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Post by bubbles on Nov 29, 2014 6:07:02 GMT -5
Oh, I love my kitties! I have two of them, and they're the best. I love them for their intellect! And make no mistake -- they love me because I feed them, brush them, and clean their litter box. Not because they have a heart. Think about it. Have you ever actually seen a cat's heart? Didn't think so. That proves it. Update: I know at least one of our cats has a heart, because I've seen the x-rays. Sadly, our two boys are getting old -- they are litter mates, brothers, chocolate persians, sweet personalities and yet very different. We love them both so much, and the one whose x-ray we now have is not doing so well. He has chronic bronchitis or asthma or both, now, and the medications don't seem to be helping much. His doctor has seen him nearly every other day for the past two weeks, but he's still struggling to breathe, and not eating. So we're afraid he's approaching the end of his shelf life, unfortunately. Arrgh! When we adopt a pet, we know we're likely to out-live it, but it's still tough when happens! When my darling B was put to sleep my heart broke. He was 12. It cost me a couple of grand before I decided to put him to sleep. Id moved house a number of times. The last move he went missing for 6wks. We think he fell asleep on the trailer and walked home. (40mins away) He went missing again sleeping inside someones caravan across the road at the beach. Woke up when the owners arrived home to discover he had slept the trip. It was 2hrs away. My daughter adopted a beautiful kitten for me. I chose her name before i met her. When i picked her up I knew she was the one. She is delightful and very pretty. S is now 18mth. The animals i have adopted have turned out to be the loveliest natured. 3 now.
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Post by snow on Nov 29, 2014 12:37:31 GMT -5
I can't believe that God would be so merciless as to grant eternal life to those whose passion is hunting, but at the same time fail to provide any game for them to hunt. But then again, maybe all hunters are going to Hell. Well, think about it.
In Genesis it states that, "Abel was a keeper of flocks, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
3 So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the Lord of the fruit of the ground.
4 Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and for his offering;
5 but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard."
So it seems that at least the OT god preferred a blood sacrifice.
Of course the NT god did the same. Doesn't matter how much people want to believe the NT GOD is so loving.
I guess that proves God is not a vegetarian! He likes his meat sacrifices, no broccoli for God The attempt to make the God of the bible into a loving God is full of problems.
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Post by snow on Nov 29, 2014 12:41:32 GMT -5
Well, think about it.
In Genesis it states that, "Abel was a keeper of flocks, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
3 So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the Lord of the fruit of the ground.
4 Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and for his offering;
5 but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard."
So it seems that at least the OT god preferred a blood sacrifice.
Of course the NT god did the same. Doesn't matter how much people want to believe the NT GOD is so loving.
I don't understand why so many religions like slaughter. Hindu trying to out do the OT. Every five years, the world’s largest animal sacrifice takes place at the Gadhimai Temple in Nepal. The month-long festival has raised controversy due to the large number of animals killed – up to 500,000 over two days. www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/nepal-mass-animal-slaughter-underway-despite-protests/article1-1290956.aspxIt's pretty crazy but all religions seem to think God requires a blood sacrifice. Probably because they all understood fairly quickly that losing a lot of blood ended in death so it became sacred to them?? If it was important to them then they likely thought it was sacred to the God they were trying to appease. The sacrifice of Jesus was a blood sacrifice and very ancient in it's religious roots. What I find interesting about the blood sacrifice of God/Jesus was it was also an attempt at ending the blood sacrifices that the Hebrew people took part in religiously. Quite a dramatic step actually when you think about it.
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Post by snow on Nov 29, 2014 12:43:39 GMT -5
Most animals don't kill their own kind. They will kill other 'kinds' though. I have a feeling you are not considering the full range of animals when you make this statement. Some spiders, for example, kill their mates. Flat worms have no problem eating their friends and neighbors! Cannibalism is common in the animal kingdom. More than 1,000 species have been known to eat members of their own species. You're right. Wasn't taking in the full spectrum was I.
