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Post by déjà vu on Oct 3, 2014 21:36:15 GMT -5
That brings to mind an experience I had while in college. I and four professing friends went on a four day canoe trip in Michigan. Our last day was a Sunday. We'd brought our bibles and hymn books (secured in plastic bags), along with grape juice. On Sunday morning we had a meeting on the banks of the Manistee River, miles from anyone else. We passed the emblems, it was a very moving meeting--one of us was "professing" but hadn't "taken part", but did there. We were moved enough to mention it in testimony the next week--all hell broke lose. The workers (including my sister) lectured us that we weren't allowed to break bread in any setting other than one deemed appropriate by the workers. It was mind blowing. Five college students having a meeting in the woods and partaking of Christ's body was treated as a sin, because it was outside of their control.
that's outrageous !!!
we had friends visiting from Europe and camping in the Rockies we 7 of us had an (unsanctioned) Sunday meeting in our small motorhome (sans emblems) nobody ever complained about it
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 4, 2014 8:56:14 GMT -5
This likely was one of the experiences that caused Ron to learn that he "took himself too seriously." One would think if he meant the mtgs for you especially that he would have consulted with you as to the time, day and place so that stress was not part of the experience for you! As to him being in the divorce settlement, well, he shouldn't have been since he is not a trained counselor nor a lawyer! When has not being qualified ever stopped the workers from offering advice, or in my case it was orders disguised as advice. It has always been so in most workers. We noted it in the beginning workers when they were preaching about "sparing the rod and spoiling the child" to the point that "beating the truth into the children" was the will of the works transferred into the parents! Loving parents before hearing the gospel were known to completely turn 360 degrees in how they handled their responsibilities of child-rearing and many became very abusive to their children and this of course, ended up including wives! When the friends took the workers opinions as the gospel from the beginning this not only sealed their own doom but the doom of any folks coming down several generations plus making the next worker levels twice the child of hell then themselves! Jesus spoke about this type of proselytizing! The friends are the guilty parties of allowing the workers to become this powerful in their lives by asking what the workers thought they should do in this or that situation, instead of figuring things out for themselves at the Father's knee in the secret place! Thus we have ministerial staff that has allowed themselves to be put in the place that Jesus should be occupying and thus Jesus' place in the f&w's lives is rather of low percentage. Of course, this is not true of every f&w, but of enough that it has ruined the workers in keeping their heads level and not stepping into places they have no training for......
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terry
Senior Member
Posts: 328
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Post by terry on Oct 4, 2014 13:11:43 GMT -5
That brings to mind an experience I had while in college. I and four professing friends went on a four day canoe trip in Michigan. Our last day was a Sunday. We'd brought our bibles and hymn books (secured in plastic bags), along with grape juice. On Sunday morning we had a meeting on the banks of the Manistee River, miles from anyone else. We passed the emblems, it was a very moving meeting--one of us was "professing" but hadn't "taken part", but did there. We were moved enough to mention it in testimony the next week--all hell broke lose. The workers (including my sister) lectured us that we weren't allowed to break bread in any setting other than one deemed appropriate by the workers. It was mind blowing. Five college students having a meeting in the woods and partaking of Christ's body was treated as a sin, because it was outside of their control. that's outrageous !!!
we had friends visiting from Europe and camping in the Rockies we 7 of us had an (unsanctioned) Sunday meeting in our small motorhome (sans emblems) nobody ever complained about it It was the emblems that set the workers off.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 13:57:05 GMT -5
Some workers and friends are very concerned/particular about the way the emblems are handled and treated at meetings, there is tremendous respect for the representation of the body and blood of Christ. One worker at convention said that the first thing he looks for when he enters the meeting room is that the emblems are there, and also where they are located. One worker spoke about disrespect for the emblems because the table on which the emblems were placed was in the centre of the room and someone sitting near the table had their legs lapped/crossed and their shoe on the lapped leg was much too close to the emblems. He said that it had shown disrespect for the emblems.There are also some rules about the proper disposal of the bread and wine left after meetings, but it appears that such rules are not universal.I have heard of the case of a medical doctor Who declines the emblems on the ground that it is not hygienic to drink from the same cup as others with colds and coughs etc.I believe that it is the reason some other churches use separate little containers for the wine and wafers instead of a loaf of bread.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 4, 2014 15:28:26 GMT -5
That brings to mind an experience I had while in college. I and four professing friends went on a four day canoe trip in Michigan. Our last day was a Sunday. We'd brought our bibles and hymn books (secured in plastic bags), along with grape juice. On Sunday morning we had a meeting on the banks of the Manistee River, miles from anyone else. We passed the emblems, it was a very moving meeting--one of us was "professing" but hadn't "taken part", but did there. We were moved enough to mention it in testimony the next week--all hell broke lose. The workers (including my sister) lectured us that we weren't allowed to break bread in any setting other than one deemed appropriate by the workers. It was mind blowing. Five college students having a meeting in the woods and partaking of Christ's body was treated as a sin, because it was outside of their control. that's outrageous !!!
