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Post by What Hat on Feb 10, 2015 14:46:07 GMT -5
Thank you for the correction.
Strange though, when our daughter read that series she found it and brought it to our attention. I have no explanation. There are 5 more Anne books, and another series called "Emily" so I can't rule it out entirely. However, none of the Montgomery books on gutenberg.org contain the phrase "black stockings".
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Post by What Hat on Feb 10, 2015 16:54:09 GMT -5
Hi Dennis. I have heard this before, from a worker, but it's a myth. Our daughters were avid fans of the books, and my wife read the 5 volume diaries of Lucy Maud Montgomery. (These were a best seller here). No mention of "black stockings". Just to be sure I ran a search on the text. It's available on this page. www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/45/pg45.txtNow that I think of it, one of our daughters played "Anne" in a school production, and even dyed her hair red, AND went to convention with it that way. Might be interesting to start a thread on friend and worker legends, as I've heard a number over the years. I'm sure some are true. For example, there was the relative of Queen Victoria who professed but could not attend meeting. Are you talking about Professing Princess Victoria (1868-1935)? Princess VICTORIA Great Aunt of Queen Elizabeth II mother of Prince Charles? If you were... It's no myth at all but a historical documents fact.2x2friendsworkers.proboards.com/thread/9/princess-victoria-1868-1935?page=1&scrollTo=758You might enjoy this slide show - www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGjuQY-Xqwc
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 8, 2015 21:02:39 GMT -5
New Items for March, 2015Andrew Abernethy - What is the Way of God? Bird City, Kansas Convention 2014-15 Worldwide Annual Meeting List (Conventions) 1981 October 29, page 8 - Impartial Reporter When “the Dippers” had Their First Baptisms in Ballycassidy River 1933 July - Impartial Reporter Brookeborough, N. Ireland Convention 1916 October 7 - Fermanagh Herald Wife who Joined the “Cooneyites" - Application in Dublin Courts Irvine's comments in letters re 3-day Visit from John Hardie & Fred Quick in Jerusalem: Irvine's Letter to Edwards - Dec 8, 1936 Irvine's letter to John Hardie - Feb 7, 1937: No honest man who knows the facts can ever doubt that the Testimony was my work. No William, no Testimony, or 7 churches. Foolish people and false apostles of Ephesus thought it was presumption, my going around as I did. Who else could have done it? And who else could have dealt with all the various good and bad who were being gathered into the net?John Hardie's reply to John Hardie - Nov 2, 1937 Irvine's Letter to John Hardie - December 4, 1937
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 9, 2015 1:01:49 GMT -5
New Items for March, 2015Andrew Abernethy - What is the Way of God? Bird City, Kansas Convention 2014-15 Worldwide Annual Meeting List (Conventions) 1981 October 29, page 8 - Impartial Reporter When “the Dippers” had Their First Baptisms in Ballycassidy River 1933 July - Impartial Reporter Brookeborough, N. Ireland Convention 1916 October 7 - Fermanagh Herald Wife who Joined the “Cooneyites" - Application in Dublin Courts Irvine's comments in letters re 3-day Visit from John Hardie & Fred Quick in Jerusalem: Irvine's Letter to Edwards - Dec 8, 1936 Irvine's letter to John Hardie - Feb 7, 1937: No honest man who knows the facts can ever doubt that the Testimony was my work. No William, no Testimony, or 7 churches. Foolish people and false apostles of Ephesus thought it was presumption, my going around as I did. Who else could have done it? And who else could have dealt with all the various good and bad who were being gathered into the net?John Hardie's reply to John Hardie - Nov 2, 1937 Irvine's Letter to John Hardie - December 4, 1937 Thanks for those new articles, Cherie.
One in particular interested me, Suspicious Death of Alfred Carson Cooney - Edward Cooney's Brother - Ruled a Suicide
It was an interesting article, but I wonder just how it would be possible a person can cut their own neck from "ear to ear!"
You could get across the first side but I think you'd be dead before you could make it across the other!
Is there any sleuths here that can figure that out?
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 10, 2015 11:05:37 GMT -5
Not sure if the two young lady pilgrims were Faith Mission or Sister Workers...anyway, its rather amusing.
