Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 7:42:51 GMT -5
These sort of questions have been occupying my mind lately, as I grow older and meditate more deeply. It has caused me to think about the acceptance of the gentiles into the family of God. Acts 10:15 - And the voice (of God)spoke unto him (Peter) again the second time, "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common."
This passage of scripture relates to the acceptance of the Gentiles into the family of God and I believe that it can also be applied to all sinners who have repented for their sins and have accepted Christ into their lived as their personal savior.
If I am correct in so believing, then the practices of exclusivity and shunning other believers would not be acceptable to God. Furthermore, I cannot find anything in the scripture(not even an implication) that would suggest that one can only be saved if he or she professes, or answers to an alter call in any particular religious denomination.
I was born and raised in a divided home, my father was not professing and was not particularly a church goer in any particular religious denomination either; but he never discouraged us from going to church meetings with our mother.
Jesus has said that where two or more are gathered in His name there He would be in the midst of them; I have particularly noted and noticed that He never mentioned anything about any particular religious fellowship at all. Others have introduced that notion afterwards. I do believe that if that notion was very important, Jesus would have said so because I do not think that God or Jesus are authors of confusion. I stand to be corrected here. I admit and do appreciate that there are a number of religious organization that believe in and practice exclusivity and shunning. Those are mostly man made practices well to be precise, they are some references made in scripture about certain people and situations that are to avoided: e.g. never follow the multitude to do evil; beware of false profits and such warnings. Luke 6:40-42 should provide us all with some guidance as to how we should all behave and fit into our places.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 11:13:17 GMT -5
These sort of questions have been occupying my mind lately, as I grow older and meditate more deeply. It has caused me to think about the acceptance of the gentiles into the family of God. Acts 10:15 - And the voice (of God)spoke unto him (Peter) again the second time, "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." This passage of scripture relates to the acceptance of the Gentiles into the family of God and I believe that it can also be applied to all sinners who have repented for their sins and have accepted Christ into their lived as their personal savior. If I am correct in so believing, then the practices of exclusivity and shunning other believers would not be acceptable to God. Furthermore, I cannot find anything in the scripture(not even an implication) that would suggest that one can only be saved if he or she professes, or answers to an alter call in any particular religious denomination. I was born and raised in a divided home, my father was not professing and was not particularly a church goer in any particular religious denomination either; but he never discouraged us from going to church meetings with our mother. Jesus has said that where two or more are gathered in His name there He would be in the midst of them; I have particularly noted and noticed that He never mentioned anything about any particular religious fellowship at all. Others have introduced that notion afterwards. I do believe that if that notion was very important, Jesus would have said so because I do not think that God or Jesus are authors of confusion. I stand to be corrected here. I admit and do appreciate that there are a number of religious organization that believe in and practice exclusivity and shunning. Those are mostly man made practices well to be precise, they are some references made in scripture about certain people and situations that are to avoided: e.g. never follow the multitude to do evil; beware of false profits and such warnings. Luke 6:40-42 should provide us all with some guidance as to how we should all behave and fit into our places. the practice of shunning was given here by Jesus... Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 12:54:57 GMT -5
Ok, but let's say that they are those who would say to you that you are talking the talk, but not walking the walk, that you are pointing one finger at others but the other fingers are pointing back at you because of the application of double standards and the pulling of ranks or whatever?
Let us face reality, the commandments and scriptural rules and precepts are all there to be obeyed but are they being obeyed by everyone ? is there tranparency there? That is, seen to be obeyed by everyone? How would you counter those accusations in a convincing way to dispel fears any anxieties in others? There needs to be some self examination and self assessment involved to ensure that we are on the right path that Jesus trod as our Saviour and leader. It is a narrow way, not a broad way with lots of room to manoeuvre, the little details do matter.
I raise these questions because there appears to be a lot of disquiet and lack of trust within the a fellowship by some within and by others who have left (exes), friends as well as former workers. This clearly suggests that all is not well. We need good reports not bad reports. There is much encouragement in good reports but bad reports bring discouragement and disappointments. So many complaining folks cannot be all wrong by the law of averages.
Ps. For rational's sake :en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_averages The law of averages is a layman's term for a belief that the statistical distribution of outcomes among members of a small sample must reflect the distribution of outcomes across the population as a whole.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Oct 12, 2014 13:03:24 GMT -5
1) Believers in Christ, are they all acceptable to God? ~~ I would say NOT all are acceptable according to the teachings of Jesus, and the apostles. Here are Jesus own teachings Matthew 7:21-28Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ The Two Foundations“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.” When Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at His teaching. True and false prophetsJesus said in Matthew 7:14-16 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits."
Nate What is the will of the father. IYO?
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Oct 12, 2014 13:22:51 GMT -5
Ok, but let's say that they are those who would say to you that you are talking the talk, but not walking the walk, that you are pointing one finger at others but the other fingers are pointing back at you because of the application of double standards and the pulling of ranks or whatever? Let us face reality, the commandments and scriptural rules and precepts are all there to be obeyed but are they being obeyed by everyone ? is there tranparency there? That is, seen to be obeyed by everyone? How would you counter those accusations in a convincing way to dispel fears any anxieties in others? There needs to be some self examination and self assessment involved to ensure that we are on the right path that Jesus trod as our Saviour and leader. It is a narrow way, not a broad way with lots of room to manoeuvre, the little details do matter. I raise these questions because there appears to be a lot of disquiet and lack of trust within the a fellowship by some within and by others who have left (exes), friends as well as former workers. This clearly suggests that all is not well. We need good reports not bad reports. There is much encouragement in good reports but bad reports bring discouragement and disappointments. So many complaining folks cannot be all wrong by the law of averages. When there is a problem and you followed the biblical guidlines and taken the steps for help. I would also refer back to the scriptures for your reason for how you are handling the problem and going through the correct channels to obtain the results guided by Christ. Any leader or leaders should recognise this. Acknowledge the way its been represented. In all good conscinence you have been lead by the holy spirit (maja story) You really do need to be prepared for the result to go either way. If the leaders dont respond biblically and follow through handling the situation the way it should be handled. The problem becomes spiritual. I refer to a scripture in Revelations about "confronting the spirit of jezebel. " i know from experience many times ive had to do this in different situations. The thing is when you do confront it as hard and as difficult as it is. GOD HONORS YOU FOR IT. Oops You do end up with a blessing. Before hand your mind will go through mental gymnastics telling you all kinds of things to stop you from having the courage to move forward. Hope I didnt loose you.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Oct 12, 2014 13:24:30 GMT -5
You have to stand strong and not listen to the doubts of others. Which can hinder you from being obedient.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 13:30:11 GMT -5
Bubbles, I am with you, I understand where you are coming from., thank you.
