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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 4, 2014 2:07:43 GMT -5
Curses are powerful to some cultures. Id even go as far as to say more powerful in their mind than blessing. They're power is inversely proportional to the mental strength of the cursed one.
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Post by xna on Sept 4, 2014 3:21:09 GMT -5
ehum ...I don't think that you could do that.
Cows are herbivores, they only eat vegetation, -no meat
I must be a bull, then. FWIW It's not uncommon for cows to eat their own placenta and drink milk. Otherwise I have only seen them eat plants, it's a strange behavior for otherwise herbivores. Probably more than you wanted to know. :-) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by bubbles on Sept 4, 2014 6:24:29 GMT -5
Curses are powerful to some cultures. Id even go as far as to say more powerful in their mind than blessing. They're power is inversely proportional to the mental strength of the cursed one. I presume you are referring to a known curse? What about an unknown curse?
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Post by placid-void on Sept 4, 2014 8:25:18 GMT -5
Last night I watched an interesting program. Id been thinking how our western culture have a problem with the spirit world whereas many other cultures dont. Eg: Aborigines, Maori, pacific Islanders, Indonesia, Asia, India, American Indian, the Inkas, all these cultures embrace and acknowledge as part of their heritage spirits exist and the spirit world is real to them. The list goes on. some westerners believe in ghosts. Why are we different? Do we think we are somehow superior? I also find it odd that a lot of christians while admitting they are saved by the holy spirit find the topic difficult. Good morning bubbles. I think you are probing a very interesting and challenging topic with your observations. It is an avenue of discussion that seems to be extremely difficult to start and keep on track. I will throw in my two-cents worth. First to address the two specific questions you ask: yes, I do believe that Western culture has evolved differently from many of the other cultures that you mention, but, no, I do not believe that we are somehow superior (although one must acknowledge that some do believe themselves to be superior). Rather than superior, it seems to me that roughly 400 years ago in what is now known as the Enlightenment Period, Western Culture made a collective decision to fully commit to a philosophical path centered on rational, logical thought. For an entire culture to commit to this path required that traditional ties to other philosophical paths and belief systems had to be abandoned and ties severed. I believe that the consequences of that intellectual commitment have been absolutely, mind-boggling, incredible. The achievements in a material sense are immeasurable. But, as I see it, there has been a cost associated with this material achievement we justifiably call progress. I suggest that the loss is most easily measured in our vocabulary. Our vocabulary now lacks a robust language to exchange knowledge/information about phenomena beyond the material. Would any of us exchange our material advances for a more robust vocabulary? Probably not. But would an accounting of what we have given up in exchange be worth reflection? I think such reflection would be valuable. As I view history, there is a rich legacy of human dynamics (prior to the Enlightenment) that progressed more slowly than Western Cultures have over the last 400 years but that I imagine to have been more intense and balanced from a human cultural perspective. I have no personal knowledge or experience to justify this belief. In my opinion, the briefest survey of 10-15 pages of threads here on TMB will reveal the weakness of the vocabulary that we have to discuss phenomena beyond material facts and measurements. Nearly every word associated with any phenomena beyond the material is so laden with baggage that reasonable conversations are difficult to sustain. Is this because individuals do not have experiences and feelings ('qualia') beyond the material? I think not. I think we lack the vocabulary to express and share those experiences and feelings. I suspect that some of the cultures mentioned in the OP have retained the capacity to experience and share these phenomena. To maintain at least an arms length of separation from "spiritual phenomena" consider instead words like "hero", "honor", "best" and "existential threat" and think about how the meaning of each of those words has depreciated just during our lifetime. The word "hero" is used today almost daily in contexts far removed from the context any of us would have reserved for the word in our youth. The causes of this depreciation are many and varied but are we paying adequate attention to the consequences? Clearly from this post, all can see, I think not.
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Post by faune on Sept 4, 2014 8:38:15 GMT -5
Bob ~ You wouldn't be referring to George W. Bush perchance?