we had friends visiting from Europe and camping in the Rockies we 7 of us had an (unsanctioned) Sunday meeting in our small motorhome (sans emblems) nobody ever complained about it It was the emblems that set the workers off. When you think about it why? Do they consider they are the only ones who can lead it?
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Post by bubbles on Oct 4, 2014 15:39:17 GMT -5
Some workers and friends are very concerned/particular about the way the emblems are handled and treated at meetings, there is tremendous respect for the representation of the body and blood of Christ. One worker at convention said that the first thing he looks for when he enters the meeting room is that the emblems are there, and also where they are located. One worker spoke about disrespect for the emblems because the table on which the emblems were placed was in the centre of the room and someone sitting near the table had their legs lapped/crossed and their shoe on the lapped leg was much too close to the emblems. He said that it had shown disrespect for the emblems.There are also some rules about the proper disposal of the bread and wine left after meetings, but it appears that such rules are not universal.I have heard of the case of a medical doctor Who declines the emblems on the ground that it is not hygienic to drink from the same cup as others with colds and coughs etc.I believe that it is the reason some other churches use separate little containers for the wine and wafers instead of a loaf of bread. Yes usually the left overs are discarded in the churches ive attended. The mini cups are more practical for a huge gathering. I did see someone scull the rest of the wine once a nibble the crumbs after meeting. In a sense it is ritual. It has always been a time of inner reflective searching of hearts and the opportunity to put things right with our maker in any church service where emblems were a part of it. The bible states we can do it ascoften as we want. Wine was replaced with juice to save money I think. ( or stop the phantum tiplers) It seems legalistic to always have a leader lead the service.
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timber
Senior Member
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Post by timber on Oct 4, 2014 19:44:08 GMT -5
I sometimes get the "We missed you on Wednesday, etc". I simply say Thank you and then change the subject.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 5, 2014 1:32:13 GMT -5
I sometimes get the "We missed you on Wednesday, etc". I simply say Thank you and then change the subject. Hmm that rings a bell. I always took it too mean 'where were you?' Why would they miss me when I didnt take part. Not for 10yrs anyway. That sounds mean and synical. Im sure they meant well.
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terry
Senior Member
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Post by terry on Oct 5, 2014 20:40:42 GMT -5
It was the emblems that set the workers off. When you think about it why? Do they consider they are the only ones who can lead it? Yes that was exactly it. We weren't to partake anyplace other than one the workers had approved of. That despite what Jesus said about doing it whenever they met in rembrance.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 6, 2014 3:11:11 GMT -5
When you think about it why? Do they consider they are the only ones who can lead it? Yes that was exactly it. We weren't to partake anyplace other than one the workers had approved of. That despite what Jesus said about doing it whenever they met in rembrance. So do we follow scripture or obey workers in which case for you you would have been robbed of the blessing that happened that day.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 3:28:01 GMT -5
I sometimes get the "We missed you on Wednesday, etc". I simply say Thank you and then change the subject. Hmm that rings a bell. I always took it too mean 'where were you?' Why would they miss me when I didnt take part. Not for 10yrs anyway. That sounds mean and synical. Im sure they meant well. or do you think it just possible it was meant as was said?
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Post by bubbles on Oct 6, 2014 5:12:51 GMT -5
Hmm that rings a bell. I always took it too mean 'where were you?' Why would they miss me when I didnt take part. Not for 10yrs anyway. That sounds mean and synical. Im sure they meant well. or do you think it just possible it was meant as was said? Yes that is possible.
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timber
Senior Member
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Post by timber on Oct 6, 2014 6:38:14 GMT -5
Terry - You sinned against tradition - man's tradition. For some, it is as important as God's Word - even more important as some give more attention and reverence to it.