|
|
|
Post by Ross.Bowden on Oct 12, 2014 17:00:20 GMT -5
What is a disciple of Jesus? One who loves Jesus, trusts Him, follows Him and obeys Him. We need to be very careful on this thread that we don't get into all the "do's" that man would want us to do. It can be as simple as the thief on the cross who acknowledged Jesus as His Lord and Saviour. It means changing our lives (not doing things we previously did) so our that focus and priority is Christ. We know the things we struggle with and God knows. We need to take it to Him in prayer and He will change us. I've proved that over and over again - God's power will change us. If we think we haven't done enough, we surely haven't and never will. We will never be good enough to stand before a Holy God but God has made complete provision for us in Christ - our sin is covered by His righteousness. 2 Peter 1 is helpful (my accents in bold) 3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. 5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Note: "Never stumble" does not mean we will never sin. It does mean that if we keep our eyes on Jesus we will never stumble or fall away from Him.
Nate has written a lot about sacrifices and no doubt God appreciates genuine sacrifices made in order to grow His Kingdom. But if a person gives up marriage (not a biblical requirement) to go into the ministry, gives up a home (not a biblical requirement for the ministry) and doesn't have many earthly possessions (not a biblical requirement for the ministry) and doesn't acknowledge who Jesus really is, that is the Son of God and God the Son, Yahweh - the great "I AM", the sacrifice is worthless.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 8:47:22 GMT -5
The Will of God the Father is to adhere, listen, and obey the teachings of God the Son/Jesus because it came from the Father.
Nathan, can you please show me a reference in scripture where it says we are to obey the teachings of God the Son Jesus? I'm particularly interested in how you describe Jesus.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 12:05:38 GMT -5
The Will of God the Father is to adhere, listen, and obey the teachings of God the Son/Jesus because it came from the Father.Nathan, can you please show me a reference in scripture where it says we are to obey the teachings of God the Son Jesus? I'm particularly interested in how you describe Jesus. In Matthew 17:5 God the Father spoke from heaven on the mountain of transfiguration, said, “This Is My Beloved Son In Whom I Am Well Pleased. Hear Ye Him!”
John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.
Verse 14,10 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only Begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth. He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not.
God the Father called the Son, "God and Lord" Hebrews 1:8-12 But unto the Son He saith, “Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Thy Kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity; therefore God, even Thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy fellows.” And “Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of Thine hands. They shall perish, but Thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment. And as a vesture shalt Thou fold them up, and they shall be changed. But Thou art the same, and Thy years shall not fail.”
You still haven't shown me the specific term "God the Son." Also do you have an aversion to calling Jesus "the Son of God" as he is correctly called in the Bible. When God, who is the Father, said to Jesus "Thy throne o God" he was referring to Jesus's new position, having just received his inheritance from his God and Father. The Father had just given his Son his divine power the Holy Spirit, the most powerful thing imaginable, which he will use to bring all his enemies under his feat. Once he has done that, Jesus will return that power to his Father who is God. Jesus reigns today as Mighty God by virtue of his present position and inherited power, not because he is actually God, who is the Father only. In order to understand who the Word is/was, it is far better to rely on the authority of the Word for it. Take the Word's word for who the word is. The Word in its flesh form affirmed he was the Son of God!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 12:42:02 GMT -5
Nathan please explain the Biblical definition of "Divinity," NOT how theologians use the word!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 18:25:25 GMT -5
Nathan please explain the Biblical definition of "Divinity," NOT how theologians use the word! divinity[ diˈvinitē ] noun: divinity
1.the state or quality of being divine:
"Christ's divinity"
synonyms: divine nature · godliness · deity · godhead · holiness
Divinity is the state of things that come from a supernatural power or deity, such as a god, or spirit beings, and are therefore regarded as sacred and holy.
