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Post by bubbles on Sept 28, 2014 5:34:56 GMT -5
Someone close to me didnt profess until their 20s. They had a young family. The bishop and his wife would ph them on the saturday night asking would they be there in the morning. It drove them nuts. They felt pressured. After months they quit. It was too much. I know when I was a child my dad would do his best to get to the mid week mission. We were a large family. The older kids went with him. I know family members who wont miss a meeting. I saw this as conforming. Is it expected? If so why?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 8:08:05 GMT -5
This subject was raised elsewhere on the net in another forum which I came across and here is an interesting reply I saw there:- Forsake not the assembling of yourselves "Finally someone brings up that verse when talking about church attendance! Good for you!! "...but exhorting one another and so much the more as you see the day approaching." The way I see it is everything in the Bible, even if it is a "suggestion," should be done. The Bible states that when two or more are gathered together (praying:) ), there is power (moreso than if a single person were to pray). Don't you want your prayers to have more power behind them with God? I do. But that's awesome that you brought that up end of quotation. I am not so sure about: "when two or more are gathered together praying, there is more power than if a single person were to pray." I certainly would like my earnest prayers(power behind them??) to be heard and answered by God. We are told in a hymn that Prayer is a mighty source of power. Ps. One can pray at home too, one can pray in the secret place as well, we do not have to go to church/meetings in order to pray; however assembling ourselves is not a bad idea as we have the opportunity to share bread/thoughts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 12:03:53 GMT -5
Someone close to me didnt profess until their 20s. They had a young family. The bishop and his wife would ph them on the saturday night asking would they be there in the morning. It drove them nuts. They felt pressured. After months they quit. It was too much. I know when I was a child my dad would do his best to get to the mid week mission. We were a large family. The older kids went with him. I know family members who wont miss a meeting. I saw this as conforming. Is it expected? If so why? i always understood it that if you were NOT going to attend a phone call would be appreciated which we have had to implement since my mother broke her shoulder and cannot attend now for several weeks.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 28, 2014 12:32:45 GMT -5
This subject was raised elsewhere on the net in another forum which I came across and here is an interesting reply I saw there:- Forsake not the assembling of yourselves "Finally someone brings up that verse when talking about church attendance! Good for you!! "...but exhorting one another and so much the more as you see the day approaching." The way I see it is everything in the Bible, even if it is a "suggestion," should be done. The Bible states that when two or more are gathered together (praying:) ), there is power (moreso than if a single person were to pray). Don't you want your prayers to have more power behind them with God? I do. But that's awesome that you brought that up end of quotation. I am not so sure about: "when two or more are gathered together praying, there is more power than if a single person were to pray." I certainly would like my earnest prayers(power behind them??) to be heard and answered by God. We are told in a hymn that Prayer is a mighty source of power. Ps. One can pray at home too, one can pray in the secret place as well, we do not have to go to church/meetings in order to pray; however assembling ourselves is not a bad idea as we have the opportunity to share bread/thoughts. Wally I think you missed the point. I understand perfectly about prayer. Agreement. It wasnt about that. Encourage and exhorting sure. This was 'where are you?'if they were a bit late. It wasnt done in love it was pushy. They had small babies. They were trying their best.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 28, 2014 12:37:46 GMT -5
One of the kindest things I heard was that we should never put expectations on people if they cancel coming to a church service. It is not our business to ask why. Just accept they cant be there that day. Make room for them. It defuses conflict.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 15:34:19 GMT -5
I once heard a worker say at a convention that the most important time we should persevere and go to meetings is when we don't feel like Going because we are feeling unwell or a bit under the weather. I don't think that Luke the physician would have agreed with him though. His point was that every time we miss a meeting we miss the chance/opportunity of receiving spiritually edifying food.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 28, 2014 17:31:47 GMT -5
I once heard a worker say at a convention that the most important time we should persevere and go to meetings is when we don't feel like Going because we are feeling unwell or a bit under the weather. I don't think that Luke the physician would have agreed with him though. His point was that every time we miss a meeting we miss the chance/opportunity of receiving spiritually edifying food. I would agree if they anointed and laid hands on the sick. Sadly they dont. Ive never heard of them praying for the sick. Luke would not have agreed. In fact id go so far as to say if Luke were here now he would rebuke and institute many changes.