Fermanagh Times 5 September 1901 A Derrygonnelly Ghost
A few nights ago Mr. Wm. Ovens, draper, accompanied by Mr. R. Fallis (Dublin), attended an evangelistic meeting carried on by two young lady pilgrims in the Evangelic Hall in this town. Messrs. Ovens and Fallis, it seems were like those attending prayer meeting in “Uncle Tom’s Cabin,” piously allured by the ardour of hymn-singing etc., til a very late hour (midnight), and when emerging from the Hall they were wonderfully startled by hearing the most unearthly cries and lamentations, and as these became more terrific, both gentlemen were intrepidly resolved to solve, if possible, the whereabouts of the mysterious phantom, and when, as they imagined, following the special crying and squalling through the streets, Mr. Ovens observed something in the shape of a child lying at the door of one of our most respected spirit merchants. Then followed a crash – Mr. Ovens states – resembling the sudden collapse of a house, the unearthly cry still kept up, when Mr. Ovens located the squalling to or near to the object he had seen at the door referred to. So with Mr. Fallis he returned, and while stooping over this object was certain it was a small child, but when stretching out his hand the object suddenly parted into two balls and rolled swiftly away and the crying ceased. The affair has caused great fear among timid folk, and almost everyone is asking “Have you seen Ovens’s ghost?” – Correspondent. NOTE: The wailing creature on the doorstep was probably two cats.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Mar 14, 2015 1:29:12 GMT -5
Just a little aside here. In the text "Anne of Green Gables" the author refers to the "black stockings." Here it is Dennis; -->> Click here!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 2:15:45 GMT -5
Can you or anyone provide the names of the "others there then" you quoted? And where may I read this statement in a document? Thanx, Cherie That's Cute, I like that.
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Post by maryhig on Mar 14, 2015 3:52:42 GMT -5
Hi Dennis. I have heard this before, from a worker, but it's a myth. Our daughters were avid fans of the books, and my wife read the 5 volume diaries of Lucy Maud Montgomery. (These were a best seller here). No mention of "black stockings". Just to be sure I ran a search on the text. It's available on this page. www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/45/pg45.txtNow that I think of it, one of our daughters played "Anne" in a school production, and even dyed her hair red, AND went to convention with it that way. Might be interesting to start a thread on friend and worker legends, as I've heard a number over the years. I'm sure some are true. For example, there was the relative of Queen Victoria who professed but could not attend meeting. Are you talking about Professing Princess Victoria (1868-1935)? Princess VICTORIA Great Aunt of Queen Elizabeth II mother of Prince Charles? If you were... It's no myth at all but a historical documents fact.2x2friendsworkers.proboards.com/thread/9/princess-victoria-1868-1935?page=1&scrollTo=758I read about princess Victoria and Daisy on the internet a couple of years ago after my Mum told me about them. Didn't daisy have a good heart, and being a maid was very brave! You've probably all read it before, but I liked this part , especially the bit about Matthew 9:5 this is exactly what I believe too:- He told us some very interesting things about the Royal Family. He had 15 letters, in Princess Victoria's handwriting, to a sister worker, Maggie Patton. Victoria Windsor was a daughter of King Edward and Queen Alexandra and a favorite sister of King George V. He had several newspaper clippings of her and one with her riding horseback with her brother, King George V in 1913. When she died in 1935, the newspaper said she was a deeply religious person and something to the effect that she lived a separated life. She never married. Maggie Patton had written to her after a saint girl, Daisy Bassett, had visited a lot with her in the palace where she worked. She visited with her concerning the way of God. One can sense by the letters, she was given a real revelation of God's Way - - for example, in one letter in 1918, she wrote of Matthew 9:5 where the scribes misunderstood Jesus and He said, “For whether is easier to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee, or to say arise and walk.” “We like to know that our sins are forgiven, but have to begin to walk and it is only as we are able to walk, that there is proof that we are forgiven. You will be glad to know that I am going to an Irish Convention. I am so looking forward to it. Yours in Him.” It was thrilling to see this in her own hand: “V.W.,” writing and just ordinary writing like the rest of us commoners. She never did get out to a convention. There was much opposition and they even considered her somewhat demented. Lord Stamfordam, who was in charge of the palace said the next thing after the war was won was to stamp out this “stable religion” - - as he called it. She was prevented from getting to convention while alive, but a time came when no one could prevent her from attending an Eternal Convention if God sees fit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 6:55:32 GMT -5
You know, I have done a lot of research too, and I can show that Irvine invented NOTHING of what we enjoy today. ... For what it's worth.