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Post by xna on Nov 29, 2014 22:30:38 GMT -5
I'm not sure what Hindus thinks about cows. They have a really big cow killing festival, then eat or sell the meat, yet cows are scared to them? I guess there are many different Hindu sects with different ideas on cows? I have one Hindu friend who is a strict vegetarian. He tells me all animals have a soul. Also says rocks have a soul. Says when he dies, if he was really good then he comes back as a cow, if he was really bad this go around, then he come back as a meat eater, like a lion. Also says no problem being an atheist and a Hindu at the same time. Makes no sense to me but Hinduism has staying power. www.religionfacts.com/hinduism/things/cow.htm
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Post by slowtosee on Nov 29, 2014 23:00:11 GMT -5
Surprisingly, quite a number of "religous, " people are atheists. Can't remember the percentage for sure. But I think protestants was about 10 percent, catholic higher and jewish. Quite a bit higher. Trying to make "judgements " on religous or nonreligious people is not as simplistic as many suggest. All those "stupid" religous people or "stupid" atheists, might very well be the "same" as you. Alvin
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Post by rational on Nov 30, 2014 1:23:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure what Hindus thinks about cows. They have a really big cow killing festival, then eat or sell the meat, yet cows are scared to them???? When you say 'cows' do you also mean bulls? Cows may well be sacred but what is the status of bulls (yep - that is homework!)? Does anyone know the answer?
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Post by xna on Nov 30, 2014 8:28:23 GMT -5
Surprisingly, quite a number of "religous, " people are atheists. Can't remember the percentage for sure. But I think protestants was about 10 percent, catholic higher and jewish. Quite a bit higher. Trying to make "judgements " on religous or nonreligious people is not as simplistic as many suggest. All those "stupid" religous people or "stupid" atheists, might very well be the "same" as you. A Alvin I suspect there are many fewer if any hypocrite atheists vs hypocrite theists. How many if any, hypocrite professing 2x2, or hypocrite workers now? How many 2x2 workers quit the work only to; just profess, go on to have meeting in their home, switched faiths, lost faith & became agnostic or atheist? clergyproject.org/hypocrite; a person who pretends religious beliefs”
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Post by slowtosee on Nov 30, 2014 9:55:35 GMT -5
I'm not sure what Hindus thinks about cows. They have a really big cow killing festival, then eat or sell the meat, yet cows are scared to them? When you say 'cows' do you also mean bulls? Cows may well be sacred but what is the status of bulls (yep - that is homework!)? Does anyone know the answer? Holy cow, rational! Good question. I understand that Hindus do not differentiate between the sexes of cattle being taboo to kill or eat. Beef, from either a bull or cow or a steer (castrated bull) is not to be eaten. They don't actually worship cattle, and the " cows " wandering about are often neglected, having to survive by eating trash etc. I guess our "religious" practice of treating them very well , feeding them the best of food, getting them nice and fat as fast as we can, and then killing them and eating them is more understandable, but when one reads the Indian history of how the "cow" became sacred in their culture, I can see why it might make sense to them. When we were in Thailand we visited with people who had moved back to ",poverty" from Norway, because they could not feel confident that the food they ate in norway had not been tainted with " cow". Alvin
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Post by xna on Nov 30, 2014 9:57:04 GMT -5
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Post by slowtosee on Nov 30, 2014 9:58:01 GMT -5
Surprisingly, quite a number of "religous, " people are atheists. Can't remember the percentage for sure. But I think protestants was about 10 percent, catholic higher and jewish. Quite a bit higher. Trying to make "judgements " on religous or nonreligious people is not as simplistic as many suggest. All those "stupid" religous people or "stupid" atheists, might very well be the "same" as you. A Alvin I suspect there are many fewer if any hypocrite atheists vs hypocrite theists. How many if any, hypocrite professing 2x2, or hypocrite workers now? How many 2x2 workers quit the work only to; just profess, go on to have meeting in their home, switched faiths, lost faith & became agnostic or atheist? clergyproject.org/hypocrite; a person who pretends religious beliefs” Hi xna, I am not quite sure what you are saying. I think you imply that atheists are less hypocritical than theists? Alvin
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Post by xna on Nov 30, 2014 10:04:24 GMT -5
I suspect there are many fewer if any hypocrite atheists vs hypocrite theists. How many if any, hypocrite professing 2x2, or hypocrite workers now? How many 2x2 workers quit the work only to; just profess, go on to have meeting in their home, switched faiths, lost faith & became agnostic or atheist? clergyproject.org/hypocrite; a person who pretends religious beliefs” Hi xna, I am not quite sure what you are saying. I think you imply that atheists are less hypocritical than theists? Alvin I would think less than 1% of atheist are "religious hypocrites", while that figure would be higher for theists. Apart from the question of god, I suspect there is much less difference about being hypocritical on other subjects. Another way of saying this is; I suspect atheists live more authentic lives with regard to the god question.
