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Post by bubbles on Oct 8, 2014 22:22:00 GMT -5
Why is Sunday School frowned upon?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 11:06:15 GMT -5
thats a good question for which i have no clear answer...maybe its becuase they are afriad of misinterpretations by children?
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Post by bubbles on Oct 9, 2014 12:30:56 GMT -5
There were a lot of children in my day. Our 2 families 11 kids.
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Post by xna on Oct 9, 2014 13:57:34 GMT -5
There were a lot of children in my day. Our 2 families 11 kids. The kids can learn a lot by listening to the adults speaking in the Sunday morning meetings. It also give the professing kids a chance in sharing the word of God with others. Sunday morning meetings is a good place to training young workers for the future in public speaking. I have heard many children raised in the truth, who became workers, Wow! they speak like pros. in gospel meetings because all of the years they sat and heard in the Sunday morning meetings, and taken parts in the meetings for years.FIXED "The kids CAN BE INDOCTRINATED EARLY AND REPEATEDLY by listening to the adults speaking in the Sunday morning meetings. " ....
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Post by bubbles on Oct 9, 2014 16:29:32 GMT -5
My bro and I play roled as kids He was convincing immitating adults.
When my children went to sunday school they learned a lot. They gained far more biblical information than I had. Without the fear.
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Post by snow on Oct 9, 2014 18:57:17 GMT -5
My bro and I play roled as kids He was convincing immitating adults. When my children went to sunday school they learned a lot. They gained far more biblical information than I had. Without the fear. I can't imagine religion being taught without some degree of fear involved though. Just being told that there is a heaven and a hell and that their God has the ability to damn them to hell for eternity, has to create some level of fear in a child. I know it did create fear in me. One of the things I dread about my grandson being raised as a Catholic Christian is that he will be told he has the ability to go to hell.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 9, 2014 19:11:38 GMT -5
My bro and I play roled as kids He was convincing immitating adults. When my children went to sunday school they learned a lot. They gained far more biblical information than I had. Without the fear. I can't imagine religion being taught without some degree of fear involved though. Just being told that there is a heaven and a hell and that their God has the ability to damn them to hell for eternity, has to create some level of fear in a child. I know it did create fear in me. One of the things I dread about my grandson being raised as a Catholic Christian is that he will be told he has the ability to go to hell. While hell is something I dont dwell on. As a child I had a lot of buried anxiety. Reading that religion was created to control us. If this is correct it has done a lot of damage to peoples lives. I cant get away from the fact that through relationship with 'the spirit' of the universe ive proved he/it exists. I ask myself these days is heaven another dimension? Yes Is hell another dimension. Possibly. Love compassion peace link people together in unity. Anger, hatred, murder dont have a place with love.
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Post by xna on Oct 9, 2014 19:41:52 GMT -5
FIXED "The kids CAN BE INDOCTRINATED EARLY AND REPEATEDLY by listening to the adults speaking in the Sunday morning meetings. " .... The kids, young people grow up in the 2x2 fellowship will NEVER forget all things they have seen, heard and learned from the Sunday meetings. It will be with them and in their hearts forever..l NathanB - I agree with this part " ... The kids, young people grow up in the 2x2 fellowship will NEVER forget all things they have seen, heard and learned from the Sunday meetings. It will be with them and in their hearts forever." - that's the problem! Remember the Jesuit maxim " Give me a child for for his first seven years and I'll give you the man" www.youtube.com/watch?v=il0lgnplcdE
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Post by matisse on Oct 9, 2014 20:06:07 GMT -5
My bro and I play roled as kids He was convincing immitating adults. When my children went to sunday school they learned a lot. They gained far more biblical information than I had. Without the fear. I can't imagine religion being taught without some degree of fear involved though. Just being told that there is a heaven and a hell and that their God has the ability to damn them to hell for eternity, has to create some level of fear in a child. I know it did create fear in me. One of the things I dread about my grandson being raised as a Catholic Christian is that he will be told he has the ability to go to hell. I taught Sunday School one year while I was involved with the local Unitarian Society. I had the kindergarten age kids and the curriculum was based on selected works of Dr. Seuss. Made sense to me!