Okay, then you must agree that "divinity" is far from being confined to the personage of God, but applies to things pertaining to God, things that are "of" God, things which belong to God etc! Do you agree that Adam was created a divine being who lived a divine life consecrated to God until he rebelled? John tells us that the "Word" became flesh. It did not become fully God and fully human, It became flesh, i.e. human! Into this vessel God who is the Father poured his Spirit without measure. This is where Christ's divine nature came from. He was a partaker of the divine nature, the express image of God. Read 11 Peter ch. 1 first 7 or 8 verses to see exactly what the divine nature is! Let the Bible tell you what divinity really means. Don't listen to theologians who have their own idea. They have corrupted the true meanings of Saints, Deity, Divinity, holiness and so on. Study the Word of God to get a true meaning of what these things mean. It will greatly assist you in seeing the truth of matters. Jesus came from God but he was NOT God. His divinity should not be used to try and prove that he was actually God in person. By the way, YOU are divine by virtue of God's Spirit in you. That does not make you God in person. It does of course make you, or should make you, God by representation!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 17:13:47 GMT -5
1) Ram wrote: Okay, then you must agree that "divinity" is far from being confined to the personage of God, but applies to things pertaining to God, things that are "of" God, things which belong to God etc! Do you agree that Adam was created a divine being who lived a divine life consecrated to God until he rebelled? ~~ Adam and Eve were NOT divine. They do NOT belong to Godhead order. They are two kingdoms lower than the Divine/Godhead kingdom.Nathan, I asked you for the "Biblical definition" of "Divinity," not mans' definition. II Peter Chapter 1 v. 4 "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." By the promises of God we partake in the divine nature of God, just as Adam did and Jesus Christ et al. If we have the divine nature by the great promise of God then by virtue of possessing that divine nature we too are divine. Adam was created a living soul in the "image" of God. This was Adam's first nature. It was a divine nature, the same as God's nature. Jesus was the "express image of God" by the Spirit (God gave Jesus his Spirit without measure). The express image of God is a divine image. Don't listen to what you read outside what the Bible says. Jesus said " “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed” (John 8:31). Please abide in the words of Jesus. These are the words of the Word made flesh. Just exactly who Jesus is, is "fully" contained within his words. Abide in these and you will be his disciple. He revealed exactly and fully who he and the Father are. Don't be easily led away from the simplicity that is in Christ by fables and enticing doctrines. Jesus IS the Son of God. Don't be like Satan and turn Jesus's words around to read something different to that which is in the Bible. Jesus is the Son of God, NOT God the Son. Do not worship another, false God. It will get you nowhere! Definition of Godhead
1) Capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a. Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b. Divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind 2) A being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship 3) A person or thing of supreme value. 4) A powerful ruler.2) John tells us that the "Word" became flesh. It did not become fully God and fully human, It became flesh, i.e. human! Into this vessel God who is the Father poured his Spirit without measure. This is where Christ's divine nature came from. He was a partaker of the divine nature, the express image of God. Read 11 Peter ch. 1 first 7 or 8 verses to see exactly what the divine nature is! Let the Bible tell you what divinity really means. Don't listen to theologians who have their own idea. They have corrupted the true meanings of Saints, Deity, Divinity, holiness and so on. Study the Word of God to get a true meaning of what these things mean. It will greatly assist you in seeing the truth of matters. ~~ The Son is God: He is 100% Almighty God/Yahweh. He is 100%. Jesus is both, God the Son and the Son of man.The Word was God (John 1:1-5, 14). Jesus identified as the Word. Jesus' disciple Thomas addressed Jesus as, "My Lord and my God. (John 20:28) Jesus did not tell Thomas he was mistaken; instead Jesus accepted these titles. Other people in Scripture, notably Paul and Barnabas (Acts 14) refused to accept worship as gods. But unto the Son He (God the Father) said, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom. (Heb. 1:6-8) (Philippians 2:9-11) Wherefore God also has highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is the LORD, to the glory of God the Father. Paul, the writer of Philippians, is saying about Jesus what Isiah 45:23 says about the LORD, and then Paul concludes that Jesus is LORD, that is, the same LORD God of the Old Testament. [/font] 3) Jesus came from God but he was NOT God. His divinity should not be used to try and prove that he was actually God in person. ~~ Here are verses which prove God the Almighty the Son in the Old Testament and Jesus the son of man and God is the same Person in the Godhead.Someone asked: Is there anything to God being "our Saviour" and Jesus being "our Saviour"? One and the same? NathanB: The answer to the question is Yes. Yahweh God (the Son) and Jesus are one the same Person/Saviour. Someone wrote: The Son of God in the Old Testament: Any time the Old Testament Scriptures state that someone saw God, they saw the preincarnate Christ, Jesus himself, before he was born and lived as a human being through the virgin birth. John 1:18 states that "no man hath seen God (the Father) at any time' the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared (revealed) him." Appearances of Jesus in the Old Testament are theologically called "Christophanies". Jesus walked in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. The word "God" in the book of Genesis speaks of "Elohim" (Plural/the Trinity) but "the LORD, and "the LORD God", who spoke personally to Adam and Eve, Moses, Abraham and many of the Old Testament prophets, is the personal and visible manifestation of God, which is Jesus.The personal name of God in the Old Testament is "Yahweh", translated "LORD" (All Capitol letters) In the KJV, 1 Cor. 15:47 states that Jesus is "The Lord" from heaven, (Note:) the title "Lord" in this verse has the Greek article "the" Meaning that "The LORD", Hebrew "Yahweh" in the Old Testament, is Jesus, before He left His home in heaven and entered the stream of humanity through the virgin birth. Jesus Christ of the New Testament, and "Yahweh" of the Old Testament are one