|
Post by déjà vu on Sept 25, 2014 20:09:27 GMT -5
Billy Graham is now 94 years-old, and has Parkinson’s disease.
In January, leaders in Charlotte , North Carolina , invited their favorite son, Billy Graham, to a luncheon in his honor.
Billy initially hesitated to accept the invitation because he struggles with Parkinson's disease. But the Charlotte leaders said, 'We don't expect a major address. Just come and let us honor you.' so he agreed.
After wonderful things were said about him, Dr. Graham stepped to the rostrum, looked at the crowd, and said: "I'm reminded today of Albert Einstein, the great physicist who this month has been honored by Time magazine as the Man of the Century. Einstein was once traveling from Princeton on a train, when the conductor came down the aisle, punching the tickets of every passenger. When he came to Einstein, Einstein reached in his vest pocket. He couldn't find his ticket, so he reached in his trouser pockets.
It wasn't there. He looked in his briefcase but couldn't find it. Then he looked in the seat beside him. He still couldn't find it.
"The conductor said, 'Dr. Einstein, I know who you are. We all know who you are. I'm sure you bought a ticket. Don't worry about it.'
"Einstein nodded appreciatively. The conductor continued down the aisle punching tickets. As he was ready to move to the next car, he turned around and saw the great physicist down on his hands and knees looking under his seat for his ticket.
"The conductor rushed back and said, 'Dr. Einstein, Dr. Einstein, don't worry, I know who you are; no problem. You don't need a ticket. I'm sure you bought one.'
Einstein looked at him and said, "Young man, I too, know who I am. What I don't know is where I'm going."
Having said that Billy Graham continued, "See the suit I'm wearing? It's a brand new suit. My children, and my grandchildren are telling me I've gotten a little slovenly in my old age. I used to be a bit more fastidious. So I went out and bought a new suit for this luncheon and one more occasion. You know what that occasion is? This is the suit in which I'll be buried. But when you hear I'm dead, I don't want you to immediately remember the suit I'm wearing. I want you to remember this: "I not only know who I am. I also know where I'm going." May your troubles be less, your blessings more, and may nothing but happiness, come through your door. "Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil - it has no point."
Amen & Peace My Friends
And may each of us have lived our lives so that when our ticket is punched we don't have to worry about where we are going.
|
|
|
Post by xna on Sept 25, 2014 20:41:57 GMT -5
The workers would preach about him as an example of a "hireling" preacher. They also said he had a bra factory. (Back in the 1970''s). Today I don't find any mention of a bra factory on the web. Anyone else remember that story? I assume the 2x2 today still expect all hireling preachers will go to hell? 25M Net Worth www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/billy-graham-net-worth/
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Sept 25, 2014 22:14:02 GMT -5
And so it goes, -yet one more urban legend at the expense of Dr. Albert Einstein.
All in yet another attempt to bolster another slur on science.
|
|
|
Post by déjà vu on Sept 25, 2014 22:37:43 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Sept 25, 2014 22:54:15 GMT -5
I would say the workers are jealous of Billy Graham. They made up all sorts of stories about meeting him on a plane, how he was not willing.....etc....Billy has won more people to Christ than all the workers together.....not that numbers matter but God has used B.G. mightily.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Sept 25, 2014 23:30:22 GMT -5
Einstein emphasizes that religion, not science, is where a culture finds the source and expression for what should be, rather than what is. Here are some different statements about & from Einstein: from wiki
Einstein used many labels to describe his religious views, including "agnostic",[4] "religious nonbeliever"[5] and a "pantheistic"[6] believer in "Spinoza's God."[7] Personal God and the afterlife
Einstein expressed his skepticism regarding an anthropomorphic deity, often describing it as "naïve" and "childlike".