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Post by déjà vu on Sept 28, 2014 18:48:19 GMT -5
One of the kindest things I heard was that we should never put expectations on people if they cancel coming to a church service. It is not our business to ask why. Just accept they cant be there that day. Make room for them. It defuses conflict. I HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU I would never ask anyone why they could not make it to church/ meeting
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 18:56:36 GMT -5
This subject was raised elsewhere on the net in another forum which I came across and here is an interesting reply I saw there:- Forsake not the assembling of yourselves "Finally someone brings up that verse when talking about church attendance! Good for you!! "...but exhorting one another and so much the more as you see the day approaching." The way I see it is everything in the Bible, even if it is a "suggestion," should be done. The Bible states that when two or more are gathered together (praying:) ), there is power (moreso than if a single person were to pray). Don't you want your prayers to have more power behind them with God? I do. But that's awesome that you brought that up end of quotation. I am not so sure about: "when two or more are gathered together praying, there is more power than if a single person were to pray." I certainly would like my earnest prayers(power behind them??) to be heard and answered by God. We are told in a hymn that Prayer is a mighty source of power. Ps. One can pray at home too, one can pray in the secret place as well, we do not have to go to church/meetings in order to pray; however assembling ourselves is not a bad idea as we have the opportunity to share bread/thoughts. Wally I think you missed the point. I understand perfectly about prayer. Agreement. It wasnt about that. Encourage and exhorting sure. This was 'where are you?'if they were a bit late. It wasnt done in love it was pushy. They had small babies. They were trying their best. i think you mean "partaker" not "wally"...
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Post by bubbles on Sept 28, 2014 20:55:23 GMT -5
Yes. Aww sorry wally.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 29, 2014 13:31:06 GMT -5
I once heard a worker say at a convention that the most important time we should persevere and go to meetings is when we don't feel like Going because we are feeling unwell or a bit under the weather. I don't think that Luke the physician would have agreed with him though. His point was that every time we miss a meeting we miss the chance/opportunity of receiving spiritually edifying food. I wonder if that worker realized that by going to meeting when you weren't feeling well, you would just spread the illness you felt to everyone else? -small children & older people included, whose immune system may be lowered?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 13:43:27 GMT -5
I once heard a worker say at a convention that the most important time we should persevere and go to meetings is when we don't feel like Going because we are feeling unwell or a bit under the weather. I don't think that Luke the physician would have agreed with him though. His point was that every time we miss a meeting we miss the chance/opportunity of receiving spiritually edifying food. I wonder if that worker realized that by going to meeting when you weren't feeling well, you would just spread the illness you felt to everyone else? -small children & older people included, whose immune system may be lowered?
I think that he meant well, but did not think about that aspect of it. He was concentrating on the spiritual well being of the individual and not necessarily a focus on the the health aspects of the individual or the gathering.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 1, 2014 5:57:46 GMT -5
"I would agree if they anointed and laid hands on the sick. Sadly they dont. Ive never heard of them praying for the sick." I've lost count how many times I have heard of multiple people praying in meetings for "those on beds of sickness". Conjures up a messy picture in the mind. Sorry I should clarify. Jesus came to heal the sick, set the captives free. He wants his people free not in bondage. He also wants us to have an abundant life. I do remember people praying for the sick sometimes in sun morning meeting or even at the dinner table. I was referring to leaders/clergy/ workers/preachers laying hands on the sick believing they will recover. Why dont they? As anointed men and women they should be bold enough to try it. It would increase their faith for starters.
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terry
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Post by terry on Oct 2, 2014 20:07:12 GMT -5
When a single parent, I was working about 35 miles away so had long days. I was also raising a few pigs and calves and chickens, along with a garden to help make ends meet. Due to the settlement RonThomke was instrumental in negotiating, I received no child support, but was paying some support to my ex.
Ron and his companion started a series of gospel mtgs on Sat afternoon about an hour away. I didn't go as I needed the time at home to take care of life. He came and lectured me on not attending especially as the meetings were really started just for my benefit. It was one of those milestones when I knew I was leaving soon.
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Post by déjà vu on Oct 2, 2014 20:35:07 GMT -5
"I would agree if they anointed and laid hands on the sick. Sadly they dont. Ive never heard of them praying for the sick." I've lost count how many times I have heard of multiple people praying in meetings for "those on beds of sickness". Conjures up a messy picture in the mind. One older worker jokingly referred to those on beds of sickness of the many worn out mattresses he had to sleep on
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Post by fred on Oct 2, 2014 20:50:54 GMT -5
When a single parent, I was working about 35 miles away so had long days. I was also raising a few pigs and calves and chickens, along with a garden to help make ends meet. Due to the settlement RonThomke was instrumental in negotiating, I received no child support, but was paying some support to my ex. Ron and his companion started a series of gospel mtgs on Sat afternoon about an hour away. I didn't go as I needed the time at home to take care of life. He came and lectured me on not attending especially as the meetings were really started just for my benefit. It was one of those milestones when I knew I was leaving soon. Similar situation here terry. Living a similar distance, travelling for work, three small children, we received a visit from the local worker (maybe a once in 5 year event) who proceeded to sit us down and read to us a letter about some unknown character who was doing all these wonderful things for the fellowship. So he reads the letter and concludes with "feed my lambs and feed my sheep", nothing more said. I must say we felt well fed! All this was in the context of not getting to the Wednesday night meeting, though we never missed a Sunday morning.