and the same! Jesus appeared personally, face to face with Moses and the Old Testament prophets of God. Ex. 33:11 where "the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend." Exodus 24:9-11 Moses and seventy elders of Israel "saw the God of Israel" Jesus is the visible manifestation of "The God of Israel"God, in the person of Jesus, and two angels walked up to Abraham's tent and had dinner with him before they destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, Genesis ch. 18 and 19. Jesus in the "Ancient of Days", in Daniel 7:9-14 (Notice the description is basically the same as the glorified Christ in Rev. 1:12-18. Jesus was in the cloud that followed the children of Israel through the Red Sea. 1 Cor. 10:4 - Ex. 14:14, 19 & 25. The "angel of God" literally means "the appearance of God" (Notice Jesus looked out of the cloud and shot the wheels off of Pharoah's chariots while they were in the dry bottom of the Red Sea!) The Scriptures clearly teach that "Jesus", of the New Testament, and "Yahweh", translated "LORD", of the Old Testament, are the same person - the Second Person of the Trinity, the "revealed", or "manifest" Person of Almighty God. 1 Cor. 15:47 states that Jesus is "THE Lord" from heaven, (Note: the name "Jesus" has the Greek article "the"). 1 Cor. 15:47 is stating that the "Lord", Hebrew "Yahweh" in the Old Testament, is Jesus, before He left his home in heaven and entered the stream of humanity through the virgin birth. Jesus Christ, of the New Testament, and "Yahweh" of the Old Testament are one and the same:Yahweh is The Creator: Isa.40:28 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Creator: John 1:3 (Jesus)Yahweh is the First and Last: Isa. 41:4 44:6 (Yahweh) Jesus is the First and Last: Rev. 1:17 2:8 & 22:13 (Jesus)Yahweh is The Lord of Lords: Deut. 10:17 (Yahweh) Jesus is the Lord of Lords: 1 Tim. 6:15 (Jesus)Yahweh is the Savior: Isa 45:21 43:11 (Yahweh) Jesus is the Saviour. John 4:42 (Jesus)Yahweh is The Light: Psa. 27:1, Isa. 60: 19-20 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Light. John 1:1-9 & 8:12 (Jesus)Yahweh is The Shepherd: Ps. 23:1 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Shepherd: John 10:11 (Jesus)Yahweh is The Glory of God: Isa. 42:8 48:11 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Glory of God: John 17:1, 5 (Jesus)Yahweh is The Redeemer: Isa. 41:14, Jer. 50:34, (Yahweh) Jesus is The Redeemer: Rev. 5:9 (Jesus)Yahweh is The Rock: Ps. 18:2 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Rock: 1 Cor. 10:4 (Jesus)Yahweh is the Creator of angels: Psa. 148:5 (Yahweh) Jesus is the Creator of Angels: Col. 1:16 (Jesus)Yahweh is The I AM: Ex. 3:14 (Yahweh) Jesus is The I AM: John 8:58 18:5,6 (Jesus)Yahweh is The Bridegroom: Isa. 62:5 Hosea 2:16 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Bridegroom: Rev. 21: 2, Matt. 25:11 (Jesus)Yahweh is The Judge: Joel 3:12 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Judge: John 5:27 Matt. 25:31-46 (Jesus)Yahweh is The Forgiver of sins: Jer. 31:34 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Forgiver of sins: Mark 2:7, 10 (Jesus)Yahweh is The Holy One: Isa. 43:3 (Yahweh) Jesus is The Holy One: Acts 3:14 (Jesus)Both Raised the dead: 1 Sam2:6 (Yahweh) John 5:21 (Jesus) Both were Worshipped by angels: Psa. 148:2 (Yahweh) Heb. 1:6 (Jesus) Both are confessed as LORD - Every knee is going to bow and every tongue confess Isa. 45:21-23 (Yahweh); Phil2:9-11 (Jesus) ~~ Hebrews 1:8. About the Son he (God the Father) says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever." The author of Hebrews' description of Jesus as the exact representation of the divine Father has parallels in a passage in Colossians 2:9-10. "in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" John's gospel quotes Jesus at length regarding his relationship with his heavenly Father. It also contains two famous attributions of divinity to Jesus. John 1:1. "the Word was God" [in context, the Word is Jesus, see Christ the Logos] John 20:28. "Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God!'" The most direct references to Jesus as God are found in various letters.* Romans 9:5. "Christ, who is God over all" * Titus 2:13. "... our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" * 2 Peter 1:1. " Our God and Savior Jesus Christ" God the Son is the second person of the Trinity in Christian theology. The doctrine of the Trinity identifies Jesus of Nazareth as God the Son, united in essence but distinct in person with regard to God the Father and God the Holy Spirit (the first and third persons of the Trinity). God the Son is co-eternal with God the Father (and the Holy Spirit), both before Creation and after the End (see Eschatology). "Son of God" draws attention to his humanity, whereas "God the Son" refers more generally to his divinity, including his pre-incarnate existence. So, in Christian theology, Jesus was always God the Son,[1] though not revealed as such until he also became the Son of God through incarnation. [/quote] Nathan, I asked you for the "Biblical definition" of "Divinity," not mans' definition. II Peter Chapter 1 v. 4 "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." By the promises of God we partake in the divine nature of God, just as Adam did and Jesus Christ et al. If we have the divine nature by the great promise of God then by virtue of possessing that divine nature we too are divine. Adam was created a living soul in the "image" of God. This was Adam's first nature. It was a divine nature, the same as God's nature. Jesus was the "express image of God" by the Spirit (God gave Jesus his Spirit without measure). The express image of God is a divine image. Don't listen to what you read outside what the Bible says. Jesus said " “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed” (John 8:31). Please abide in the words of Jesus. These are the words of the Word made flesh. Just exactly who Jesus is, is "fully" contained within his words. Abide in these and you will be his disciple. He revealed exactly and fully who he and the Father are. Don't be easily led away from the simplicity that is in Christ by fables and enticing doctrines. Jesus IS the Son of God. Don't be like Satan and turn Jesus's words around to read something different to that which is in the Bible. Jesus is the Son of God, NOT God the Son. Do not worship another, false God. It will get you nowhere!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 17:18:54 GMT -5
Nathan, please research the true history of the Trinity. It has its origins in paganism and is Heathen worship. It was not adopted into the Church until the 4th century when many pagan practices were grafted into Christianity despite the warnings of God not to follow the ways of the Heathen. The Trinity is a Pagan concept and is a false God. Worship it at your peril! Satan has deceived the world with this one.