He stated, "It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I feel also not able to imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. My views are near those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly. I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem—the most important of all human problems."[8]
On 22 March 1954 Einstein received a letter from Joseph Dispentiere, an Italian immigrant who had worked as an experimental machinist in New Jersey. Dispentiere had declared himself an atheist and was disappointed by a news report which had cast Einstein as conventionally religious. Einstein replied on 24 March 1954:
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.[9]"
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Sept 25, 2014 23:50:12 GMT -5
I agree with dimmichgood that the above is a misrepresentation of Einstein's views. Link to many direct quotes by Einstein about his views on God, religion, mysticism, and spirituality.: Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
|
|
|
Post by midwesterner on Sept 28, 2014 5:19:56 GMT -5
Mary, I think you are right about the workers being jealous of BG. I grew up 2x2 and heard them all. BG on a plane, thats the main one, as many times as I heard it, he must have sat by most of the head workers and engaged in conversation. ha! Now I love watching the old BG crusades and can't believe the scores of people that attended.
|
|
|
Post by magpie on Oct 7, 2014 4:14:00 GMT -5
Billy Graham came to Melbourne. Turned the Cityin a new direction "128,000,,,ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY EIGHT THOUSAND"turned up to the famous MCG. People were moved and still his visit is felt amongst Melbournes Christian Community--He introduced the word "ECUMENICAL" to inspired revived lives,healthy interaction,joint outreaches,mission,welfare and justice has come out of this wonderful few hours. People returned to put,UNITY, Bible study,Theology teachings,Community fellowship,Youth,Outreach into suffering lives,and may I add the helpful outreached hand"s" to me,and "OTHERS" as victim of 2x2s Workers CSA,with prayer counsilling proper Pastoring,fellowship and communion as we never thought God had waiting for us. Now two generations later the solid hand downs from the original hearers of an inspirational speaker Billy Graham,still bear fruit. "BUT", never once have I heard "ONE" person show any signs of Idolising Billy,no only respect for the enlightening inspirational biblical messages that got them out of their comfortable seats and "DO SOMETHING TO HEAL THE theological DIFFERENCES and GET OUT AND SHOW I AM ONE OF GODS HEALPERS, TALK TO ME ,WHY?,AND I WILL TELL OF THE LIVING WATERS,GODS LOVE FOR YOU AND HOW WE CAN SHARE THIS LOVE AND GRACE TOGETHER. Thanks to Billy those who helped me were helped via those Melbourne MCG missions,many years ago going out from there with a new vision of what God would want from them.And it is still there working away.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 5:29:00 GMT -5
I would say the workers are jealous of Billy Graham. They made up all sorts of stories about meeting him on a plane, how he was not willing.....etc....Billy has won more people to Christ than all the workers together.....not that numbers matter but God has used B.G. mightily. No, I am not "jealous" of Billy Graham. "Evangelist Billy Graham recalls in his new book the pivotal point in his young ministry when, during a 1949 Los Angeles crusade, a two-word directive from publisher William Randolph Hearst to "puff Graham" made him an instant celebrity nationwide." I don't like celebrities I don't like people being puffed up I don't trust popular people I don't trust charismatic people I don't like preachers uplifting people, and sending them back where they came from. Frankly, I feel sorry for the man.
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Oct 7, 2014 9:48:52 GMT -5
I would say the workers are jealous of Billy Graham. They made up all sorts of stories about meeting him on a plane, how he was not willing.....etc....Billy has won more people to Christ than all the workers together.....not that numbers matter but God has used B.G. mightily. No, I am not "jealous" of Billy Graham. "Evangelist Billy Graham recalls in his new book the pivotal point in his young ministry when, during a 1949 Los Angeles crusade, a two-word directive from publisher William Randolph Hearst to "puff Graham" made him an instant celebrity nationwide." I don't like celebrities I don't like people being puffed up I don't trust popular people I don't trust charismatic people I don't like preachers uplifting people, and sending them back where they came from. Frankly, I feel sorry for the man. You must not like Paul's letters. The way he was popular with the various churches, writing them uplifting messages and being so charismatic and pointing people to Christ. Or even the way people came to listen to Jesus, and then he just left them to go back to where they came from. Or how workers gather people at conventions, and then they go back to where they came from. Sad isn't it?