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Post by faune on Oct 9, 2014 20:24:25 GMT -5
I can't imagine religion being taught without some degree of fear involved though. Just being told that there is a heaven and a hell and that their God has the ability to damn them to hell for eternity, has to create some level of fear in a child. I know it did create fear in me. One of the things I dread about my grandson being raised as a Catholic Christian is that he will be told he has the ability to go to hell. While hell is something I dont dwell on. As a child I had a lot of buried anxiety. Reading that religion was created to control us. If this is correct it has done a lot of damage to peoples lives. I cant get away from the fact that through relationship with 'the spirit' of the universe ive proved he/it exists. I ask myself these days is heaven another dimension? Yes Is hell another dimension. Possibly. Love compassion peace link people together in unity. Anger, hatred, murder dont have a place with love. Bubbles ~ It's strange that you should bring up the possibility of Heaven and Hell being another dimension outside of this present existence, which I also heard recently in this NDE story by Howard Storm. He was given about 5 hours left to live in a hospital in France, due to his medical condition, but lives today to tell his story. He speaks of the same as he shares his experiences in the afterlife, which changed his devotion to Christianity from atheism almost over night. He is now a present day Protestant minister from being a university art professor in the past. I found his story quite interesting. About 26 minutes into the interview, he relates a Sunday School song from early childhood, "Jesus Loves Me," as the turning point in his NDE experience. Below is the full length version and an abbreviated interview afterward for anybody who might want to explore this further. I saw both of these yesterday and found them quite interesting to watch.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKbB6b_rBHw Follow-up Interview with Howard Storm concerning his NDE
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm647n1360A Full-length video regarding Howard Storm's story
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Post by bubbles on Oct 9, 2014 21:26:33 GMT -5
Hey faune Thanks will have to wait for the pc. One of the best accounts I heard was a kiwi guy Ian McCormack and later I met him. He was a beautiful person to meet.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 9, 2014 21:27:39 GMT -5
Faune Re another dimension. It would have to be because we are spirit.
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Post by snow on Oct 9, 2014 23:24:57 GMT -5
I can't imagine religion being taught without some degree of fear involved though. Just being told that there is a heaven and a hell and that their God has the ability to damn them to hell for eternity, has to create some level of fear in a child. I know it did create fear in me. One of the things I dread about my grandson being raised as a Catholic Christian is that he will be told he has the ability to go to hell. I taught Sunday School one year while I was involved with the local Unitarian Society. I had the kindergarten age kids and the curriculum was based on selected works of Dr. Seuss. Made sense to me! That I could probably live with. Maybe?
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Post by faune on Oct 9, 2014 23:53:43 GMT -5
Hey faune Thanks will have to wait for the pc. One of the best accounts I heard was a kiwi guy Ian McCormack and later I met him. He was a beautiful person to meet. Bubbles ~ His story can be found on You-tube. He was also a young atheist of 24 years when he had his NDE experience from a night diving accident where he was bitten by a deadly Box jellyfish. His personal story is below. I'm watching it now. Thanks for sharing!
www.near-death.com/mccormack.html Ian McCormack ~ Written Story of NDE
www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-2tzS5WURk Ian McCormack ~ The Whole Story
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Post by faune on Oct 10, 2014 11:34:52 GMT -5
Here's a shorter version of Ian McCormick's story for those curious enough to watch as he discusses his life transformation as a result of a NDE. He was 24 years old at the time and an avowed atheist with no conception of God in his universe. However, his story is truly amazing and I'm sure you will be impressed with what you learn from checking it out for yourself.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-ezZ9hkD8 Ian McCormick ~ A Glimpse Into Eternity
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Post by matisse on Oct 10, 2014 13:17:33 GMT -5
