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Post by fixit on Aug 23, 2014 18:55:00 GMT -5
And must we put up with someone twisting our comments, which CD did that apparently some of you still can't see? Were we supposed just let them stand as he had twisted them as if they were in indeed what we had said?
Yes I don't think very many saw that no matter how many times it was explained. It's so interesting to read what CD wrote to Cherie "my tolerance for wasted time and hostile nonsense has dropped precipitously.....so that particular situation of a huge waste of time in a hostile setting was merely a catalyst." That is exactly how I feel because of the times CD (and others) attributed positions to me I never actually held and ideas I never had. Those false positions and misrepresentations were relentlessly defended as if they were the truth. What made that cross the line to hostile for me was the utter refusal to admit the misrepresentations - so there wasn't ever any remorse or apology for doing it. To the end they acted as if their imagination of my position was The Only Possible Truthful and Correct Representation. I harbor no ill will or resentment, that is easy for me to do because in spite of the false positions and misrepresentations attributed to me I know the real truth of the matter. I'd suppose it's the same for you DMG - you too know the real truth of the matter. Other's imaginations and misrepresentations will never change the real truth of the matter. Jesse, it seems that you and Rational and DMG will be able to enjoy good fellowship on TMB now that all the others have gone.
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Post by emy on Aug 23, 2014 19:53:18 GMT -5
I'm hoping Jesse will stick around awhile for discussion with all of us. Maybe a few others will also be back?
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Post by rational on Aug 23, 2014 19:54:45 GMT -5
Jesse, it seems that you and Rational and DMG will be able to enjoy good fellowship on TMB now that all the others have gone. Fixit - what would have been your course of action? Allow a post that misrepresents what you have said remain without comment? Not bother to ask the poster to back up their claims? If you misrepresent what someone posts, take responsibility for what you posted and correct it. Don't continue to promote the distortion. What solution do you have?
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 23, 2014 22:06:01 GMT -5
Jesse, it seems that you and Rational and DMG will be able to enjoy good fellowship on TMB now that all the others have gone. Fixit - what would have been your course of action? Allow a post that misrepresents what you have said remain without comment? Not bother to ask the poster to back up their claims? If you misrepresent what someone posts, take responsibility for what you posted and correct it. Don't continue to promote the distortion. What solution do you have? I Agree. What solution do you have, fixit?
Fixit is your avatar after all.
How would you "fixit" when someone was constantly twisting our comments?
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Post by fixit on Aug 24, 2014 5:26:24 GMT -5
I doubt that I can say much more without getting into an argument.
You, Jesse, and Rational "doth protest too much, methinks"
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Post by matisse on Aug 24, 2014 6:15:56 GMT -5
You, Jesse, and Rational "doth protest too much, methinks" "Methinks" it is just too easy to scapegoat the atheists and their friends, and THEN tell them that they "doth protest too much"!
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Post by rational on Aug 24, 2014 8:25:39 GMT -5
I doubt that I can say much more without getting into an argument. You, Jesse, and Rational "doth protest too much, methinks" I doubt you can address the distortion and fabrication. Hopefully if it ever happens again, when the distortion is pointed out and verified the poster can simple admit their mistake and apologize.
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Post by matisse on Aug 24, 2014 8:57:26 GMT -5
I am still amazed by how many people were unable to see the distortions and fabrications and their destructive effect when they were so obvious to me as an onlooker (mostly). I know there are good-hearted people among them; at least one previously "entrenched" poster seemed to have an epiphany and suddenly was able to articulate the problem clearly. IMO, if a poster is unable or unwilling to recognize and/or admit a mistake and apologize, the board is better off without them.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 24, 2014 13:22:18 GMT -5
I changed my name because I feel like I am a different person now, and the fact that I posted a lot of zealous things without a lot of wisdom etc. That being said I used to post as Davinci. For the last 7 years I kinda moved away from home, graduated, and left the 2x2's. Now I have trained to be a "false prophet" (according to the workers and several "friends"), in other words I went to bible college for 4 years and am now back in the world and have started my own business in digital media. One of those smart guys eh? "digital media".....hey does that relate to my "digital piano"? BTW, welcome back! Growing is always changing folks that have embraced such a thing, eh?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 24, 2014 13:33:57 GMT -5
I started this thread to let CD and EM that some of us were missing them horribly and also meant to put Stanne in there as well. I did not particularly want or desire that the old argument regarding why CD and EM lef to be repeated and repeated and repeated on THIS THREAD!