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Oct 7, 2014 9:53:14 GMT -5
And those crazy Apostles..... Preaching to the masses, baptizing over 3,000 people in one 'mission' and sending them home..... You would think they would know that all those people needed to sit through a lot of preaching before men decided if they were worthy enough to be baptised.....
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Oct 9, 2014 1:22:41 GMT -5
Anyway I'd say on Billy's 'watch'. It wouldn't matter whether Albert knew where he was going or if he had a ticket he'd end up in heaven with Billy anyway? I'd say Billy realised that what a man says about anyone's status with God doesn't mean much.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Oct 9, 2014 2:20:58 GMT -5
Anything's possible, Review005!
|
|
|
Post by fred on Oct 9, 2014 3:49:56 GMT -5
Billy Graham is now 94 years-old, and has Parkinson’s disease. In January, leaders in Charlotte , North Carolina , invited their favorite son, Billy Graham, to a luncheon in his honor. Billy initially hesitated to accept the invitation because he struggles with Parkinson's disease. But the Charlotte leaders said, 'We don't expect a major address. Just come and let us honor you.' so he agreed. After wonderful things were said about him, Dr. Graham stepped to the rostrum, looked at the crowd, and said: "I'm reminded today of Albert Einstein, the great physicist who this month has been honored by Time magazine as the Man of the Century. Einstein was once traveling from Princeton on a train, when the conductor came down the aisle, punching the tickets of every passenger. When he came to Einstein, Einstein reached in his vest pocket. He couldn't find his ticket, so he reached in his trouser pockets. It wasn't there. He looked in his briefcase but couldn't find it. Then he looked in the seat beside him. He still couldn't find it. "The conductor said, 'Dr. Einstein, I know who you are. We all know who you are. I'm sure you bought a ticket. Don't worry about it. "Einstein nodded appreciatively. The conductor continued down the aisle punching tickets. As he was ready to move to the next car, he turned around and saw the great physicist down on his hands and knees looking under his seat for his ticket. "The conductor rushed back and said, 'Dr. Einstein, Dr. Einstein, don't worry, I know who you are; no problem. You don't need a ticket. I'm sure you bought one.'Einstein looked at him and said, "Young man, I too, know who I am. What I don't know is where I'm going." Having said that Billy Graham continued, "See the suit I'm wearing? It's a brand new suit. My children, and my grandchildren are telling me I've gotten a little slovenly in my old age. I used to be a bit more fastidious. So I went out and bought a new suit for this luncheon and one more occasion. You know what that occasion is? This is the suit in which I'll be buried. But when you hear I'm dead, I don't want you to immediately remember the suit I'm wearing. I want you to remember this: "I not only know who I am. I also know where I'm going." May your troubles be less, your blessings more, and may nothing but happiness, come through your door. "Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil - it has no point." Amen & Peace My Friends And may each of us have lived our lives so that when our ticket is punched we don't have to worry about where we are going. Transcript of Rev. Billy Graham's conversation with Rev. Schuller on "The Hour of Power" TV program:
Schuller: "Tell me, what is the future of Christianity?"
Billy Graham: "Well, Christianity and being a true believer, you know, I think there's the body of Christ which comes from all the Christian groups around the world, or outside the Christian groups. I think that everybody that loves Christ or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. What God is doing today is calling people out of the world for His name. Whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their hearts they need something that they don't have and they turn to the only light they have and I think they're saved and they're going to be with us in heaven." [So Graham has apparently adopted the "anonymous Christian" view defended by liberal Catholic theologians like Hans Kung. I also suspect that Graham's view may have been influenced by seeing good friends die without becoming born again Evangelical Christians, including lifelong friend and fellow-evangelist-turned-agnostic, Charles Templeton, succumb to Alzheimer's.--E.T.B.]
