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Post by rational on Aug 27, 2014 11:47:59 GMT -5
DMG ~ I honestly believe Fixit would like to see a little more common courtesy shown to Christian believers on this Board by his earlier comments? Afterall, we all have a right to our opinions, right or wrong, and showing more tolerance to those who don't share our perspective would probably be a step in the right direction? You speak of common courtesy and STR speaks of rancor. Could you post some examples where you feel this exists?
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Post by faune on Aug 27, 2014 11:49:26 GMT -5
I am hoping that if I can lose enough weight that I will be able to hear my gut again. Right now it is really muffled and always sounds like "plseahe get meff soferme phood" or something like that. Ahh I have the answer for you Turbolax Bubbles ~ Your response got me laughing, as it reminded me of a clip from Dumb and Dumber with Jim Carey. Link is below. What a great ice breaker for this thread, too. Glad to see you guys both retain your sense of humor, which is always appreciated.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqxE4kV_7GU
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Post by faune on Aug 27, 2014 12:03:56 GMT -5
DMG ~ I honestly believe Fixit would like to see a little more common courtesy shown to Christian believers on this Board by his earlier comments? Afterall, we all have a right to our opinions, right or wrong, and showing more tolerance to those who don't share our perspective would probably be a step in the right direction? You speak of common courtesy and STR speaks of rancor. Could you post some examples where you feel this exists? Rational ~ I was just making a general statement that I felt Fixit would probably appreciate common courtesy in the form of more tolerance for the perspective of Christians posting on this Board. Actually, what harm could that do to be more tolerant? I also like to see this in TMB's future. However, I really don't think I would describe some of the disagreements on this Board as being likened to rancor ~ that's a pretty strong word with distasteful connotations, IMHO. I feel a more descriptive word might be frustration in posts over not being heard or misunderstood, which tends to lead to disagreements and hurt feelings and departures from TMB.
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Post by rational on Aug 27, 2014 12:24:59 GMT -5
Rational ~ I was just making a general statement that I felt Fixit would probably appreciate common courtesy in the form of more tolerance for the perspective of Christians posting on this Board. And the next question is can you provide some examples or what you are implying - intolerance toward the christians posting here.No harm. I look forward to your reading your examples.
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Post by faune on Aug 27, 2014 13:04:27 GMT -5
Rational ~ I was just making a general statement that I felt Fixit would probably appreciate common courtesy in the form of more tolerance for the perspective of Christians posting on this Board. And the next question is can you provide some examples or what you are implying - intolerance toward the christians posting here.No harm. I look forward to your reading your examples. Rational ~ I don't have the time to go through threads and pick out examples here. Sorry, but I can't oblige you in this area. Perhaps Bert would be more suited to that task due to his love for making list of people's comments? By the way, whatever happened to Bert's famous list of bloopers on TMB anyway? I used to get a kick out his cartoons and collection of tidbits for our amusement.
However, what I'm speaking about as an example of intolerance would be scorn and/or indifference demonstrated in posts towards people of faith. As far being more tolerant goes, I would guess trying to be respectful and tactful in ones responses would be a good start in avoiding controversy and strife on this board? Honestly, a little kindness in our words never hurts a conversation, too, and usually adds to the interaction between posters. JMT
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Post by bubbles on Aug 27, 2014 13:29:13 GMT -5
Faune
Onetime @ womens camp a friend who tended to get a bit high and mighty at times. Pushed my mates button. Mate mutters in m6 ear "just shoot it will ya"..I showed her turbolax or equivilant in my handbag. 'You want this, this do the trick?'she almost choked. Gee I miss her we always had a good laugh. I never did give Audrey the turbolax..too chicken she might do something worse.
