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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 19:46:56 GMT -5
So Virgo, how many years of indoctrination have you had ? Considering you think that I don't have a clue ! i have had no years of indoctrination
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 19:49:09 GMT -5
got the same record out again, and so it keeps going Virgo, do workers sexually abuse children? no more than anyone else the way you have written suggests that all workers sexually abuse children
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 19:49:59 GMT -5
So Virgo, how many years of indoctrination have you had ? Considering you think that I don't have a clue ! Roselyn T, I think that Virgo is winding you up and enjoying it. He is having his little bit of fun at your expense.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 19:53:57 GMT -5
that maybe some wishful thinking on your part... Virgo said he couldn't care less how Wobbyboot was treated. That "couldn't care less" attitude will hasten the demise of the fellowship. Wishful thinking on my part is that the "couldn't care less" people like Virgo would wake up and be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Perhaps the fellowship works just fine for Virgo and his buddies, but its failing the following generations. no dipstick it was i couldn't careless how see thought she was treating me duh again your last statement is a load of bollocks and you are awarded another duh
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 20:11:02 GMT -5
that maybe some wishful thinking on your part... Virgo said he couldn't care less how Wobbyboot was treated. That "couldn't care less" attitude will hasten the demise of the fellowship. Wishful thinking on my part is that the "couldn't care less" people like Virgo would wake up and be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Perhaps the fellowship works just fine for Virgo and his buddies, but its failing the following generations. i have come to the conclusion that you sir are a gloom and doom merchant if you think it is failing pray pray pray
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 15, 2014 20:46:18 GMT -5
So Virgo, how many years of indoctrination have you had ? Considering you think that I don't have a clue ! Roselyn T, I think that Virgo is winding you up and enjoying it. He is having his little bit of fun at your expense. Yes Partaker, I know what his game is ! It just shows the mentality of a lot of the F & W and why people are leaving ! Also it shows their attitude to CSA which is really sad. But I read somewhere recently they cannot think for themselves so they just blindly follow along
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 15, 2014 20:50:13 GMT -5
Virgo said he couldn't care less how Wobbyboot was treated. That "couldn't care less" attitude will hasten the demise of the fellowship. Wishful thinking on my part is that the "couldn't care less" people like Virgo would wake up and be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Perhaps the fellowship works just fine for Virgo and his buddies, but its failing the following generations. no dipstick it was i couldn't careless how see thought she was treating me duh again your last statement is a load of bollocks and you are awarded another duh Virgo I think you have been watching too many episodes of the Simpsons !!
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Post by bubbles on Nov 15, 2014 20:51:12 GMT -5
You lot make me laugh
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 21:17:21 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 21:19:19 GMT -5
Roselyn T, I think that Virgo is winding you up and enjoying it. He is having his little bit of fun at your expense. Yes Partaker, I know what his game is ! It just shows the mentality of a lot of the F & W and why people are leaving ! Also it shows their attitude to CSA which is really sad. But I read somewhere recently they cannot think for themselves so they just blindly follow along you really need to a chill pill
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 15, 2014 21:45:34 GMT -5
Yes Partaker, I know what his game is ! It just shows the mentality of a lot of the F & W and why people are leaving ! Also it shows their attitude to CSA which is really sad. But I read somewhere recently they cannot think for themselves so they just blindly follow along you really need to a chill pill So is that what you would say to a person that has been sexually abused Virgo ? "You need to take a chill pill" !!! Sorry Virgo but CSA is not something to chill about !
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2014 21:58:12 GMT -5
you really need to a chill pill So is that what you would say to a person that has been sexually abused Virgo ? "You need to take a chill pill" !!! Sorry Virgo but CSA is not something to chill about ! you think you are the only one this is the last post i make to this thread
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 15, 2014 23:02:33 GMT -5
So is that what you would say to a person that has been sexually abused Virgo ? "You need to take a chill pill" !!! Sorry Virgo but CSA is not something to chill about ! you think you are the only one this is the last post i make to this thread Who said anything about being the only one Virgo ? My concern is for every person/child that has been abused ! That is your choice to make whether its your last post on this thread or not !!
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 16, 2014 1:47:18 GMT -5
So Virgo, how many years of indoctrination have you had ? Considering you think that I don't have a clue ! i have had no years of indoctrination How many years have you been "professing", virgo?
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Post by snow on Nov 16, 2014 11:48:08 GMT -5
Virgo, do workers sexually abuse children? no more than anyone else the way you have written suggests that all workers sexually abuse children In what way does it suggest that I think that? So what can you suggest that would be good to be done about those who do? You really have never expressed that solution that I am aware of.