Billy didn't get too many accolades from main stream Christianity following this interview! ! John MacArthur struggled to see it as Billy and the Pope did! BGEA (Billy Graham Evangelical Association) kind coughed and spluttered and cleared their throat and nothing else that meaningfully addressed what the old man said come out?! Anyway I'd say on Billy's 'watch'. It wouldn't matter whether Albert knew where he was going or if he had a ticket he'd end up in heaven with Billy anyway? This is interesting - I once heard a worker express similar sentiments. He was a African worker (perhaps of Dutch origin) and he was speaking about the Bushmen of the Kalahari Desert. He spoke of a spiritual dimension and the deep respect for their moral code.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 4:34:14 GMT -5
We can all say what we like on this thread, but in the final analysis God will be the righteous Judge of Billy Graham and the rest of us; that is one good reason why we should look after, and concentrate on, our own salvation with fear and trembling. I don't think that God will ask us about Billy Graham or anyone else. We will be called on to give account of ourselves.
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Oct 9, 2014 21:22:09 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2014 4:19:13 GMT -5
Scott quote, "You must not like Paul's letters. The way he was popular with the various churches, writing them uplifting messages and being so charismatic and pointing people to Christ. Or even the way people came to listen to Jesus, and then he just left them to go back to where they came from. Or how workers gather people at conventions, and then they go back to where they came from. Sad isn't it?"
Different popularity. Paul was only popular to his inner church. Not everybody like any televangelists are. Paul wasn't charismatic: people found his "bodily present weak." The problem with charisma is you wind up with a church of members drawn by charisma instead of the spirit. And Paul didn't want ANY listener to go back to their former churches.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Oct 10, 2014 5:23:47 GMT -5
Pruebert
In defence of a minister with the anointing of an evangelist. Tv has nothing to do with it. Billy had the evangelist anointing/gifting. This gift is full of zeal, ministers in healing and deliverance. Evidence of this gift is numbers come to Christ. They do have what you might call charisma. Its not an act. Its their calling. They are different to a pastor who is a nurturer and feeds and protects.
|
|
Archie
Junior Member
Non,je ne regrette rein!!!!
Posts: 64
|
Post by Archie on Oct 10, 2014 6:24:38 GMT -5
Billy knew how to make money out of spreading the Word of God.
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Oct 10, 2014 17:00:29 GMT -5
And what money do you think Billy made? He lived on the same property all his life that he brought when he first got married 60 - 70 years ago. The money he received went into a Bible School and things to further the kingdom of God. He did not seek money and fame but gained respect for who he was. He did not place himself up as someone you have to follow in order to get salvation, like the workers do. Billy focused on Jesus alone as necessary for salvation.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2014 17:48:16 GMT -5
The money argument with Billy Graham doesn't seem to be employed with the Workers, does it?
Having said this...
"But the financial statements of Billy Graham Evangelist Association for the last ten years have shown that Dr. Billy Graham has taken a one hundred percent salary as chairman of BGEA. But it's a fact that Dr. Billy Graham has not worked a hundred percent of the time and not even fifty percent.
So is this right for a man who is supposed to be "Mr. Integrity" to take a hundred percent salary, plus pension plus one hundred percent of other fringe benefits and compensations and works less than fifty percent of the time?
According IRS rules all non profit organizations must report the salaries of the top five paid staff members! But BGEA is not releasing to the donors Billy Graham's or Franklin Graham's total compensation. Since BGEA is stonewalling the donors for such information, as has been the case so far, then they are hiding something?"
Mr. Billy Graham clearly doesn't want to live by the example of Jesus and the Apostles. Why not?
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Oct 11, 2014 4:57:37 GMT -5
The money argument with Billy Graham doesn't seem to be employed with the Workers, does it?
Having said this... "But the financial statements of Billy Graham Evangelist Association for the last ten years have shown that Dr. Billy Graham has taken a one hundred percent salary as chairman of BGEA. But it's a fact that Dr. Billy Graham has not worked a hundred percent of the time and not even fifty percent.
So is this right for a man who is supposed to be "Mr. Integrity" to take a hundred percent salary, plus pension plus one hundred percent of other fringe benefits and compensations and works less than fifty percent of the time?
