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Post by xna on Oct 4, 2014 17:33:27 GMT -5
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Post by matisse on Oct 4, 2014 18:12:02 GMT -5
Mother Nature isn't that neat and tidy!
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Post by snow on Oct 4, 2014 20:16:41 GMT -5
Ok, the Canadian jurisdiction allows it. That clarifies the position. Ca is likely meaning California, not Canada. I have never heard of it happening in Canada.
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Post by matisse on Oct 4, 2014 20:22:43 GMT -5
Maybe not workers, but I am aware of at least one 2x2 elder who officiates at weddings "by the power vested" by the government. thats interesting, i've always understood it to be no one in the truth wishes to officiate incase something should go wrong with the marriage... The old brother worker, Alex McCullough is said to have explained to a judge who asked him if workers performed marriages, "We try to get people out of trouble, sir, not get them into it."
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 20:28:55 GMT -5
The Darwinian philosophy is that man is just an animal. Therefor we can take our cues from nature. Not ALL nature: people get politically selective - pick and chose, what they want nature to tell them.
Quote "Would Jesus OK same-sex marriage?" In a Word - no.
Jesus was not a man to bend to the whims of fashionable thought. Nor would he lead the moral route of mass divorce, "live together" politics, smoking, narcotics, child porn, euthanizing the most vulnerable of our society, discarding the elderly, tattooing, self-infatuation, narcissism, nihilism, glorifying violence, following celebrities or challenging moral laws.
Jesus was a narrow minded man. He made the incredibly strict moral laws of the Old Testament even stricter. He tolerated no other religion other than His own.
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Post by déjà vu on Oct 4, 2014 21:36:18 GMT -5
thats interesting, i've always understood it to be no one in the truth wishes to officiate incase something should go wrong with the marriage... The old brother worker, Alex McCullough is said to have explained to a judge who asked him if workers performed marriages, "We try to get people out of trouble, sir, not get them into it." IF IT WAS NOT FOR MARRIAGES AMONG THE FRIENDS AND THE RESULTING OF SPRING THE 2X2 WOULD BE EXTINCT BY NOW ! Heb 13:4 Marriage is Honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but w, mongers and adulterers God will judge.
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Post by matisse on Oct 4, 2014 21:59:54 GMT -5
The old brother worker, Alex McCullough is said to have explained to a judge who asked him if workers performed marriages, "We try to get people out of trouble, sir, not get them into it." IF IT WAS NOT FOR MARRIAGES AMONG THE FRIENDS AND THE RESULTING OF SPRING THE 2X2 WOULD BE EXTINCT BY NOW ! Heb 13:4 Marriage is Honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but w, mongers and adulterers God will judge. Of course! Alex was not saying people should not get married, but that the workers wouldn't be officiating at the weddings. You kind of had to know Alex....I think at least a few people on TMB did. He was a funny guy who didn't always set out to be funny.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 4, 2014 22:16:55 GMT -5
thats interesting, i've always understood it to be no one in the truth wishes to officiate incase something should go wrong with the marriage... The old brother worker, Alex McCullough is said to have explained to a judge who asked him if workers performed marriages, "We try to get people out of trouble, sir, not get them into it." That was a interesting comment!
I wonder if Alex McCullough thought about the home where shelter, food etc.was provided for him if none of the people got married & provided a home where he could stay?
I think he would have tired of sleeping in hedge rows & scrounging for roots & plants to eat!
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Post by matisse on Oct 4, 2014 22:32:37 GMT -5
The old brother worker, Alex McCullough is said to have explained to a judge who asked him if workers performed marriages, "We try to get people out of trouble, sir, not get them into it." That was a interesting comment!
I wonder if Alex McCullough thought about the home where shelter, food etc.was provided for him if none of the people got married & provided a home where he could stay?
I think he would have tired of sleeping in hedge rows & scrounging for roots & plants to eat!
He stayed in our home when I was a kid. I don't remember him being unappreciative in any way! We kids thought he was entertaining. I think the context was that he was answering questions about the 2x2's and its ministry before a judge as part of a hearing to determine whether a young professing man would be granted conscientious objector status. He was not against people getting married, but recognized that marriage was not always easy.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 2:57:26 GMT -5
As we usually think Jesus sticking to the scriptures for his beliefs, we can be sure of this one... Gen.2:24 "23The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man." 24For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. 25And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed." And according to the way women and men are made, only can one man and one woman become one....at a time! Otherwise perhaps we would see more people with both sets of sexual apparatus. To think think that a modern day Jesus would have differing thoughst and acceptance on some issues is not according to the bible either, is it? Doesn't it say about Jesus that he is the same yesterday, to day and forever?" STR, Why do you believe everything written in the bible to be true and accurate? Matt10
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 3:18:24 GMT -5
Ok, the Canadian jurisdiction allows it. That clarifies the position. Ca is likely meaning California, not Canada. I have never heard of it happening in Canada. Ok, noted.