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Post by faune on Sept 4, 2014 8:50:57 GMT -5
Last night I watched an interesting program. ed been thinking how our western culture have a problem with the spirit world whereas many other cultures dont. Eg: Aborigines, Maori, pacific Islanders, Indonesia, Asia, India, American Indian, the Inkas, all these cultures embrace and acknowledge as part of their heritage spirits exist and the spirit world is real to them. The list goes on. some westerners believe in ghosts. Why are we different? Do we think we are somehow superior? I also find it odd that a lot of christians while admitting they are saved by the holy spirit find the topic difficult. This would be a great time to read the book The Religion Virus: Why We Believe in God: An Evolutionist Explains Religion's Incredible Hold on Humanity by Craig A. James "Why do some beliefs become extinct while others adapt and flourish?
James shows us how genetic evolution and cultural evolution, though operating at different rates, are one and the same.
Recent science has gone a long way toward explaining the origin of religious belief in evolutionary terms, but Craig James has cracked open the mystery of its tenacity.
Religion does not exist for us, it exists for its own sake. Like a selfish gene or a parasite, the religion virus catches a free ride in the minds of our species, infecting our history and culture."
DMG ~ I bought this book, The Religious Virus, a while back when you recommended it earlier, but I haven't had a chance to read it as yet due to other books I'm completing. However, I find the subject of "memes" rather interesting and hopefully I will be able to begin reading it soon?
Also, I have enjoyed your jokes on this thread along with others who contributed. They brought a few chuckles to enjoying my morning coffee and reading on line. Honestly, I would hate to live in one of these countries where voodoo and superstition run rapid and people actually believe some of this stuff to be true to the point that it becomes reality for them. What's even worse is these charlatan evangelists with their charisma who exploit the fears of these people to increase their own wealth!
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 4, 2014 15:42:49 GMT -5
Dmmich you went off on a tangent. I dont think you are hearing me. For once can you stay with me instead of running down the familiar road. btw im a slow thinker. What tangent?
What familiar road am I running down?
Could you Explain?
I know you started this thread. Could provide us a perquisite of what we should talk about?
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Post by bubbles on Sept 4, 2014 16:26:01 GMT -5
Dmmich you went off on a tangent. I dont think you are hearing me. For once can you stay with me instead of running down the familiar road. btw im a slow thinker. What tangent?
What familiar road am I running down?
Could you Explain?
I know you started this thread. Could provide us a perquisite of what we should talk about?
You run your mouth off to debate whether there is a Jesus or God or spirit world every opportunity. You dont need to hammer home your unbelief we already get that. I find it very off putting and a distraction of what I am trying to work out and discern in my own mind. How can a conversation progress to the point where all parties are pleased with the conclusion whether it fits our paradigm or not. Using ph is not like pc. I cant separate paragraphs and select portions. I also get lost with screeds of text. The prerequiste hasnt changed. THIS IS a christian site after all!!
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Post by bubbles on Sept 4, 2014 16:31:36 GMT -5
Dmmichgood
Fwiw
You cheese me off because you always think your opinion is right. Having said all that I do like you just a smidgin so give me a break woman. I think you sometimes have some interesting things to contribute when you are not on your flippin high horse.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 4, 2014 16:42:58 GMT -5
Yknot Good morning thank you for your post. I always enjoy reading yours. Yes This topic is fascinating and interesting. I just lost a long post to you. I like to surround myself with people that are more intelligent well read and articulate. I had/have a few friends like that and they have no clue how often I bluff the conversation with them... I need to have breaky and reread yours.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 4, 2014 17:45:35 GMT -5
What tangent?
What familiar road am I running down?
Could you Explain?
I know you started this thread. Could provide us a perquisite of what we should talk about?
You r un your mouth off to debate whether there is a Jesus or God or spirit world every opportunity. You dont need to hammer home your unbelief we already get that. I find it very off putting and a distraction of what I am trying to work out and discern in my own mind.How can a conversation progress to the point where all parties are pleased with the conclusion whether it fits our paradigm or not. Using ph is not like pc. I cant separate paragraphs and select portions. I also get lost with screeds of text. The prerequiste hasnt changed. THIS IS a christian site after all!!