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Post by mdm on Oct 6, 2014 10:19:28 GMT -5
That brings to mind an experience I had while in college. I and four professing friends went on a four day canoe trip in Michigan. Our last day was a Sunday. We'd brought our bibles and hymn books (secured in plastic bags), along with grape juice. On Sunday morning we had a meeting on the banks of the Manistee River, miles from anyone else. We passed the emblems, it was a very moving meeting--one of us was "professing" but hadn't "taken part", but did there. We were moved enough to mention it in testimony the next week--all hell broke lose. The workers (including my sister) lectured us that we weren't allowed to break bread in any setting other than one deemed appropriate by the workers. It was mind blowing. Five college students having a meeting in the woods and partaking of Christ's body was treated as a sin, because it was outside of their control. We had a similar experience - there were about 20 of us camping, adults, younger folk and we had a meeting in the national park on Sunday morning. No emblems. All hell broke loose so to speak because we dared have a meeting outside an appointed place. Thankfully God is not bound by their ridiculous rules. Christian ministers would think it wonderful that Christ is being honoured and worshiped anywhere. But not the workers. The irony is that their approach to such things mean they are deemed irrelevant - the very thing they fear the most. Early workers were reacting against 'corporate worship' being confined to church buildings. Then, 'meeting in the home' became a golden calf. It shouldn't have. That young people would take the time and make effort to have a meeting while camping is beautiful and should be appreciated as evidence of sincere faith and commitment.
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Post by bitterbetty on Oct 13, 2014 16:54:28 GMT -5
Someone close to me didnt profess until their 20s. They had a young family. The bishop and his wife would ph them on the saturday night asking would they be there in the morning. It drove them nuts. They felt pressured. After months they quit. It was too much.I know when I was a child my dad would do his best to get to the mid week mission. We were a large family. The older kids went with him. I know family members who wont miss a meeting. I saw this as conforming. Is it expected? If so why? You bring up a good topic. Some thoughts on feeling pressured, (it being 'too much') and expectations. I guess the BEST case scenario is when we do things because we feel moved to for the RIGHT REASONS and because we truly want to do those things from the heart! Having said that, there are SOOOOooooo many things we do on a regular basis that we just do; not necessarily because it is from our hearts. I go and fill up my gas tank because I HAVE to, etc. I didn't always go to work because I wanted to, but because I had to....but it's much better if I went to work because I BOTH wanedt to and needed to. Does that make sense? I don't like the feeling that I might be just dragging myself to do something, but I would rather do it because I feel inspired in a good way. Also, there are many many things we would LOVE to do from our hearts, but for one reason or another we are unable to do them, such as lack of time or lack of means or lack of opportunity. (food for thought). Sometimes, yes, we do do things because it is expected, but then it's also very NICE when we discover something wonderful or get something wonderful out of it that we did NOT expect>>pleasant things from a situation we didn't expect to get pleasant things from that started from doing what we were expected to do. Life is full of surprises, I suppose. Sometimes we are surprised in different ways: We might expect something wonderful and don't get it -- or -- we might expect something just so-so and get something wonderful. Maybe the key is to keep your heart soft and open. As to feeling pressured: Doctors and nurses understand all too well what it's like to feel pressured and have a lot to live up to. Some of us are more driven to excel and be excellent than others. When we stop caring, that is not such a good place to be in...I don't know that the pressure ever goes away, but it's amazing to me the GRACE we can be given at times. In my opinion, we are ALL living under grace. I'm the kind of person who is a bit laid back in my personal life and I do well knowing I'm being held accountable. (If it were up to me, I be on eternal vacation, sleep in everyday and relax as much as possible). But because of the expectations that have been placed on me, it sort of forces me out of my relaxed almost inert state into a state of 'can-do', 'git-er-done' and accomplishment. I have a sister who is also a nurse and sometimes I wish I was more like her. She isn't such a procrastinator. But, she wishes she was more like me: more easy going and take things in stride. I don't know what the perfect way is to be, but it seems there is always a good balance to be had. Most people are too hard on themselves as it is and need to give themselves a break. We all have strengths and weaknesses. One strength of some of my co-workers throughout the years is to just be able to bring light to a situation that seems very dark and/or bleak. That is a real gift and I'll never forget anyone who brightened my day, just as I've been told over the years I have brightened others' days, though I didn't know that was what I was doing at the time. There DOES seem to be a lot of emphasis placed on meeting attendance. I try not to judge anyone. If someone cannot make it to meeting, they don't need condemnation or judgment, they need understanding, support, prayers, etc.