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Post by mdm on Oct 3, 2014 11:58:00 GMT -5
When a single parent, I was working about 35 miles away so had long days. I was also raising a few pigs and calves and chickens, along with a garden to help make ends meet. Due to the settlement RonThomke was instrumental in negotiating, I received no child support, but was paying some support to my ex. Ron and his companion started a series of gospel mtgs on Sat afternoon about an hour away. I didn't go as I needed the time at home to take care of life. He came and lectured me on not attending especially as the meetings were really started just for my benefit. It was one of those milestones when I knew I was leaving soon. Similar situation here terry. Living a similar distance, travelling for work, three small children, we received a visit from the local worker (maybe a once in 5 year event) who proceeded to sit us down and read to us a letter about some unknown character who was doing all these wonderful things for the fellowship. So he reads the letter and concludes with "feed my lambs and feed my sheep", nothing more said. I must say we felt well fed! All this was in the context of not getting to the Wednesday night meeting, though we never missed a Sunday morning. Your stories are heartbreaking. In very recent past, our dear professing friend in a small European country that is not on Convention or Special Meeting lists, has been chided for not coming to meetings more regularly. He actually doesn't come to meetings almost ever except for Conventions and Special Meetings. But the reason is that the closest meeting is across the border, and for him to be there on Sunday morning, he would have to leave on Saturday. Probably wouldn't get back home till Monday. The main reason why he can't do it is that he takes care of his old mother who is not able to stay by herself. Never mind that he is poor and it's possible that he couldn't even afford frequent travel. In spite of all that, he's been told by some friends that "he cannot be their brother if he doesn't come to meetings more often." Where is compassion, understanding, love? Worst of all, the overseer responsible for his area has expressed to us his opinion of this man that is slanderous, untruthful, mean and cold-hearted. He doesn't even know him well if at all, but bases his opinion on gossip. That anybody would gossip and spread such rumors about our friend is incomprehensible, as he is such a humble and simple man. There is an element of meanness that must come from legalism. Legalism squeezes out the last drop of charity (love) and fills the empty space with judgmentalism.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 3, 2014 13:58:19 GMT -5
This subject was raised elsewhere on the net in another forum which I came across and here is an interesting reply I saw there:- Forsake not the assembling of yourselves "Finally someone brings up that verse when talking about church attendance! Good for you!! "...but exhorting one another and so much the more as you see the day approaching." The way I see it is everything in the Bible, even if it is a "suggestion," should be done. The Bible states that when two or more are gathered together (praying:) ), there is power (moreso than if a single person were to pray). Don't you want your prayers to have more power behind them with God? I do. But that's awesome that you brought that up end of quotation. I am not so sure about: "when two or more are gathered together praying, there is more power than if a single person were to pray." I certainly would like my earnest prayers(power behind them??) to be heard and answered by God. We are told in a hymn that Prayer is a mighty source of power. Ps. One can pray at home too, one can pray in the secret place as well, we do not have to go to church/meetings in order to pray; however assembling ourselves is not a bad idea as we have the opportunity to share bread/thoughts. 'Where two or more are gathered in my name there I am in the midst of them' Matt 18:19, 20 prayer of agreement. I do this frequently over most things practical in my life. These prayers are often answered. Ive been known to ask an atheist to agree with me "If two of you agree on earth you father in heaven will do it for you." The Name of Jesus Christ is powerful. The blood of Jesus Christ is powerful.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 3, 2014 13:59:55 GMT -5
"I would agree if they anointed and laid hands on the sick. Sadly they dont. Ive never heard of them praying for the sick." I've lost count how many times I have heard of multiple people praying in meetings for "those on beds of sickness". Conjures up a messy picture in the mind. One older worker jokingly referred to those on beds of sickness of the many worn out mattresses he had to sleep on Sick joke imo
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Post by bubbles on Oct 3, 2014 14:03:02 GMT -5
When a single parent, I was working about 35 miles away so had long days. I was also raising a few pigs and calves and chickens, along with a garden to help make ends meet. Due to the settlement RonThomke was instrumental in negotiating, I received no child support, but was paying some support to my ex. Ron and his companion started a series of gospel mtgs on Sat afternoon about an hour away. I didn't go as I needed the time at home to take care of life. He came and lectured me on not attending especially as the meetings were really started just for my benefit. It was one of those milestones when I knew I was leaving soon. Similar situation here terry. Living a similar distance, travelling for work, three small children, we received a visit from the local worker (maybe a once in 5 year event) who proceeded to sit us down and read to us a letter about some unknown character who was doing all these wonderful things for the fellowship. So he reads the letter and concludes with "feed my lambs and feed my sheep", nothing more said. I must say we felt well fed! All this was in the context of not getting to the Wednesday night meeting, though we never missed a Sunday morning. There was a comment among young people if you werent at every meeting you were on your way out. I know people that never miss a meeting. To me that is an unrealistic pressure. On the flip side when god is moving in a church everyone cant wait to be there.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 3, 2014 14:10:54 GMT -5
I wonder if that worker realized that by going to meeting when you weren't feeling well, you would just spread the illness you felt to everyone else? -small children & older people included, whose immune system may be lowered?
