 - Jesus asks why the other nine lepers did not come back to give praise to Him, God, except the Samaritan leper. Luke 19:38,40 - Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. If these were silent, the very stones would cry out. [/quote] Better to listen to God's revelation than mans' interpretation!
Matthew 16:13 "When Jesus came into the coasts of Caeserea Phillipi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of Man am?
14. And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15. He sayeth unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16. And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
17. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona; for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18. And I say unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Believe what you like Nathan. Listen to whatever interpretation takes your fancy, but John the Apostle said that the Word became flesh and was FULL of truth and grace. Jesus exhorts us to abide in his word if we wish to be his disciple. As you can see from the above, Jesus was going to build his church on the revelation from God. That revelation clearly shows that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Nothing else. At no time did Jesus speak about a Trinity, him being God himself,or God the Son. These are mans' interpretations that are nothing more than enticing doctrines which will lead us away from the simplicity that is in Christ, something that we have been well warned about. None of these things are part of the Truth of Jesus. They are not part of his words. Once more I will state there are no references in the NT which have been used by theologians to show that Jesus is God that have not been taken out of context.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 13:47:55 GMT -5
Better to listen to God's revelation than mans' interpretation!
Believe what you like Nathan. Listen to whatever interpretation takes your fancy, but John the Apostle said that the Word became flesh and was FULL of truth and grace. Jesus exhorts us to abide in his word if we wish to be his disciple. As you can see from the above, Jesus was going to build his church on the revelation from God. That revelation clearly shows that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Nothing else. At no time did Jesus speak about a Trinity, him being God himself, or God the Son. These are mans' interpretations that are nothing more than enticing doctrines which will lead us away from the simplicity that is in Christ, something that we have been well warned about. None of these things are part of the Truth of Jesus. They are not part of his words. Once more I will state there are no references in the NT which have been used by theologians to show that Jesus is God that have not been taken out of context. ~~ RossB, Sharon, Stanne, others, and myself have tried to convey and share with many on here... Jesus is BOTH the Son of God and God the Son. Many people do NOT truly and fully understand the Triune God because there are many belief out there such as Jesus is NOT God because ONLY the Father is God. Jesus the Son of God NOT God the Son. On the Cross Jesus prayed to himself if he was God, "My God, My God why has thou forshaken me?" The word "trinity" is not found in the Bible. But this does not mean that the concept is not taught there. The word "bible" is not found in the Bible either, but we use it anyway. Likewise, the words "omniscience," which means "all knowing," "omnipotence," which means "all powerful," and "omnipresence," which means "present everywhere," are not found in the Bible either. But we use these words to describe the attributes of God. So, to say that the Trinity isn't true because the word isn't in the Bible is an invalid argument.The following verses are often used to demonstrate that the doctrine of the Trinity is indeed biblical:Matt. 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit," 1 Cor. 12:4-6, "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons." 2 Cor. 13:14, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all." Eph. 4:4-7, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift." 1 Pet. 1:2, "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure." Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life." ~~ The Bible passages mention the Three Persons/Trinity.Matthew 3:16,17 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: and lo a voice (the Father) from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Matthew 28:19 Jesus said, "Go ye therefore, and teach ALL nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." II Cor. 13:14 "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all." John 3:34; 14:26; 15:26; 16:13-15. Romans 14:17,18; 15:13-17; 15:30. I Cor. 6:11, 17-19; 12:4-6. II Cor. 1:21; 22:2; 3:4-6. Gal. 2:21, 3:2, 4:6. However, even though God is one of His essential being or nature, He is also three Persons. God (Elohim/Plural) said, " Let US! make man in OUR image." (Gen. 1:26) God said, "Behold, the man has become One of us." (Gen. 3:22). [/color] God's plural personality is alluded to here, for He could NOT be talking to angels in these instances, because angels could not and did not help God create. The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ, NOT the angels, created all things (John 1:3; Collossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:2). King David wrote in Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. King David wrote in Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take NOT thy Holy Spirit from me. Restore unto the joy of thy Salvation, and uphold me with thy Spirit. Genesis 1:1,2 In the beginning God/Elohim=Plural created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the earth. God said to the Son, " And thou Lord (Jesus) in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands..." (Heb. 1:10,11) John wrote in (John 1:3,10) ALL things were made by Him (Jesus) and without him was not anything made that was made. He was in the world and the world was MADE by Him, and the world knew him not. [/quote] Nathan, I could competently refute every reference you attempt to provide, but since you have no heart for listening to the words of Jesus, which are spirit and life to those who believe, I realise that to continue to do so will be in vain. Man quite simply will not be convinced against his will. Jesus clearly revealed who the Father is (the only true God) and the Father clearly revealed who Jesus is (Son of God). Their statements could not be clearer. As stated in my earlier post, "believe what you will," but you will only have yourself to blame.