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Post by slowtosee on Nov 30, 2014 10:20:30 GMT -5
Your suspicions and opinions could very well be correct. Not sure what criteria would all need to be used to get meaningful statistics, to ascertain anything factual. Question poll for myself -are you a hypocrite. Answer - yes. Alvin. Ps. It takes a big man to admit that one was wrong......... I am not a big man lol
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Post by Lee on Dec 7, 2014 6:51:36 GMT -5
will there be animals in heaven, what is do you believe?? Animals are in heaven every bit as much as we are: God is our creator, and God is the source of our intelligence.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 11:52:47 GMT -5
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 11, 2014 14:40:16 GMT -5
will there be animals in heaven, what is do you believe?? Animals are in heaven every bit as much as we are: God is our creator, and God is the source of our intelligence. For once I agree with you, Lee!
Animals are in heaven every bit as much as we are!
Since we won't be in "heaven" either,.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 11, 2014 14:52:12 GMT -5
Surprisingly, quite a number of "religous, " people are atheists. Can't remember the percentage for sure. But I think protestants was about 10 percent, catholic higher and jewish. Quite a bit higher. Trying to make "judgements " on religous or nonreligious people is not as simplistic as many suggest. All those "stupid" religous people or "stupid" atheists, might very well be the "same" as you. A Alvin I suspect there are many fewer if any hypocrite atheists vs hypocrite theists. How many if any, hypocrite professing 2x2, or hypocrite workers now? How many 2x2 workers quit the work only to; just profess, go on to have meeting in their home, switched faiths, lost faith & became agnostic or atheist? clergyproject.org/hypocrite; a person who pretends religious beliefs” That is a great link! Thanks, xna"!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 11, 2014 18:17:10 GMT -5
It's pretty crazy but all religions seem to think God requires a blood sacrifice. Probably because they all understood fairly quickly that losing a lot of blood ended in death so it became sacred to them?? If it was important to them then they likely thought it was sacred to the God they were trying to appease. The sacrifice of Jesus was a blood sacrifice and very ancient in it's religious roots. What I find interesting about the blood sacrifice of God/Jesus was it was also an attempt at ending the blood sacrifices that the Hebrew people took part in religiously. Quite a dramatic step actually when you think about it. There is something about the blood that is sacred. If you remember when the first Gentile cconverts under Paul were being tormented that they needed to be circumcised and follow the OT Jewish Law, that Paul put a stop to it by going to Jerusalem and met with the Apostles there.....and in the end a letter was hand carried back to those Gentile converts from the Apostles and one of the first things they were told to do instead of being circumcised was to avoid or do away with handling "bloods"! Well, reading in the OT, it says that any person handling another person's blood or an animal's blood is unclean until the evening, doesn't it? So the Gentile converts were being instructed on how to keep themselves clean, etc
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Post by xna on Dec 11, 2014 18:45:56 GMT -5
It's pretty crazy but all religions seem to think God requires a blood sacrifice. Probably because they all understood fairly quickly that losing a lot of blood ended in death so it became sacred to them?? If it was important to them then they likely thought it was sacred to the God they were trying to appease. The sacrifice of Jesus was a blood sacrifice and very ancient in it's religious roots. What I find interesting about the blood sacrifice of God/Jesus was it was also an attempt at ending the blood sacrifices that the Hebrew people took part in religiously. Quite a dramatic step actually when you think about it. There is something about the blood that is sacred. If you remember when the first Gentile cconverts under Paul were being tormented that they needed to be circumcised and follow the OT Jewish Law, that Paul put a stop to it by going to Jerusalem and met with the Apostles there.....and in the end a letter was hand carried back to those Gentile converts from the Apostles and one of the first things they were told to do instead of being circumcised was to avoid or do away with handling "bloods"! Well, reading in the OT, it says that any person handling another person's blood or an animal's blood is unclean until the evening, doesn't it? So the Gentile converts were being instructed on how to keep themselves clean, etc The Abrahamic religions are bloody, and have bloody holy books. I think this is one of the worst ways to die. 1 Samuel 18: 27-28 Therefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full measure to the king, that he might be the king’s son-in-law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter for a wife. And Saul saw and knew that the LORD was with David and that Michal, Saul’s daughter, loved him.
Thank god Christianity isn’t barbaric like those Muslims.
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Post by snow on Dec 11, 2014 20:15:21 GMT -5
It's pretty crazy but all religions seem to think God requires a blood sacrifice. Probably because they all understood fairly quickly that losing a lot of blood ended in death so it became sacred to them?? If it was important to them then they likely thought it was sacred to the God they were trying to appease. The sacrifice of Jesus was a blood sacrifice and very ancient in it's religious roots. What I find interesting about the blood sacrifice of God/Jesus was it was also an attempt at ending the blood sacrifices that the Hebrew people took part in religiously. Quite a dramatic step actually when you think about it. There is something about the blood that is sacred. If you remember when the first Gentile cconverts under Paul were being tormented that they needed to be circumcised and follow the OT Jewish Law, that Paul put a stop to it by going to Jerusalem and met with the Apostles there.....and in the end a letter was hand carried back to those Gentile converts from the Apostles and one of the first things they were told to do instead of being circumcised was to avoid or do away with handling "bloods"! Well, reading in the OT, it says that any person handling another person's blood or an animal's blood is unclean until the evening, doesn't it? So the Gentile converts were being instructed on how to keep themselves clean, etc Even Jesus himself ended up being a blood sacrifice.