Here's a shorter version of Ian McCormick's story for those curious enough to watch as he discusses his life transformation as a result of a NDE. He was 24 years old at the time and an avowed atheist with no conception of God in his universe. However, his story is truly amazing and I'm sure you will be impressed with what you learn from checking it out for yourself. Faune, 45 minutes isn't that much shorter than 72 minutes....still too long for me - at least for this subject. I have watched videos and read about other nde's and have never come across anything that couldn't be reasonably thought of as a local phenomenon within the human brain. People who want to believe that NDE's are more than that, will. The setup that this is an "avowed atheist" will tend to be significant to believers. It isn't to me. I had an amazing experience of an altered state that came about simply from changing my breathing pattern. Just me, my body, and my brain came up with it. I have no reason to doubt that people experience auditory and visual hallucinations under "near death" circumstances. I think the most simple explanation, is that NDE's are products of the brain.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 10, 2014 13:45:56 GMT -5
Faune I hadnt seen this video before. I met Ian @ a conference around 1990. what I find interesting about his experience is what I call the glory of God. Like Ian I travelled through the glory it looked identical white light with no shadow of darkness at supersonic speed (thats how it felt) many times during fasting and praying in my closet over a number of yrs. Another thing that happened the glory cloud would open and I would be looking at a scene similar to that mountains rivers green grass etc other things happened. I kept journals produced a book of the journals. I called these experiences flows of vision. At the time it was very rare for people to 'claim' this type of thing. I had pastors that und understood and protected me. people either loved me or hated me. It didnt matter. Because of the impact and not understanding what was going on. I relied a lot on the wisdom of mature christians. What transpired was I recieved gifts of revelation. REvelation when spoken was/is information I couldnt possibly have known. Every week in church during worship id see angels doing things or be shown what the holy spirit was doing. All kinds of things from words of knowledge, prophecy and words of wisdom, discerning of spirits. Depending on the church I would write it out or tell the pastor. Some pastors embraced it others were terrified others encouraged it. I travelled to a number of churches in a team over a couple of yrs. In nz and australia. I learned its wrong to promote your own ministry. I also learned that the holy spirit makes room for it when he is moving. I havent revealed this side of my life on TMB before. Im not sure why im telling you all this. It must be the right time. My life was incredibly unusual. I didnt understand why this was happening but during the yrs of God training me by reason of use I met many international ministries that encouraged the gift. Spiritual gifts are a controversial topic in a huge sector of chrisendom. Many say it doesnt happen its not God,gifts are not for today. My experience with any church is this. A church accepting and encouraging the gifts recieves incredible blessing from heaven. When the gifts and the holy spirit are allowed amasing things do happen.
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Post by faune on Oct 10, 2014 14:08:03 GMT -5
Here's a shorter version of Ian McCormick's story for those curious enough to watch as he discusses his life transformation as a result of a NDE. He was 24 years old at the time and an avowed atheist with no conception of God in his universe. However, his story is truly amazing and I'm sure you will be impressed with what you learn from checking it out for yourself. Faune, 45 minutes isn't that much shorter than 72 minutes....still too long for me - at least for this subject. I have watched videos and read about other nde's and have never come across anything that couldn't be reasonably thought of as a local phenomenon within the human brain. People who want to believe that NDE's are more than that, will. The setup that this is an "avowed atheist" will tend to be significant to believers. It isn't to me. I had an amazing experience of an altered state that came about simply from changing my breathing pattern. Just me, my body, and my brain came up with it. I have no reason to doubt that people experience auditory and visual hallucinations under "near death" circumstances. I think the most simple explanation, is that NDE's are products of the brain. Matisse ~ I have also heard that explanation many times myself. However, this video made me wonder if God doesn't give everybody a life review during their dying moments and a chance to make things right with Him, even if they were unbelievers all their lives? This young man was given a final choice himself and was transformed in body and soul as a result of his final decision when facing the reality of death. He was brought back to life to tell his story on a slab in the morgue, where he was given up as dead. I don't doubt his story, especially after seeing the 72 minutes version earlier. I honestly feel there is more to life than this physical existence on earth and there is a spiritual realm or dimension awaiting us after we die where everything will be clearer to our understanding. Somehow this video certainly speaks to me about the unending love of God and how He tries to deal with our hearts throughout this life within a dark world filled with evil intent. The real transformation in this atheist's life really spoke to me of a man with a completely changed worldview as a result of his NDE. Now that's a hard one to write off easily, IMHO?