Everything that you continue to present I have addressed in one form of another. It is clear that you are not interested in and have not thought about what I have been presenting. You merely confuse the issue through repetition, copy and pasting and no thought out dialogue.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 14:11:34 GMT -5
Nathan, I could competently refute every reference you attempt to provide, but since you have no heart for listening to the words of Jesus, which are spirit and life to those who believe, I realise that to continue to do so will be in vain. Man quite simply will not be convinced against his will. Jesus clearly revealed who the Father is (the only true God) and the Father clearly revealed who Jesus is (Son of God). Their statements could not be clearer. As stated in my earlier post, "believe what you will," but you will only have yourself to blame. There are two sides on a coin. Jesus is Both the Son of God and God the Son. It seems you ONLY want to see ONE side of the coin... Jesus is the Son of God. You missed the blessing of NOT seeing the other side of Jesus God/Yahweh. You ONLY want to see One side of Jesus is the Son of God while he was on the earth as a man. The other side of the coin Jesus God/Yahweh has always exist as God/supreme Being before he incarnated himself as the son of God 2000 yrs ago.
When you want to show somebody a beautiful Gold coin, you want them to see the TWO sides of the coin NOT just one side of the gold coin. You missed out the intricate, beautiful artwork of the missing side of Jesus/God.
Nathan, you completely ignore every reference or indication from the Bible that clearly shows that Jesus is not God. These cannot be overlooked, especially when every single reference used to show that Jesus is God is ambiguous at the very least. Neither Jesus nor his Heavenly Father stated that Jesus is the one true God. The church of Jesus is one built on revelation, the fullness of which has been left on record for us. What you have stated above is nothing short of fables or enticing doctrines (of devils) sent to lead us away from the simplicity of Christ and to worship a heathen concept of a triune god. There is no missing side to Jesus. We are clearly told that he came FULL OF TRUTH and grace. If there was a missing side, he could not have revealed the full truth as to who he and the Father really were. Don't look for something that isn't there. Don't be led away by "beautiful" doctrines which appear to be like gold coins, but will only bankrupt you spiritually!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 15:55:07 GMT -5
Nathan, you completely ignore every reference or indication from the Bible that clearly shows that Jesus is not God. These cannot be overlooked, especially when every single reference used to show that Jesus is God is ambiguous at the very least. Neither Jesus nor his Heavenly Father stated that Jesus is the one true God. The church of Jesus is one built on revelation, the fullness of which has been left on record for us. What you have stated above is nothing short of fables or enticing doctrines (of devils) sent to lead us away from the simplicity of Christ and to worship a heathen concept of a triune god. There is no missing side to Jesus. We are clearly told that he came FULL OF TRUTH and grace. If there was a missing side, he could not have revealed the full truth as to who he and the Father really were. Don't look for something that isn't there. Don't be led away by "beautiful" doctrines which appear to be like gold coins, but will only bankrupt you spiritually! Well, ram you showed one side of the coin about Jesus, the Son of God..... AND.... I have showed you other side of the coin, where Jesus, the apostles, his mother said he is God/Yahweh just like His Father who is also God and you dodn't believe it. Jesus is BOTH the Son of God and God the Son.
God the Father called the Son, both "God and Lord" in Hebrews 1:8-12
This was explained to you and you have not even considered it. Jesus has received his inheritance of the Holy Spirit. The Father has given him all power in heaven and earth until Jesus defeats his enemies, then he returns that power to the Father. By virtue of his position (not personage) Jesus reigns as Mighty God and wise counselor. You too are joint-heir of that same position as part of the bride of Christ, but the Father is supreme and remains both Jesus's Father and your father and Jesus's God and your God. The portion you quote from Hebrews corroborates this.