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Post by fixit on May 18, 2015 14:50:26 GMT -5
Putting 'cults' and 'non-Christian groups' into one basket seems fishy to me. Based on this, I would not be contacting CARM for the purpose of getting objective information on groups. If the reason why 2x2 is listed here is the teaching that Jesus is the Son of God as opposed to God the Son, I am not impressed. It would not merit the label of either a cult or a non-Christian group in my book. I differ on this. The word "cult" obviously conjures up considerable negative connotations. From a Christian viewpoint, cults have been defined for some time as those that teach heresies in relation to major Christian doctrine - it does not necessarily cover behavioural aspects such as brain washing. I hold the strong view that 2x2 teaching on Jesus is heresy and increasingly becoming so. It is not that they just refute Jesus as God (which is heresy in itself) but they bring Jesus down even further by (over) emphasising His humanity at the expense of His divinity. It happens subtlety but surely and is all to do with the main doctrine of the unmarried 2x2 ministry which has been elevated at the expense of Jesus. Jesus is progressively being reduced to more of a perfect elder brother who kept the faith, overcame and gained the prize....and we should be like Jesus - keep the faith, endure until the end, overcome and gain the prize. While there is an element of truth in this (like there is in most heresies) when you look at it in the overall sense of who Christ is, it is absolute heresy. If they teach this about Jesus they deserve the nomenclature of a sect or cult. I prefer the former. The single biggest improvement that the F&W fellowship could make is what they teach - if you can't get it right on core Christian doctrine - you have nothing. This brings to mind the words of Goodhand Pattison...
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Post by snow on May 18, 2015 17:07:23 GMT -5
Well fixit, what you just posted that Ross said pretty much lets us know what he thinks about the 2x2's Maja says they are not a cult and he says he differs on this. When he says he doesn't think the 2x2's are a cult and then posts what you re-posted, I wonder which one he truly believes because one contradicts the other as far as I can see.
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Post by fixit on Sept 7, 2015 20:49:46 GMT -5
What do you consider "core Christian doctrine"? Good question. Absolute core in my opinion (and generally recognised I believe) are: Deity of Christ - Jesus being God in the flesh, He is the object of our faith One God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit Salvation by GraceBodily/Physical resurrection of ChristIn my 30+ years in F&W fellowship I think the last one was the only one I believed. I believed Jesus was the Son of God but I saw Him more as a perfect human who overcame. I certainly didn't believe that he was God in the flesh (John 1) Do you think that "core" doctrine brings folks into fellowship with God the father and his son Jesus Christ? From my reading of the bible, those things would have been the least of Jesus' concerns. Proud know-it-all theologians didn't impress Jesus...
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Post by fixit on Dec 8, 2015 19:52:30 GMT -5
I could agree to 1st offense not warranting removal from the work if all the workers known for repeat offenses were immediately removed from the work, if public apology was made for past mistakes and to victims and their advocates who were marginalized and vilified, and if the following procedure was put into place for dealing with 1st time offenses: 1) that the offender be removed from the work for a year to give him time to reflect on what he has done and on whether he really wants to or should commit to celibacy for life, 2) that the reason for his removal is not hidden, 3) that he receives the same punishment as any other church member found in immorality, 4) that in the case of his return to the ministry, he would remain in the area where he committed the 1st offense, so that if he re-offends, it won’t be treated as 1st time offense again, 4) that reports of sexual abuse/harassment will be treated as such (not as consensual immorality/slander/seduction) and that in case of reportable abuse the victim is encouraged to report it, 5) that in case of abuse/harassment, the worker is not allowed to return to the ministry ever. This thread came to mind as I read about a teacher who had sex once with a ten year old. www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11558311"Parents need assurance people like Reriti will never again be near children in an education setting. Reriti grossly abused the unique position of trust teachers are in. It is entirely inappropriate for her to be a teacher ever again." Should the same apply to workers who have offended, that they should never again live in the homes of children as a worker?
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Post by Jason Storebo on Dec 10, 2015 15:33:56 GMT -5
Perhaps if they improved themselves...they just might improve themselves out of existence.