I think that he meant well, but did not think about that aspect of it. He was concentrating on the spiritual well being of the individual and not necessarily a focus on the the health aspects of the individual or the gathering. Never-the-less, you quoted the worker as saying, "we don't feel like Going because we are feeling unwell or a bit under the weather." To me that means physical side & not spiritual.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 14:21:02 GMT -5
I think that he meant well, but did not think about that aspect of it. He was concentrating on the spiritual well being of the individual and not necessarily a focus on the the health aspects of the individual or the gathering. Never-the-less, you quoted the worker as saying, "we don't feel like Going because we are feeling unwell or a bit under the weather." To me that means physical side & not spiritual.
I agree.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 3, 2014 16:07:10 GMT -5
I once heard a worker say at a convention that the most important time we should persevere and go to meetings is when we don't feel like Going because we are feeling unwell or a bit under the weather. I don't think that Luke the physician would have agreed with him though. His point was that every time we miss a meeting we miss the chance/opportunity of receiving spiritually edifying food. I would agree if they anointed and laid hands on the sick. Sadly they dont. Ive never heard of them praying for the sick. Luke would not have agreed. In fact id go so far as to say if Luke were here now he would rebuke and institute many changes. I have never known of a worker to offer prayer at a hospital bedside. And I have seen the distaste on their faces when a patient asked if they minded to pray for them or with them! This seemed to make them very ill at ease! My thought on this would be, the more they do such things, the easier it becomes to do and they would soon see the positive results thereof! I know of no other religious bunch who refuses to pray for people in the hospital.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 3, 2014 16:11:31 GMT -5
When a single parent, I was working about 35 miles away so had long days. I was also raising a few pigs and calves and chickens, along with a garden to help make ends meet. Due to the settlement RonThomke was instrumental in negotiating, I received no child support, but was paying some support to my ex. Ron and his companion started a series of gospel mtgs on Sat afternoon about an hour away. I didn't go as I needed the time at home to take care of life. He came and lectured me on not attending especially as the meetings were really started just for my benefit. It was one of those milestones when I knew I was leaving soon. This likely was one of the experiences that caused Ron to learn that he "took himself too seriously." One would think if he meant the mtgs for you especially that he would have consulted with you as to the time, day and place so that stress was not part of the experience for you! As to him being in the divorce settlement, well, he shouldn't have been since he is not a trained counselor nor a lawyer!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 3, 2014 16:17:41 GMT -5
Similar situation here terry. Living a similar distance, travelling for work, three small children, we received a visit from the local worker (maybe a once in 5 year event) who proceeded to sit us down and read to us a letter about some unknown character who was doing all these wonderful things for the fellowship. So he reads the letter and concludes with "feed my lambs and feed my sheep", nothing more said. I must say we felt well fed! All this was in the context of not getting to the Wednesday night meeting, though we never missed a Sunday morning. Your stories are heartbreaking. In very recent past, our dear professing friend in a small European country that is not on Convention or Special Meeting lists, has been chided for not coming to meetings more regularly. He actually doesn't come to meetings almost ever except for Conventions and Special Meetings. But the reason is that the closest meeting is across the border, and for him to be there on Sunday morning, he would have to leave on Saturday. Probably wouldn't get back home till Monday. The main reason why he can't do it is that he takes care of his old mother who is not able to stay by herself. Never mind that he is poor and it's possible that he couldn't even afford frequent travel. In spite of all that, he's been told by some friends that "he cannot be their brother if he doesn't come to meetings more often." Where is compassion, understanding, love? Worst of all, the overseer responsible for his area has expressed to us his opinion of this man that is slanderous, untruthful, mean and cold-hearted. He doesn't even know him well if at all, but bases his opinion on gossip. That anybody would gossip and spread such rumors about our friend is incomprehensible, as he is such a humble and simple man. There is an element of meanness that must come from legalism. Legalism squeezes out the last drop of charity (love) and fills the empty space with judgmentalism. No, the attitudes of such come from the "only true way" and its affect on some awful false pride! Those who operate in such manner toward someone who is supposedly a brother or sister or perhaps one hoped to become a brother or sister are bigheaded, pigheaded, self-righteous bigots! And I would have gladly told those workers that right to their face! Again this is the same "spirit" of the workers we've seen working in Vietnam and now we're hearing about it in another country! I'm sure God has some very interesting ending plans for these folks that feel like they're "entrusted" with something that no one else on earth has nor will ever have. Why do they want to feel this way? Too self-important! And all that False pride will fall some day when they expect it the least. I seen this happening right here in the Midwest.