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Post by bitterbetty on Oct 13, 2014 16:55:45 GMT -5
Having written the above: please forgive me as my 'attendance' to this board has been rather sparse lately...I'm sure you all understand....thx
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Post by bubbles on Oct 14, 2014 1:33:33 GMT -5
Hi BB enjoyed your post. Im the kind of person who takes responsibility too seriously the result of being the eldest of 5. Re: my sibling I didnt think it fair that the bishop and wife who undoubtedly loved the family in their zeal pushed too hard. Everyone has a point when they say enough is enough. I know I do. I can be pushed a long time before I blow. Lol then I wipe the floor with everyone. It doesnt happen very often. There isnt a perfect way unless we speak of Christ. Its not a term you hear in church circles only within the 2x2 fellowship.
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Oct 14, 2014 18:59:07 GMT -5
Hi BB enjoyed your post. Im the kind of person who takes responsibility too seriously the result of being the eldest of 5. Re: my sibling I didnt think it fair that the bishop and wife who undoubtedly loved the family in their zeal pushed too hard. Everyone has a point when they say enough is enough. I know I do. I can be pushed a long time before I blow. Lol then I wipe the floor with everyone. It doesnt happen very often. There isnt a perfect way unless we speak of Christ. Its not a term you hear in church circles only within the 2x2 fellowship. Pressure, expectations, responsibilities, etc. Some of these things remind me of STRESS. And who doesn't wish to reduce stress in their lives? Granted, a certain amount of stress is just part of living life and living to its fullest. But too much stress and too much stress not dealt with in healthy ways is just not good. In my opinion, church should not stress people out. It should lift them up, encourage them, inspire them to go in positive, healthy directions. Does that mean one will never ever feel 'troubled'? No, I don't think so. The Spirit moves in various ways. Sometimes, when we read Scripture or when we go to church, we do feel pricked in our conscience. This is how we are designed. Sometimes, a guilty conscience won't let us rest until we get resolved what we need to resolve or until we settle what needs to be settled. But aside from that, most folks don't need to have a big ole load of guilt dumped on them for things that are not really sin in the eyes of God. I can liken this to two different fitness classes I took. One class gave me a really good workout, but left me feeling discouraged, deflated and totally uninspired. The other class left me feeling like I got a really good workout, but uplifted too and wanting to come back again...The difference for me was that one instructor was like a drill sargent and didn't have very good timing to the music, (which drove me nuts) and the other instructor was just more happy, upbeat, and had great timing. I sweated just as much in each class, yet what a difference between the two classes. As I recall the drill sargent instructor didn't smile much nor did she seem to enjoy much about teaching except to sort of put the students down for not trying hard enough (like her). The other more upbeat instructor smiled, seemed to enjoy what she was doing and was just more positive all the way around, but it wasn't a cake-walk class either. Both instructors were intense in their own way/manner. Both classes required work on our part. Couldn't get around that. But what a contrast between being inspired vs. discouraged! What, I ask is the point of teaching an exercise class if you don't want to inspire people to get more fit? I guess it's different strokes for different folks. But I used to teach an exercise class myself and I found out from experience that you take people where they are in their fitness level(s) and go from there. Be realistic in your expectations. If the class is too hard, people get discouraged and don't continue on. But, on the other hand, you want it to be challenging enough that their fitness levels DO increase and they get results. I'm not saying that life would be carefree and we never feel pressure or stress, but there are ways/methods to make it better and less stressful. Why stress yourself out for no good reason. Jesus said in Matthew 11 that His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Doesn't mean we don't have do anything, but our load should be eased when we are walking with the Lord, not feel as though we are just weighted down with a bunch of burdens that needn't weigh us down so much. Some churches and some preachers and some believers tend to go overboard as if compensating for - what -, I don't know. I really believe in my heart of hearts that God does not wish to weight us down so much.