It has NOT bankrupt me spiritually! But it has increase my LOVE, appreciation, adoration for the God who left heaven and died a painful death for my sins on Calvary's Cross. This is the Lord God Almighty I want to worship and LOVE with all my hearts.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 4:06:58 GMT -5
~~ NathanB: Well, ram you showed one side of the coin about Jesus, the Son of God..... AND.... I have showed you other side of the coin, where Jesus, the apostles, his mother said he is God/Yahweh just like His Father who is also God and you dodn't believe it. Jesus is BOTH the Son of God and God the Son.God the Father called the Son, both "God and Lord" in Hebrews 1:8-121) Ram wrote: This was explained to you and you have not even considered it. Jesus has received his inheritance of the Holy Spirit. The Father has given him all power in heaven and earth until Jesus defeats his enemies, then he returns that power to the Father. By virtue of his position (not personage) Jesus reigns as Mighty God and wise counselor. You too are joint-heir of that same position as part of the bride of Christ, but the Father is supreme and remains both Jesus's Father and your father and Jesus's God and your God. The portion you quote from Hebrews corroborates this. ~~ God is Spirit. Before the Universe, the stars, and earth was created God/Elohim/plural exists 1) God of the Most High, 2) God Almighty the I AM that I AM, and 3) Holy Spirit. There was no such thing as God the Father or the Son of God. There is no male or female in heaven. God is Spirit. God of the Most High, The Almighty God, and Holy Spirit are on equally level. They had a plan... God of the Most High became the Father, and The Almighty God I AM that I AM became his son of man and God, and the Holy made the son came into a being/God through Mary's body.
The Almighty God, I AM that I AM humble himself, made himself lower than God of the Most High/Father. Before the Creation of the world God Almighty, God of the most High, and Holy Spirit on the same level=Godhead. Equality.... Each of the Godhead has a role to fill in mankind Salvation. God of the Most High known as the Father. The Almighty God known as the Son, and the Holy Spirit known as the comforter/teacher to Jesus followers. Okay Nathan, when you pray, who do you pray to?
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Post by bubbles on Oct 18, 2014 4:44:03 GMT -5
Believers in Christ are all unacceptable to God; that's why Jesus died - for all mankind. Ummmm, care to expand on that a bit? You have lost me as I am a little slow. The bible teaches that we were born into sin since the fall of man. Prior to the fall Adam and Eve had relationship with the father. "They walked and talked with him in the cool of the day." Because of sin it was necessary for man to have a redeemer so that man could be reconciled with the father and brought back into right relationship with him again. Hence Jesus Christ being the perfect sinless spotless sacrifical lamb for humanity. "No man comes to the father but by me."
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Post by Mary on Oct 18, 2014 4:54:36 GMT -5
Colossians 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 15:42:42 GMT -5
Okay Nathan, when you pray, who do you pray to? I pray to God/Elohim/Plural... The Father is God. Jesus is the Lord God my Savior. We worship God the Father, Jesus the LORD/Yahweh, and the Holy Spirit in our Sunday morning meetings.This is confusing Nathan. You pray to a plural God. This God is the Father God. Presumably this is the Trinitarian God of God the Father,God the Son and God the Holy Ghost? So all three constitute the Father God? If this is the case then God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost all make up "the Father God?" Which means that God the Father is also one part of the Father God. Jesus, God the Son is also one part of the Father God and God the Holy Ghost is also one part of the Father God. God the Father is only one third of the Father God? Jesus the Son of God, who is also God the Son, told us how to pray i.e. "Our Father, which art in Heaven......." Now Jesus who is one third of the Father God prayed to God the Father, God the Holy Ghost and to himself as God the Son. When Jesus spoke about God being his Father, he must have been saying that he himself was one third part his own Father because he could only have been praying to the Father God (ie all three co-equal parts) as his Father could not have been God the Father as scripture tells us the baby Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost i.e, God the Holy Ghost, not God the Father. So if Jesus is the Son of God he must be the Son of all three constituent parts, including himself, which make up the Father God. It is confusing to consider that God aka the Father is made up of God the Father (one third of the Father God), God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. I think I will stick with God being the Father only, Jesus is the Son of God and the Holy Spirit is the Father's divine power. I prefer things to be simple and not to be led away from the simplicity that is in Christ by fables and enticing doctrines that come from the naughty guy. By the way....he is a very naughty guy! Actually my beliefs are a lot closer to what I understood from workers and meetings that what you appear to believe?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 4:16:27 GMT -5