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Post by fixit on Jul 13, 2017 19:31:18 GMT -5
As I said I'm talking about concerns that I did not solicit nor seek for. In sadness they were shared by parents who have a love for the soul of their child. I knew nothing of you in real life or JO/ fixit TMB online life at the time. Think about this as a way for the F&W fellowship to improve: When folks come to workers with complaints about a person who they don't know, they could be encouraged to instead discuss their concerns with the person they're complaining about. That way workers could be part of the solution, rather than part of the problem. I guess this is as relevant today as it was in 2014.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jul 13, 2017 21:26:23 GMT -5
It came to me today that what has happened that the workers' duties have changed so much is the fact that the beginning workers used the short term commission in Mt. 10, to model their ministry on. Do being of a temporary intent makes for what we see the workers spending their time on these days, as riding her on the already professing instead if leaving the already professing as the beginning workers hadto and trust tthe Lord to guide them and go out unto the harvest field. But that's not what they do anymore at least mostly, it makes for utter dependence in the friends on the workers and not on the Holy Spirit. Thus giving humans control over humans. This definitely not healthy spiritually nor naturally.
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Post by snow on Jul 14, 2017 14:18:52 GMT -5
I see all religion as giving humans control over humans. I agree str it is definitely not healthy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 14:32:23 GMT -5
More about HIM and less about THEM...this will make the Truth great again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 15:06:42 GMT -5
I see all religion as giving humans control over humans. I agree str it is definitely not healthy. *** I am glad there are some controls out there. The administrator controls this board. We need a military and police. Control isn't a bad word. I also don't think ALL religions try to control what you eat, who you marry, what you wear etc.. but I also know many that do. And the members give the leaders too much power.
Yet I see thugs with their pants hanging over their knees, uttering the F word, destroying property, living in fornication, robbing granny for drug money, insulting older people, etc...I DESPISE that kind of liberty. I see those tattooed folks with stretched earlobes, excessive body piercings and pity them for their liberty. Many of these thugs will rot in prison and overdose due to their liberty. Self control is the best control.Give me healthy control over lawlessness. Nations without a central government are a mess. You can have control without abuse. Checks and balances. Our founding fathers created a system with proper control AND restrictions on control. Cuba and China don't have the same thing. I love the Chinese people but I dislike their totalitarian system.
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Post by fixit on Jul 14, 2017 15:20:19 GMT -5
I see all religion as giving humans control over humans. I agree str it is definitely not healthy. *** I am glad there are some controls out there. The administrator controls this board. We need a military and police. Control isn't a bad word. I also don't think ALL religions try to control what you eat, who you marry, what you wear etc.. but I also know many that do. And the members give the leaders too much power. The controlling spirit is still alive and well in the F&W fellowship as we speak. We love to see green shoots sprouting, but sooner or later someone comes along and breaks them off.
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Post by snow on Jul 14, 2017 15:25:22 GMT -5
I see all religion as giving humans control over humans. I agree str it is definitely not healthy. *** I am glad there are some controls out there. The administrator controls this board. We need a military and police. Control isn't a bad word. I also don't think ALL religions try to control what you eat, who you marry, what you wear etc.. but I also know many that do. And the members give the leaders too much power. Yet I see thugs with their pants hanging over their knees, uttering the F word, destroying property, living in fornication, robbing granny for drug money, insulting older people, etc...I DESPISE that kind of liberty. I see those tattooed folks with stretched earlobes, excessive body piercings and pity them for their liberty. Many of these thugs will rot in prison and overdose due to their liberty. Self control is the best control.Give me healthy control over lawlessness. Nations without a central government are a mess. You can have control without abuse. Checks and balances. Our founding fathers created a system with proper control AND restrictions on control. Cuba and China don't have the same thing. I love the Chinese people but I dislike their totalitarian system. Yes you can have control without abuse but it's rare. Humans like power and when they get it, it takes a very strong person with integrity to not abuse it. When I see religions and what many of them do, I see threats of eternal damnation as a form of power over the people. No one has any idea what, if anything, happens to us after death so when some humans (priests) get together and decide that they will include a destination such as hell in their doctrine, you just know why it's there. How do you get a bunch of people to listen to your rules and rituals if you don't hold something over their heads to scare them into at least listening. Religions of fear are just a form of power and abuse of that power. Sure we need rules and consequences in society. I'm certainly not talking about that kind of thing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 15:46:40 GMT -5
The controlling spirit is still alive and well in the F&W fellowship as we speak. *** True. Yet I see younger people going to places and doing things that I wouldn't have been allowed to go say 30 years ago. I see short shorts, string bikinis, photos on facebook of cinemas etc. And even with that, you have control as these same young people would feel wrong going to a Christian camp, for example.
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