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Oct 14, 2014 17:19:33 GMT -5
Believers in Christ are all unacceptable to God; that's why Jesus died - for all mankind.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 18:11:42 GMT -5
Nathan, please research the true history of the Trinity. It has its origins in paganism and is Heathen worship. It was not adopted into the Church until the 4th century when many pagan practices were grafted into Christianity despite the warnings of God not to follow the ways of the Heathen. The Trinity is a Pagan concept and is a false God. Worship it at your peril! Satan has deceived the world with this one. Ram - I've researched it extensively and the nature of our God ie a triune God, does not have its origins in Paganism and heathen worship. Jesus was very clear about who He was (Yahweh, the great "I AM") - it took quite a while for his apostles/disciples to realise this. Right from the early church, Christians worshipped Jesus as God. It is fair to say that it was officially codified in the 4th century largely to heresies that were undermining the deity of Christ. Pliny, a Roman wrote to the Roman Emperor in 112AD indicating that the folk worshipped Jesus as God. I would encourage you to read a book (obtain from Matthias Media - just a few dollars) called "The Everlasting God" by Broughton Knox, who was a wonderful Australian based theologian. Ross, I disagree entirely. I have researched the Trinity and am satisfied indeed that its origins are definitely pagan in design. Jesus was very clear in everything that he said and did that he was representing God the Father, not himself. Those who saw Jesus the Son of God, saw the Father, through Jesus being the express image of the Father. Not one of the Gospel or Epistle writers regarded Jesus to be actually God. They believed him quite simply to be the Son of God and warned about being led away from the simplicity of Christ by fables and enticing doctrines. All truth about who the Father and Son were was revealed by Jesus, the Word made flesh (human) who was full of truth and grace. At no time did he claim to be God, or God the Son or part of a Triune God. These things lie outside the Truth of Jesus. Those who abide in the words of Jesus are his disciples. Go outside his words at your peril. I too have read books on the subject and believe many theologians are quite simply wrong, mainly because they start of with preconceived or informed ideas as to who Jesus is and form their analysis accordingly. Jesus always spoke on behalf of the Father. He is the Father's servant/mouthpiece/Son. I believe that God is the Father, Jesus is the Son of God and that the Holy Spirit is the divine power of the Father which Jesus now has control over by virtue of having received his inheritance. All things are of God the Father, through Jesus Christ the Son of God, by the Father's divine power, ie. the Holy Spirit. Even if we were to agree that Jesus is God, the Trinity doctrine still fails as the Holy Spirit is the Father's divine power, not a separate person.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 19:15:57 GMT -5
Ross, I disagree entirely. I have researched the Trinity and am satisfied indeed that its origins are pagan in design. Jesus was very clear in everything that he said and did that he was representing God the Father, not himself. Those who saw Jesus the Son of God, saw the Father, through Jesus being the express image of the Father. Not one of the Gospel or Epistle writers regarded Jesus to be actually God. I too have read books on the subject and believe many theologians are quite simply wrong, mainly because they start of with preconceived or informed ideas as to who Jesus is and form their analysis accordingly. Jesus always spoke on behalf of the Father. He is the Father's servant/mouthpiece/Son. Thanks - how do you deal with OT Scripture such as Isaiah 9, John 1, Collosians and many, many other references to Jesus as God in the Scripture? How do you deal with Revelation 1 where the Lord God says "I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” and in the last chapter of Revelation “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." Jesus is clearly the Alpha and Omega here. Read the Everlasting God anyway - it is one of the best books I have ever read on the nature of God. To read the Book of Revelations we must pay attention to the opening verse in Chapter 1. "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him...." Jesus is speaking on behalf of God the Father. Jesus is also acting on behalf of the Father. God does everything through his Son Jesus. Jesus is the face of God, the express image of him. We can only access the invisible God through Jesus the Son of God. The Revelation is actually from God the Father acting through Jesus Christ the Son of God. How do you deal with the in between verses where the resurrected and glorified Jesus clearly refers to the Father as "His God" and shows subordination to him? Every reference in the NT which has been used by theologians to try and prove that Jesus is God has been taken out of context and do not bear up to a proper understanding of how the Gospel and Epistle writers understood Jesus to be. The fact that the resurrected Jesus received his inheritance from God, of the Holy Spirit, the most powerful force ever, means that by virtue of his position, sitting on the throne next to his Father, that Jesus human being Son of God is reigning as King of Kings, Lord of Lords as Mighty God, wise counselor, everlasting father, and Prince of Peace. Mighty God should not be confused with Almighty God, for the Father remains Jesus's God; nor should "everlasting father" (which actually means continuing) be confused with God the Father, but regarded in the same way as Father Abraham, great teacher, etc. I will hunt down the book you mentioned in due course. Many thanks for suggesting it. Here is just one random account revealing the origins of the Trinity Doctrine. There are plenty more, fuller studies available. www.ucg.org/booklet/god-trinity/how-ancient-trinitarian-gods-influenced-adoption-trinity/
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 2:05:15 GMT -5
To read the Book of Revelations we must pay attention to the opening verse in Chapter 1. "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him...." Jesus is speaking on behalf of God the Father. Jesus is also acting on behalf of the Father. God does everything through his Son Jesus. Jesus is the face of God, the express image of him. We can only access the invisible God through Jesus the Son of God. The Revelation is actually from God the Father acting through Jesus Christ the Son of God. How do you deal with the in between verses where the resurrected and glorified Jesus clearly refers to the Father as "His God" and shows subordination to him? Every reference in the NT which has been used by theologians to try and prove that Jesus is God has been taken out of context and do not bear up to a proper understanding of how the Gospel and Epistle writers understood Jesus to be. The fact that the resurrected Jesus received his inheritance from God, of the Holy Spirit, the most powerful force ever, means that by virtue of his position, sitting on the throne next to his Father, that Jesus human being Son of God is reigning as King of Kings, Lord of Lords as Mighty God, wise counselor, everlasting father, and Prince of Peace. Mighty God should not be confused with Almighty God, for the Father remains Jesus's God; nor should "everlasting father" (which actually means continuing) be confused with God the Father, but regarded in the same way as Father Abraham, great teacher, etc. I will hunt down the book you mentioned in due course. Many thanks for suggesting it. Here is just one random account revealing the origins of the Trinity Doctrine. There are plenty more, fuller studies available. www.ucg.org/booklet/god-trinity/how-ancient-trinitarian-gods-influenced-adoption-trinity/Thanks - Jesus often refers to his Father as God - as the Father is. The Father God also calls Jesus, God, in Hebrews 1:8. But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”[e] The Holy Spirit is sent by the Father, in the name of the Son. I'm not a fan of UCG doctrine - some of it seems quite whacky - but agree that many pagan influences were adopted by Christian churches in the early centuries. The book is a good read and despite where a person lands is a wonderful insight into the character of God. Ross, this must be seeN "contextually" and I have in other words already covered this. Jesus reigns today as a human being in his "glorified" body. He completed perfectly all that God sent him to do and after he was resurrected he received his inheritance, i.e. control of God's divine power, the Holy Spirit. Jesus has been crowned King of Kings. He reigns in all his majesty over all Creation, both Heaven and Earth by virtue of his new position. God has handed over the reigns to Jesus who will reign supreme until he defeats all his enemies, the last of which is death. When this has finally been accomplished, Jesus will haNd back control of the Holy Spirit to his Father who is his God, not his co-equal partner! Even the verses you have quoted clearly affirm that the Father remains Jesus's God! Jesus reigns in place of the Father and by virtue of this position rightly has the title "Mighty God" but that is NOT the same as being Almighty God. The Almighty God is still The Father. Jesus is running the Company but his Father is still the Head Yin. Jesus fully represents the mind, will and power of his Father and God and is the only one worthy to sit on God's Throne. Notice how the Almighty God "set up" Jesus above all else.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 2:12:08 GMT -5
Nathan, please research the true history of the Trinity. It has its origins in paganism and is Heathen worship. It was not adopted into the Church until the 4th century when many pagan practices were grafted into Christianity despite the warnings of God not to follow the ways of the Heathen. The Trinity is a Pagan concept and is a false God. Worship it at your peril! Satan has deceived the world with this one. I have done an extensive research on the trinity. The Trinity=Triune God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) exists from Eternity before any pagan religion came into existence!