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Post by bitterbetty on Oct 14, 2014 20:08:14 GMT -5
Hi BB enjoyed your post. Im the kind of person who takes responsibility too seriously the result of being the eldest of 5. Re: my sibling I didnt think it fair that the bishop and wife who undoubtedly loved the family in their zeal pushed too hard. Everyone has a point when they say enough is enough. I know I do. I can be pushed a long time before I blow. Lol then I wipe the floor with everyone. It doesnt happen very often. There isnt a perfect way unless we speak of Christ. Its not a term you hear in church circles only within the 2x2 fellowship. Pressure, expectations, responsibilities, etc. Some of these things remind me of STRESS. And who doesn't wish to reduce stress in their lives? Granted, a certain amount of stress is just part of living life and living to its fullest. But too much stress and too much stress not dealt with in healthy ways is just not good. In my opinion, church should not stress people out. It should lift them up, encourage them, inspire them to go in positive, healthy directions. Does that mean one will never ever feel 'troubled'? No, I don't think so. The Spirit moves in various ways. Sometimes, when we read Scripture or when we go to church, we do feel pricked in our conscience. This is how we are designed. Sometimes, a guilty conscience won't let us rest until we get resolved what we need to resolve or until we settle what needs to be settled. But aside from that, most folks don't need to have a big ole load of guilt dumped on them for things that are not really sin in the eyes of God. I can liken this to two different fitness classes I took. One class gave me a really good workout, but left me feeling discouraged, deflated and totally uninspired. The other class left me feeling like I got a really good workout, but uplifted too and wanting to come back again...The difference for me was that one instructor was like a drill sargent and didn't have very good timing to the music, (which drove me nuts) and the other instructor was just more happy, upbeat, and had great timing. I sweated just as much in each class, yet what a difference between the two classes. As I recall the drill sargent instructor didn't smile much nor did she seem to enjoy much about teaching except to sort of put the students down for not trying hard enough (like her). The other more upbeat instructor smiled, seemed to enjoy what she was doing and was just more positive all the way around, but it wasn't a cake-walk class either. Both instructors were intense in their own way/manner. Both classes required work on our part. Couldn't get around that. But what a contrast between being inspired vs. discouraged! What, I ask is the point of teaching an exercise class if you don't want to inspire people to get more fit? I guess it's different strokes for different folks. But I used to teach an exercise class myself and I found out from experience that you take people where they are in their fitness level(s) and go from there. Be realistic in your expectations. If the class is too hard, people get discouraged and don't continue on. But, on the other hand, you want it to be challenging enough that their fitness levels DO increase and they get results. I'm not saying that life would be carefree and we never feel pressure or stress, but there are ways/methods to make it better and less stressful. Why stress yourself out for no good reason. Jesus said in Matthew 11 that His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Doesn't mean we don't have do anything, but our load should be eased when we are walking with the Lord, not feel as though we are just weighted down with a bunch of burdens that needn't weigh us down so much. Some churches and some preachers and some believers tend to go overboard as if compensating for - what -, I don't know. I really believe in my heart of hearts that God does not wish to weight us down so much. Yes, we are made to handle a certain amount of stress and pressure. Some can take more than others. Just as our bodies are designed to handle movement, stress and pressure and our bones become stronger when some stress is put on them. One reason we are encouraged to do weight-bearing exercise! But how much is too much? And, how much is enough?
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Oct 14, 2014 20:33:14 GMT -5
Pressure, expectations, responsibilities, etc. Some of these things remind me of STRESS. And who doesn't wish to reduce stress in their lives? Granted, a certain amount of stress is just part of living life and living to its fullest. But too much stress and too much stress not dealt with in healthy ways is just not good. In my opinion, church should not stress people out. It should lift them up, encourage them, inspire them to go in positive, healthy directions. Does that mean one will never ever feel 'troubled'? No, I don't think so. The Spirit moves in various ways. Sometimes, when we read Scripture or when we go to church, we do feel pricked in our conscience. This is how we are designed. Sometimes, a guilty conscience won't let us rest until we get resolved what we need to resolve or until we settle what needs to be settled. But aside from that, most folks don't need to have a big ole load of guilt dumped on them for things that are not really sin in the eyes of God. I can liken this to two different fitness classes I took. One class gave me a really good workout, but left me feeling discouraged, deflated and totally uninspired. The other class left me feeling like I got a really good workout, but uplifted too and wanting to come back again...The difference for me was that one instructor was like a drill sargent and didn't have very good timing to the music, (which drove me nuts) and the other instructor was just more happy, upbeat, and had great timing. I sweated just as much in each class, yet what a difference between the two classes. As I recall the drill sargent instructor didn't smile much nor did she seem to enjoy much about teaching except to sort of put the students down for not trying hard enough (like her). The other more upbeat instructor smiled, seemed to enjoy what she was doing and was just more positive all the way around, but it wasn't a cake-walk class either. Both instructors were intense in their own way/manner. Both classes required work on our part. Couldn't get around that. But what a contrast between being inspired vs. discouraged! What, I ask is the point of teaching an exercise class if you don't want to inspire people to get more fit? I guess it's different strokes for different folks. But I used to teach an exercise class myself and I found out from experience that you take people where they are in their fitness level(s) and go from there. Be realistic in your expectations. If the class is too hard, people get discouraged and don't continue on. But, on the other hand, you want it to be challenging enough that their fitness levels