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Post by xna on Dec 11, 2014 20:22:58 GMT -5
There is something about the blood that is sacred. If you remember when the first Gentile cconverts under Paul were being tormented that they needed to be circumcised and follow the OT Jewish Law, that Paul put a stop to it by going to Jerusalem and met with the Apostles there.....and in the end a letter was hand carried back to those Gentile converts from the Apostles and one of the first things they were told to do instead of being circumcised was to avoid or do away with handling "bloods"! Well, reading in the OT, it says that any person handling another person's blood or an animal's blood is unclean until the evening, doesn't it? So the Gentile converts were being instructed on how to keep themselves clean, etc Even Jesus himself ended up being a blood sacrifice. And then there is the river of human blood 5 ft deep, 200 miles long.... Revelation 14: 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 12, 2014 13:19:46 GMT -5
There is something about the blood that is sacred. If you remember when the first Gentile cconverts under Paul were being tormented that they needed to be circumcised and follow the OT Jewish Law, that Paul put a stop to it by going to Jerusalem and met with the Apostles there.....and in the end a letter was hand carried back to those Gentile converts from the Apostles and one of the first things they were told to do instead of being circumcised was to avoid or do away with handling "bloods"! Well, reading in the OT, it says that any person handling another person's blood or an animal's blood is unclean until the evening, doesn't it? So the Gentile converts were being instructed on how to keep themselves clean, etc The Abrahamic religions are bloody, and have bloody holy books. I think this is one of the worst ways to die. 1 Samuel 18: 27-28 Therefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full measure to the king, that he might be the king’s son-in-law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter for a wife. And Saul saw and knew that the LORD was with David and that Michal, Saul’s daughter, loved him.
Thank god Christianity isn’t barbaric like those Muslims. View AttachmentWell, seems you were reading that as the Davidites were slaying the enemy by cutting off their foreskins! I never have read it that way for I've never heard or read where removing foreskins would kill an adult man....sure can be bloody if the person who it is being done to isn't still....but then maybe that was the problem....Davidites had the enemy on the run and they rode their chariots right up beside them and as they ran, they easily got ahold of their privy member and chopped of the foreskin. And I guess, the reply might be that that is right and that doing it such a way would have likely ended in amputating several peni........Again, I've never heard or read of a man dying from losing his penis....there's been some celebrated ones in recent years but as far as I recall the attempt to reattach the penis may not have been successful other then to give the man the normal instrument for voiding his urine to where he wouldn't have to sit amongst his peers that were standing to pee and he had to squat! Sheesh!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 12, 2014 13:23:20 GMT -5
Even Jesus himself ended up being a blood sacrifice. And then there is the river of human blood 5 ft deep, 200 miles long.... Revelation 14: 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. Again, as heaven will retain the souls of saved folks and animals that are innocent, of course....then that means those who have angered the Lord and the FAther beyond salvation will have their lives ended and since blood seems to be the one thing it takes for mankind to live on the earth, we can be sure that that blood which is no longer needed will definitely be harvested somewhere. As God made all things, He certainly isn't going to be wasting the best parts of any of it, now is He?
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Post by xna on Dec 12, 2014 13:32:21 GMT -5
The Abrahamic religions are bloody, and have bloody holy books. I think this is one of the worst ways to die. 1 Samuel 18: 27-28 Therefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full measure to the king, that he might be the king’s son-in-law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter for a wife. And Saul saw and knew that the LORD was with David and that Michal, Saul’s daughter, loved him.
Thank god Christianity isn’t barbaric like those Muslims. Well, seems you were reading that as the Davidites were slaying the enemy by cutting off their foreskins! I never have read it that way for I've never heard or read where removing foreskins would kill an adult man....sure can be bloody if the person who it is being done to isn't still....but then maybe that was the problem....Davidites had the enemy on the run and they rode their chariots right up beside them and as they ran, they easily got ahold of their privy member and chopped of the foreskin. And I guess, the reply might be that that is right and that doing it such a way would have likely ended in amputating several peni........Again, I've never heard or read of a man dying from losing his penis....there's been some celebrated ones in recent years but as far as I recall the attempt to reattach the penis may not have been successful other then to give the man the normal instrument for voiding his urine to where he wouldn't have to sit amongst his peers that were standing to pee and he had to squat! Sheesh! I'm not sure of the cause of death. Either way it's a barbaric story. At least they didn't use a stones to circumize them twice, like we read in other parts.