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 14, 2015 9:02:35 GMT -5
"No honest man who knows the facts can ever doubt that the Testimony was my work. No William, no Testimony, or 7 churches."
Bert, according to this statement--you're not an honest man, or you havent looked at the facts very closely.
The church you attend today evolved from what Irvine started.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 9:18:29 GMT -5
Your assertion "Irvine invented your church" hasn't stood up to scrutiny. I have looked at:
Ministry Home service Works Doctrine
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Post by fred on Mar 14, 2015 21:36:14 GMT -5
Your assertion "Irvine invented your church" hasn't stood up to scrutiny. I have looked at: Ministry Home service Works Doctrine Ah, Bert, sneaky, sneaky. You've done the old strawman again, you flog him to death, don't you. No one has suggested that Irvine founded/invented/formed these things. What we say is that Irvine founded/formed the physical group of people who fellowshipped together and today is known as f&w etc, etc. Once we have agreement there we might then be able to look at how his doctrine differed/agreed with mainstream and how much it accurately reflected the early church teachings. We might also be able to look at any doctrines/teachings that were espoused by the f&w at the turn of the century and in the early 1900's to see if there has been any change compared to today.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 22:26:37 GMT -5
Ah, Fred, sneaky This argument about "founders" long predates Saint Paul. It's the classic Strawman Argument, for some think of the "who" and others love the "what."
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Mar 14, 2015 23:07:07 GMT -5
"No honest man who knows the facts can ever doubt that the Testimony was my work. No William, no Testimony, or 7 churches." What "seven churches" is he talking about and what do they have to do with the "Testimony"? What "work" does he mean? What work was there with "seven churches" or the "Testimony" that was 100% Irvine's and his alone?
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Post by Lee on Mar 15, 2015 0:45:53 GMT -5
Modern people aren't particularly concerned about the founders of the different sects in our age because modern people, the age 2x2ism was conceived, are inured to the foundation of religion in general, Revelation. However, the Jews knew what Revelation was, as their culture was dependent upon it. They knew what they were reckoning with when they were all in a fuss about the theological orthodoxy of JC and the signs that accompanied him: Revelation.
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Post by fred on Mar 15, 2015 1:06:41 GMT -5
Ah, Fred, sneaky This argument about "founders" long predates Saint Paul. It's the classic Strawman Argument, for some think of the "who" and others love the "what." Bah and humbug! We're all pretty clear about the "who, which, what, whose and whom". Well, at least the "who" and the "what" combination. And then someone comes along with great pretence and changes the "what" under discussion to try and create confusion. I will say it again, we are clear about the "who and what", the facts are undeniable.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 3:12:59 GMT -5
May I ask, do you believe "Paul started Christianity"? Was Jesus the founder of those churches throughout the Roman Empire, or was Paul?
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Post by fred on Mar 15, 2015 3:58:10 GMT -5
May I ask, do you believe "Paul started Christianity"? You certainly may ask that question but I will decline to answer as it is an attempt to divert from what is under discussion. What was William Irvine's role in the foundation of the f&w fellowship group? Focus Bert, focus.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 6:12:12 GMT -5
This is typical Often you will get TMB'ers who will say "You answer first" and then don't answer after me.
There are two schools of thought on Irvine: One is that he was one of the early preachers of our modern church. The second is that he (or his later followers) claimed the title of founder, and try to get away with it in a church which rejects personal history.
As an aside, there's lots of "research" over the past generation on Jesus. Mostly dismissive of the claims He made and the things He is claimed to have done. It was noted that these theories became the basis of a later generations of books on Jesus. At last count there was something like 4000 new titles which embraced these counter views.
And lots of theology students don't really delve too deeply into the source material for Jesus.
Something like this could happen with the Irvine followers.
So, who do YOU think established Christianity in the Roman Empire?