This is confusing Nathan. You pray to a plural God. This God is the Father God. Presumably this is the Trinitarian God of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost? So all three constitute the Father God? If this is the case then God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost all make up "the Father God?" Which means that God the Father is also one part of the Father God. Jesus, God the Son is also one part of the Father God and God the Holy Ghost is also one part of the Father God. God the Father is only one third of the Father God? Jesus the Son of God, who is also God the Son, told us how to pray i.e. "Our Father, which art in Heaven......." Now Jesus who is one third of the Father God prayed to God the Father, God the Holy Ghost and to himself as God the Son. When Jesus spoke about God being his Father, he must have been saying that he himself was one third part his own Father because he could only have been praying to the Father God (ie all three co-equal parts) as his Father could not have been God the Father as scripture tells us the baby Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost i.e, God the Holy Ghost, not God the Father. So if Jesus is the Son of God he must be the Son of all three constituent parts, including himself, which make up the Father God. It is confusing to consider that God aka the Father is made up of God the Father (one third of the Father God), God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. I think I will stick with God being the Father only, Jesus is the Son of God and the Holy Spirit is the Father's divine power. I prefer things to be simple and not to be led away from the simplicity that is in Christ by fables and enticing doctrines that come from the naughty guy. By the way....he is a very naughty guy! Actually my beliefs are a lot closer to what I understood from workers and meetings that what you appear to believe? ~~ It seems You don't understand Godhead or Who Jesus really is.
The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit= Godhead/Triune God. The Father is NOT the Son, the Son is NOT the Father or the Holy Spirit. Each God Being is FULLY God! From Everlasting to Everlasting. Jesus appeared in many forms through the centuries.... In Old Testament He came as God, Yahweh, the I AM that I AM, the Almighty God... and as a man Jesus/YAHU'SHUAH means Salvation in the New Testament. I agree, you better stick with your current belief on God the Father, and Jesus the Son of God. There is NOTHING wrong with the way you believe. It seems right now you're NOT able to comprehend the other side of the coin of Jesus, yet. Jesus is God just like the Father and the Holy Spirit.Nathan, please understand my lack of comprehension is really an ability to see the confusion that reigns when one is led away from the true simplicity that is in Christ by enticing doctrines put out there by the Devil to deceive and waylay those who try to abide in the words of Jesus. You really need to study BOTH the Old Testament and the New Testament because, irrespective of any plural or singular context which may be applied in respect of God, HE is and has always been known alternatively as The Father. GOD = Father. Therefore the "triune" God IS the Father!! No question about it. The Father/God is according to Trinitarian deception, comprises God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, all distinctly separate persons, co-equal and making up the Godhead, or God which equals the Father. Therefore all three are The Father compositely! Now which Father are you referring to when you refer to The Father....i.e. The one God who is conclusively also The Father, or one person of that one God who is God the Father? Incidentally, by the same mentality, Jesus the Son of God, by virtue of being God the Son is also the Father God! The Holy Ghost by virtue of being God the Holy Ghost is also the Father God. The 4th century nutters who dreamed up the concept of the Trinity claimed that believing in the Trinity was necessary for salvation and also agreed that to try and understand the Trinity would drive you mad, and thus explaining away the confusion and mystery as something belonging to God and above our understanding. Personally I believe in the simplicity that is in Christ and will not allow myself to be led away from that by such drivel!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 10:22:43 GMT -5