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Post by faune on Oct 5, 2014 10:47:02 GMT -5
In Ca, anyone (I'm sure there are a few exception clauses, however) can obtain a 'for one marriage only' license, which would be 'powers vested by the government.' A number of elders out here have performed the ceremony for 2x2 folks. This is in Washington State. This is quite interesting to learn. I've always thought the F&W's didn't want to get involved in marriage ceremonies and preferred a Justice of Peace to perform the ceremony.
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Post by faune on Oct 5, 2014 10:54:38 GMT -5
thats interesting, i've always understood it to be no one in the truth wishes to officiate incase something should go wrong with the marriage... The old brother worker, Alex McCullough is said to have explained to a judge who asked him if workers performed marriages, "We try to get people out of trouble, sir, not get them into it." Matisse ~ I remember Alex McCullough from my youth back in the 1960's in Upstate New York. He could be witty at times!
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Post by matisse on Oct 5, 2014 11:07:50 GMT -5
This is in Washington State. This is quite interesting to learn. I've always thought the F&W's didn't want to get involved in marriage ceremonies and preferred a Justice of Peace to perform the ceremony. In the ceremony I was privy to, there was an obvious focus in the message on marriage being "pre-ordained by God as being between one man and one woman" (i.e. an implied rejection of gay marriage!), and as being forever (i.e. an implied rejection of divorce and remarriage). I do not know if this control over the "official message" during the ceremony has been a driver for this level of involvement in the process or not.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 5, 2014 12:13:51 GMT -5
To think think that a modern day Jesus would have differing thoughst and acceptance on some issues is not according to the bible either, is it? Doesn't it say about Jesus that he is the same yesterday, to day and forever?" STR, Why do you believe everything written in the bible to be true and accurate? Matt10 Perhaps for the same reasons you don't!
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Post by faune on Oct 5, 2014 13:25:49 GMT -5
STR, Why do you believe everything written in the bible to be true and accurate? Matt10 Perhaps for the same reasons you don't! STR ~ I believe Matt10 may be referring to the internal inconsistences noted within the Bible that would make it hard to consider inerrant or without error? Please see the articles below to see what I mean by this. It's pretty hard not to notice the many contradictions found throughout the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, which would cause one to normally question its accuracy among other things.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_consistency_of_the_Bible
infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html
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Post by rational on Oct 5, 2014 14:33:40 GMT -5
You kind of had to know Alex....I think at least a few people on TMB did. He was a funny guy who didn't always set out to be funny. One of the last times I saw Alex McCullough, he had just finished treating his poison ivy by sanding the inflamed parts. That's right, with sandpaper. He said it worked eery time. But then, he also would run his hands through stinging nettles to cure his arthritis! Had he been paired with Ralph Myers they might have created a whole new health industry!