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Post by fred on Mar 15, 2015 7:20:57 GMT -5
This is typical Often you will get TMB'ers who will say "You answer first" and then don't answer after me. There are two schools of thought on Irvine: One is that he was one of the early preachers of our modern church. The second is that he (or his later followers) claimed the title of founder, and try to get away with it in a church which rejects personal history. And there you have it, the history of our church according to St Bert. As my ol' granddaddy used to say "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." If you wish to ignore the primary evidence available around the early days of our church that is your choice. Many friends and workers would disagree with you.
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Post by fred on Mar 15, 2015 7:41:19 GMT -5
This is typical Often you will get TMB'ers who will say "You answer first" and then don't answer after me. Bert, I did take you for an intelligent man but this twisting defies belief. Your question was not germane to the discussion so I perceived it to be a diversion tactic, thus I declined to answer it. In a discussion about the quality of my furnishings and someone asks if the sky is blue I would probably blink twice and move back to topic. So then if you wish to discuss Paul's role in early Christianity you should probably start a new thresd.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 8:02:23 GMT -5
Nathan, I am sorry but there's about 4,000 books out there, heavily "researched" which "prove" that it was Paul who established Christianity. To most of these books Jesus was little more than a myth.
There... I just became a horse who was made to drink.
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 15, 2015 8:02:29 GMT -5
"No honest man who knows the facts can ever doubt that the Testimony was my work. No William, no Testimony, or 7 churches." What "seven churches" is he talking about and what do they have to do with the "Testimony"? What "work" does he mean? What work was there with "seven churches" or the "Testimony" that was 100% Irvine's and his alone? RE 7 churches, see: www.tellingthetruth.info/founder_book/21wmibook.php
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Post by snow on Mar 15, 2015 11:44:50 GMT -5
This is typical Often you will get TMB'ers who will say "You answer first" and then don't answer after me. There are two schools of thought on Irvine: One is that he was one of the early preachers of our modern church. The second is that he (or his later followers) claimed the title of founder, and try to get away with it in a church which rejects personal history. As an aside, there's lots of "research" over the past generation on Jesus. Mostly dismissive of the claims He made and the things He is claimed to have done. It was noted that these theories became the basis of a later generations of books on Jesus. At last count there was something like 4000 new titles which embraced these counter views. And lots of theology students don't really delve too deeply into the source material for Jesus. Something like this could happen with the Irvine followers. So, who do YOU think established Christianity in the Roman Empire? Paul. We have nothing written by Jesus.
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Post by maryhig on Mar 15, 2015 13:32:49 GMT -5
Nathan, I am sorry but there's about 4,000 books out there, heavily "researched" which "prove" that it was Paul who established Christianity. To most of these books Jesus was little more than a myth. There... I just became a horse who was made to drink. The only way Paul was able to do anything is because Christ was in his heart. Jesus is the cornerstone not Paul, without Christ in his heart, Paul could do nothing. Whatever 4000 books say! Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
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Post by fred on Mar 15, 2015 16:45:06 GMT -5
Nathan, I am sorry but there's about 4,000 books out there, heavily "researched" which "prove" that it was Paul who established Christianity. To most of these books Jesus was little more than a myth. There... I just became a horse who was made to drink. A horse?? ..... nah, just an old nag.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 17:32:22 GMT -5
I was walking through the CBD and here's this kid flogging an anarchist Marxist-Leninist Trotsky newspaper. He ranted on about the "bias" of the "Capitalist press" so I asked him, "Is YOUR paper biased?" And he replied, "No, we just TELL THE TRUTH!" I had to laugh - it reminded me of you guys.
So I am learning to run when people start ranting they are 'TELLING THE TRUTH'
Repeat - in debates people generally TELL THE TRUTH. Yet they come up with wildly different conclusions.
In our schools students learn that any given statement can be classified either as a factual matter, based on evidence or observation, or a subjective belief. But this can lead to a false dichotomy, since not all facts are strictly provable, and opinions can be formed from evidence and observation. The proper boundaries of these terms have been the subject of a long debate amongst philosophers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 18:37:27 GMT -5
An example of TELLING THE TRUTH about ISIS in Syria and Iraq:
Truth 1. ISIS has "lost momentum" suffered heavy casualties lost support lost morale lost territory in Kobane, northern Iraq and soon, Tikrit
Truth 2. ISIS has increased its territory to 30% of Syria since the bombing campaign has moved to within 60km of Baghdad last week is supported by high morale is gaining new recruits every day
WHO IS TELLING THE TRUTH?
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