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Post by xna on Oct 10, 2014 14:18:53 GMT -5
Pass on the torch! to the next generation and don't drop it yourself. Pass the torch to your children, and grand children... This is one of the most precious treasures a person can receive in this life time.Pick just about any religion and you hear the same story - teach your kids to grow up to keep the faith going for the next generation. That's pure indoctrination. Here is a muslim version qurancoaching.com/raising-your-child-to-be-a-muslim/Indoctrination is distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoctrination The world need more good parents which educated kids, not indoctrinated kids. Sunday School is all about indoctrination.A much better secular alternative is Camp Quest. campquest.org/ vimeo.com/72151050
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Post by matisse on Oct 10, 2014 14:21:08 GMT -5
Faune, 45 minutes isn't that much shorter than 72 minutes....still too long for me - at least for this subject. I have watched videos and read about other nde's and have never come across anything that couldn't be reasonably thought of as a local phenomenon within the human brain. People who want to believe that NDE's are more than that, will. The setup that this is an "avowed atheist" will tend to be significant to believers. It isn't to me. I had an amazing experience of an altered state that came about simply from changing my breathing pattern. Just me, my body, and my brain came up with it. I have no reason to doubt that people experience auditory and visual hallucinations under "near death" circumstances. I think the most simple explanation, is that NDE's are products of the brain. Matisse ~ I have also heard that explanation many times myself. However, this video made me wonder if God doesn't give everybody a life review during their dying moments and a chance to make things right with Him, even if they were unbelievers all their lives? This young man was given a final choice himself and was transformed in body and soul as a result of his final decision when facing the reality of death. He was brought back to life to tell his story on a slab in the morgue, where he was given up as dead. I don't doubt his story, especially after seeing the 72 minutes version earlier. I honestly feel there is more to life than this physical existence on earth and there is a spiritual realm awaiting us after we die where everything will be clearer to our understanding. Somehow this video certainly speaks to me about the unending love of God and how He tries to deal with our hearts throughout this life within a dark world filled with evil intent. The real transformation in this atheist's life really spoke to me of a man with a completely changed world view as a result of his NDE. Now that's a hard one to write off easily, IMHO? You certainly keep trying, faune.
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Post by faune on Oct 10, 2014 17:19:11 GMT -5
Faune I hadn't seen this video before. I met Ian @ a conference around 1990. what I find interesting about his experience is what I call the glory of God. Like Ian I travelled through the glory it looked identical white light with no shadow of darkness at supersonic speed (thats how it felt) many times during fasting and praying in my closet over a number of yrs. Another thing that happened the glory cloud would open and I would be looking at a scene similar to that mountains rivers green grass etc other things happened. I kept journals produced a book of the journals. I called these experiences flows of vision. At the time it was very rare for people to 'claim' this type of thing. I had pastors that und understood and protected me. people either loved me or hated me. It didnt matter. Because of the impact and not understanding what was going on. I relied a lot on the wisdom of mature christians. What transpired was I received gifts of revelation. Revelation when spoken was/is information I couldn't possibly have known. Every week in church during worship id see angels doing things or be shown what the holy spirit was doing. All kinds of things from words of knowledge, prophecy and words of wisdom, discerning of spirits. Depending on the church I would write it out or tell the pastor. Some pastors embraced it others were terrified others encouraged it. I traveled to a number of churches in a team over a couple of yrs. In NZ and Australia. I learned its wrong to promote your own ministry. I also learned that the holy spirit makes room for it when he is moving. I haven't revealed this side of my life on TMB before. I'm not sure why I'm telling you all this. It must be the right time. My life was incredibly unusual. I didn't understand why this was happening but during the yrs of God training me by reason of use I met many international ministries that encouraged the gift. Spiritual gifts are a controversial topic in a huge sector of Christendom. Many say it doesn't happen, its not God, gifts are not for today. My experience with any church is this. A church accepting and encouraging the gifts receives incredible blessing from heaven. When the gifts and the holy spirit are allowed amazing things do happen. Bubbles ~ I believe God gives everyone special talents and spiritual gifts; however, we must discover them for ourselves to enjoy a fuller life. I don't doubt your experiences any more than I doubt Ian McCormick's testimony. He surely wasn't interested in God or religion of any kind for most his life up until his NDE, which was truly life changing for him in many ways. The same goes for Howard Storm, the earlier NDE. Both were atheists for a considerable amount of time when they came so close to death and were actually considered goners with possibly only a few hours to live. Such NDE really capture my attention! Another one I can remember was by a orthopedic surgeon named Mary McNeal. I read her book after-wards, due to finding her story very captivating and shared it with my daughter in Florida.&NBS; Although some might claim all this was some form of hallucination going on due to brain deprivation of oxygen, I don't think the memories would have been recalled so vividly, if such was the actual case? It definitely was a sort of epiphany in time for all of them and transformed their lives afterward.
