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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2014 17:15:42 GMT -5
Maybe I should explain better. The name of this thread is Atheists Beware! Being an atheist I naturally was concerned what I needed to be aware of.
The last two sites W. Tell posted came from Christian or religious links.
That being the case, by their own belief system those sites are naturally biased against the whole idea of atheism. Therefore, how much can we depend on what they say? How much credence can those of us who non-religious, non-Christian give to their statistics?
Surely you would agree that one shouldn't believe everything on the internet can be taken as true!
Perhaps you can explain why my statement seems so chilling, frightening, & unexpected?
My "open mind" includes not only looking at the posts presented but also who or what organization is posting them.
Do you not believe that is a rational view to take?
I can only say that I am glad that I did not choose “belief system” as one of my selection criterion when choosing which authors of The Western Canon to consider credible. Did any of the Western canon authors have no belief system? Which version of the Bible do you read?
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2014 17:27:09 GMT -5
I wonder if the fact that Robin Williams was an atheist was the reason, "Robin Williams' daughter Zelda is taking a break from social media after she was sent hurtful messages about the death of her father." I found it quite awesome when, at the funeral of Pat Tillman, his brother (I think it was his brother) finally got to speak. It was after he had been praised for his service to American freedom (he was killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan ) and that he was resting in peace in heaven and we would all meet him again to express our appreciation for his [martyrdom]. When the family member finally got to speak he said: Pat is dead. He's f...g dead and he's not coming back and you're not going to see him again. And I resent your using this occasion to push your Christian agenda. (The Tillman family are atheists.) And Pat left a million-dollar career to earn such an honor. Almost makes one puke to think of it.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2014 17:28:54 GMT -5
So has anyone figured out what atheists have to beware of?
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Post by snow on Aug 13, 2014 17:39:55 GMT -5
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Post by snow on Aug 13, 2014 17:43:29 GMT -5
So has anyone figured out what atheists have to beware of? Well of course. If you're an atheist you are more likely to succumb to suicide than those who have something to live for after they die. Or something like that lol
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Post by Gene on Aug 13, 2014 18:02:43 GMT -5
So has anyone figured out what atheists have to beware of? Little girls in ruby red slippers bearing buckets of water?
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2014 18:03:31 GMT -5
Ross, Where is your proof of this statement? "1. The assisted suicide or euthanasia agenda is being driven by atheists."
Over 20 years ago when I first joined a group to advocate the the right to choose when one dies, (euthanasia) the group consisted of mostly religious people.
Do you have different stats for the present ? Or is that comment just another backhanded slap at atheists?
The drive to legalise euthanasia or assisted suicide has not been driven by religious groups who believe in God - that's pretty clear! It's not a backhanded slap at all - it's reality. I would expect an atheist to take the position that they have the right to choose when they would end their own life - wouldn't you? You expect a lot of things from people who aren't in your reality bubble. Your bubble needs some window cleaner.
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Post by rational on Aug 13, 2014 18:20:46 GMT -5
It’s difficult to know when Williams is being serious about religion or if it’s all part of the act. He now seems to identify Episcopalian–like his father–which he describes as “Catholic light: half the religion, half the guilt.” Change is for was and seemed for now seems? Or do you know something the rest of us don't Rational? I was simply reading what was reported on more than one site. I didn't see a statement that he was an atheist. Just asking the question.
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Post by rational on Aug 13, 2014 18:24:27 GMT -5
Thank who ever you like that there are people out there willing to tackle the big issues. I haven't seen reliable stats on lots of things. One of them I bet is that the percentage of people medicated to death in religous hospitals and non-religous hospitals is about the same. I would take that bet!
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Post by rational on Aug 13, 2014 18:28:40 GMT -5
So has anyone figured out what atheists have to beware of? Well of course. If you're an atheist you are more likely to succumb to suicide than those who have something to live for after they die. Or something like that lol Nope. If you are a male who killed himself you are more likely to have lived in a country that has a higher than average percentage of atheists. I don't think it addressed the individual belief system at all.
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Post by rational on Aug 13, 2014 18:35:02 GMT -5
The drive to legalise euthanasia or assisted suicide has not been driven by religious groups who believe in God - that's pretty clear! How clear? Percent of public who support euthanasia for the terminally ill / on life support 86% sourceI would say that the majority of the people supporting euthanasia are theists. Or maybe atheists have made large strides in the past year!