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Post by rational on Aug 27, 2014 13:29:45 GMT -5
Rational ~ I don't have the time to go through threads and pick out examples here. Sorry, but I can't oblige you in this area. However, what I'm speaking about as an example of intolerance would be scorn and/or indifference demonstrated in posts towards people of faith. I know what you are claiming but while you keep implying that this happened you have not provided a reference to where this happened.Are you talking about intolerance, disrespectful posts, scornful posts? Providing examples would be a great help. You seem only concerned of what was posted towards christians.
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Post by faune on Aug 27, 2014 13:54:25 GMT -5
Rational ~ I don't have the time to go through threads and pick out examples here. Sorry, but I can't oblige you in this area. However, what I'm speaking about as an example of intolerance would be scorn and/or indifference demonstrated in posts towards people of faith. I know what you are claiming but while you keep implying that this happened you have not provided a reference to where this happened.Are you talking about intolerance, disrespectful posts, scornful posts? Providing examples would be a great help. You seem only concerned of what was posted towards christians. Rational ~ Actually I have noticed some distasteful comments from both Christians and atheists alike on pro-boards. It does goes both ways. Thanks for pointing out that fact. However, I do recall a few Christian posters, too, who made some unkind statements about atheists on TMB which made me take notice and also comment. What I witnessed demonstrated a lot of animosity towards anybody who shared atheistic beliefs and his words were far from kind. Perhaps that was what STR was referring to in her reference to "rancor," as the word describes such contempt well? I'm sure you remember that thread, too? That person appeared to me to really have an agenda and it was to put down atheists ever chance he got.
It's just attitudes like this which are not commendable and really distract from the discussions on the Board, turning them into a free for all. Honestly, perhaps it would be interesting to have somebody like Bert document these posts from both sides of the fence to make people more aware of what might be considered distasteful communication style?
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Post by fixit on Aug 27, 2014 14:44:00 GMT -5
Rational: Is it normal for you in real life to dissect everything people say line by line and word by word?
Or is that behavior that you reserve for TMB?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 27, 2014 14:56:30 GMT -5
I strongly doubt that Snow was within that group that happenstance of causing a quick exit by 2 of the best posters......I think I remember CD and Snow having some good conversations about some things back and forth with no negativity shown by either one. When a person's desire to attend such things as TMB wanes, it doesn't take an avalanche of things to finish extinguishing the last bits of live coals of desire to post on TMB or other such forums. It's kind of like a school, eh? When one has gone over the content enough to have it settled in ones mind, then when something harshly negative pops up against them, then who can blame them when they completely exit......? STR ~ I also strongly doubt Snow was a contributor in any way to strife on this Board, because she's more of a peacemaker and mediator when things start to go amiss. I guess you might call her the referee in some instances, too? However, she's a kind and gentle spirit and very graceful in her demeanor. She has also contributed a lot to good discussions on this Board along with CD and Edgar and some others in the past who don't post here anymore, especially within the last 6 months. Their knowledge and keen insights are a couple of things that I definitely miss these days and would hope things would turn around on TMB from lessons learned and some good people would return again?
I didn't appreciate Cherie's remark on Page 1, insinuating that the same people who were posting to this thread to encourage CD, Edgar, and others to return were the antagonists ~ with two exceptions. I believe Snow took that to heart personally by her statement immediately afterward and she hasn't posted since then, which is pretty sad. People really need to be more considerate of others on these pro-boards and sensitive to their feelings, IMHO. Saying harsh things to make a point is not showing good communication skills! People can express their disapproval without being snarky, IMHO.
Recently I resurrected an old thread I originated about two years ago about how conversations can precipitate into fights without notice. It's rather humorous in content, but it does make a valid point. Also, I resurrected a sister thread that goes along with this one on ad hominem (against the person) arguments and how to avoid them. If TMB is destined to survive and thrive, I believe everyone will need to make the effort to be more graceful and considerate of others who may not share their same opinions? JMT
professing.proboards.com/thread/20081/discussion-disagreement-argument-fight
professing.proboards.com/thread/20045/ad-hominem
Cherie's remark from Page 1...