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terry
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Post by terry on Oct 3, 2014 19:31:48 GMT -5
When a single parent, I was working about 35 miles away so had long days. I was also raising a few pigs and calves and chickens, along with a garden to help make ends meet. Due to the settlement RonThomke was instrumental in negotiating, I received no child support, but was paying some support to my ex. Ron and his companion started a series of gospel mtgs on Sat afternoon about an hour away. I didn't go as I needed the time at home to take care of life. He came and lectured me on not attending especially as the meetings were really started just for my benefit. It was one of those milestones when I knew I was leaving soon. This likely was one of the experiences that caused Ron to learn that he "took himself too seriously." One would think if he meant the mtgs for you especially that he would have consulted with you as to the time, day and place so that stress was not part of the experience for you! As to him being in the divorce settlement, well, he shouldn't have been since he is not a trained counselor nor a lawyer! When has not being qualified ever stopped the workers from offering advice, or in my case it was orders disguised as advice.
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terry
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Post by terry on Oct 3, 2014 19:47:17 GMT -5
This subject was raised elsewhere on the net in another forum which I came across and here is an interesting reply I saw there:- Forsake not the assembling of yourselves "Finally someone brings up that verse when talking about church attendance! Good for you!! "...but exhorting one another and so much the more as you see the day approaching." The way I see it is everything in the Bible, even if it is a "suggestion," should be done. The Bible states that when two or more are gathered together (praying:) ), there is power (moreso than if a single person were to pray). Don't you want your prayers to have more power behind them with God? I do. But that's awesome that you brought that up end of quotation. I am not so sure about: "when two or more are gathered together praying, there is more power than if a single person were to pray." I certainly would like my earnest prayers(power behind them??) to be heard and answered by God. We are told in a hymn that Prayer is a mighty source of power. Ps. One can pray at home too, one can pray in the secret place as well, we do not have to go to church/meetings in order to pray; however assembling ourselves is not a bad idea as we have the opportunity to share bread/thoughts. 'Where two or more are gathered in my name there I am in the midst of them' Matt 18:19, 20 prayer of agreement. I do this frequently over most things practical in my life. These prayers are often answered. Ive been known to ask an atheist to agree with me "If two of you agree on earth you father in heaven will do it for you." The Name of Jesus Christ is powerful. The blood of Jesus Christ is powerful. That brings to mind an experience I had while in college. I and four professing friends went on a four day canoe trip in Michigan. Our last day was a Sunday. We'd brought our bibles and hymn books (secured in plastic bags), along with grape juice. On Sunday morning we had a meeting on the banks of the Manistee River, miles from anyone else. We passed the emblems, it was a very moving meeting--one of us was "professing" but hadn't "taken part", but did there. We were moved enough to mention it in testimony the next week--all hell broke lose. The workers (including my sister) lectured us that we weren't allowed to break bread in any setting other than one deemed appropriate by the workers. It was mind blowing. Five college students having a meeting in the woods and partaking of Christ's body was treated as a sin, because it was outside of their control.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 3, 2014 21:05:26 GMT -5
Terry Loved your story. This is it. When we follow the word often we do recieve a blessing Mans control is not godly. Ive been in cafes with like minded gfs and had wonderful inspiring fellowship.
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