Jesus said in John 17:5,24 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.... Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. 2) Sharon wrote: Nathan, thanks for coming up with this reminder! IT's true even I don't always remember that the triune God existed before the world ever became... and yes, I often speak of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost in the context of the creation of all things... but as a defense that the Christian triune God existing before any thing else never dawned on me.... so thank you, again!For the Children of Israel, the Jews and Christians, the concept of an Old Testament/ Christian God NEVER existed until it was established by Man in the 4th Century. Any notion that it was/has is down to it being read into the scriptures, not taught by the scriptures. NONE of the New Testament writers believed in a Triune God. Virtually all the Espistles begin by recognising God as the Father and Jesus as the Son of God in simple terms. They do not even mention the Holy Spirit in their opening addresses. It is clear from their writings that the Apostles and early disciples recognised only the Father as God and Jesus as the Son of God.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 2:18:40 GMT -5
Thanks - Jesus often refers to his Father as God - as the Father is. The Father God also calls Jesus, God, in Hebrews 1:8. But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”[e] The Holy Spirit is sent by the Father, in the name of the Son. I'm not a fan of UCG doctrine - some of it seems quite whacky - but agree that many pagan influences were adopted by Christian churches in the early centuries. The book is a good read and despite where a person lands is a wonderful insight into the character of God. Ross, this must be seeN "contextually" and I have in other words already covered this. Jesus reigns today as a human being in his "glorified" body. He completed perfectly all that God sent him to do and after he was resurrected he received his inheritance, i.e. control of God's divine power, the Holy Spirit. Jesus has been crowned King of Kings. He reigns in all his majesty over all Creation, both Heaven and Earth by virtue of his new position. God has handed over the reigns to Jesus who will reign supreme until he defeats all his enemies, the last of which is death. When this has finally been accomplished, Jesus will haNd back control of the Holy Spirit to his Father who is his God, not his co-equal partner! Even the verses you have quoted clearly affirm that the Father remains Jesus's God! Jesus reigns in place of the Father and by virtue of this position rightly has the title "Mighty God" but that is NOT the same as being Almighty God. The Almighty God is still The Father. Jesus is running the Company but his Father is still the Head Yin. Jesus fully represents the mind, will and power of his Father and God and is the only one worthy to sit on God's Throne. Notice how the Almighty God "set up" Jesus above all else. Remember too that one day you too will inherit the title of God by virtue of being a joint-heir with Jesus. Gone will be your human nature. You will have in all fullness the divine nature in your glorified body. Jesus will have pre-eminence, but we will, as the Bride of Christ, occupy a joint-heir position. A true marriage made in Heaven!
|
|
|
Post by Ross.Bowden on Oct 15, 2014 3:37:31 GMT -5
Ross, this must be seeN "contextually" and I have in other words already covered this. Jesus reigns today as a human being in his "glorified" body. He completed perfectly all that God sent him to do and after he was resurrected he received his inheritance, i.e. control of God's divine power, the Holy Spirit. Jesus has been crowned King of Kings. He reigns in all his majesty over all Creation, both Heaven and Earth by virtue of his new position. God has handed over the reigns to Jesus who will reign supreme until he defeats all his enemies, the last of which is death. When this has finally been accomplished, Jesus will haNd back control of the Holy Spirit to his Father who is his God, not his co-equal partner! Even the verses you have quoted clearly affirm that the Father remains Jesus's God! Jesus reigns in place of the Father and by virtue of this position rightly has the title "Mighty God" but that is NOT the same as being Almighty God. The Almighty God is still The Father. Jesus is running the Company but his Father is still the Head Yin. Jesus fully represents the mind, will and power of his Father and God and is the only one worthy to sit on God's Throne. Notice how the Almighty God "set up" Jesus above all else. Remember too that one day you too will inherit the title of God by virtue of being a joint-heir with Jesus. Gone will be your human nature. You will have in all fullness the divine nature in your glorified body. Jesus will have pre-eminence, but we will, as the Bride of Christ, occupy a joint-heir position. A true marriage made in Heaven! Jesus was with the Father from the beginning and created the heavens and earth. All things were created by Him, through Him and for Him (Colossians 1) When Jesus came to earth He was God in the flesh (John 1). Jesus would have most certainly rebuked Thomas when in John 20:28 Thomas said to Christ "My Lord and my God", if in fact He was not God. It would have been a blasphemous thing for Thomas to say if it was not true. There was no rebuke. Jesus would have been relieved that they had finally worked out He He was. Matthew 28:19 is critical - here the instruction is to go - in whose name? In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit ie go in the name of God. In the first verse of the Bible we have an indication of plurality, yet unity in the Godhead. The word for God in Hebrew is in the plural but the verb "created" governed by this plural subject, is in the singular. From its earliest days (in the NT) the church regarded Jesus as God and prayed to Jesus as God, and yet maintained the distinction between Jesus and the Father, and the unity of the Father and the Son in the unity of God. At the same it believed in the deity of the Spirit, whom Peter, for example, identified with God in his rebuke of Ananias. I think it is a mistake to think that the NT church grew in its doctrine of the Trinity. The church certainly grew in its ability to articulate the doctrine and to preserve it from errors of heresy, but it held the doctrine from its earliest days, because of its experience of redemption in Christ and of the presence of Christ and the Father through the Spirit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 9:54:31 GMT -5
Jesus was with the Father from the beginning and created the heavens and earth. All things were created by Him, through Him and for Him (Colossians 1) Agreed! Jesus was the firstborn of Creation. Thereafter the Father created all things "through" Jesus, by his own divine power the Holy Spirit. Simple and makes sense.