DO increase and they get results. I'm not saying that life would be carefree and we never feel pressure or stress, but there are ways/methods to make it better and less stressful. Why stress yourself out for no good reason. Jesus said in Matthew 11 that His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Doesn't mean we don't have do anything, but our load should be eased when we are walking with the Lord, not feel as though we are just weighted down with a bunch of burdens that needn't weigh us down so much. Some churches and some preachers and some believers tend to go overboard as if compensating for - what -, I don't know. I really believe in my heart of hearts that God does not wish to weight us down so much. Yes, we are made to handle a certain amount of stress and pressure. Some can take more than others. Just as our bodies are designed to handle movement, stress and pressure and our bones become stronger when some stress is put on them. One reason we are encouraged to do weight-bearing exercise! But how much is too much? And, how much is enough? How much? It depends on the person. Each person is unique and different in how much stress they can take. Each person's body is different in how much stress it can take or how much it needs. I remember this one lady, she always seemed to be 'stressed out' and I couldn't figure out what was so stressful for her. By all appearances she sort of 'had it made'. She didn't work a stressful job. She was well provided for. She and her family enjoyed good health. They seemed to enjoy LIFE! So why so much anxiety and stress? I don't know the answer, but she told me once when I asked her how she was doing, "I've been feeling discouraged lately." She didn't go into details and I didn't ask her to, but said something like, "Hang in there." Later on, I got to thinking, "well, I guess it doesn't matter who you are, how accomplished you might be, how rich, how poor, how healthy, how unhealthy, discouragement can happen to anyone". Similarly, anyone can be stressed for any number of reasons and any kind of factor can play into it. I don't know, maybe she was just so stressed because she was so busy and simply needed a 'time out'. I still haven't figured it out. Different people do different things to cope with stress. My mother used to say that baking a batch of homemade bread helped her cope with life. There was just something about that made her feel good and trust me, it made the rest us feel good too as there is nothing quite like freshly baked homeade bread and butter... Some people want to be alone when they are stressed. Others want to be around people when they are stressed. Some want to go out and get drunk to cope with stress, others might just need to take a long walk.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 15, 2014 1:11:39 GMT -5
Pressure, expectations, responsibilities, etc. Some of these things remind me of STRESS. And who doesn't wish to reduce stress in their lives? Granted, a certain amount of stress is just part of living life and living to its fullest. But too much stress and too much stress not dealt with in healthy ways is just not good. In my opinion, church should not stress people out. It should lift them up, encourage them, inspire them to go in positive, healthy directions. Does that mean one will never ever feel 'troubled'? No, I don't think so. The Spirit moves in various ways. Sometimes, when we read Scripture or when we go to church, we do feel pricked in our conscience. This is how we are designed. Sometimes, a guilty conscience won't let us rest until we get resolved what we need to resolve or until we settle what needs to be settled. But aside from that, most folks don't need to have a big ole load of guilt dumped on them for things that are not really sin in the eyes of God. I can liken this to two different fitness classes I took. One class gave me a really good workout, but left me feeling discouraged, deflated and totally uninspired. The other class left me feeling like I got a really good workout, but uplifted too and wanting to come back again...The difference for me was that one instructor was like a drill sargent and didn't have very good timing to the music, (which drove me nuts) and the other instructor was just more happy, upbeat, and had great timing. I sweated just as much in each class, yet what a difference between the two classes. As I recall the drill sargent instructor didn't smile much nor did she seem to enjoy much about teaching except to sort of put the students down for not trying hard enough (like her). The other more upbeat instructor smiled, seemed to enjoy what she was doing and was just more positive all the way around, but it wasn't a cake-walk class either. Both instructors were intense in their own way/manner. Both classes required work on our part. Couldn't get around that. But what a contrast between being inspired vs. discouraged! What, I ask is the point of teaching an exercise class if you don't want to inspire people to get more fit? I guess it's different strokes for different folks. But I used to teach an exercise class myself and I found out from experience that you take people where they are in their fitness level(s) and go from there. Be realistic in your expectations. If the class is too hard, people get discouraged and don't continue on. But, on the other hand, you want it to be challenging enough that their fitness levels DO increase and they get results. I'm not saying that life would be carefree and we never feel pressure or stress, but there are ways/methods to make it better and less stressful. Why stress yourself out for no good reason. Jesus said in Matthew 11 that His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Doesn't mean we don't have do anything, but our load should be eased when we are walking with the Lord, not feel as though we are just weighted down with a bunch of burdens that needn't weigh us down so much. Some churches and some preachers and some believers tend to go overboard as if compensating for - what -, I don't know. I really believe in my heart of hearts that God does not wish to weight us down so much. Yes, we are made to handle a certain amount of stress and pressure. Some can take more than others. Just as our bodies are designed to handle movement, stress and pressure and our bones become stronger when some stress is put on them. One reason we are encouraged to do weight-bearing exercise! But how much is too much? And, how much is enough? BB If we are talking bones for me right now pain dictates when enough is enough. Kurtz I had a number of workers and a small number of pastors in my life. One couple stood out head and shoulders above the rest. They were both very encouraging inspiring and excellent examples of love and acceptance. They taught it but walked it as well. You felt loved encouraged and built up in your faith whenever you left them. You felt that nothing was impossible with God. They always turned a negative into a positive.