It is possible that that was the remark that cinched Snow's exit! I am afraid she might have thought that was a quote from one of the sirs that had already exited and we were asking to consider to come back! Sometime and more then sometimes, things get written that can easily be taken in the wrong way by the wrong people. Also sometimes we run into a colloquial language difference, etc and what doesn't sound offensive to us does sound offensive to others. Giving reasonable leeway is often hard to do, considering our perception of what has been said. If things do not change, I suspect things will go just like Fixit says they will and that not within the next year....quicker.
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Post by Scott Ross on Aug 27, 2014 15:31:44 GMT -5
Just my opinion of course, so you are welcome to dissect my post line by line and word by word...... Oh, I don't have to. I would venture to say that in most cases it is a theist that brings up the challenge of whether god exists or not and an atheist that responds. Could you give some examples about theists bringing up the challenge of whether god exists? From what I read, the theists will give examples of what God has done in their lives, and the atheists ask for proof of their beliefs, and that is what derails many of the threads here on the TMB. (Kind of along the lines of your question to faune):
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Post by rational on Aug 27, 2014 15:47:36 GMT -5
Rational: Is it normal for you in real life to dissect everything people say line by line and word by word? If you believe that discussion on a message board is a reflection of real life you are mistaken. As I have explained in the past, I like to quote exactly what has been said and address each of the poster's thoughts/claims individually. This removes the possibility of anyone claiming I have misquoted the person to whom I am responding and removes any ambiguity as to which part of their post I am responding. I appreciate the effort people take when composing a post and do not want to treat it as just a "glob" of text and not respond to each of the points they took the effort to make should I wish. In this post, for example, I choose to ignore the ultimate phrase: Or is that behavior that you reserve for TMB? because I have already answered the question it raises and felt that it was posted not to gain additional information but to emphasize the point you are making. That point seems to me to be "Why do you worry about the individual premises of my post and not just accept the conclusion without question?" I think we have all been in situations where a bill of goods was presented and we just accepted the bottom line without bothering to question the details.
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Post by Scott Ross on Aug 27, 2014 16:21:10 GMT -5
So posting here is just a game of some sort? You aren't like this in real life? I will try to just respond to that I wish to. I don't think the issues are about accepting the conclusions without question. It is about constantly questioning others until they give up on the discussion, or simply give up on trying to explain their point of view. I see a lot of people here not wanting to question the details of some posts, as it means a group of people will gang up on them for stating their thoughts. It is almost as if there is an agenda to ridicule people for sharing their beliefs. Not a big deal, as most posters here see it happening, and try to ignore those that do so. Unfortunately, it has caused several people to quit being active posters, as they are tired of the same people diverting discussions from the original topic, and making a mockery of their belief system. Just my own observation and opinion of course, so feel free to disregard it as irrelevant..... Ha!!
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Post by SharonArnold on Aug 27, 2014 16:35:23 GMT -5
In this post, for example, I choose to ignore the ultimate phrase: Or is that behavior that you reserve for TMB? because I have already answered the question it raises and felt that it was posted not to gain additional information but to emphasize the point you are making. That point seems to me to be "Why do you worry about the individual premises of my post and not just accept the conclusion without question?" I think we have all been in situations where a bill of goods was presented and we just accepted the bottom line without bothering to question the details. Now, to be quite clear, just because I do not pick apart a post, does not mean that I accept the “conclusion” without question. Far from it. It may mean “I’m busy and I don’t care”, it may mean “This is so trivial that it doesn’t even reach my radar screen”, it may mean “I’m just really interested in where you might go with this, if unchallenged” … or any other myriad combinations and permutations of the above. Yes, I frequently accept the “bottom line” of someone else’s truth without bothering to question the details. I do not regret it a bit. Sometimes, if I sit with it for a while, it gives me insight into things that I have never considered before. What I do not accept is that the God of “reason”, “rationality”, or (someone else’s perception) of “facts” is superior to anyone else’s God. Even the God of Valiant Thor (not that I am really up to speed on that one). I'm starting to think that anyone who bills him/herself as an atheist is kidding themselves. People are just people, no matter what terminology they choose to use (or choose to reject). Respecting other people’s journey, no matter where they are, has enriched my life in so many ways – even ways that I do not have the capacity to recognize yet.