Oh geeze!
I didn't realize that this site,TMB, was Christian site!
I thought this board(site) was for 2x2's& & ex. 2x2's & otherwise where all could state where we are at in our journey in life
I was going by by the sub-board:
Jump On Board "A board of the unwanted. Where freaks can hang out!"
Moderator: rational
I AM sorry that you find me " very off putting and a distraction of what I am trying to work out and discern in my own mind."
Obviously, you don't want any help with your quest of trying to work out and discern something in your own mind. (I must have pushed some hot buttons in your beliefs)
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 4, 2014 17:50:31 GMT -5
They're power is inversely proportional to the mental strength of the cursed one. I presume you are referring to a known curse? What about an unknown curse? They have about the same rate of success as prayer.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 4, 2014 17:55:17 GMT -5
I must be a bull, then. FWIW It's not uncommon for cows to eat their own placenta and drink milk. Otherwise I have only seen them eat plants, it's a strange behavior for otherwise herbivores. Probably more than you wanted to know. :-) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk True. When they fed cows meal containing beef contents they got into trouble. Mad cow disease. Of course, that can happen to any species.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 4, 2014 18:08:50 GMT -5
Dmmichgood Fwiw You cheese me off because you always think your opinion is right. Having said all that I do like you just a smidgin so give me a break woman.I think you sometimes have some interesting things to contribute when you are not on your flippin high horse. You know something, bubbles? It doesn't matter to me whether you like me a smidgin, a whole lot or not all.
I thought that I had the credentials (an ex-2x2)to state my thoughts on TMB .
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Post by bubbles on Sept 4, 2014 18:14:20 GMT -5
First to address the two specific questions you ask: yes, I do believe that Western culture has evolved differently from many of the other cultures that you mention, but, no, I do not believe that we are somehow superior (although one must acknowledge that some do believe themselves to be superior).
Yknot Its pride in religion, education, wealth. You dont see much pride in poverty.
Rather than superior, it seems to me that roughly 400 years ago in what is now known as the Enlightenment Period, Western Culture made a collective decision to fully commit to a philosophical path centered on rational, logical thought. For an entire culture to commit to this path required that traditional ties to other philosophical paths and belief systems had to be abandoned and ties severed.
Yknot Ive never had a lot of time for philosophy probably because I didnt understand it. Im dreamer. I base understanding on experience more than education. I hadnt heard of the enlightenment period. TIES severed. Thats sad.
I believe that the consequences of that intellectual commitment have been absolutely, mind-boggling, incredible. The achievements in a material sense are immeasurable. But, as I see it, there has been a cost associated with this material achievement we justifiably call progress.
When I listen to other cultures speak about ancestors their heritage I feel a twing of sadness rather than envy because foundational information about who they are is evident and I can feel spiritually their bond with one another. Im british by birth and we emigrated when I was a child. Half the family did also but half remained. Mum told many stories back to my great grandparents. Beyond that I have family crests. The spiritual side I have no clue. Other than when family professed.
I suggest that the loss is most easily measured in our vocabulary. Our vocabulary now lacks a robust language to exchange knowledge/information about phenomena beyond the material. Would any of us exchange our material advances for a more robust vocabulary? Probably not. But would an accounting of what we have given up in exchange be worth reflection? I think such reflection would be valuable.
As I view history, there is a rich legacy of human dynamics (prior to the Enlightenment) that progressed more slowly than Western Cultures have over the last 400 years but that I imagine to have been more intense and balanced from a human cultural perspective. I have no personal knowledge or experience to justify this belief.
In my opinion, the briefest survey of 10-15 pages of threads here on TMB will reveal the weakness of the vocabulary that we have to discuss phenomena beyond material facts and measurements. Nearly every word associated with any phenomena beyond the material is so laden with baggage that reasonable conversations are difficult to sustain. Is this because individuals do not have experiences and feelings ('qualia') beyond the material? I think not. I think we lack the vocabulary to express and share those experiences and feelings.