professing.proboards.com/thread/22133/mary-neal-md-nde-experience
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Post by xna on Oct 10, 2014 17:33:21 GMT -5
"You called indoctrination or whatever. For myself, I call that is "TEACHING"... Teach the children the gospels, the Way, the Truth and Life of Jesus as their Lord God and Savior. It's Jesus going to SAVE us/the children from the Second Death= Cast into the outer darkness/black holes? forever." ~ NathanB I applaud your for seeing that CSA should be handled by the secular authorities, and not taken to the workers for a religious solution. I agree with your thinking on CSA. As for our differing Ideas on god, I suspect we won’t agree. I once thought as you, but from questioning and study, I have come to a different conclusion. Such are the way of gods …all are jealous and want to be feared above all others. Children are (you say taught, I say indoctrinated) that: god speaks to the workers - workers speak for god, only workers speak the truth, we are special, we are the chosen, we are set apart from the worldly, god speaks to us & not the false religions, do what the workers tell you, yada, yada, yada. Many other religions also teach their children not to question authority. For example; I suspect if there was a worker who was involved in CSA he/she would use their authority to control the child, but here the child could be right to question the worker. In the case of CSA you support questioning the worker. So in this one case, you accept; questioning a worker and not following the workers teaching / indoctrination. I understand you see passing on the 2x2 way to children is the main goal of 2x2 parenting, and one should not teach children to develop critical thinking skills and a pattern of questioning as it could cause them to question the workers and the 2x2 way. I see high demand, legalistic, fundamentalist, exclusive religions like 2x2 as; harmful to children. I see blindly following authority out of fear of hell and damnation as; child abuse. Getting un-indoctrinated from an early indoctrination / child abuse is very difficult, and can take a lifetime of unlearning. That’s why religions try to get to children as young as possible before they have fully developed reasoning skills. The view that religious indoctrination is child abuse is now becoming the accepted view, like CSA. Some ex-2x2’s who remain theistic yet moved from their early 2x2 indoctrination find it very difficult; i.e. moving from a "works based faith" to a "grace based faith", or moving form "saved by works" to "saved by grace faith" is not easy because of; early and repeated indoctrination. ------------------------- More info
Religious Indoctrination journeyfree.org/childhood-religious-indoctrination/
“The most difficult thing to overcome, by far, is overcoming the intense indoctrination of early years. As an adult, for example, the fear of hell can pop up and cause panic attacks even if a person rationally rejects the doctrine. They have to learn how to label the emotion as “conditioning” instead of “truth” in the process of healing what is essentially early brainwashing. Gradually people in recovery can learn to trust their own feelings and discover critical thinking. Self-trust is the key to reclaiming one’s own life, and not easy when there has been mental abuse. However, understanding what has happened can help to disengage the power of early messages.” RELIGIOUS TRAUMA SYNDROME www.babcp.com/Review/RTS-Trauma-from-Leaving-Religion.aspx
"Understanding Religious Trauma Syndrome: Trauma from Leaving Religion . Religious Trauma Syndrome (RTS) is a function of both the chronic abuses of harmful religion and the impact of severing one’s connection with one’s faith and faith community. It can be compared to a combination of PTSD and Complex PTSD (C-PTSD). In the last article of this series, I explained some of the toxic aspects of authoritarian religions that cause long-term psychological damage (Bible-based ones in particular).
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Post by bubbles on Oct 10, 2014 17:40:24 GMT -5
NDE captivate me also. I think it because many are frightened of death so when it happens and they are given another chance @life their lives are changed for the better. You cant deny their honest account either because the meaning for them has gone so deep. There was another man american I think. He had been a pastor and helped street people. Had a car accident and the middle of his chest exploded..died went to heaven reaches the pearly gates. An angel escorted him. Then God spoke and gave him the option of continuing or coming back.
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Post by faune on Oct 10, 2014 18:15:18 GMT -5
NDE captivate me also. I think it because many are frightened of death so when it happens and they are given another chance @life their lives are changed for the better. You cant deny their honest account either because the meaning for them has gone so deep. There was another man American I think. He had been a pastor and helped street people. Had a car accident and the middle of his chest exploded, died, went to heaven, reaches the pearly gates. An angel escorted him. Then God spoke and gave him the option of continuing or coming back. Bubbles ~ You must be thinking of Don Piper, the pastor, who wrote, "90 Minutes in Heaven?" He was another one who was involved in a terrible car accident and was in a coma for some time, presumed clinically dead. However, he came back to life with a fantastic story to tell, too.