Nathan, please understand my lack of comprehension is really an ability to see the confusion that reigns when one is led away from the true simplicity that is in Christ by enticing doctrines put out there by the Devil to deceive and waylay those who try to abide in the words of Jesus. You really need to study BOTH the Old Testament and the New Testament because, irrespective of any plural or singular context which may be applied in respect of God, HE is and has always been known alternatively as The Father. GOD = Father. Therefore the "triune" God IS the Father!! No question about it. The Father/God is according to Trinitarian deception, comprises God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, all distinctly separate persons, co-equal and making up the Godhead, or God which equals the Father. Therefore all three are The Father compositely! Now which Father are you referring to when you refer to The Father....i.e. The one God who is conclusively also The Father, or one person of that one God who is God the Father? Incidentally, by the same mentality, Jesus the Son of God, by virtue of being God the Son is also the Father God! The Holy Ghost by virtue of being God the Holy Ghost is also the Father God. The 4th century nutters who dreamed up the concept of the Trinity claimed that believing in the Trinity was necessary for salvation and also agreed that to try and understand the Trinity would drive you mad, and thus explaining away the confusion and mystery as something belonging to God and above our understanding. Personally I believe in the simplicity that is in Christ and will not allow myself to be led away from that by such drivel! There is no confusion in the Christian church about the triune nature of God. There is confusion in a small number of sects (JW's, Christadephians, 2x2's) who have chosen to develop their own doctrine in a number of areas. With respect 4th century nutters did not dream up the concept of the Trinity. As I said before do you not think that Jesus, the Son of God who was completely sinless would not have rebuked Thomas when he addressed Jesus as "my Lord and my God...". Of course he would have - to take someone's name especially the name of the God of the universe would have been completely dishonest and sinful if it were not true. But there was no rebuke because Jesus was very clear who He was - He was Thomas' Lord and God. Anyway, I would encourage you to read that wonderful book "The Everlasting God" by Broughton Knox. Ross, I will read the book you recommend IF you THOROUGHLY research the true history of the Trinity and read your Bible seeking the proper context. There was no need for Jesus to rebuke Thomas when Thomas said "My Lord and my God" because Thomas saw both both Jesus the Son of God as well as The Father God in the resurrected Christ. Jesus was the "express image" of the Father. If you see Jesus you also see the Father but this does not mean that they are one and the same person. Jesus was the light from Heaven. The Father powered that light. Furthermore, the resurrected Jesus had by then been given by his God and Father, all power and authority in heaven and earth, the most supreme power and authority anyone could ever attain and by this position was reigning as Mighty God and Wise counselor. However this does not make him the Almighty Father God who remains Jesus's Father and God. Things must be viewed in context. None of the NT writers saw Jesus himself as God, rather the Son on God. It is the Son of God we must believe in with all our heart, by no other name can man be saved and this includes God the Son, God, Tinity, or whatever!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 10:31:36 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 10:44:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 17:33:58 GMT -5
Ross, I will read the book you recommend IF you THOROUGHLY research the true history of the Trinity and read your Bible seeking the proper context. There was no need for Jesus to rebuke Thomas when Thomas said "My Lord and my God" because Thomas saw both both Jesus the Son of God as well as The Father God in the resurrected Christ. Jesus was the "express image" of the Father. If you see Jesus you also see the Father but this does not mean that they are one and the same person. Jesus was the light from Heaven. The Father powered that light. Furthermore, the resurrected Jesus had by then been given by his God and Father, all power and authority in heaven and earth, the most supreme power and authority anyone could ever attain and by this position was reigning as Mighty God and Wise counselor. However this does not make him the Almighty Father God who remains Jesus's Father and God. Things must be viewed in context. None of the NT writers saw Jesus himself as God, rather the Son on God. It is the Son of God we must believe in with all our heart, by no other name can man be saved and this includes God the Son, God, Tinity, or whatever! Thanks Ram - I will read. I am not saying that the Father and Son are the same person - quite the opposite. Jesus is not Father God, he is the Son of God and God the Son. Anyway, I think you well know where I am coming from. I understand where you are coming from but cannot reconcile many verses in the Bible with your position. I'm happy to read the info though.....cheers Thanks Ross. I bought into the Trinity God the Son belief for a few years but was never happy with it. I then decided to carry out considerable research as well as much prayerfulness about it. I am very happy with my up to date convictions. I try to contextually understand all references, especially in the NT, and so far I find understanding very simple. Very much penny dropping it has been. Best wishes.
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