When Jesus came to earth He was God in the flesh (John 1). The Word was made flesh.Period. It was human.God poured his Spirit into his Son without measure. In Jesus the fullness of God dwelt. God dwells in you, doesn't he! That doesn't make you him!Jesus would have most certainly rebuked Thomas when in John 20:28 Thomas said to Christ "My Lord and my God", if in fact He was not God. It would have been a blasphemous thing for Thomas to say if it was not true. There was no rebuke. Jesus would have been relieved that they had finally worked out He He was. Jesus said I "he who sees me sees the Father." Jesus is the express IMAGE of God the Father. Thomas saw Jesus AND the Father because Jesus was the express image of the Father. Thomas saw Jesus as his Lord as well as seeing God (the express image of) in Jesus. God came to Earth "through" Jesus his servant Son. Jesus was his representative in every way apart from actually being God.Matthew 28:19 is critical - here the instruction is to go - in whose name? In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit ie go in the name of God. Going in the name of God means "representing" God. It would be better to look at verse 18, the preceding verse which states "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND EARTH." At this time the resurrected Jesus was acting as Almighty God and had full control of his Father's divine power, i.e. the Holy Spirit. This was the same Jesus that had been on the Earth but his position had greatly changed by way of having received his inheritance and crowning. He was now running things on behalf of his God and Father, with the fullness of the Father's divine power. By realising what verse 18 is actually saying helps us to understand much better verse 19.
In the first verse of the Bible we have an indication of plurality, yet unity in the Godhead. The word for God in Hebrew is in the plural but the verb "created" governed by this plural subject, is in the singular. Most scholars are of the opinion that the God of the OT is a singular God. At times when God said "Let us" eg "make man in our own image" this merely indicates there was someone else with God. We know who that person was.From its earliest days (in the NT) the church regarded Jesus as God and prayed to Jesus as God, and yet maintained the distinction between Jesus and the Father, and the unity of the Father and the Son in the unity of God. At the same it believed in the deity of the Spirit, whom Peter, for example, identified with God in his rebuke of Ananias. This is false. The early church regarded God as being the Father and Jesus as the Son of God. The references are too many to quote, but here are two which clearly spell things out as they were and are. 1 Cor. 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." In the second reference Jesus is praying directly to the Father and is attesting that the Father is the only true God and that eternal life can only come through knowing the Father as the only true God through Jesus Christ whom the Father had sent." These are clear, simple, words of Jesus. It behoves us well to abide in them.
Regarding Peter and Ananias. Remember by that time Jesus had sent the Holy Spirit in accordance with Acts 2. 29-36 (a great study) which dwelled within the hearts of believers. It is the Holy Ghost/Spirit which convicts and teaches us and guides us. Ananias and Sapphira had gone against their conscience which the Holy Spirit had tried to guide. I think it is a mistake to think that the NT church grew in its doctrine of the Trinity. The church certainly grew in its ability to articulate the doctrine and to preserve it from errors of heresy, but it held the doctrine from its earliest days, because of its experience of redemption in Christ and of the presence of Christ and the Father through the Spirit. True believers never accepted the doctrine of the Trinity. When that was formulated and enforced upon the common people many were persecuted and put to death for not accepting the heresy. The doctrine of the Trinity has no foundation whatsoever in the Bible and must be read into God's word not extrapolated from it. Peter, James, Paul et al, would not have a clue about the Trinity. They did know the correct relationship between Father and Son and the Father's divine power, the Holy Spirit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 10:00:43 GMT -5
For the Children of Israel, the Jews and Christians, the concept of an Old Testament/ Christian God NEVER existed until it was established by Man in the 4th Century. Any notion that it was/has is down to it being read into the scriptures, not taught by the scriptures. NONE of the New Testament writers believed in a Triune God. Virtually all the Espistles begin by recognising God as the Father and Jesus as the Son of God in simple terms. They do not even mention the Holy Spirit in their opening addresses. It is clear from their writings that the Apostles and early disciples recognised only the Father as God and Jesus as the Son of God. Here are Matthew, John, Thomas, Mary the mother of Jesus, and Paul the apostle spoke and wrote about Jesus as God, Lord, and Savior.
1) Matthew 1:23,21 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name, Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. And thou shall call his name JESUS: and he shall save His people from their sins.
2) John the apostle wrote it so clearly in John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God. He was in the World, and the World was MADE by Him, and the world knew him NOT. And the Word was made flesh and dwell among us. The Word was WITH God, and the Word WAS God.
3) The apostle Thomas said to Jesus after the resurrection, "My Lord and My God" in John 20:24-29. Jesus did NOT say don't call me Lord and God but accepted the title which Thomas called Him.
4) Mary the mother of Jesus said about the unborn Son in Luke 1:46-47 “My soul magnifies the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior."
5)Paul the apostle wrote in (I Timothy 3:16) God (Jesus) was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in glory.
(Philippians 2:5-11) Let this mind be in you, who was also in Christ Jesus, who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God. Wherefore God also has exalted him and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, that every tongue should confess Jesus Christ is the LORD, to the glory of the Father.
(Revelation 5:1-14) I (John) heard the voice of many angels, the elders, and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousands, and thousands of thousands; saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, the riches, wisdom, strength, honor, glory, and blessing.... And they sung a new song, for thou was slain, and has redeemed us to God by thy BLOOD, from every tribe, language, people and nations.
6) Jesus said in (Revelation 1:11,17) I am the first and last. The Alpha and Omega. I am the liveth, and was dead; and behold I am ALIVE forever more and have the keys of hell and of death." (Rev. 21:6,7) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.... He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his GOD, and he shall be my son.
~~ Ram, I will be speaking on the Triune God, Jesus is the Almighty God in the Old and New Testament this coming Sunday morning meeting. Last week, one of the friends spoke Jesus is God, and we discussed after the meeting what he spoke on, both of us went away praising our Lord God Savior Jesus for leaving heaven, and came to live and died for our sins. The God who created the Universe! came to live in a human body, died and save us. Wow! What an Awesome Savior we serve! I will try to share little by little what I have posted on here in our Sunday morning meetings.