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Post by xna on Dec 12, 2014 13:42:10 GMT -5
And then there is the river of human blood 5 ft deep, 200 miles long.... Revelation 14: 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. Again, as heaven will retain the souls of saved folks and animals that are innocent, of course....then that means those who have angered the Lord and the FAther beyond salvation will have their lives ended and since blood seems to be the one thing it takes for mankind to live on the earth, we can be sure that that blood which is no longer needed will definitely be harvested somewhere. As God made all things, He certainly isn't going to be wasting the best parts of any of it, now is He? So your position is god divides all animals into two groups; the innocent animals, and the non-innocent or guilty of a crimes animals?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 12, 2014 13:45:49 GMT -5
Well, seems you were reading that as the Davidites were slaying the enemy by cutting off their foreskins! I never have read it that way for I've never heard or read where removing foreskins would kill an adult man....sure can be bloody if the person who it is being done to isn't still....but then maybe that was the problem....Davidites had the enemy on the run and they rode their chariots right up beside them and as they ran, they easily got ahold of their privy member and chopped of the foreskin. And I guess, the reply might be that that is right and that doing it such a way would have likely ended in amputating several peni........Again, I've never heard or read of a man dying from losing his penis....there's been some celebrated ones in recent years but as far as I recall the attempt to reattach the penis may not have been successful other then to give the man the normal instrument for voiding his urine to where he wouldn't have to sit amongst his peers that were standing to pee and he had to squat! Sheesh! I'm not sure of the cause of death. Either way it's a barbaric story. At least they didn't use a stones to circumize them twice, like we read in other parts. XNA! Wartime is one of the worst times in people's time. They do not treat their enemies like they are of the human race.....this is true of ALL war times! There have betimes when there have been more inhumane atrocities that people within some wars could hardly like but were forced to see it, and some to have to participate in it to some minor degree, i.e. A friend of our family was a prisoner during the Holocaust War horrors. Guess what his torture was! Yes, indeed he had to drive a vehicle full of the Jewish prisoners to those horror chambers, to be tortured and then put to death. He said that most of them, by the time he was there to help put them into the back of his truck, were already nothing much more then skin and bones and naked as plucked bluejays....women, men and children....no respecters of age or sex amongst those horrible soldiers who worked those death camps. This is just one tiny example of what he told us....and what I'm trying to get across to you! I strongly suspect David had his army kill the enemy before they had a chance to get away or revamp their defense. The "act" of taking their foreskin was just a way of "c ounting" the number of soldiers they had killed of their enemy's. Other war lords would often hack a hand off and take it back to count to see how many soldiers were killed, etc. So the foreskins were significant in that Jews believed in circumcision and the Gentile nations did not and this was the Jews way of telling for sure not only how many of the enemy they had killed but how many that were really Gentiles and not some escaped Jews, etc I don't think it is worse then any other war story.....
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 12, 2014 13:47:47 GMT -5
Again, as heaven will retain the souls of saved folks and animals that are innocent, of course....then that means those who have angered the Lord and the FAther beyond salvation will have their lives ended and since blood seems to be the one thing it takes for mankind to live on the earth, we can be sure that that blood which is no longer needed will definitely be harvested somewhere. As God made all things, He certainly isn't going to be wasting the best parts of any of it, now is He? So your position is god divides all animals into two groups; the innocent animals, and the non-innocent or guilty of a crimes animals? Seems either you're taking it wrong or I made it wrong...I am not saying there are any animals that would qualify in a negative manner......only mankind can do that and does it all by himself!
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Post by xna on Dec 12, 2014 14:23:46 GMT -5
So your position is god divides all animals into two groups; the innocent animals, and the non-innocent or guilty of a crimes animals? Seems either you're taking it wrong or I made it wrong...I am not saying there are any animals that would qualify in a negative manner......only mankind can do that and does it all by himself! ~ Sharingtheriches Q1. We read there are animals in heaven. Do you think there are also animals in hell? *Q2. We also read plants were in heaven BEFORE they were on earth. Do you think plants have souls? * Genesis 2:4-5 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew * Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: 2.29 "banyan tree has a soul..." www.vedabase.com/en/bg/2/29
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