Also, I wanted to comment on your last post about the glorious light revealed to Ian McCormick and his vision of Jesus in his NDE. When he spoke of the darkness of this world, I was reminded of this passage of scripture from 2 Corinthians 4:4 relating to the same and how it speaks of Satan as being the "god of this world" and responsible for a lot of the heartache felt by all of its inhabitants, believers and unbelievers alike.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TYjVjWK3S0 Don Piper's NDE Story
biblehub.com/2_corinthians/4-4.htm 2 Corinthians 4:4
www.gotquestions.org/Satan-god-world.html How is Satan god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4)?
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Post by bubbles on Oct 10, 2014 22:49:41 GMT -5
I dont recognize the name Don Piper. That doesnt mean it wasnt him. Ahh satan who was Lucifer. God cursed him for rebellion, rising up in pride wanting the worship. GOD cast him out of heaven with 1/3 of the angels. He is known as the prince of the power of the air. Yes he rules our heaven.
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Post by Mary on Oct 11, 2014 15:57:04 GMT -5
Here's a shorter version of Ian McCormick's story for those curious enough to watch as he discusses his life transformation as a result of a NDE. He was 24 years old at the time and an avowed atheist with no conception of God in his universe. However, his story is truly amazing and I'm sure you will be impressed with what you learn from checking it out for yourself.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-ezZ9hkD8 Ian McCormick ~ A Glimpse Into Eternity
Heard Ian in person many years ago when he was at a church I attended. I think he attended the same church at the time.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 11, 2014 17:08:31 GMT -5
Here's a shorter version of Ian McCormick's story for those curious enough to watch as he discusses his life transformation as a result of a NDE. He was 24 years old at the time and an avowed atheist with no conception of God in his universe. However, his story is truly amazing and I'm sure you will be impressed with what you learn from checking it out for yourself.
Back to Near Death Experiences again, are we?
Since so many people seem to want to believe that NDE's happen, I don't think I want to follow that discussion again.
One note: Faune, you say of Ian McCormick that "He was 24 years old at the time and an avowed atheist with no conception of God in his universe."
I doubt he would have become an "avowed" anything, let alone an atheist by that age since he had, as you state, "no conception of God."
I have heard many people say they were atheist before becoming a Christian!
Actually they just hadn't thought about it one way or the other! But they do love to say that!
PS: as a nurse for 50 years, I have never seen anyone that claimed a NDE.
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Post by faune on Oct 11, 2014 21:18:07 GMT -5
Here's a shorter version of Ian McCormick's story for those curious enough to watch as he discusses his life transformation as a result of a NDE. He was 24 years old at the time and an avowed atheist with no conception of God in his universe. However, his story is truly amazing and I'm sure you will be impressed with what you learn from checking it out for yourself.
DMG ~ Yes, I'm back to NDE's again! It seems one of my favorite research topics. However, I was just quoting Ian McCormick's own words describing himself within the earlier video. However, from what he shared, I have no reason to doubt him, as he seemed to fit the general description of an atheist pretty well, IMHO? I don't know how much exposure he had to church himself as a youngster, but by the time he was 17 years old, he was pretty convinced there was no God and religious beliefs had no basis in reality. It appears his Dad was an unbeliever, too, and his Mom was the only one who professed to be a Christian.
Honestly, I don't think it takes years to come to that decision in one's life, as I knew of a few young atheists myself from college days who were totally irreligious and had no belief in any gods of any kind during college years. Actually, atheism was pretty popular during my college days in the late 1960's along with another group called the Jesus freaks.
I tend to agree with you that many who claim to be atheists at some point in their lives don't give it much thought one way or another. I believe that is a fact. However, it seems the real die-hard atheists are those who were devout Christians at one time in their lives and through their own research into Bible history became agnostic or atheistic later on. At least, that's one thing I have noticed from my own study, especially among people who were more along the line of fundamentalist Christians in the past, whose belief in the inerrancy of scripture came tumbling down from further research.
Also, I have never met anybody who has had an NDE myself in my lifetime either and I'm about 20 years younger than you. Basically, I have only read a lot about them, seen videos on You-tube, and read scientific findings relating to the same, such as "The Big Book of Near-Death Experiences" (the Ultimate Guide to What Happens When We Die) by p.m.h. Asweet thinger.
www.amazon.com/The-Big-Book-Near-Death-Experiences/dp/1571745475
www.near-death.com/asweet thinger.html
p.s. ~ It seems the computer word scrambler is at it again on TMB! LOL
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