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Post by christiansburg on Oct 15, 2014 8:52:31 GMT -5
Someone close to me didnt profess until their 20s. They had a young family. The bishop and his wife would ph them on the saturday night asking would they be there in the morning. It drove them nuts. They felt pressured. After months they quit. It was too much. I know when I was a child my dad would do his best to get to the mid week mission. We were a large family. The older kids went with him. I know family members who wont miss a meeting. I saw this as conforming. Is it expected? If so why? I have never liked the idea of going to meeting just to say, "I went to meeting." I have concluded that there are some people who make their religion about just being there. As you know it goes far beyond that. It is an individual matter. I like what an older worker said years ago: "There is no rule that says we must go." Not forgetting either that New Testament writings say forsake not the assembling of yourselves together. Just because someone misses a few meeting here and there does not mean they have forsaken the assembling admonition. To me forsaking means not returning at all.
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Post by christiansburg on Oct 15, 2014 9:01:42 GMT -5
'Where two or more are gathered in my name there I am in the midst of them' Matt 18:19, 20 prayer of agreement. I do this frequently over most things practical in my life. These prayers are often answered. Ive been known to ask an atheist to agree with me "If two of you agree on earth you father in heaven will do it for you." The Name of Jesus Christ is powerful. The blood of Jesus Christ is powerful. That brings to mind an experience I had while in college. I and four professing friends went on a four day canoe trip in Michigan. Our last day was a Sunday. We'd brought our bibles and hymn books (secured in plastic bags), along with grape juice. On Sunday morning we had a meeting on the banks of the Manistee River, miles from anyone else. We passed the emblems, it was a very moving meeting--one of us was "professing" but hadn't "taken part", but did there. We were moved enough to mention it in testimony the next week--all hell broke lose. The workers (including my sister) lectured us that we weren't allowed to break bread in any setting other than one deemed appropriate by the workers. It was mind blowing. Five college students having a meeting in the woods and partaking of Christ's body was treated as a sin, because it was outside of their control. I know several men who were in Korean and would often go outside the camp to a safe quiet place and hold their Sunday meetings privately. They prayed, offered to each other their testimonies about things from the Scriptures. It helped to strengthen their bond. One of those men is in the work today and is about 87 years old. I see no problem with what you mentioned. As a teenager I remember a few Sundays when we were not able to travel 25 miles to meeting. (We were poor enough not to have money to buy gas for the car) So we did what we could and had a meeting of our own. I think God sees that kind of devotion.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 15, 2014 10:56:36 GMT -5
Thanks for your posts. The lord looks at hearts not our works and if our hearts are not for him it is just an outward show then we are lukewarm which he hates. I used to think lukewarmness was a lack of looking a certain way because I felt I had to conform in so many areas that were manmade. Dress, hair, dos and donts things that were spoken of as worldly. It made me feel I wasnt good enough. It took a long time of reading and rereading scripture,prayer and discussions with pastors and other christians to undo those strongholds in my mind. The day I understood what salvation was really about a 'free gift' with no attachments was very releasing. Accepting myself for who he created me to be and knowing he loved me as I am. Fellowshipping is just that 2 or 3 gathered in his name whether by phone or cafe or grass beach,anywhere. He is there. Breaking bread is sharing together in love.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 15, 2014 11:01:03 GMT -5
Kurtz there are a lot of people in churchs and I doubt 2x2s are any different. They go to church because its the right thing to do. They have attended since children and they pay their dues (tithes). But they have never had a heart change. How do I know? I met a lot like that.