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Post by SharonArnold on Aug 27, 2014 16:48:12 GMT -5
It is possible that that was the remark that cinched Snow's exit! I am afraid she might have thought that was a quote from one of the sirs that had already exited and we were asking to consider to come back! Sometime and more then sometimes, things get written that can easily be taken in the wrong way by the wrong people. Also sometimes we run into a colloquial language difference, etc and what doesn't sound offensive to us does sound offensive to others. Giving reasonable leeway is often hard to do, considering our perception of what has been said. If things do not change, I suspect things will go just like Fixit says they will and that not within the next year....quicker. I think to jump to the conclusion that Snow has exited this board is a little pre-mature. She has taken leaves of absence from here before. I would think (from what I've seen of her) that if she was exiting, that she would clearly state that she was and the reason(s) why. Sometimes life just gets in the way of one's participation on this board.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 27, 2014 16:54:09 GMT -5
It is possible that that was the remark that cinched Snow's exit! I am afraid she might have thought that was a quote from one of the sirs that had already exited and we were asking to consider to come back! Sometime and more then sometimes, things get written that can easily be taken in the wrong way by the wrong people. Also sometimes we run into a colloquial language difference, etc and what doesn't sound offensive to us does sound offensive to others. Giving reasonable leeway is often hard to do, considering our perception of what has been said. If things do not change, I suspect things will go just like Fixit says they will and that not within the next year....quicker. I think to jump to the conclusion that Snow has exited this board is a little pre-mature. She has taken leaves of absence from here before. I would think (from what I've seen of her) that if she was exiting, that she would clearly state that she was and the reason(s) why. Sometimes life just gets in the way of one's participation on this board. Hi, Sharon #1! I think it was what Faune quoted as Snow's last post in that if people considered certain things or people to be the reason they exited the board and that IF she was one of them that she knew how to take care of that. And she hasn't posted since that post and had been very much in action just prior to that...I do not want her to exit permanently though Lord knows I'm tempted to do so myself! And what you've said above is what I"ve tried to say also...that when we write sometimes we do not read back to other people like we think we read to ourselves...thus misinterpretations and hurt feelings and anxiety and anger, etc happen..... I'm happy to see Scott posting more presently though! I miss him when he sets back....
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Post by faune on Aug 27, 2014 17:32:03 GMT -5
It is possible that that was the remark that cinched Snow's exit! I am afraid she might have thought that was a quote from one of the sirs that had already exited and we were asking to consider to come back! Sometime and more then sometimes, things get written that can easily be taken in the wrong way by the wrong people. Also sometimes we run into a colloquial language difference, etc and what doesn't sound offensive to us does sound offensive to others. Giving reasonable leeway is often hard to do, considering our perception of what has been said. If things do not change, I suspect things will go just like Fixit says they will and that not within the next year....quicker. I think to jump to the conclusion that Snow has exited this board is a little pre-mature . She has taken leaves of absence from here before. I would think (from what I've seen of her) that if she was exiting, that she would clearly state that she was and the reason(s) why. Sometimes life just gets in the way of one's participation on this board.Sharon ~ After all the commotion on this Board, I feel Snow is just taking a much needed break or sabbathical? She hasn't deleted her account yet, so that's a good sign she might be back again, IMHO? I also agree with your last statement, too. However, it's just a little ironic that her last post was in response to Cherie's remark on Page 1 of this thread and that was 7 days ago and she hasn't posted since then?