Nathan, every one of the references you have quoted has been taken out of context. I have already addressed some of them in previous posts. Jesus is certainly God in many contexts such as nature, representations, characteristics etc, but he is not in actuality God. He is the Son of God who is the express image of God. God does everything through Jesus. Jesus is reigning today as Mighty God but he is still not the Almighty God who is the Father. The Father has given him all power in Heaven and Earth. He is reigning in his Father's stead, but the Father remains the God of Jesus.
Don't listen to what men say who Jesus is. Take the Word's word for it. The Word proclaimed to be the Son of God NOT God the Son. Jesus said that if we abide in his word then we are his disciples. Have your faith in who Jesus clearly said whom he was. Do not be led away from the simplicity that is in Christ by fables and enticing doctrines of men. Thoroughly research the Doctrine of the Trinity. It is of the Devil. It is a false God! Fix your heart on the only true God, who is the Father. Eternal life only comes through knowing the True God through Jesus Christ the Son of God, whom he sent.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 10:11:47 GMT -5
Believers in Christ are all unacceptable to God; that's why Jesus died - for all mankind. Ummmm, care to expand on that a bit? You have lost me as I am a little slow.
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Oct 15, 2014 10:52:11 GMT -5
Believers in Christ are all unacceptable to God; that's why Jesus died - for all mankind. Ummmm, care to expand on that a bit? You have lost me as I am a little slow. Sorry about that. Basically, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (So, in answer to the question in the thread title, no one is acceptable to God. But at least we are all in the same boat.) And then Jesus came to save all mankind; his death on the Cross is a sign and seal of God's love for humanity. I can quote more verses on this, but does that help?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 11:47:08 GMT -5
Ummmm, care to expand on that a bit? You have lost me as I am a little slow. Sorry about that. Basically, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (So, in answer to the question in the thread title, no one is acceptable to God. But at least we are all in the same boat.) And then Jesus came to save all mankind; his death on the Cross is a sign and seal of God's love for humanity. I can quote more verses on this, but does that help? Ok, I am with you, thanks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 2:14:05 GMT -5
Ram wrote: Nathan, every one of the references you have quoted has been taken out of context. I have already addressed some of them in previous posts. Jesus is certainly God in many contexts such as nature, representations, characteristics etc, but he is not in actuality God. He is the Son of God who is the express image of God. God does everything through Jesus. Jesus is reigning today as Mighty God but he is still not the Almighty God who is the Father. The Father has given him all power in Heaven and Earth. He is reigning in his Father's stead, but the Father remains the God of Jesus. Don't listen to what men say who Jesus is. Take the Word's word for it. The Word proclaimed to be the Son of God NOT God the Son. Jesus said that if we abide in his word then we are his disciples. Have your faith in who Jesus clearly said whom he was. Do not be led away from the simplicity that is in Christ by fables and enticing doctrines of men. Thoroughly research the Doctrine of the Trinity. It is of the Devil. It is a false God! Fix your heart on the only true God, who is the Father. Eternal life only comes through knowing the True God through Jesus Christ the Son of God, whom he sent. Most of the verses I showed you ARE in the Bible NOT from any theologians/men interpretation! here are Jesus own words about himself as God the Almighty. Why? don't you believe Jesus own words? When he said " I am the Lord Almighty God". What I don't understand is we have the apostles, his mother said "Jesus is My Lord, My God, and my Savior." and Jesus own words saying He is Almighty God and you refused to believe it. It seems you don't have a clear understanding on Who Jesus is or the meaning of the word God. One minute you say Jesus is God then next you say he is NOT. You're confused... one part you believe Jesus is God but the other part/side you have some doubts. Your understanding of the Godhead is NOT fully there Yet! One of these days it will turn on like a light bulb in your head... That is how revelation comes to many of us. Sharon, has shared her experience on TMB many times on Jesus is God. [/font] Nathan, please provide the references for those two statements so that I can review their context and understanding. [/quote]
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 4:02:04 GMT -5
1) Ram wrote: Nathan, please provide the references for those two statements so that I can review their context and understanding.
~~ Here are two of the verses....
1) Before! Jesus was born in Luke 2:46-47. Mary said, " My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior."
Nathan, I'm assuming you meant Luke 1.46-47? The verses you have in mind refer to the "lord God!" In verse 35 the Angel told Mary that the child born to her would be called the "Son of God." As a follow on from this The soul of Mary magnified and her spirit rejoiced in the Lord God her Saviour. God the Father saves THROUGH Jesus Christ the Saviour Son.
2) Jesus said in Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” Rev. 11:16-17 16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and Worshiped God, saying:
“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign.
Rev. 21:6,7 He that sat on the throne said unto me, "It is done, I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end." I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be MY Son."
If you are going to quote from the Book of Revelation you must first understand and take into account the fact that the Revelation of Jesus Christ IS actually the Revelation of God the Father which was handed down to Jesus. The first half sentence in the book is all importand for proper contextual understanding. Here it is..."The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him..." The revelation came from the Father. Keep in mind that the human Jesus, Son of God, has ascended to Heaven and received from his Father and his God, all power in Heaven and on Earth. He is reigning in his Father's stead in all his majesty. He is running the show. He is the only one worthy to do so as a result of his victory over the World, flesh and the Devil. By virtue of the position his Father and God has given to him he is "acting" Mighty God or Lord God Almighty, but is not Actually The Almighty God who is the Father. One day, after he defeats all his enemies, the last of which is death, he will hand back that power and authority to his Father and God. The Book of Revelation is quite clear that God is the Father and that the Father remains Jesus's God. Every true believer, through adoption, will be joint heir with Christ, or the bride of Christ, and will receive a crown of righteousness and reign with Jesus. Jesus will have the preeminence, but every believer will be like a wife to a husband with Jesus and will be similarly exalted, served day and night by the angels, etc. Gone will be human nature. We will all be part of God through the divine nature of the Holy Spirit which will fill our glorified bodies. We will all be in essence "God!" However, God will remain Jesus's God and our God, Jesus's Father and our Father!
|
|