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Post by bitterbetty on Oct 17, 2014 22:14:28 GMT -5
Yes, we are made to handle a certain amount of stress and pressure. Some can take more than others. Just as our bodies are designed to handle movement, stress and pressure and our bones become stronger when some stress is put on them. One reason we are encouraged to do weight-bearing exercise! But how much is too much? And, how much is enough? BB If we are talking bones for me right now pain dictates when enough is enough. Kurtz I had a number of workers and a small number of pastors in my life. One couple stood out head and shoulders above the rest. They were both very encouraging inspiring and excellent examples of love and acceptance. They taught it but walked it as well. You felt loved encouraged and built up in your faith whenever you left them. You felt that nothing was impossible with God. They always turned a negative into a positive. Mmmm...thank you 'bubbles' for your post! Yes, pain is a SIGNAL, is it not? And you are welcome, too. Well, I am thinking of folks that inspire as opposed to folks that DISCOURAGE. As most of you know, I am a retired nurse. I found out early on that I needed to find out a way to help people, period; constantly assessing whether my actions or in-actions were helpful or not. A lot of people, including doctors. simply do not know how MUCH a nurse is motivated to HELP. If I could I would LOVE to give a nice class lecture on what all it takes for a nurse to carry out the tasks laid before them and STILL be a positive person in the middle of it ALL. Simply put: nurses are misunderstood. And, taken for granted... A lot of people think that nurses are 'well paid' and therefore in it for the money. I take exception to that mindset and it grieves me somewhat to know that I am grossly misunderstood. Ohhhhh....., if they only knew....that I wished from the bottom of my heart to help them and ease their suffering.... and--to provide EXCELLENT care...Well, I cannot think about it too much or I will get depressed. There simply doesn't seem to be enough time...Thanks for reading what I have written...blessings to you!
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Oct 17, 2014 22:51:52 GMT -5
Kurtz there are a lot of people in churchs and I doubt 2x2s are any different. They go to church because its the right thing to do. They have attended since children and they pay their dues (tithes). But they have never had a heart change. How do I know? I met a lot like that. Bubbles: I think I can relate to exactly what you are saying... You know-either your heart is in it or it's not! Paying their dues? So sad if that is the motivation of a person's service to God! Changes within the heart? Hmmmm...there is nothing quite like that. More and more-in my life, I am looking into the 'heart' of the matter.... I don't really feel fed by the minor 'details' of the matter... I am 'fed' by the deep down... Oh, I feel so misunderstood at times, as if someone who I thought was a friend felt they shared what would be helpful and actually FEED ME!!!. But, nooooooooooo! It did NOT feed me. Therefore, I felt misunderstood, not to mention totally disengaged. I also felt SORROW at this particular LOSS. Oh Lord, if you can hear me calling: Attend unto my LOSS. For I grieve, yes I do...
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 17, 2014 23:02:34 GMT -5
BB If we are talking bones for me right now pain dictates when enough is enough. Kurtz I had a number of workers and a small number of pastors in my life. One couple stood out head and shoulders above the rest. They were both very encouraging inspiring and excellent examples of love and acceptance. They taught it but walked it as well. You felt loved encouraged and built up in your faith whenever you left them. You felt that nothing was impossible with God. They always turned a negative into a positive. Mmmm...thank you 'bubbles' for your post! Yes, pain is a SIGNAL, is it not? And you are welcome, too. Well, I am thinking of folks that inspire as opposed to folks that DISCOURAGE. As most of you know, I am a retired nurse. I found out early on that I needed to find out a way to help people, period; constantly assessing whether my actions or in-actions were helpful or not. A lot of people, including doctors. simply do not know how MUCH a nurse is motivated to HELP. If I could I would LOVE to give a nice class lecture on what all it takes for a nurse to carry out the tasks laid before them and STILL be a positive person in the middle of it ALL. Simply put: nurses are misunderstood. And, taken for granted... A lot of people think that nurses are 'well paid' and therefore in it for the money. I take exception to that mindset and it grieves me somewhat to know that I am grossly misunderstood. Ohhhhh....., if they only knew....that I wished from the bottom of my heart to help them and ease their suffering.... and--to provide EXCELLENT care...Well, I cannot think about it too much or I will get depressed. There simply doesn't seem to be enough time...Thanks for reading what I have written...blessings to you! Thank you, BB.
For those that really think that "nurses are 'well paid' and therefore in it for the money", let me tell you something.
If that was true we surely were dumb!
My retirement pay after 50 years as an RN is $129 a month. I sure can live "high off the hog" on that amount!
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