NOW I will ask DMG, Rational and Jesse to please start their own thread so that they can discuss how much wrong has been done to them and the rest of us can see how wrong they've been treated......................again!
Someone told me some years ago...for me to be waiting for an apology or in my heart and mind demanding an apology makes me as bad a person as the one who should be apologizing to me. And yes, I've been belittle and wronged all over TMB and likely I've participated when I really didn't realize it and I'll offer the apology for all wrongs done to other people on TMB and I'll say it is from All of us who have EVER been on TMB....Now can we even the score? And welcome back the posters who we do miss greatly?
Thank you very much!
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Post by faune on Aug 24, 2014 14:32:55 GMT -5
RAM is OK - We emailed back and forth quite a bit last week. He sent me some photos of Scotland. He is very busy and short on time. He's a writer, volunteer and has family he takes care of. We met with him for an enjoyable dinner when we visited Scotland in April. Unless he changes his mind...CD wont be back. He wrote me...It's not going to happen. The exit may seem sudden but it had been coming for some time. Some may think it was a emotional departure or something but there is no anger or hurt involved. To summarize, my "mission" on TMB has been evaporating over the last couple of years so as a result, my tolerance for wasted time and hostile nonsense has dropped precipitously.....so that particular situation of a huge waste of time in a hostile setting was merely a catalyst. I would have stayed around without a mission for friendly banter and fewer posts but that sort of friendly environment doesn't exist, or at least not to a sufficient extent to convince me to stay or go back. I'm a big believer in freedom of expression so I think Admin should probably err in that direction and let things go wherever it's going to go.
I too find very little on TMB worth my time to read anymore, and rarely post anymore, preferring to give my time to other things I find more satisfying. The atmosphere of TMB reminds me of the time we decided to create TLC, five years ago, back in Aug 2009. Pretty dead and monopolized by a few frequent posters.
Fixit's comment was right on target also: Folks who want to discuss 2x2 church issues don't always want to debate the existence of God. I wouldnt be surprised if he also leaves... I notice hberry and jondough aren't posting much anymore either... FWIW, I have been told by some of the "missing people" that the very ones inquiring about the missing TLCers edit: TMBers are the reason they are no longer coming here. TMB is not doing anything for them anymore, and they have better ways to spend their time. They move on...
Time for a reality check: "I have seen the enemy, and it is me."
PS Not talking about you STR/Sharon!
CK edited to correct TLCers to TMBersCherie ~ I totally forgot to ask you if Clearday gave you permission to share his private E-mail to you here on TMB? Also, I didn't see any quotes around CD's exact words either? Were you paraphasing him perhaps? Isn't that like violating your own Privacy Rules you hold dear on TLC and quote as reason for permanent termination without warning? Does being Admin. on that Board give you exception to the rules of pro-board engagement? Just wondering? Also, if I remember right, TLC was experiencing quite an exodus by your own admission around the time I left myself? Perhaps the same people felt it was time to move on for similar reasons?
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 24, 2014 14:53:10 GMT -5
I doubt that I can say much more without getting into an argument. You, Jesse, and Rational "doth protest too much, methinks" So, fixit, are you saying that you, "fixit" don't have a solution to "fixit?" other than telling people you think that we "doth protest too much?"
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Post by fixit on Aug 24, 2014 17:22:29 GMT -5
I doubt that I can say much more without getting into an argument. You, Jesse, and Rational "doth protest too much, methinks" So, fixit, are you saying that you, "fixit" don't have a solution to "fixit?" other than telling people you think that we "doth protest too much?"I can't think of anything to say that won't result in an argument.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Aug 24, 2014 17:51:39 GMT -5
From Cherie's quote of CD's email; "I would have stayed around without a mission for friendly banter and fewer posts but that sort of friendly environment doesn't exist, or at least not to a sufficient extent to convince me to stay or go back."
Who gets to define what a "friendly environment" is? Those who have had false positions attributed to them? Those who have had their words twisted, maligned, and mispreresented? Should actions of that ilk consistently happen in a "friendly environment"? Should that kind of behavior be vehemently defended and doubled down on in a "friendly environment"?
