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Post by déjà vu on Oct 7, 2014 21:31:24 GMT -5
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Post by bubbles on Oct 8, 2014 2:48:51 GMT -5
3 mins wouldnt make much difference would it? Id be worried if it was days. Imagine waking up in your coffin soil on top..now that I wouldnt like.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 8, 2014 4:05:29 GMT -5
Doesn't sound like proof of life after "Death" to me.
PEOPLE may still have consciousness after “death”. This is the link that you cited: "A study involving 2060 patients from 15 hospitals in the UK, US and Austria has found that patients experience real events for up to a three-minute period after their heart has stopped beating.
Check this out: If the time is only 3 minutes, Why shouldn't the person know what real events happened?
"How long can the brain go without oxygen before serious damage occurs?
After five to ten minutes of not breathing, you are likely to develop serious and possibly irreversible brain damage.
The one exception is when a younger person stops breathing and also becomes very cold at the same time.
This can occur when a child is suddenly plunged into very cold water and drowns.
In this situation, survival after more than 30 minutes has been known to occur."
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Post by xna on Oct 29, 2014 16:47:55 GMT -5
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Post by snow on Oct 29, 2014 20:10:14 GMT -5
I am currently reading the latest book written by Parnia. It is mostly on issues to do with resuscitation. But he does go into that study towards the end of the book. He basically is saying that if the body is cooled enough so there isn't extensive cellular death you can have people survive even after times of several hours. Now this means that the body has been having an automatic pump, oxygenated blood transferring, chilled saline drip etc. The heart can be restarted after a fairly long period of time now and if the procedure has halted the cell death and they can fix the issue that caused death to start with, there is a higher incidence of people being able to walk out without brain damage than ever before.
As far as his hypothesis about the NDE's that have been reported, I think he takes a leap. He goes into how some people who have been in a coma, or vegetative state for years have come out of it and gained a certain level of consciousness again. Because this has happened he asks 'where was the consciousness/soul for all those years when they were not aware or responding'? I think that is a leap and actually proves that the brain function is needed for awareness and consciousness. When these are compromised we see nothing. I don't understand why he seems to think it proves their is a 'self' that just lies dormant. To me, when the brain is firing right again, then we see awareness and consciousness and it's got nothing whatsoever to do with the 'self'. Anyway, this is why he seems to think that there is a functioning brain in there while they are clinically defined as 'dead' and when they are revived they sometimes remember enough to tell us what happened in that time period. He believes it has been misnamed and they should be called ADE's (actual death experiences) because clinically there is no brain activity and no heart beat which means they are dead according to our standards. He is part of an experiment in hospitals worldwide that have put images above the beds in hospitals in areas that usually have the most cardiac arrests to see if anyone notices the image while they are supposedly having an out of body experience. So far no one has been able to tell them anything. This is mostly because they have only had a couple of cardiac arrests in those rooms and none of the people who had them had an experience at all. I believe one did talk about something happening, but didn't happen to be in a room where they had the image on a shelf above the bed. In any case, he seems to link 'self' with something that interacts with the brain and is always there even when the brain is not functioning and therefore just can't communicate without the brain. To me, that means it's the brain that is required.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 29, 2014 22:09:17 GMT -5
Very interesting.
I have the book In Search of the Light by Susan J. Blackmore.
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Post by snow on Oct 30, 2014 12:46:55 GMT -5
Thanks for that xna. I have read a book by her and thought she was pretty down to earth about the understanding of these. I always respected her because she never denied that they were having these experiences, but rather, misinterpreting their meaning. From the book I have been reading I would say Parnia is also misinterpreting, but at least he is trying to scientifically test whether people do leave their bodies and see what is happening. At the moment we have lots of stories saying this and some very intriguing ones that do make one wonder but so far there is no bites on the images on those shelves. Will be interesting to watch as they are expanding the study/testing. They still don't know why people are able to tell doctors and nurses things they shouldn't have been able to see because they had no brain activity, no heartbeat and were not breathing at the time they are supposedly seeing things. I think the most important aspect of the resuscitation process is how to determine when actual irreversible brain death has occurred. This has huge implications in when organs can be harvested for transplantation in others. At the moment there is no standardized rule worldwide. Even varies from State to State. Because of their ability to slow down cell death, people have been revived many hours after they have 'died' and have been successfully revived without brain damage. So when is death irreversible. The better science gets at fixing and preventing cellular death, the more that line is likely to move.
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