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Post by snow on Aug 13, 2014 18:37:06 GMT -5
Well of course. If you're an atheist you are more likely to succumb to suicide than those who have something to live for after they die. Or something like that lol Nope. If you are a male who kills himself you are more likely to live in a country that has a higher than average percentage of atheists. I don't think it addressed the individual belief system at all. There ya go! You were paying attention. I still like Gene's answer though.
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Post by xna on Aug 13, 2014 18:41:50 GMT -5
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Post by rational on Aug 13, 2014 18:52:44 GMT -5
So has anyone figured out what atheists have to beware of? Little girls in ruby red slippers bearing buckets of water? My WIFE?? Say it ain't so!
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2014 18:53:59 GMT -5
I have the good fortune to have the ability to bring about my own death painlessly and without any action on my part whenever I want. And that is exactly how I will die. According to God's plan it appears that my time to go was in late 2004, and as I remember I was suffering nothing, either physically or emotionally. In fact, I was quite comfortable. I owe the last 10 years of my life to specific individuals who, ironically, were/are Muslims, atheists, gays, and euthanasia supporters. I wasn't looking for them -- they came to me. I had Christianity in several stripes that I could have turned to for help, but ironically the only thing they could do for me was offer me was something after I died, and that was IF I ..... whatever. It was not a great time in my life to be asked to give more -- and my illness was the least of the reasons it was no time to ask for more. God's time would have cheated me out of the privilege of being around for by two daughters while they raised their children as single parent. As far as my death is concerned, it has nothing to do with God's timing any more. It has everything to do with time and chance and science and lifestyle and then if none of that takes me I guess I will eventually just sit down and pass away. No one deserves to conduct a funeral for me who hasn't contributed to the best years of my life, and neither do they have the right to tell me I have to endure the rest of my life in excruciating pain or coma simply because medical science can do that to me. I don't even think they deserve to know how I died -- it's none of their business. My death is, after all, more my business than anyone else's. And if you think I am being selfish, I challenge you to confirm that with my wife and family. Some of this keep-them-alive stuff sounds like nothing more than the devil plaguing one until he hasn't a single breath left to survive on. FWIW
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2014 18:54:46 GMT -5
So has anyone figured out what atheists have to beware of? Little girls in ruby red slippers bearing buckets of water? OMG - one of them just walked past our front door.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2014 19:02:33 GMT -5
Well of course. If you're an atheist you are more likely to succumb to suicide than those who have something to live for after they die. Or something like that lol Nope. If you are a male who kills himself you are more likely to live in a country that has a higher than average percentage of atheists. I don't think it addressed the individual belief system at all. The numbers are worthless without the questions, aren'[y they.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2014 19:04:42 GMT -5
Nope. If you are a male who kills himself you are more likely to live in a country that has a higher than average percentage of atheists. I don't think it addressed the individual belief system at all. There ya go! You were paying attention. I still like Gene's answer though. If that little girl doesn't stop walking back and forth in front of my house I'm going to borrow my neighbor's gun and shoot her.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2014 19:05:52 GMT -5
Little girls in ruby red slippers bearing buckets of water? My WIFE?? Say it ain't so! You better get over here and get her. She's scaring the LIFE out of me.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2014 19:25:02 GMT -5
I suspect what contributes to your surprise is your lack of reliable statistics and your obvious disapproval of atheists. But then, such surprise is not surprising from anyone who thinks that the euthanasia agenda is being drive by atheists. Come on, Ross, that statement was nothing more than a flippant swap at atheists. Have you ever been to a euthanasia support group meeting? Who thought of the derogatory term "assisted suicide" anyway? Something like the supposed "death panels" Obama care was supposed to have brought into being. Euthanasia is not about cheating the creator of his right to end life -- euthanasia is more about allowing the creator to take the life, and keep the politicians and medical professionals from preserving them as breathing vegetables. I thought this comment was specifically about you. Bob, I have a number of good friends who are atheists. My comment is not having a go at all against atheists - it's just a reality that those groups who are pushing to legalise euthanasia in many countries are humanists who are typically (but not always) aligned with secularists and non-theistic religions (if any religion ie they are often atheists). It's interesting how Christians can be accused about worshipping "a God of the gaps" and other terms that are laughingly flung around about Christians (including on this board) but the moment that something is said about atheism and euthanasia/assisted suicide the accusations about having cheap shots at atheists fly. I'm not so sure that euthanasia is more about allowing the creator to take the life....although understand where you are coming from. The main Euthanasia advocate in Australia, Dr Nitcschke, a humanist has recently been deregistered by the medical board in Australia for allegedly assisting a healthy 45 year old to end his life. His appeal is currently underway. In my view, euthanasia/assisted suicide is a potentially slippery slope. And the president of the USA is a black Kenyan -- Americans must be mostly WHAT. Muslims ?? Everything is potentially a slippery slope. There is evil everywhere just waiting to wet the slope for us. If my mother had never raised me on milk I may never have become addicted to caffeine.