Is it really only the words of defense and correction from the maligned and misrepresented that makes the environment unfriendly?? When called on it do people doing the maligning and misrepresenting really have the exclusive right to then define the environment as unfriendly?
I'm thinking of the words of Ellis Wyatt; "I am leaving it as I found it. Take over. It's yours."
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 24, 2014 17:55:00 GMT -5
So, fixit, are you saying that you, "fixit" don't have a solution to "fixit?" other than telling people you think that we "doth protest too much?" I can't think of anything to say that won't result in an argument. Of course, God Forbid! -You wouldn't want to say something that would result in an argument, would you? Of course that didn't stop you from making argument provoking statements like this, does it? "Jesse, it seems that you and Rational and DMG will be able to enjoy good fellowship on TMB now that all the others have gone.
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Post by rational on Aug 24, 2014 23:10:14 GMT -5
I started this thread to let CD and EM that some of us were missing them horribly and also meant to put Stanne in there as well. I did not particularly want or desire that the old argument regarding why CD and EM lef to be repeated and repeated and repeated on THIS THREAD! You posted a thread stating that you wanted CD and EM to return and stated why. Don't you think it is only fair that a balance view be presented? Speaking only for myself, I have never said anyone had treated me wrong. While it is true that I was misquoted and what I said was distorted but it is what happens in a discussion. The issue I had was that the distortions and fabrications continued even after they were pointed out and verified. Since you started the thread posting related material is certainly appropriate. I am not sure who is waiting for an apology. I just hope that if a similar situation comes up in the future that once an error is pointed out that the poster can either support their claim or admit their mistake.I think you have made it clear that you will welcome them back. You're welcome?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Aug 25, 2014 9:39:55 GMT -5
Rational wrote: "Don't you think it is only fair that a balance view be presented?"
Rational, it seems to me that a "balance view" or the other side of the coin or issue had been well presented, represented, etc several times....but IF someone feels it needed reported again, I would have rather had them do it on another thread. Mainly because I have NO part in the parties' disagreement, etc and I was trying to allow anyone else who had NO part in your defensiveness to ascert their desires that CD and Edgar would feel welcome to return! When the rancor got put on my supposedly intended positive thread when IT was not asked for nor IT was not necessary, it just about makes me want to leave TMB.....so carry on, don't get your own thread or not...I'm of the mind to delete all my posts and let all of the others hang out there to show just how much rancor there really still is....and that CD and Edgar would be chased off of TMB again should they return! Along with several others....likely me for one!
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Post by rational on Aug 25, 2014 11:03:06 GMT -5
Rational wrote: "Don't you think it is only fair that a balance view be presented?" Rational, it seems to me that a "balance view" or the other side of the coin or issue had been well presented, represented, etc several times....but IF someone feels it needed reported again, I would have rather had them do it on another thread. I would rather that the balanced posts were all in the same thread.And are the posts all made by disinterested posters?I fail to see the rancor. I do see rancor posted in response to your post and other posts in this thread.I wonder if we are both using the same definition of rancor. rancorBitterness or resentfulness, especially when long-standing.. I am not sure who you feel is bitter or resentful. I just became tired of having my posts distorted and untrue facts fabricated without any attempt of the poster to correct the errors when they were pointed out. And then you posted this: No one chased them off. They left. They (CD in particular) was presented with several of the distortions and fabrications that he posted. He was given multiple opportunities to either support his posts or admit that he had posted distortion and/or fabrications. He declined to do so. Other than the information posted here I have no idea why CD or EM left. If it was because they were challenged because of inaccurate posts and were unable to either support their claims or admit they had posted information in error I am not sure how that would equate to them being chased off the TMB. Perhaps you could explain.That is a decision that only you can make. You have the right, of course, to make whatever choice is best for you. But is running away when challenged the best course of action?
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Post by rational on Aug 25, 2014 15:30:35 GMT -5
Well hey, if nothing else this little situation has given a reason for Jesse to be on the same side of an argument a rational and DMG. From my limited time as a member, it seemed like that would have never happened. Silver lining? Jesse and I have been on the same side of discussions in the past. Perhaps agreeing on content would be a stretch. That is part of the point of this discussion. It was not content that caused disagreement. It was the distortions and fabrications that were addressed that raised the issues. And it was not limited to one 'group' as has been implied.