Personally, I didn't appreciate her insinuation that people who have left TMB blame it on some of the very posters of this thread. That was really an insensitive remark to make and presented connotations to most of us that we were "the enemy" on this Board. Incidentally, I remember similar remarks being made regarding some of us on TLC that were just as distasteful on Ilylo's board and certain people being blamed for others leaving their private fold in droves. I'm sure you must remember the imfamous thread about being kicked off of TLC about 2 years ago and all the contributors, myself included, who were singled out because we didn't fit their mold. Sounds awful familiar to me once again?
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 27, 2014 17:33:50 GMT -5
In this post, for example, I choose to ignore the ultimate phrase: Or is that behavior that you reserve for TMB? because I have already answered the question it raises and felt that it was posted not to gain additional information but to emphasize the point you are making. That point seems to me to be "Why do you worry about the individual premises of my post and not just accept the conclusion without question?" I think we have all been in situations where a bill of goods was presented and we just accepted the bottom line without bothering to question the details. Now, to be quite clear, just because I do not pick apart a post, does not mean that I accept the “conclusion” without question. Far from it. It may mean “I’m busy and I don’t care”, it may mean “This is so trivial that it doesn’t even reach my radar screen”, it may mean “I’m just really interested in where you might go with this, if unchallenged” … or any other myriad combinations and permutations of the above. Yes, I frequently accept the “bottom line” of someone else’s truth without bothering to question the details. I do not regret it a bit. Sometimes, if I sit with it for a while, it gives me insight into things that I have never considered before. What I do not accept is that the God of “reason”, “rationality”, or (someone else’s perception) of “facts” is superior to anyone else’s God. Even the God of Valiant Thor (not that I am really up to speed on that one). I'm starting to think that anyone who bills him/herself as an atheist is kidding themselves. People are just people, no matter what terminology they choose to use (or choose to reject).
Respecting other people’s journey, no matter where they are, has enriched my life in so many ways – even ways that I do not have the capacity to recognize yet. Sharon, do you believe that, as an atheist, what I believe is a "God?," -in your terms, "the God of “reason”, “rationality”, or (someone else’s perception) of “facts?”
Do You believe those of us who consider ourselves "atheists" are "kidding" ourselves? Would you make that same comment about a Christian, that they are "kidding themselves"?
Do you also believe that what the "terminology we choose to use (or choose to reject)" doesn't matter? That the terminology of Christian, theist, atheist, Hindu, Muslim, -whatever, -doesn't matter in how we define our beliefs.
Do you also believe that by posting such comments about atheists that you honestly "respect our journey?
Lastly, do you believe that I should allow your quotes to go "unchallenged?"
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Post by SharonArnold on Aug 27, 2014 17:41:31 GMT -5
Now, to be quite clear, just because I do not pick apart a post, does not mean that I accept the “conclusion” without question. Far from it. It may mean “I’m busy and I don’t care”, it may mean “This is so trivial that it doesn’t even reach my radar screen”, it may mean “I’m just really interested in where you might go with this, if unchallenged” … or any other myriad combinations and permutations of the above. Yes, I frequently accept the “bottom line” of someone else’s truth without bothering to question the details. I do not regret it a bit. Sometimes, if I sit with it for a while, it gives me insight into things that I have never considered before. What I do not accept is that the God of “reason”, “rationality”, or (someone else’s perception) of “facts” is superior to anyone else’s God. Even the God of Valiant Thor (not that I am really up to speed on that one). I'm starting to think that anyone who bills him/herself as an atheist is kidding themselves. People are just people, no matter what terminology they choose to use (or choose to reject).
Respecting other people’s journey, no matter where they are, has enriched my life in so many ways – even ways that I do not have the capacity to recognize yet. Sharon, do you believe that, as an atheist, what I believe is a "God?," -in your terms, "the God of “reason”, “rationality”, or (someone else’s perception) of “facts?”
Do You believe those of us who consider ourselves "atheists" are "kidding" ourselves? Would you make that same comment about a Christian, that they are "kidding themselves"?