Yknot I think you are right. Lets try. im a chatterbox and can easily get off topic. when I listen to people like the sharman credo mutwa im enthralled. Hang off every word. I can feel his wealth of knowledge and im impatient for him to speak faster. Do you believe in the inner witness of your spirit? People call it a hunch their gut feeling. I try to follow my inner witness. To discern whether they are speaking the truth or not. Credo is able to speak about his ancestory and go back hundreds of yrs because it was handed down generation to generation. The same those other cuktures i mentioned. I can go back a few hundred yrs due to technology and microfish.
I suspect that some of the cultures mentioned in the OP have retained the capacity to experience and share these phenomena.
Yknot
I think so. Including spiritual phenomena.
To maintain at least an arms length of separation from "spiritual phenomena" consider instead words like "hero", "honor", "best" and "existential threat" and think about how the meaning of each of those words has depreciated just during our lifetime. The word "hero" is used today almost daily in contexts far removed from the context any of us would have reserved for the word in our youth. The causes of this depreciation are many and varied but are we paying adequate attention to the consequences? Clearly from this post, all can see, I think not. [/quote]
Hero's were hero's in the old days.
I also saw recently a theory that prior to the fall of man.(he stated it as fact)
Man had an open state of being. No bondage. No hinderance to access of universal power. Il call it universal power. My mind went back to the garden of eden where Adam walked in the garden in the cool of the day with God. The strange thing is I had a total yes in my being. The diagram drawn showed an outline of a woman filled with light and mid forhead between eyes a large crystal indicating the 3rd eye. Meaning the communication was switched on/open spiritually. Most peoples 5 spiritual senses are dulled/not switched on.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 4, 2014 18:16:58 GMT -5
Dmmichgood Fwiw You cheese me off because you always think your opinion is right. Having said all that I do like you just a smidgin so give me a break woman.I think you sometimes have some interesting things to contribute when you are not on your flippin high horse. You know something, bubbles? It doesn't matter to me whether you like me a smidgin, a whole lot or not all.
I thought that I had the credentials (an ex-2x2)to state my thoughts on TMB .
Yes of course you do. I thought 2x2s were christian. Maybe thats an assumption.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 4, 2014 18:28:27 GMT -5
You run your mouth off to debate whether there is a Jesus or God or spirit world every opportunity. I wonder what kind of response you expect to get when you tell someone they are running their mouth off? "Running your mouth off" is an expression used to inform people that their opinions are ridiculous and we want them to shut up. She doesn't need to. There's no topic on here that anyone NEEDS to talk about, but lots of people want to hear others' opinions. Why would you be using this site (or any other) if you are trying to work out and discern in your own mind? If you don't have things settled in your own mind, you can't expect people to agree with you. Conversations don't have to come to that conclusion. This isn't a denominational convention, it's nothing more than a series of conversations. In any case, the rules of respectful response still apply. Can we help you with this? First of all, we're not all Christians on here. That's not a prerequisite. My other response is: What do you mean by "Christian"? Not all Christians on here are recognized as Christians by the other Christians who post here? It's also possible to believe in Jesus and not be a Christian at all. It's called the "Truth" message board -- probably the only agreed upon application of the word "truth" in this forum is the way it's applied to the 2x2 religion. And not everyone even thinks that's an appropriate use of the word.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 4, 2014 18:36:17 GMT -5
Dmmichgood Fwiw You cheese me off because you always think your opinion is right. Having said all that I do like you just a smidgin so give me a break woman. I think you sometimes have some interesting things to contribute when you are not on your flippin high horse. You cheese me off because you think everyone is supposed to agree with you. I like you a tiny little bit, but get off my case, lady. You contribute some interesting things for discussion ... when you're not denigrating others' personalities.
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Post by rational on Sept 4, 2014 19:06:56 GMT -5
How can a conversation progress to the point where all parties are pleased with the conclusion whether it fits our paradigm or not. Probably can't. I thought it was for members and ex-members of the F&W and not based on the poster's belief in a paranormal being.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 4, 2014 22:48:30 GMT -5
I presume you are referring to a known curse? What about an unknown curse? They have about the same rate of success as prayer. I havent rated them. You dont believe in the power of prayer?