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Post by fixit on Aug 25, 2014 16:12:14 GMT -5
Rational, Jesse, DMG - I would be interested to know your vision of what you'd like TMB to be going forward.
What kind of topics would you like to discuss?
What kind of people would you like to participate?
To me it seems that we're no longer seeing much good quality content, but perhaps you have something in mind for a worthwhile direction for TMB?
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Post by rational on Aug 25, 2014 17:20:47 GMT -5
Rational, Jesse, DMG - I would be interested to know your vision of what you'd like TMB to be going forward. I like the way you do not bother to present your views when asked then expect others to answer your questions. I would like to see any topic that anyone is interested in discussed. I would like people to state their beliefs when they are beliefs and when they state what they classify as factual information be able to present supporting data. I am willing to discuss any topic with the exception of people's beliefs. At times it is interesting to try to determine why people believe as they do but more times than not people do not like to be grilled regarding material or logical support for the beliefs they hold that are founded on faith. Nor to I think they should have to offer any explanation unless they are inclined to do so. I prefer humans but is there are other species that can articulate their feelings on a message board I would be willing to give that a try. What do you consider a worthwhile topic? The one that caused all of this upset was new research and different views regarding the long term effects of child sexual abuse and the possible need for a different approach in the treatment of abused children. Did you not consider that worthwhile? There have been discussions from the persecution of one group of humans by other groups, people's ideas on euthanasia, to whether men find the natural look more appealing than women wearing makeup. I am sure there have been other threads that I either can't recall or, like the possibility of going to hell because I wear purple knickers, that I do not spend a lot of time on. And then there has been considerable discussion about how people should address other posters when they are misrepresented and their position is distorted. I will admit all of these topics will not be put forward in consideration of a Nobel prize but I found them interesting. So, now it is your turn. What topics would you like to see discussed? Just don't choose to talk about the existence of god or the attributes shared by all people who do not believe in god!
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Post by fixit on Aug 25, 2014 17:42:23 GMT -5
Rational: thanks for your input. I think I'll leave it for you and DMG and Jesse and Review005 to hold the floor.
Review005: I agree - there are statements made that shouldn't remain unchallenged whether online or from the pulpit.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 25, 2014 18:31:30 GMT -5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Someone told me some years ago...for me to be waiting for an apology or in my heart and mind demanding an apology makes me as bad a person as the one who should be apologizing to me. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Did you ever question that who ever made such a statement as that just might be wrong in their evaluation?
That perhaps they were just using that as an excuse for not making an apology?
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Post by rational on Aug 25, 2014 19:02:34 GMT -5
Rational: thanks for your input. I think I'll leave it for you and DMG and Jesse and Review005 to hold the floor. So, again, when asked a question relevant to the discussion you either ask another question or walk away. Of course, that is your choice.
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 25, 2014 19:16:25 GMT -5
I don't know, been asking that myself. He hasn't been on for a long time. Nathan seems to think he's Valiant Thor but I don't think so. NathanB is very confused and has been misguided by reading some of the people who have no regard for the true story but only want to publish whatever they feel will fill their pockets. Why would this Ram want to be me? I don't want to be Ram. Soon I hope the truth will be shown to Nathan and he will be back on track. Commander Valiant Thor Now look what has happened! We have even got Cmdr. Val Thor answering!
I do so hope we aren't in trouble!
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Post by Commander Valiant Thor on Aug 26, 2014 7:26:52 GMT -5
NathanB is very confused and has been misguided by reading some of the people who have no regard for the true story but only want to publish whatever they feel will fill their pockets. Why would this Ram want to be me? I don't want to be Ram. Soon I hope the truth will be shown to Nathan and he will be back on track. Commander Valiant Thor hmmm Is that the earthly equivalent to Amen?
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Post by bubbles on Aug 26, 2014 7:45:30 GMT -5
Why did I have dejavue when I saw that name Cmdr Val Thor
Lol someone having a laugh
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Post by rational on Aug 26, 2014 8:00:06 GMT -5
Why did I have dejavue when I saw that name Cmdr Val Thor Lol someone having a laugh Someone mentioned that NathanB might be having a go at us by posting as Cmdr Val Thor. I have a feeling NathanB is having a go at everyone when posting some of the cut/paste things he does. No one could actually believe such things to be true in the face of the what has been discovered about the earth and planets. I wonder if the reality police ever arrest people for breaking the laws of physics?
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