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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 16, 2014 19:39:37 GMT -5
I don't believe in doubling the minimum wage, but I believe in having a minimum wage. The reason is that if wages are left to the free market, the lowest wages will go down to a penny, assuming there's no welfare system in place. You need to have a minimum wage level so that commodity menial or manual labour still amounts to a living wage. How do you define a "living wage"? I'd like to see McDonald's and Walmart employees get paid enough to survive reasonably without government assistance, and without having to work two and three jobs. Any less, strikes me as being unethical, given the profits companies like these enjoy. It seems to me like taxpayers are essentially padding the pockets of corporate shareholders (corporate "welfare queens"?!) in the form of financial assistance to their underpaid employees. For all those who are so business friendly, we have reached the place now where places like McDonald's advise their new employees on how to apply for assistance to supplement their low wages. Shame on the whole bunch of them -- that's not even capitalism, it's quasi-slavery.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 16, 2014 19:45:50 GMT -5
they exist in king county washington they just doubled minimum wage to 15$ per hour... as to minimum wage thats only been around since 38' america was fine without it before that and prospered... Are you serious? 1938, the heart of the Depression? And aside from that, back in my father's day there were many good factory jobs, jobs in agriculture and so on, that are all gone now. Automation and globalization have taken care of that. The euphemism for this predicament is "outsourcing" -- for the business friendly sorts. Do people exist for the benefit of corporations, or do corporations exist for the benefit of people? Corporations primarily care not a whit about the welfare of their workers, and now they have status as individuals in the US.
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Post by xna on Sept 16, 2014 19:46:19 GMT -5
How do you define a "living wage"? I'd like to see McDonald's and Walmart employees get paid enough to survive reasonably without government assistance, and without having to work two and three jobs. Any less, strikes me as being unethical, given the profits companies like these enjoy. It seems to me like taxpayers are essentially padding the pockets of corporate shareholders (corporate "welfare queens"?!) in the form of financial assistance to their underpaid employees. For all those who are so business friendly, we have reached the place now where places like McDonald's advise their new employees on how to apply for assistance to supplement their low wages. Shame on the whole bunch of them -- that's not even capitalism, it's quasi-slavery. Attachments:
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Post by fixit on Sept 16, 2014 19:55:09 GMT -5
Something of interest is that John the Baptist didn't tell the occupation soldiers, or even the tax collectors, to find a new career... He also wasn't stupid, and they weren't Christians. At least they got a start. You've lost me. Did someone say John the Baptist was stupid? Or that his followers were Christians? How did who get a start?
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Post by bubbles on Sept 16, 2014 20:04:31 GMT -5
Some Aussies refer to democracy as mob rule. ?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 16, 2014 21:06:55 GMT -5
Some Aussies refer to democracy as mob rule. ? We know the type.
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Post by fixit on Sept 16, 2014 21:15:58 GMT -5
Are you serious? 1938, the heart of the Depression? And aside from that, back in my father's day there were many good factory jobs, jobs in agriculture and so on, that are all gone now. Automation and globalization have taken care of that. The euphemism for this predicament is "outsourcing" -- for the business friendly sorts. Do people exist for the benefit of corporations, or do corporations exist for the benefit of people? Corporations primarily care not a whit about the welfare of their workers, and now they have status as individuals in the US. People definitely benefit from corporations. And corporations do care about the welfare of their workers.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 16, 2014 21:45:21 GMT -5
The euphemism for this predicament is "outsourcing" -- for the business friendly sorts. Do people exist for the benefit of corporations, or do corporations exist for the benefit of people? Corporations primarily care not a whit about the welfare of their workers, and now they have status as individuals in the US. People definitely benefit from corporations. And corporations do care about the welfare of their workers. Oh, definitely! Some Corporations really take the welfare of their workers to heart!
Walmart is one such corporation! McDonald's as well.
They actually help their workers fill out forms for government assistance like food stamps etc.
Such generosity brings tears to one eyes, it does.
PS: Oh, -did I say why the workers need government assistance ? Because those corporations hires workers at low wages and part-time workers thus giving the workers no benefits and a below living wage so they have to have more that one job.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 16, 2014 22:09:09 GMT -5
The euphemism for this predicament is "outsourcing" -- for the business friendly sorts. Do people exist for the benefit of corporations, or do corporations exist for the benefit of people? Corporations primarily care not a whit about the welfare of their workers, and now they have status as individuals in the US. People definitely benefit from corporations. And corporations do care about the welfare of their workers. BS
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Post by fixit on Sept 17, 2014 1:08:07 GMT -5
Businesses create the wealth that pays government employees.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 17, 2014 2:35:10 GMT -5
Businesses create the wealth that pays government employees. Baloney, taxpayers pay government employees.
Corporations have such huge tax loop holes that a whale could go through & still have miles to spare on each side.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 17, 2014 3:04:01 GMT -5
Businesses create the wealth that pays government employees. BS. The suck up middle class taxes in the form of corporate welfare.
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Post by What Hat on Sept 17, 2014 16:58:39 GMT -5
He also wasn't stupid, and they weren't Christians. At least they got a start. You've lost me. Did someone say John the Baptist was stupid? Telling Roman soldiers to get a new career would be quite stupid. From the fact he didn't do this we can conclude he wasn't stupid and little else. John the Baptist's advice can't be taken as advice to Christians generally or in another context. In some other context he might well have told a soldier not to fight.
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Post by What Hat on Sept 17, 2014 17:08:45 GMT -5
Businesses create the wealth that pays government employees. Not exclusively. Government activities can draw in revenues other than taxes, so in that sense they are just like businesses. The line is murky. I own a private business writing software and pay taxes, so that means I am funding the government, no? However, the software we write is sold to large construction companies who build roads, so a good part of their revenue comes from taxes. The money goes around and around. Private enterprise is not always more efficient than government. For example, a number of major studies have shown that government run health care administration and billing in Canada is much more efficient than privately run administration and billing in the USA. It's a mess down there. The real difference is the question of incentive and the importance of competition which can give private enterprise an advantage but not always.
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Post by What Hat on Sept 18, 2014 10:17:18 GMT -5
Last night I finished watching 'Inequality for All', a documentary focused around the research and ideas of Robert Reich, former US secretary for labour. Some interesting stats on inequality (not from the above movie). web.stanford.edu/group/scspi/cgi-bin/facts.php
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 14:44:45 GMT -5
Quote - "Unfortunately, a minority of people who get into the regulation game can do a lot of damage, especially if they happen to be head workers. The other issue is that those who "self regulate" also need to practice more active resistance against those who take away their liberty in Christ." About 50% of what Paul wrote was "regulation." About 50% of what Jesus said was "regulation."Bert, what was the other word that Paul wrote? What was the other word that Jesus said? Many thanks! Val (T)
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