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Post by bubbles on Sept 4, 2014 22:53:59 GMT -5
You run your mouth off to debate whether there is a Jesus or God or spirit world every opportunity. I wonder what kind of response you expect to get when you tell someone they are running their mouth off? "Running your mouth off" is an expression used to inform people that their opinions are ridiculous and we want them to shut up. She doesn't need to. There's no topic on here that anyone NEEDS to talk about, but lots of people want to hear others' opinions. Why would you be using this site (or any other) if you are trying to work out and discern in your own mind? If you don't have things settled in your own mind, you can't expect people to agree with you. Conversations don't have to come to that conclusion. This isn't a denominational convention, it's nothing more than a series of conversations. In any case, the rules of respectful response still apply. Can we help you with this? First of all, we're not all Christians on here. That's not a prerequisite. My other response is: What do you mean by "Christian"? Not all Christians on here are recognized as Christians by the other Christians who post here? It's also possible to believe in Jesus and not be a Christian at all. It's called the "Truth" message board -- probably the only agreed upon application of the word "truth" in this forum is the way it's applied to the 2x2 religion. And not everyone even thinks that's an appropriate use of the word. My comments were for dimmchgood. You are right anyone can post what they like.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 4, 2014 22:58:06 GMT -5
Dimmchgood Yes you popped a bubble. I apolgise if I offended you. You have every right to post. I dont expect people to agree with me far from it. When it does happen I get a flush of gratitude.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 4, 2014 23:04:01 GMT -5
Dmmichgood Fwiw You cheese me off because you always think your opinion is right. Having said all that I do like you just a smidgin so give me a break woman. I think you sometimes have some interesting things to contribute when you are not on your flippin high horse. You cheese me off because you think everyone is supposed to agree with you. I like you a tiny little bit, but get off my case, lady. You contribute some interesting things for discussion ... when you're not denigrating others' personalities. Now this I can see because its not too long. Lol @ cheesin you off. I wasnt speaking to you. You dont need to like me. Im used to that. People love me or hate me. I dont denegrate people not intentionally. Think theres only one other in all my time on TMB who irritates me from time to time. Anyway go have a cold one chillout.
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Post by bubbles on Sept 4, 2014 23:05:50 GMT -5
How can a conversation progress to the point where all parties are pleased with the conclusion whether it fits our paradigm or not. Probably can't. I thought it was for members and ex-members of the F&W and not based on the poster's belief in a paranormal being. Yes. Dont you start.
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Post by emy on Sept 4, 2014 23:41:05 GMT -5
THIS IS a christian site after all!! Bubbles, have you tried TLC? (just funning you a bit)
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Post by bubbles on Sept 4, 2014 23:51:36 GMT -5
THIS IS a christian site after all!! Bubbles, have you tried TLC? (just funning you a bit) Tender Loving Care Lol Everybody can do with some TLC Thanks for the funning x
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 5, 2014 0:08:57 GMT -5
They have about the same rate of success as prayer. I havent rated them. You dont believe in the power of prayer? But others have rated them. What I said had nothing to do with whether or not I believe in prayer. What matters is that most prayers are not answered -- that's the reason we have the saying, "It must not have been God's will/time/purpose/whatever." Aside from that I have studied (as in university) curses, spells, magick, etc., and I've associated with people who use them. They aren't anything different from Christian prayer in effect, and trusted no more by their believers than most Christians trust prayer. The only difference is that Christians have the ritual of bowing down, and others have other rituals to work the same effect -- with the same rate of success. FWIW, some people would describe some of my personal practice(s) as "prayer" -- in my way and for the value it is to me. It does not involve asking favors of anyone/anything.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 5, 2014 1:02:22 GMT -5
Now this I can see because its not too long. Lol @ cheesin you off. I wasnt speaking to you. Well I was speaking to you. If you post on here, it's for everyone to read and anyone to respond to. There's a way to tell people to shut up without putting it out there for everyone to read. It doesn't matter whether you denigrate people intentionally or not, it's still rude and abusive. So what do you do about that? Did you come on here to tell people what to do?
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