According IRS rules all non profit organizations must report the salaries of the top five paid staff members! But BGEA is not releasing to the donors Billy Graham's or Franklin Graham's total compensation. Since BGEA is stonewalling the donors for such information, as has been the case so far, then they are hiding something?" Mr. Billy Graham clearly doesn't want to live by the example of Jesus and the Apostles. Why not? I dont know. He will be accountable for what he kept, spent and gave. Like the rest of us.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Oct 11, 2014 21:12:01 GMT -5
And what money do you think Billy made? his estate was estimated at $25 million.When asked in a 60 Minute's interview he said he collected and lived on a salary of $10,000 a year. When asked how he could afford the house and other things he responded that they were not his but belonged to the organization and the organization paid the expenses. Asked who owned the organization he admitted he did. Of course, everything the organization owned was tax exempt.Upkeep for the houses, the cars, operating expenses. He did ask for and received funds from his followers.He led a very conservative and completely exclusive christian organization. He preached against homosexuality, against same sex marriages, against abortion, against sexuality outside of marriage, and supports the idea of original sin.He seemed to be sincere. He was also running a successful business that provided help to many people.
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Oct 13, 2014 11:08:07 GMT -5
Scott quote, " You must not like Paul's letters. The way he was popular with the various churches, writing them uplifting messages and being so charismatic and pointing people to Christ. Or even the way people came to listen to Jesus, and then he just left them to go back to where they came from. Or how workers gather people at conventions, and then they go back to where they came from. Sad isn't it?"Different popularity. Paul was only popular to his inner church. Not everybody like any televangelists are. Paul wasn't charismatic: people found his "bodily present weak." The problem with charisma is you wind up with a church of members drawn by charisma instead of the spirit. And Paul didn't want ANY listener to go back to their former churches. What former churches are you referring to? Just how many of them are you aware of? I only know of one 'church' that is referred to, and Paul continued to uphold his vows from his former church, continued to meet with and speak in his former church. Maybe we should all go read about what Paul actually did in spreading the gospel, rather than trying to claim that he started a new religion with a bunch of new rules that aren't listed in the bible.
|
|
|
Post by déjà vu on Oct 18, 2014 21:33:35 GMT -5
I believe one reason why there was never any scandals surrounding Billy, was because he made the decision early in his ministry never to be alone with any woman except his wife Ruth.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 2:24:35 GMT -5
Bert - Mr. Billy Graham clearly doesn't want to live by the example of Jesus and the Apostles. Why not? Bubles - I dont know. He will be accountable for what he kept, spent and gave. Like the rest of us.
Wrong answer Bubbles. Those who worked for salaries, administer companies, hold investments etc. are not necessarily judged on their performance of those things - but if you claim to be a minister of God and living by the standards of the New Testament then you will be judged according the commandents and example given of what a ministry should look like.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 2:30:53 GMT -5
Scott quote, " You must not like Paul's letters. The way he was popular with the various churches, writing them uplifting messages and being so charismatic and pointing people to Christ. Or even the way people came to listen to Jesus, and then he just left them to go back to where they came from. Or how workers gather people at conventions, and then they go back to where they came from. Sad isn't it?"Different popularity. Paul was only popular to his inner church. Not everybody like any televangelists are. Paul wasn't charismatic: people found his "bodily present weak." The problem with charisma is you wind up with a church of members drawn by charisma instead of the spirit. And Paul didn't want ANY listener to go back to their former churches. What former churches are you referring to? Just how many of them are you aware of? I only know of one 'church' that is referred to, and Paul continued to uphold his vows from his former church, continued to meet with and speak in his former church. Maybe we should all go read about what Paul actually did in spreading the gospel, rather than trying to claim that he started a new religion with a bunch of new rules that aren't listed in the bible. You aren't going to read about it in any history of the Christian Church written or vetted by the Catholic Church - but "back then", reading between the lines, we can see all sorts of breakaway churches. People who "loved this present world" or "left us because they were never a part of us" or found the preachers "bodily presence weak" or rebelled against the authority of the workers and were not "spared" etc. - they usually went about to establish rival churches.
|
|