Do you also believe that what the "terminology we choose to use (or choose to reject)" doesn't matter? That the terminology of Christian, theist, atheist, Hindu, Muslim, -whatever, -doesn't matter in how we define our beliefs.
Lastly, Do you also believe that by posting such comments about atheists that you honestly "respect our journey?
Yep.
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Post by SharonArnold on Aug 27, 2014 17:48:42 GMT -5
I think to jump to the conclusion that Snow has exited this board is a little pre-mature . She has taken leaves of absence from here before. I would think (from what I've seen of her) that if she was exiting, that she would clearly state that she was and the reason(s) why. Sometimes life just gets in the way of one's participation on this board.Sharon ~ After all the commotion on this Board, I feel Snow is just taking a much needed break or sabbathical? She hasn't deleted her account yet, so that's a good sign she will be back again, IMHO? I also agree with your last statement, too. However, it's just a little ironic that her last post was in response to Cherie's remark on Page 1 of this thread and that was 7 days ago and she hasn't posted since then? Personally, I didn't appreciate the insinuation that people who have left TMB blame it on some of the very posters of this thread. That was really an insensitive remark to make and presented connotations to most of us that we were "the enemy" on this Board. Incidentally, I remember similar remarks being made regarding some of us on TLC that were just as distasteful on Ilylo's board and certain people being blamed for others leaving their private fold in droves. I'm sure you must remember the imfamous thread about being kicked off of TLC about 2 years ago and all the contributors, myself included, who were singled out because we didn't fit their mold. Sounds awful familiar to me once again?
Faune, I expect that Snow is just off camping or something similar. And, *you* are NEVER "the enemy". Or never have been. Like Snow, you show an uncommon grace.
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Post by faune on Aug 27, 2014 18:02:07 GMT -5
Sharon ~ After all the commotion on this Board, I feel Snow is just taking a much needed break or sabbatical? She hasn't deleted her account yet, so that's a good sign she will be back again, IMHO? I also agree with your last statement, too. However, it's just a little ironic that her last post was in response to Cherie's remark on Page 1 of this thread and that was 7 days ago and she hasn't posted since then? Personally, I didn't appreciate the insinuation that people who have left TMB blame it on some of the very posters of this thread. That was really an insensitive remark to make and presented connotations to most of us that we were "the enemy" on this Board. Incidentally, I remember similar remarks being made regarding some of us on TLC that were just as distasteful on Ilylo's board and certain people being blamed for others leaving their private fold in droves. I'm sure you must remember the infamous thread about being kicked off of TLC about 2 years ago and all the contributors, myself included, who were singled out because we didn't fit their mold. Sounds awful familiar to me once again?
Faune, I expect that Snow is just off camping or something similar. And, *you* are NEVER "the enemy". Or never have been. Like Snow, you show an uncommon grace. Sharon ~ Thank you for your vote of confidence. However, during last year on TLC some actually perceived me as the enemy and treated me accordingly along with some others who departed shortly after I did. That's why I felt a personal dig was intended in Cherie's remark at the beginning of this thread. But, that's "water over the dam" now and I personally would like to see all this bickering come to an end and some good will be restored on TMB through exercising common courtesy.
After all, labels don't really mean that much, whether it be to denote an atheist or Christian, or some other form of religion. What really matters is trying to get along with one another and cutting some slack for those who differ from us in beliefs or whatever the case may be. I have seen some uncouth remarks from both sides of the aisle, believers and unbelievers alike, so I don't feel playing the blame game is justified here? I even commented to Rational earlier regarding this fact, too. Hopefully, we can all clean up our act and try and be nice to one another for a change?