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Post by rational on Oct 5, 2014 14:35:06 GMT -5
Is there anything in the bible that speaks against same sex marriage?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 15:36:29 GMT -5
Is there anything in the bible that speaks against same sex marriage? Yes. Matt10
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 15:40:13 GMT -5
Is there anything in the bible that speaks against same sex marriage? its speaks out against same sex behavior. one doesn't have to make a huge leap in reasoning to deduct that it includes same sex marriage...just like it doesn't mention being an accomplice to murder either but we know that is just as wrong as doing the murder itself...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 15:49:52 GMT -5
Is there anything in the bible that speaks against same sex marriage? .just like it doesn't mention being an accomplice to murder either but we know that is just as wrong as doing the murder itself... Doing murder is actually ok in the bible. Providing you're following God's little voice in your head. Or, better still, if it's God Himself doing the murdering. The murder of the Egyptian firstborn children is one of the most appalling acts of mass murder in history but apparently such behaviour is perfectly acceptable. It's quite scary really. I guess if I had a choice between a God who approved of slaughtering innocent children in their beds while they slept or a God who approved of letting two men who loved each other get a little piece of paper to say they were married, heterosexual though I am, I'd probably still go for the latter one. Matt10
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 16:09:23 GMT -5
I get from the scriptures that homosexual activity would not be approved of or blessed by Jesus, however, I also see Jesus dealing with accusers of the issue against someone the same way he dealt with the woman taken in the act of adultery. He would just say to them, "you who have no sin, may throw the first stone at them...." I firmly believe that Jesus is saying this to all of us...let us operate in this life with love for our neighbors and allow the just Judge do the judging when the Judgment Day has come...it isn't necessary to judge before that time.....If we're being "God-fearing people," We're being God-loving people! Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but to call sinners to repentance! He showed this admirably with the woman taken in adultery. He did not accuse her (that was not his purpose). He did of course tell her to "go and sin no more!" Of course the woman taken in adultery clearly had not been given a fair trial and Jesus knew that as well. It was like Jed Cooper's trial at the beginning of "Hang 'em High!"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 16:13:07 GMT -5
.just like it doesn't mention being an accomplice to murder either but we know that is just as wrong as doing the murder itself... Doing murder is actually ok in the bible. Providing you're following God's little voice in your head. Or, better still, if it's God Himself doing the murdering. The murder of the Egyptian firstborn children is one of the most appalling acts of mass murder in history but apparently such behaviour is perfectly acceptable. It's quite scary really. I guess if I had a choice between a God who approved of slaughtering innocent children in their beds while they slept or a God who approved of letting two men who loved each other get a little piece of paper to say they were married, heterosexual though I am, I'd probably still go for the latter one. Matt10 there is no doubt God was bloody in the OT but you have failed to note that the egyptians(pharoh) were killing little hebrew baby boys first, Gods actions were simple revenge for that....he has and always will be an avenging God
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 16:38:50 GMT -5
there is no doubt God was bloody in the OT but you have failed to note that the egyptians(pharoh) were killing little hebrew baby boys first, Gods actions were simple revenge for that.... Well that makes me feel a lot better. Where I come from they'd think it more honourable to take your revenge against the perpetrators rather than against other innocent victims but there you are. Matt10
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Post by Gene on Oct 5, 2014 17:12:16 GMT -5
.just like it doesn't mention being an accomplice to murder either but we know that is just as wrong as doing the murder itself... Doing murder is actually ok in the bible. Providing you're following God's little voice in your head. Or, better still, if it's God Himself doing the murdering. The murder of the Egyptian firstborn children is one of the most appalling acts of mass murder in history but apparently such behaviour is perfectly acceptable. It's quite scary really. I guess if I had a choice between a God who approved of slaughtering innocent children in their beds while they slept or a God who approved of letting two men who loved each other get a little piece of paper to say they were married, heterosexual though I am, I'd probably still go for the latter one. Matt10 Heretic.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 18:07:00 GMT -5
In Ca, anyone (I'm sure there are a few exception clauses, however) can obtain a 'for one marriage only' license, which would be 'powers vested by the government.' A number of elders out here have performed the ceremony for 2x2 folks. This is in Washington State. I understand, but several states (don't know about WA) have the same process and I was simply pointing out how one could be 'vested' and not be a minister in those states.
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Post by fred on Oct 5, 2014 18:43:03 GMT -5
This is in Washington State. I understand, but several states (don't know about WA) have the same process and I was simply pointing out how one could be 'vested' and not be a minister in those states. In Australia it is quite the thing to be married in a civil ceremony in gardens, parks, or some spot special to the couple. There are many registered marriage celebrants who have a nice little sideline doing this, and though I don't have any stats I would think nearly half of all weddings are now 'civil' (perhaps hoping the resultant union might be!!). The fellowship now marry with celebration much like a normal wedding - in the days of yore this was forbidden. Marriages took place in the registry office, girls were not to wear long dresses ("wear a dress that you can later wear to meeting"), and guests were limited to 40 persons. I think many fathers regret that those days have passed.
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Post by matisse on Oct 5, 2014 18:44:24 GMT -5
This is in Washington State. I understand, but several states (don't know about WA) have the same process and I was simply pointing out how one could be 'vested' and not be a minister in those states. Thanks, Hberry. I had looked at the WA code and knew it was different. It looks to me like one must be some kind of justice or a "regularly licensed or ordained minister, priest, imam...." The person I mentioned earlier is not a justice. On my way to looking this all up, I discovered a number of on-line routes to "ordination" in WA that claimed the recipient of the "ordination" would be able to officiate at a wedding. Here, for example, is an excerpt from the Universal Life Church Monastery's website:
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