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Post by placid-void on Aug 13, 2014 19:25:59 GMT -5
Did any of the Western canon authors have no belief system? Which version of the Bible do you read? Don't know the answer to your first question. Here is the list of 26 authors selected by Harold Bloom for his Western Canon: Shakespeare, Dante, Chaucer, Cervantes, Montaigne, Molière, John Milton, Samuel Johnson, Goethe, Wordsworth, Jane Austen, Walt Whitman, Emily Dickinson, Charles Dickens, George Eliot, Tolstoy, Henrik Ibsen, Freud, Proust, James Joyce, Virginia Woolf, Franz Kafka, Jorge Luis Borges, Pablo Neruda, Fernando Pessoa and Samuel Beckett. Other critics have selected other authors, many post-modern critics challenge the entire concept of cultural canons. My thinking happens to be most closely aligned with Harold Bloom’s perspective. The "belief systems" of these (or other) authors has been of little interest to me, I am more interested in the works they have produced. I have found some of the works of some of the authors to be quite provocative. Please feel free to explore their "belief systems" at your leisure. Regarding your second question, I do not read the bible regularly. When I have reason to read a portion, I most frequently turn to the KJV since I am most familiar with the vernacular and cadence of that version.
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Post by Gene on Aug 13, 2014 19:30:53 GMT -5
Do you suppose the real reason society at large is against suicide is that it robs the powerful, whether religious or secular, of the power of the ultimate threat?
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Post by placid-void on Aug 13, 2014 19:48:56 GMT -5
Do you suppose the real reason society at large is against suicide is that it robs the powerful, whether religious or secular, of the power of the ultimate threat? No Gene, that explanation does not really resonate with me. Rather, I think that it is difficult for the majority of society to contemplate the despair that must be experienced by one who chooses suicide. I suspect that it is fear of that abyss that causes most in a society to "be against" suicide. Masada and Jonestown not withstanding, I don't think suicide is commonly selected as an alternative in the face of "the ultimate threat by 'the powerful'"
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 20:12:26 GMT -5
a tragedy to say the least... in the bible we have 3 cases of suicide(that i could find)King Saul, Samson and Judas, all ended badly. there is nothing in the bible against suicide but neither is there anything for suicide...its a 50/50 chance in my estimation that you'll go to hell for self-murder...
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Post by xna on Aug 13, 2014 20:33:36 GMT -5
a tragedy to say the least... in the bible we have 3 cases of suicide(that i could find)King Saul, Samson and Judas, all ended badly. there is nothing in the bible against suicide but neither is there anything for suicide...its a 50/50 chance in my estimation that you'll go to hell for self-murder... Also Abimelech (Judges 9:54) Saul's armor-bearer (1 Samuel 31:4-6) Ahithophel (2 Samuel 17:23) Zimri (1 Kings 16:18)
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Post by snow on Aug 13, 2014 20:34:10 GMT -5
Do you suppose the real reason society at large is against suicide is that it robs the powerful, whether religious or secular, of the power of the ultimate threat? No Gene, that explanation does not really resonate with me. Rather, I think that it is difficult for the majority of society to contemplate the despair that must be experienced by one who chooses suicide. I suspect that it is fear of that abyss that causes most in a society to "be against" suicide. Masada and Jonestown not withstanding, I don't think suicide is commonly selected as an alternative in the face of "the ultimate threat by 'the powerful'" That surely has to be part of it. It is no respecter of persons, depression can happen to anyone.
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Post by faune on Aug 13, 2014 21:10:04 GMT -5
So has anyone figured out what atheists have to beware of? Christians? LOL
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 21:13:49 GMT -5
So has anyone figured out what atheists have to beware of? Yep. Religous nuts who are threatened by them. This is thread is just fear-mongering. If an aetheist doesn't kill themselves they are likely to come after you in some euthanasia program. I mistakenly thought this board was capable of a more thoughtful discussion than highlighting this irrelevant difference.
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