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Post by rational on Aug 27, 2014 18:10:36 GMT -5
Could you give some examples about theists bringing up the challenge of whether god exists? From what I read, the theists will give examples of what God has done in their lives, and the atheists ask for proof of their beliefs, and that is what derails many of the threads here on the TMB. (Kind of along the lines of your question to faune): A recent post by by Irving Grey included: I would posit that it takes more blind faith on the part of an atheist to deny the existence of God. Christians do not have to twist ideas to justify our faith in the living God. The Psalmist expressed it succinctly when he says, The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” Psalm 14:1 The best I can do in a short time and it speaks to faith in god rather than the existence of God. But the biblical quote regarding the fool did start a lot of conversation. I should have more time this weekend.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 27, 2014 18:14:26 GMT -5
Sharon, #1) do you believe that, as an atheist, what I believe is a "God?," -in your terms, "the God of “reason”, “rationality”, or (someone else’s perception) of “facts?”
#2) Do You believe those of us who consider ourselves "atheists" are "kidding" ourselves? Would you make that same comment about a Christian, that they are "kidding themselves"?
#3) Do you also believe that what the "terminology we choose to use (or choose to reject)" doesn't matter? That the terminology of Christian, theist, atheist, Hindu, Muslim, -whatever, -doesn't matter in how we define our beliefs.
#4) Lastly, Do you also believe that by posting such comments about atheists that you honestly "respect our journey?
Yep. #1) OK. Then you do think you know the definition of "God?"
#2) Ok. As to this question, "Would you make that same comment about a Christian, that they are "kidding themselves"? Is that a "yep" also?
#3) OK. It doesn't matter to you the terminology that you use to describe your own belief? That is a "yep" as well? Whatever you believe,- the terminology doesn't matter, - You are a "Christian" or you aren't a "Christian," you are a "Hindu" or you are not a "Hindu." Terminology doesn't matter? Also ,"yep?"
#4) OK. Then I am to believe in spite of the comments that you made about atheists, - that you really do "respect my journey" from being a devout Christian 2x2 to being an atheist? "Yep?"
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Post by rational on Aug 27, 2014 18:16:34 GMT -5
So posting here is just a game of some sort? You aren't like this in real life? It is not a game but certainly not my life. Who ever wrote that original phrasing should be shot! I would never do that Scott!
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Post by SharonArnold on Aug 27, 2014 18:25:51 GMT -5
#1) OK. Then you do think you know the definition of "God?"
#2) Ok. As to this question, "Would you make that same comment about a Christian, that they are "kidding themselves"? Is that a "yep" also?
#3) OK. It doesn't matter to you the terminology that you use to describe your own belief? That is a "yep" as well? Whatever you believe,- the terminology doesn't matter, - You are a "Christian" or you aren't a "Christian," you are a "Hindu" or you are not a "Hindu." Terminology doesn't matter? Also ,"yep?"
#4) OK. Then I am to believe in spite of the comments that you made about atheists, - that you really do "respect my journey" from being a devout Christian 2x2 to being an atheist? "Yep?"
As far as defining "God", I don't think I would aspire that high. But, wiki or any of the online dictionaries might provide a starting point, if you have the need, and if you don't know where to begin. To be quite clear, my "Yep" was in answer to ALL of your questions.
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Post by faune on Aug 27, 2014 18:42:42 GMT -5
Sharon shared...
DMG ~ I feel you may be reading more into Sharon's post than is intended from your last few comments? I feel she's just saying that what we choose to label ourselves doesn't really define us ~ but, our words and actions do. The same thing goes for people who call themselves Christian or any other religious designation. When you take away the neat little boxes and classifications, we are just plain folks with a need to belong and to feel accepted by our peers within the world.
However, to accomplish that goal, we need to cut each other a little slack and learn to get along and tolerate each others differences and also look for some common ground, IMHO? Good communication is usually based upon respect, empathy, and caring for another's feelings. When this is present, it's usually a memorable moment. However, when it's absent, it leaves a hollow feeling inside due to failure to connect in a meaningful way. Honestly, there's a lot of truth to the lyrics of Glen Campbell song, "Try A Little Kindness" which usually pays off in the end.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaCBTSQZq1E Try A Little Kindness ~ Glen Campbell
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 27, 2014 19:41:02 GMT -5
#1) OK. Then you do think you know the definition of "God?"
#2) Ok. As to this question, "Would you make that same comment about a Christian, that they are "kidding themselves"? Is that a "yep" also?
#3) OK. It doesn't matter to you the terminology that you use to describe your own belief? That is a "yep" as well? Whatever you believe,- the terminology doesn't matter, - You are a "Christian" or you aren't a "Christian," you are a "Hindu" or you are :Dnot a "Hindu." Terminology doesn't matter? Also ,"yep?"
#4) OK. Then I am to believe in spite of the comments that you made about atheists, - that you really do "respect my journey" from being a devout Christian 2x2 to being an atheist? "Yep?"
As far as defining "God", I don't think I would aspire that high. But, wiki or any of the online dictionaries might provide a starting point, if you have the need, and if you don't know where to begin.To be quite clear, my "Yep" was in answer to ALL of your questions. Thank you for your information. I believe I know those places very well. My question was did you know the definition for a "god?"
Since you say your answers are "Yep" was in answer to ALL of your questions," I take it that indeed your "Yep" applies to, "Would you make that same comment about a Christian, that they are "kidding themselves"?
Thank you also for saying "Yep," to my question "that you really do "respect my journey" from being a devout Christian 2x2 to being an atheist? " I appreciate that.
Thank you for making yourself clear.
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Post by faune on Aug 27, 2014 20:20:30 GMT -5
DMG ~ I believe you would be surprised today by the number of young folks leaving devout 2x2 homes who now call themselves atheists/agnostics? I have seen people on the outside stop going to church, but I have not seen them totally lose their faith in a Creator God. Perhaps that says something about the 2x2 conditioning over the years that has not been addressed yet? When people are conditioned to believe that the way they are following is the "one and only way of salvation and the workers are the only instruments in connection to their salvation, it doesn't surprise me that when people discover the truth, a period of disallusionment sets in and some people lose all faith in God completely. I've been at that point in time myself after 30 years of professing and know how it feels.
When I left the 2x2's, I felt my whole world was crumbling around me. However, over the last 20 years, I learned that I was totally mistaken and that my spiritual life had just begun. I was holding on to all these "conditions" associated with salvation and connected to pleasing the workers, but I had no joy or satisfaction in my commitment to the Truth fellowship. It wasn't until I left and eventually began exploring my options outside, that I discovered what I had been missing all alone ~ namely, it's not about religion ~ it's about relationship cultivated between us and our God. We can dismiss His existence in our minds, but our hearts know differently. There's something that keeps us questioning and exploring our options and seeking for answers yet to be revealed.
Do you not think that speaks of "the kingdom of God" on the inside seeking for recognition? Otherwise, why the nagging questions that keep arising in our minds about the existence of a Creator God? I believe Anthony Flew, the famous atheist and religious philosopher, came to that realization just before his death and he co-wrote a book to convey how his thoughts had changed. He was one who believed in following the evidence wherever it leads, and eventually he came to believe in deism or the existence of a God behind the creation of the universe. Maybe not the Christian God as we speak of him today, but at least a belief in an eternal omnipotence who set in motion this universe and life itself. I have been reading his last book, "There Is (No) A God" and find it very impressive for a man who was honest enough in heart and willing to admit he just might be wrong about the existence of God after all. However, all this discovery usually comes after many doubts, research, and an inability to find just the right answers to suit our preconceptions.
Speaking for myself, I have been seeking to discover the evidence as to why atheists reject the existence of a God behind creation. Although I have read and listened to many innovative arguments to the contrary, I'm still not convinced that my faith in a God is in vain. Like Anthony Flew, the famous atheist of 50 years, who had written many books in the past, I find no reason to doubt my perceptions by observation of nature itself. I personally wonder how anybody can look upon the wonders of creation in the physical universe and life itself embedded in our DNA and not be convinced there is an omnipotent source behind it all? JMT
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